Anthology Project

I thought they would consider both sides. But it would probably be easier to have a story chosen out of self assignment - considering the fact that you aren't writing with a guideline stuck in your head. I mean a story where you are practicing choruses (and most likely over using them) isn't going to be as good as a story you wrote and maybe added a few choruses to more carefully.

It does not matter which side you submit to guys. Really. We have strong advocates in the Moderators reading everything that hits their own side of the shop. When they nominate something and send it up, then it gets looked at by people who could give a shit which side of the workshop it came from (like Dennis) and ultimately by people who probably don't even know that the workshop has divisions (like our literary agent).

It all stands on the strength of the story.

[QUOTE=anxious phoenix]Speaking of the project, as long as we got your ear, Vig...

What's the status? There was a ton of stories going into the graduated bin in January, and now there's only been a few in the past few months.
[/QUOTE]

One thing to understand is that we did several months of intensive back-and-forths in 2004. This was all done under the radar, so to speak. We thought we had a chance to get an Anthology together for 2005, but only if we cracked the whip without engaging in publicity and drawing new contributions. So we started working with the authors of some of the most promising stories behind the lines.

Well, it just didn't come together fast enough. We didn't have all of the logistics worked out perfectly, and the publishing industry requires pretty good lead time. It sometimes takes as much as eighteen months to get something to press. So, the only realistic option was to postpone the first Anthology release till 2006, then go ahead and go public with the project and get more people involved as we made the 2005 changes and upgrades to the site.

What you saw in the exciting month of January was every story that had been nominated and worked on hard, for months, in 2004, suddenly get propagated to a special new location on the site in a matter of hours. It's natural that there's a slowdown now as the moderators evaluate new submissions on a case-by-case basis.

I promise more energy and action on this very soon. Stay tuned.

Oh, and easy with my ear. Rub and pet but don't pull. ;)

if it all does come together and there is a book and it gets some short story in playboy in advance to help promote it i'll volunteer to pose nude for their centerfold

So it just has to be a good story, it graduates, then there's intensive back and forth until it's a great story, and if it reaches that height, fame and fortune for the author, I'm sure.

Sounds like an awesome deal. I think I will unleash my demons on the workshop ASAP.

Good luck people. And Playboy centerfolds are overrated. They can only take two, three loads, tops, before the ink starts to run.

Fred V.

it wasn't in relation to this project but i think someones already siggested that as a term for fans in some other thread, anyway, i just watched "Trekkies" and "Trekkies 2" today, now [i]those[/i] people are weird !!

[QUOTE=karbunkle]it wasn't in relation to this project but i think someones already siggested that as a term for fans in some other thread, anyway, i just watched "Trekkies" and "Trekkies 2" today, now [i]those[/i] people are weird !![/QUOTE]
Detatched climbed a rock where Captain Kirk fought a lizard. It's cool like Fonzie man.

Sweet.

Great post, Mark. And thanks for updating everyone in my absence from this thread.

For the past few months, I've been very focused on improving our sites numbers and increasing exposure on the Writer's Workshop in general. But now, as we near the middle part of the year and Chuck continues his tour, I want to really start making a go at putting the Workshop and the Anthology at the forefront of the site. That means you'll be seeing it mentioned and plugged in a lot of my front page news updates.

You'll also be seeing exclusives, such as an upcoming interview Alex Cassun and I are conducting with Will Christopher Baer about his trials and tribulations working in Hollywood as a spec screenwriter for over a year. How he even wrote a doomed episode of [b][i]Six Feet Under[/i][/b] that was deemed too controversial by the producers. So stay tuned for big updates in the ScriptWorkshop too.

In the meantime, I urge all of you, if you were waiting for any reason, to drop any hesitation and begin unleashing your big guns. Your best stories. And your best revisions. The Graduated storylist is about to heat up like a Cummings 444 engine block. Right now, only 16 stories are represented on that list by a 'P' rating, making them safe for Public viewing. Don't lose site of how important that 'P' rating can be for you. It gets you the option of being seen by a MUCH larger audience, as well as being promoted on the front page.

So be aware of what status your story is in always. And look forward to the days that come. Things are going to start evolving here soon, hopefully at a quicker rate.

*screams

Don't scare me like that! We need good content first. Then a publisher. Then a release date. THEN you can pre-order the book! :)

[QUOTE=Dennis]Great post, Mark. And thanks for updating everyone in my absence from this thread.

For the past few months, I've been very focused on improving our sites numbers and increasing exposure on the Writer's Workshop in general. But now, as we near the middle part of the year and Chuck continues his tour, I want to really start making a go at putting the Workshop and the Anthology at the forefront of the site. That means you'll be seeing it mentioned and plugged in a lot of my front page news updates.

You'll also be seeing exclusives, such as an upcoming interview Alex Cassun and I are conducting with Will Christopher Baer about his trials and tribulations working in Hollywood as a spec screenwriter for over a year. How he even wrote a doomed episode of [b][i]Six Feet Under[/i][/b] that was deemed too controversial by the producers. So stay tuned for big updates in the ScriptWorkshop too.

In the meantime, I urge all of you, if you were waiting for any reason, to drop any hesitation and begin unleashing your big guns. Your best stories. And your best revisions. The Graduated storylist is about to heat up like a Cummings 444 engine block. Right now, only 16 stories are represented on that list by a 'P' rating, making them safe for Public viewing. Don't lose site of how important that 'P' rating can be for you. It gets you the option of being seen by a MUCH larger audience, as well as being promoted on the front page.

So be aware of what status your story is in always. And look forward to the days that come. Things are going to start evolving here soon, hopefully at a quicker rate.[/QUOTE]
Thank you thank you.. Me butterflies are burning. I've been working on two rewrites.

The interview with Baer sounds delicious. WAs that episode actually shot or thrown under the rug? I guess I have to wait for the interview--no?

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]Dennis is personally choosing three stories every week to promote. Any story that is both [color=cyan]Graduated[/color] by the mods and [color=cyan]Permissioned[/color] by the author is game to be picked.

[color=cyan]Note: If you've hit that weird bug where you had to change your privacy setting to the more restrictive 'W' setting to get your submission to go through, then make sure when your story graduates that you promptly change it to a 'P' for promotional status. 'W' stories are equally eligible for Anthology selection but won't be picked for public reading on the site.[/color]

The three weekly top picks are both linked on the [color=cyan]Front Page[/color] and visible in the [color=cyan]Graduation List[/color] and readable even for unregistered guests on the site. And this site gets massive daily traffic. Are some of those hits from people in the publishing business? You bet.

All Graduated Stories will have some chance of inclusion in the upcoming [color=cyan]2006 Writer's Cult Anthology.[/color]

Look for some new stories to start graduating soon.

Keep working your own stories and submitting [color=red]'R'[/color]evisions. Keep your best material in front of us at all times.

VP[/QUOTE]OK, wait, P is for Permissioned, what does "W" stand for then? Withheld? Withdrawn? Withnail and I? I'm still confused about the W, it's like some bad flashback to those agrresive bloakc capital letters that used to sponsor Sesame Street.

[QUOTE=snuffy]But, I want my Anthology Project NOWWWWWWWWW.
[/QUOTE]
You haven't even finished your brussel sprouts, mister.

[QUOTE=Dennis]Yeah, the episode he wrote was never filmed.

And the "W" means Workshop participants only (Premium Members) can only see those stories.

"P"s can be seen by Basic Members.

And "P"s that are on the front page can be seen by anyone. Even non-members and people logged out.[/QUOTE]
See, I was thinking workshop and then that led me to believe that P had something to do with self-assignment, the "W" designating Chuck's workshop in particular.

This is why I never find the pirate treasure...

Just curious about this W vs P thing, and the anthology in general:

1 - Let's say someone submits a story and makes it public in the hopes of getting into the anthology. Suppose the story graduates, but doesn't get in. How might this impact any attempts to get the story published elsewhere? I'm asking because I have no idea how the publishing world really works, it just seems to me that making a story publicly available would cause others considering your story to turn it down, no?

2 - Along the same lines, does submission/consideration for the Anthology require that we not submit the story elsewhere? What are the plans for the legalities here? While I hate to make a fuss about this sort of thing, I'm trying to take this seriously and would appreciate it if this were more clearly stated. I haven't really considered submitting anything elsewhere yet, I just want to know what my options are.

I hope these questions don't sound cocky, I have no expectations of inclusion (only aspirations). I have a bit of a masochistic fascination with copyright law even though I understand very little of it. These questions seem like grey areas to me, perhaps someone could clear them up?

Thanks for the detailed reply VP.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]It was concerns of this sort that I had in mind when I thought up the Privacy Features. In fact, there was a thread going at the time that I think [i]you[/i] started jase, soliciting members to join you in a much smaller online workshop for longer submissions. One point of appeal for your smaller workshop of six or seven committed people was the privacy issue. And I said to myself, Self, why can't we offer the very same privacy benefit right here at The Cult? Let people have some control over how many eyes can see their workshop submissions. So I thought up our current privacy features and how they should work to the tiniest detail, and Kareem wrote the code for it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, my workshop is still running. We're down to five now, and I'm mired in the worst writers block I've experienced when it comes to the novel. If it weren't for the group and the sense of obligation that comes with getting to know someone's work over the course of several months, I would have quit already.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]But you can look into what any particular publisher or contest expects. If those expectations seem stringent for not publishing your story elsewhere, then keep the 'Workshop Only' status on your story if you workshop it here.[/QUOTE]

Since I haven't been shopping anything around, any experience you (or anyone reading this for that matter) have had on this topic would be valuable in making the judgment call.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]Absolutely not. We are open to acquiring second serial rights for the Anthology. We would actually see it as a boost to reprint a story that's seen it's first light somewhere else. It's a mark of credibility for that story that a different set of editors said yes to it. Many anthologies [i]only[/i] collect and republish stories that have first hit press somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Good points.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]Most publications that want to see your story [i]first[/i] and request "no simultaneous submissions," if and when they [i]do[/i] publish your story, they'll buy First North American Serial Rights from you. That means copyright reverts to the author and the work can later be anthologized without any need for permission from its first publisher.

If they want "all rights" to your work, reducing you to "work for hire" status, tell them to fuck off. Never give up all rights to your own written work.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tips!

[QUOTE=jase]
Since I haven't been shopping anything around, any experience you (or anyone reading this for that matter) have had on this topic would be valuable in making the judgment call.
[/QUOTE]

Chris Baer advises you forget the no simultaneous submissions given how long it takes most mags to reply to your story anyway. If you do happen to get accepted, let the others know with a polite letter.

As far as first rights go, that is open to interpretation but I can't think any serious publication would consider an online workshop as being "previously published." But, you never know, the literary world can be both anal and relaxed.

The fact is you're going to be sending out 5 or so copies of a story at a time. Then, by and large, you'll wait 3-6 months for a response, which will most likely be a rejection letter. so, you'll send the story out to 5 more, and get 5 more rejections (most likely) in 3 to 6 months. There goes half a year or a year right there... You do the math.

And wait till you send a novel to an agent or publsihing house, then you can expect to wait even longer! I still have an editor promising to read my novel I sent his company back in June of 2004!

Keep writing, polish it, send it out, forget about it and write something new. Repeat until you get some publishing credits or an agent.

I'd ask Karen (Luddy) if I were you as well as she has actually published several novels.

[QUOTE=jase]Thanks again VP and you too Parkaboy.

I've already been advised to change my title by a few non-cult reviewers, so the title thing works well for me.

As for the advice from Baer, that's kind of what I expected - the lag in response - do people really expect me to wait between submissions? I doubt it. Fuck 'em if they do.[/QUOTE]
The truth is, they're going to look at your story quickly (most of the mags anyway) and decide in the first page or so if they want to read on. Some read everything they get thouroughly, others do not. The whole affair is frustrating andenervating, I try and look it as a business proposition once all the creative work is done. Give you some perspective and needed distance.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]The truth is, they're going to look at your story quickly (most of the mags anyway) and decide in the first page or so if they want to read on. Some read everything they get thouroughly, others do not. The whole affair is frustrating andenervating, I try and look it as a business proposition once all the creative work is done. Give you some perspective and needed distance.[/QUOTE]

The waiting can be horrific. In publishing terms, my experience has been when they say one week they mean one month. That is simply because these people have no time to read. And Parkaboy does not lie. More often than not the first person who reads your stuff is going to be an associate editor--right out of grad school and still a slave to what they were MFA programmed to think of as "good." If the first few pages get past them, and then sent to an editor, you'll get a first page read, at most, before they know if they want it or not. If the editor wants it, then they have to clear it with the sales department to see if it can be sold. This seemingly two day process takes anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Average. Short story journals published by universities are staffed by students and won't even open submissions outside the school year.

Keep telling yourself that no news is no news--and keep writing. I sometimes believe that Karma made me a writer just to force me to learn now to patient. So far? Those lessons aren't going so well.

[QUOTE=Luddy Dunn]
Keep telling yourself that no news is no news--and keep writing. I sometimes believe that Karma made me a writer just to force me to learn now to patient. So far? Those lessons aren't going so well.[/QUOTE]If patience is the lesson, I'm not learning to well either.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]Once a story is graduated can the author still make rewrites on that draft? Will the rewrite be then an ungraduated story?
[/QUOTE]

Yes and yes. The revision will enter as an ungraduated story. The previous version will still appear in the grad list until the new one is graduated in its place.

[off topic]That's Hoagie and he's not mine. If you look closely, Hoagie is tugging playfully at the camera strap, wanting to claim the digital camera taking his picture as his own chew toy. No, that's not a cigar. Hoagie does not smoke.[/off topic]

[size=4]Review! Revise! Submit! :D [/size]