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the very last page
Alright, I just got done with Invisible Monsters for the forth time. And after reading the last page over and over, I'm convinced that Brandy/Shane died. It says the character is gone, two or three times.
It says, And Shane is gone, or something like that.
The line "I love Brandy Alexander..." blah blah blah
jump to the very last line : And that's enough.
I got the feeling that Shane died.
Am I wrong or right
Free signature!
I'm pretty sure that he/she died too. I'm also re-reading this book for the third time, total. I love how I can keep reading these books and keep enjoying them.
XChuck: Good call
Wes: Most approachable? I know this thread isn't about you or me, and I'm not trying to open a big fat can of worms, and I know I'm not your father, but people like you drive new visitors away more than you think. No need to be mean.
I Like to Write Columns About Stuff
[url]http://www.christrew.com[/url]
[url]http://www.studio8.net[/url]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XChuck [/i]
[B]Wes, come on. If you do't like the thread, don't post in it.
Night: Shane probebly did die. [/B][/QUOTE]
who said i didnt like it?
dont presume anything of me you prat.
my opinion: I DONT THINK IT MATTERS WETHER HE/SHE DIED
okay?
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penuckle [/i]
[B]I'm pretty sure that he/she died too. I'm also re-reading this book for the third time, total. I love how I can keep reading these books and keep enjoying them.
XChuck: Good call
Wes: Most approachable? I know this thread isn't about you or me, and I'm not trying to open a big fat can of worms, and I know I'm not your father, but people like you drive new visitors away more than you think. No need to be mean. [/B][/QUOTE]
1. youve not been here for long.
if my attitude IS in fact worse. its only been lately.
2. does it matter?
does this openly sound insulting?
im just stating my opinion.
how about you let me post my opinion.
3. driving people away.
yes, im sure i am, with the 10,000 members we have gathered this year. im doing SO much to ruin the cult. dennis is going to have me decapitated. watch and see.
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penuckle [/i]
[B]....I'm not trying to open a big fat can of worms.... [/B][/QUOTE]
oh, but you have by saying that.
before you reference me,
think before you post in future
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
I love how I just had a question and Wes starts laying down these lame as excuses of why he is a dick. In light of expressing our opinions, heres mine:
1. You were bored and you felt like using your right to a shitty attitude.
2. Yea, it does matter. Thats why I bought and read the book. Thats why I bothered to read it 4 times over. Thats why I asked the question.
3. Again, you're a dick. Go away.
Shane died, I agee. Thanks guys.
Free signature!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NightMonkie [/i]
[B]I love how I just had a question and Wes starts laying down these lame as excuses of why he is a dick. In light of expressing our opinions, heres mine:
1. You were bored and you felt like using your right to a shitty attitude.
2. Yea, it does matter. Thats why I bought and read the book. Thats why I bothered to read it 4 times over. Thats why I asked the question.
3. Again, you're a dick. Go away.
Shane died, I agee. Thanks guys. [/B][/QUOTE]
thankyou for being so mature. now,...
the DOES IT MATTER? mini essay:
does it matter?
in asking this- naturally im leaning toward 'no'
this is all in my succinct delivery of the Q.
i say 'no' because i think considering the over-lying moral of invisble monsters, it doesnt make a difference who lives and who dies. its about sacrifice yes- but [b]does it really matter[/b] to have closure on every single issue in a piece of writing?
i love how i express my opinion
and some random person tries to write me off with a 4 point attack.
maturity obviously sits deep within your personality.
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
The entire point of this thread was just to ask a question. The maturity within sits right next to something else, manners. If you really have to explain yourself every time you act like an ass, why bother? Does it matter?
Free signature!
did you think for a second- im explaining myself in defense of your accusation that i was acting like as ass.
which i continue to vehemently defend myself.
wow. youre thread is so great.
i should take a step back.
with the 3 people other than myself responding.
ive made a mistake.
obviously wandered into a place far far far above me.
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
i am pretty sure that when he said shane died, he didnt mean that literally, shane died so that brandy can continue to live and shannon gave up her life (again not literally) so that brandy could have it. iTS REALLY NOT THAT CONFUSING , I SUGGEST YOU READ IT A FEW MORE TIMES.
These posts were all so long ago, that I don't think my opinion matters much in the debate of whether or not Shane died. I don't think he/she did. I've read that book many times, as well as his others, and there is a theme throughout them all about hitting bottom. Once you hit bottom, there is nowhere to go but up. Shane had nowhere else to go but up...I don't think he/she died. It wouldn't tie in.
the way that i read it, if it helps at all, Brandy Alexander died at the end.
or at least that's how I always took it. i never thought that she didn't die.
just my opinion much much later
later
They caught me because of the blood on my fingers and between my teeth. I looked up from my meal on the tile of the kitchen floor and dropped her cold limb with a thud and minor splash and told them it wasn't me.
I must have clicked on the wrong thread....I was curious about the ending also. It looks like the cousins Constructive Criticism and Obtuse Analysis left a long time ago.
"I want him declared a nuisance and taken away for the night....I want him declared a nuisance to the community."
I'll look into it more deeply later (my copy isn't on me at the moment) but I think what she meant when she said Shane was gone was that he could live as her now and his past as Shane is completely over. There's a line about how your past is only words and can be thrown away and start over. I think that means that Shane gets to start over as her.
"Kill yourself or don't kill yourself, but stop torturing me. I'm trying to move on with my life." -The Caseworker [i]Survivor[/i]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tuffy the Dump Truck [/i]
[B]Shane didn't die. Literally, anyway. Shane died, but Brandy lived. For proof, go here: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah. Shane in the hospital have no make-up and as Shannon say "I remember growing up with. Put toghether out of stick and bird bones. The Shane I'd forgotten..." Brandy look like Shane.
Then the Rhea sisters "kill" Shane and "revive" Brandy.
Sorry for my english [IMG]http://www.multiplayer.it/forumpics/forums/www/smiles/climbmirror.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=pacifister]I'll look into it more deeply later (my copy isn't on me at the moment) but I think what she meant when she said Shane was gone was that he could live as her now and his past as Shane is completely over. There's a line about how your past is only words and can be thrown away and start over. I think that means that Shane gets to start over as her.[/QUOTE]
that's what i figured too. Shane, in a sense, is dead. But goes on to live as someone else.
The idea of personality / who you are being subjective.
[QUOTE=aru]Then the Rhea sisters "kill" Shane and "revive" Brandy.[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR=PaleGreen][FONT=Tahoma]i just got done reading it and i liked it very much...a friend of mine who started me on chucks books said it'd be a lil confusing so i looked and waited to be confused....it never came till the last chapter....but it all sank in and i loved that book.....it's def. of the best....though how can you choose right....?[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=Pink][FONT=Tahoma]~Michelle~
"When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat?"[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
"Sofonda sets the make-up with powder and then Shane's gone."
That line on the last page and the fact that Shannon gave all her identity to Shane makes it pretty clear that Shane the person didn't literally die, he finally became what he always wanted to be: Shannon. Sofonda puts the last bit of make-up on and then Shane looked exactly like Brandy/Shannon. Unless Shane is fatally allergic to make-up powder, I don't think the forementioned line would mean he died.
Remember that this book was all about reinventing yourself and/or becoming a whole new person (as are almost all Palahniuks, actually) and you can become "gone" without literally dying.
As said numerous times above, the thought process concludes that Shane did not in fact die physically, but the name and "aura" of Shane did. All that has been wiped clean in favor of his identity as Shannon.
[IMG]http://img93.exs.cx/img93/9122/Batman-Sig.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Pink]Signature by Minuet <3[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[url=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?p=532807#post532807]"Transferring the Fortress From Which I Am Fleeing." Batman: Uncloaked & Caveless [/url]
i'm preety much sure shane is literally alive. but what i dont get is why did shannon gave shane her identity if she knew shane hated to be a woman, he just had the sex change because it was THE WORST THING HE COULD DO TO HIMSELF. shane still had his dick, so maybe he could go back to being a man... then why would he want to be shannon?????
Namer of a thousand names, maker of meanings, transformer of the world, your parents and the parents of your parents continue in you.
He wanted what he didn't want... if that makes sense. Shane had already had so much surgery he practically was a woman. He doesn't necessarily want to go back or anything.
Plus, read the start of the chapter....
Jump back to the La Paloma emergency room. The intravenous morphine. The tiny operating room mani*cure scissors cut Brandy's suit off. My brother's unhappy penis there blue and cold for the whole world to see. The police photos, and Sister Katherine screaming, "Take your pictures! Take your pictures now! He's still losing blood!"
Jump to surgery. Jump to post-op.
And then read...
The Rhea sisters slowly peel off their surgical masks.
"Brandy Alexander," says Kitty, "queen supreme."
"Total quality girl," Vivienne says.
"Forever and ever," says Sofonda, "and that's enough."
Are you really sure Shane still has his bits and pieces?
About him dying, I think what it meant was Shane is [B]gone[/B] not [B]dead[/B], because after all it says [B]gone[/B]. There is no more Shane, she's Brandy/Shannon. The ending of the book is all about starting over.
[QUOTE=Aru] The Rhea sisters "kill" Shane's persona for good and "revive" Brandy. [/QUOTE]
So very right.
[IMG]http://img93.exs.cx/img93/9122/Batman-Sig.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Pink]Signature by Minuet <3[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[url=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?p=532807#post532807]"Transferring the Fortress From Which I Am Fleeing." Batman: Uncloaked & Caveless [/url]
I think "Shane" died and became "Shannon" in a sense. Shane completed "real life training", taking Shannon's life, leaving 'Shane' behind.
At the end, Shane was going through Vaginalpasty? That's what I got, "total quality girl, for ever and ever", "that's enough" he's a real woman now, meaning: they gave him the Cadillac and were putting the make-up on for his first moment to awake from surgery, as a real woman, "that's enough." That's totally how I read it.
What a fucking ride, I couldn't put this down since I picked it up yesterday. I'm going to read this again soon.
Why os there a debate on this?
Why is it still going on?
The book was very clear.
There isn't any Da Vinci Code going on here. Chuck isn't speaking to you in cyphers.
His stories are simple and straightforward with the odd twist now and again.
Ah, it does say at the beginning of the last chapter Shane's still hung, and was just in for bullet surgery, my mistake.
I re-read the last chapter, one thing I don't get is how it starts "jump [I]back [/I] to La Paloma.." wouldn't it be jump [I]forward[/I] to?? being that shane was just shot and is in the hospital? The similarities between chapter3, where Shannon is in the hospital, morphine drip, dress cut off, and Sister Katherine saying "[I]Take your pictures, take your pictures now [B]she's[/B] still losing blood[/I].", and then last chapter, Shane is in the hospital, morphine drip, having his clothes cut off, Sister Katherine saying "[I]Take your pictures, take your pictures now [B]he's [/B] still losing blood[/I]." Just the similarities and the "jump back to" make me want to ask if I've missed anything, I don't think there's a connection between the two scenes, they're at completely different times, beginning of story, end of story. Shannon's there beside Shane for shotgun surgery to the breast, asking Katherine for the 8x10's from when she was first there... riiiight?
Please excuse me, as I've been up for over 24hrs ;)
I'm new here, and IM was the first book of Chuck's that I read, and I am a little surprised that this debate is here also.
The person known as "Shane" is dead figuratively, but "Brandy (Shannon)" is alive and well, saved by the aformentioned breast implant.
It seemed pretty clear to me.
I just got done reading this book, and I feel that Brandy/Shane had lived, and that she was saying goodbye, and that's enough to give to her brother, her life was enough to give so that Shane could wake up, and when he was healed he could live the life that she lived, the life in the spot light. I think that's what he means when he writes that's enough.
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