Save Mr. V! - Support The Teacher Suspended For Assigning 'Guts' To His Students
It's taken us a little while to officially report on this story, and for that we apologize. It's a big story that a couple of reporters have already tried to call and contact me about. The site has no comment on this matter at this time except to say that you can show your support for this issue by joining this Group:
To recap, about 2 weeks ago, a popular high school English teacher named Greg Van Voorhis was suspended for handing out copies of Chuck Palahniuk's ground-breaking short story Guts out to his 11th grade students. According to the Gothamist:
That didn't go over so well with school administrators at the Bronx School of Law and Finance in Marble Hill, where the seven-year veteran was quickly reassigned from his classroom duties while the Department of Education investigates.
As most of you know, Guts is a short story which was featured in the March 2004 issue of Playboy and is included as a chapter in Chuck's best-selling novel Haunted. The story was read live on Chuck's 2003-2004 tours and is so far responsible causing over 75 people worldwide to faint. We featured such an incident in our 2003 documentary on Chuck Postcards From The Future, and you can read the full story of Guts here.
To read the full article on Mr. V's suspension, go here.
And if you'd like to show your support, check out the Save Mr. V. Group On Facebook.
Comments
Can anyone confirm or deny if this is true?
http://chuckpalahniuk.net/users/logan575
I'm all about supporting this teacher, but I don't like how this Cult website goes straight to an article with a title "Bronx Teacher Suspended For Assigning Story On Masturbation". Not only is that a stupid title for an article, but its off the mark. "Guts" isn't about masturbation. So it contains some masturbation....does that mean that's what its "about"? Is "Fight Club" "about" beating people's asses? I think the title of that article is misleading and it shouldn't be promoted by The Cult.
I agree with you to a point. But there is an awful lot of masturbation in it. moreso than fighting in Fight Club.
They misspell Chuck's name right after they get it right in the article. I also didn't like that it said Palahniuk brags Guts has cause over 60 people to faint. To me that's not journalism. That's insulting Chuck. I do feel sorry for the guy though.
At first, I thought it was a pretty stupid move on Mr. V's part, but the more I think about it, the more I mostly support him. He probably should have gone through some mode of scholastic approval, but it isn't that awful a story, and as far as inappropriate subject matters go, it's always better to have an enviroment, such as a classroom, where you can discuss what you've read. I'm sure he could have argued his reasoning to get approval to distribute the story. He shouldn't suffer any punishment.
yeah, i think he got busted for the whole "Okay kids, let's just keep this our little secret" bit.
how is eating through your own lower intestine because your ass got stuck in a pool pump because you were essentially jacking off in said pool 'not that awful'? and the story is too about masturbation. i support this teacher guy but he went about it all wrong.
What could anyone possibly learn from Guts in a classroom? It's not even that good a story.
I know, right? There's a lot of short fiction out there that's actually really good, why give Guts to a class?
he was trying to be Mr. Cool Teacher and show the kids something subversive and cool. but he could have pretended it was in intellectual scholastical pursuits at least.
Yeah, I'm on the school's side on this one. My school made our parents sign a release form when we watched "Schindler's List." How did this guy think this WOULDN'T turn out badly?
In high school we got to choose one book that the class could read for "pleasure", that is, a book that wasn't on the official national syllabus but that the entire class would have to read. Just one. I suggested Fight Club (this was five years ago or something) and everyone was like, "Yay!" and my teacher OK'd it because she had never heard of it.
When we got back from our Christmas break she had to have a word with me about my choice of reading material. And that was Fight Club, which is pretty tame by Palahniuk standards.
Yeah, this guy is an idiot. My mom would drop a brick if she knew the content of any Palahniuk book that she knew I had read. She would make me go to church!
As an English teacher and a parent, I'm not sure I can condone this choice of short story to assign a class. I love all of Chuck's stuff, but there is absolutely a time and a place for it, and an 11th grade classroom isn't it ("Guts", that is).
I think it could be used very well to teach knucklehead high-schoolers that there's cool stuff out there to be read. That they don't have to rely on just movies and video games.
It's really only worth spending one class day on, and mostly to focus on how there are cool books out there if you look.
Completely wrong way to go about it, maybe all this fuss has gotten other kids to think of reading as a meaningful activity, whatever he's been suspended for by now (give him a week off) as punishment and let him go back to class.
It's done all the good it can do, there's nothing to gain by going overboard on a punishment. Everyone will have forgotten about it and moved on in 6 months anyways.
It seems that everyone is forgetting teenagers aren't as innocent as some people may think. What I don't understand is everyone is bagging on this guy when he is trying to encourage these students to read. There is so much sexual activity in Twilight and you don't see anyone trying to ban them from school libraries. He should have done what Jane's teacher done about getting permission. Other than that, it's getting carried away.
It's not about teenagers being innocent, it's about this guy being a moron for thinking he'd get away with it.
In that case, he is a moron. They should give him his job back though.
This right here.
As a parent, I want to know what's being presented in the class room. Also as a parent, I have a serious problem with any adult who would instruct my kid to keep something from me.
It's funny. At first, when I heard about this, I thought they were making a big deal about it. I thought what he did wasn't such a bad thing.
That quickly changed though. I thought about it realistically, and I can absolutely understand why he got in trouble. The whole lets keep it secret thing was worse. If he didn't say that, he could claim he thought it was okay, but by telling the kids to keep it hush hush, he basically admitted to knowing that it was wrong to do.
Should he have his job back? I don't know, but if I was a parent, and I found out my kid was reading that in a school funded by my tax dollars, I'd be pissed the fuck off too.
Yes, I would have a problem with someone telling my child to keep something from me too but at least it was a story and not something else on a more serious level.
That's not the point. That's an influential adult in those kids' lives who's telling them it's cool to keep shit from their parents....because he says so. Who is he to do that? It's not up to him to decide what's serious and what isn't. One parent might not take issue with their kid reading Guts, but another parent might. Now what? Who's right? It's wrong for him to take it upon himself to make that decision.
Responsible adults who are in a position to influence kids don't encourage sneaking around, period.
That's not the point. That's an influential adult in those kids' lives who's telling them it's cool to keep shit from their parents....because he says so. Who is he to do that? It's not up to him to decide what's serious and what isn't. One parent might not take issue with their kid reading Guts, but another parent might. Now what? Who's right? It's wrong for him to take it upon himself to make that decision.
Responsible adults who are in a position to influence kids don't encourage sneaking around, period.
I agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying that some people see it as "just a story" and some see it as "he's lied, told them to lie" type deal.
I hear ya. I just don't think the two are mutually exclusive, not in this context.
nvm
i was thinking about it earlier. i have a 15 year old niece. she's smart and perceptive. nothing gets past her. her and i share a lot of secrets because she and my brother (her stepdad) don't get along some of the time. so she vents to me. if she would have read 'guts' by herself i would have told her 'that's a crazy story'. if her teacher had her read it as part of her class, i would have said 'weird. but ok.' if her teacher would have had her read it and said 'sshh, don't tell your parents', i would have lost my temper a little bit. she's not even my kid and i think i'd risk jail or prison if someone messed with her. that teacher is a tool.
That's not the point. That's an influential adult in those kids' lives who's telling them it's cool to keep shit from their parents....because he says so. Who is he to do that? It's not up to him to decide what's serious and what isn't. One parent might not take issue with their kid reading Guts, but another parent might. Now what? Who's right? It's wrong for him to take it upon himself to make that decision.
Responsible adults who are in a position to influence kids don't encourage sneaking around, period.
I don't think he had some master plan to turn children against parents, complete with hand-wringing and evil laugh or anything. I doubt he even realized what it was exactly he was doing by telling them to not tell anyone. That's why I think just giving him whatever he's already been suspended for as enough of a punishment. There's no reason for ruining some one's livelihood just because they made some goofy mistake.
Oh noes! Hundreds of children in America will lose human sausage parts to pool drains now!
Hundreds? How many kids were in this guy's class?
That's not the point. That's an influential adult in those kids' lives who's telling them it's cool to keep shit from their parents....because he says so. Who is he to do that? It's not up to him to decide what's serious and what isn't. One parent might not take issue with their kid reading Guts, but another parent might. Now what? Who's right? It's wrong for him to take it upon himself to make that decision.
Responsible adults who are in a position to influence kids don't encourage sneaking around, period.
I don't think he had some master plan to turn children against parents, complete with hand-wringing and evil laugh or anything. I doubt he even realized what it was exactly he was doing by telling them to not tell anyone. That's why I think just giving him whatever he's already been suspended for as enough of a punishment. There's no reason for ruining some one's livelihood just because they made some goofy mistake.
That why I said it could have been something more serious like drugs for example. He needs to be given a second chance I feel.
Hes a dummy for giving it to his class but people need to calm down! Its a fuggin story!
People go overboard with stupid shit nowadays! The whole worlds gonna end cause hamburgers contain funny things, children read playboy and blah blah blah. Hmm, I dont know what I'm talking about...
:-
lol smiley face.
A formal write up tossed in his file should be all he gets for something like this, IMO. Was he in the wrong presenting it the way he did? Probably. But assuming he is normally a good teacher, it's certainly not something that should end in a firing.
Everyone had a "cool" teacher when they were in school, if you think about it, they probably let you do things that you shouldn't have or they themselves did things they shouldn't have.
I had a ceramics teacher. A really quiet guy, really into art and the guy who got me interested in art enough to go to school for design... Anyhow, I would help him out around the class, and on many occasions, I saw him purposely destroy something that certain students made. Many times, it was garbage that some douchebag made, like a wall hanging of the Ford Mustang logo. Or, as you can imagine, district policy required he destroy anything that remotely looked like it could be used to smoke pot. If you were creative about it, he looked the other way.
That he abused his position by asking kids to keep a secret from parents/adults and the rest of the world is/should be the issue here.
THAT is NOT a quality you want in someone who has access to your kids. 11th grade or not. Period. Cool teachers are great, but anytime I hear about someone telling kids to keep this our secret, ewwwwwww.
He probably should've went the signed release and/or be-up-front-about-this-book route, but he didn't. I cannot see how having a teacher/minister/cop/creepy uncle who thinks it is okay to manipulate kids like that is beneficial to a kid's development. If he's willing to play the "our little secret" card on that front, what else would/could he play it on? I doubt he's had candid camera time with Chris Hansen or anything, but still, that's NOT a quality you want in anyone who has access to your kids.
He messed up, big time, in that regards - lost the trust of the faculty and the parents. He should be punished to some degree, but I don't know about being kicked to the curb...
Mr. Cool wants to be loved by the kids and seen as one of "Them". It will sooner or later come out that he is "dating" one of his students. I guarrangoddamntee it.
The story is not an issue. The issue is that this guy has shown that he is completely devoid of sound judgement.
It was a dumb thing to do. You'd think he's old enough to be able to understand the consequences.
at least it wasnt Twilight.
Has Chuck made any comments on this? It obviously isn't Chucks fault but has he said anything on the topic of it? It isn't anyones fault this happened.
Well, yeah, it is the teacher's fault.
The news article linked to by this web site materially misrepresents the truth of what occurred in Mr. V.’s classroom. The facts, corroborated by the students themselves on the Discussion page of the “Save Mr. V” facebook group – and not disputed by the school are:
1. The reading was listed on Mr. V’s syllabus/reading schedule and presented to the school administration before the start of the school year. The principal and assistant principal received the schedule before the start of classes, and every teacher that teaches Mr. V’s students had that information, as did the students themselves, on Day 1 of the semester. This was not a surreptitious act on the part of the teacher. I myself have seen his syllabus and schedule with the story listed on it.
2. The students were not asked to turn their copies of “Guts” back in; they kept then and took them home.
3. The story was used to teach students how to respond to Regents Exam essay questions., instructing students in the proper way to discuss literature. This particular lesson was an explanation of how to read with a “critical lens.”
“Guts” has a moral; the students understood it. These excerpts from the story show the other side of the stor, the clear message, going far beyond the shallow readings by the media.
On the phone, right now, he starts to cry.
They paid for the bladder operation with his college fund. One stupid mistake, and now he'll never be a lawyer.
And
…After you have a radical bowel resectioning, you don't digest meat so great. Most people, you have five feet of large intestine. I'm lucky to have my six inches. So I never got a football scholarship. Never got an MBA. Both my friends, the wax kid and the carrot kid, they grew up, got big, but I've never weighed a pound more than I did that day when I was thirteen.
4. 96% of Mr. V’s students pass the Regents exam in their junior year. This is an exceptional record for a New York City school.
5. The students he is assigned to mentor in “Advisory” groups have all graduated on time.
6. Students are now longer reading only literature that predates 1950. School curricula now include authors like Tony Morrison, Junot Diaz, and works like “Clockwork Orange.” The world has changed for all of us; it is important that along with the classic canon, students read the authors of their time, those who, in due time – if not already – will become tomorrow’s classic canon writers, as Kerouac and so many others already have. Please support Mr. V for all the right reasons. Let's all support putting the dude back in the classroom!
"Guts" may or may not be as bawdy as some parts of the "The Canterbury Tales." The absurd length and the extreme actions of such prose typically represent something else or are metaphorical in nature.
The narratives are to be thought through by the student as an exercise to demonstrate their ability to reason, reach a viewpoint, defend it while expressing themselves cogently.
Perhaps if he had offered the students a selection of texts to choose from and allowed the parents to weigh in on it he would still be in the classroom.
Mr. V crushed my dreams. I have often fantasized about teaching high school English and assigning "Guts" to my classes then getting suspended over it. Thanks a lot Mr. V.
Wow, assuming what BronxDR says is true, it puts an entirely different spin on the story. Thanks for sharing, do you have ant references to support your claims?
The narratives are to be thought through by the student as an exercise to demonstrate their ability to reason, reach a viewpoint, defend it while expressing themselves cogently.
Perhaps if he had offered the students a selection of texts to choose from and allowed the parents to weigh in on it he would still be in the classroom.
The particular story was used for Regents preparation and for preparation for the next book. The reading was prefaced by a 30-minute discussion in class of what the purpose of the lesson was. No student had a problem with the text, nor did any parent complain. Parents are not consulted on academic decisions and since parental values vary, there would either never be consensus, or the curriculum would be watered down to nothing. Does one not teach science because there are different views among the parents in this case? You would have to see the entire curriculum to see this one short-story in its proper curricular context. And what about parents whose English skills would not be sufficient to allow them to participate; should they be excluded? Parents who seek curriculum control probably opt for home schooling. "The Bluest Eye," "Drown," and even many Shakespeare texts are replete with barely-disguised explicit sexual references, images, and actions. Today's sensibilities have changed; students who are taught to deal with texts as literature are way ahead of the game. And let's not forget; his students are READING and passing the state-wide English exam and going on to college.
Well he should have known what he was given to the students but highschool students should be able to make the decision for themselves if they were disgusted by it or not. I am not even in highschool and GUTS didn't bother me one bit.
It was never a secret. It was on the syllabus presented at the beginning of the year - and in the students' binders. Check out the "save mr. v" facebook group and see the student comments, particularly in the Discussions. The reading was never a secret and the students took the story home with them. The media reports are incorrect on that score, and that fact is absolutely critical to understanding how the media are distorting this matter.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=app_2373072738&gid=159270906478.
Can't believe everything you read in the press, can you? They never checked the facts, just printed and reprinted the same stuff. No one involved can discuss the matter while it is ongoing, except the students. The students know what happened and have said so, as have their parents, but you won't see that in the papers 'cause that stuff won't sell. They don't give a damn about those who may suffer as a result of their sloppy journalism, but we cannot be sloppy readers. What is missing from the press articles is more telling than what is included.
Is Twilight more pretty awesome(inadequate to such places as school) than GUTS?