The State Of The Forums
Hello all,
I want to address some of the recent activity on the boards as well as lay out some ground rules upon going forward. As of February 2009, things on the site changed. Whether you like it or not, the transformation of the Writers' Workshop and Chuck's direct involvement with it now, is something truly great for The Cult. More importantly though, it's great for the writers who get to benefit from it. This is an unprecedented opportunity for people.
Both this, and Kirk's recent restoration of a lot of the key features on our Forums, have transformed the site in such a way that, I personally haven't been this excited to be its webmaster in years. I'm on the boards every day now. Living on the 'Recent Posts' page. Watching the population of Groups and the creation of Blogs. Watching it all grow and evolve.
What this means though, is that we have had to start tightening our belts. I won't say there is a direct correlation between it all, but seeing the recent spike in activity and traffic to our site, due to the Workshop promotion, has made us realize just how lenient we had gotten with the Forum. Now granted, leniency ain't always such a bad thing. But in this instance, I think the cons of it all have outweighed the pros.
I'm not exactly sure when it happened, but over the last few years our forums have become a place where newbies very frequently don't feel at home. Of the tons of unique new visitors that check out our boards every day, a staggeringly low amount of these people ever decide to stick around. Lately, we've even had people PMing us, telling us there was just too much animosity and hostility on our boards that they not only decided to skip the experience for themselves, but had also thought about even warning curious friends of theirs away from it all.
That's just sad to me. A total waste of providing. We're robbing these people... these fans of Chuck Palahniuk... of a potentially awesome community for them to experience and meet friends.
Now, many of you will say that these people need to grow thicker skins. That if they're that easily offended, they should lighten up, roll with it, or even fuck off. But there is always another way. A person doesn't need to be called a 'fag' within their first 5 posts, and told to leave.
I recently joined a large movie message board. It was one I had thought about joining for a while. And I finally got the energy and inclination to give it a whirl a few weeks back. I even spent about 30 minutes on prettying up my profile first. And upon my first afternoon of posting, I was met with hostility. So now, while the post didn't offend me or anything, it left just enough of a bad taste in my mouth to where I actually gave up on the forum right then and there. And now, weeks later, I haven't been back since.
I'm telling you this because I'm a person with a very thick skin. I don't get easily offended. In fact, I get offended when I see other people getting offended over stupid shit. But I do believe in giving people a fair shake. In treating people as equals until they eventually prove that they may just be idiots. But if that's ever the case, then you can simply ignore them. You can Report Abuse when you see it. Or simply PM a Moderator.
Speaking of Moderators, I want to set a few other things straight. A lot of the Mods on this forum are your friends. Close friends in many instances. The fact that they rose to the challenge and accepted this position on the boards should be admired, not scoffed at. This is an unpaid, and many times, tiresome job. The only thing that changes for these fine folks, upon receiving a Mod position, is that they now have to deal with a shitload of responsibility. And up until recently, it even meant they had to deal with people disrespecting them any chance they could.... mocking them in the open.... and even cursing and yelling at them extensively.
I'm really not sure what's up with that. I think we've been lenient for so long here, that quite frankly, none of you take us and our jobs here seriously. You think you own the place. You forget that this is a huge message board on the official website of one of the most popular authors in the world. You forget that there are millions of Chuck fans out there in the world and that all of them deserve a fair chance to discover this website and its message boards.
Now understanding all that, put yourself in the positions of our Admins and Moderators. Understand that we take every issue seriously. What may seem like a fun and risky venture to purposely get yourself banned one day, just to stir shit up, can cause an afternoon of headache for all of us. Furthermore, I think people just get off lately on proving that they don't have to listen to us. And all that's done so far is get a lot of cool people temporarily banned.
The banning of Tom9d for instance, upset Smartazboy so much, that he thought about quitting his position as Moderator. He finally decided just to take a mini-vacation from the site. What's infuriating is that, Tom is a great member. Someone we'd normally hate to ban. Yet someone who just one day decided to push our buttons and test how far he could take it. At the expense of a friend of his like Frank.
I'm sorry, but that shit's just downright mean. Not to mention pointless and immature.
We run a great forum here. We want it to grow and suceed. We want larger meet-ups, a more bustling chat room, and tighter groups of friends forming. But understand that we have a job to do. We have Guidelines and Rules that we need you to honor. And we have Admins and Mods that need to be respected.
It's not a threat when I say that things are going to change around here in 2009. We want the forums to grow just as expansively as the new Workshop has grown already. But to do this, we're going to need all your help. We're going to need the immaturity to stop. We're going to need the spamming... the parody threads... the calling out of other members... the downright hostility to new members.... all of it... to stop.
We're at a point where the future of this site and how much better it can become is way more important to us then preserving a part of the past.
Nothing has to be erased. Nobody has to be banned. Do you know that Six wasn't kicked off the site? I didn't even ask her to "fuck off," as she so purposely miscontrued in her 'fairwell" thread. She decided to spin the PM I sent her in an attempt to become a martyr. Playing victim is something I see a lot of members do here and it's frankly lame and self-important. If you want to ditch our boards, go for it. There are plenty of other message boards out there. But I think that you'll soon come to realize how good you had it here. How loose our Guidelines actually are.
I say this a lot, but there's a reason we've been online for almost 10 years now. We know how to run a successful website. So please, let us run a better message board.
Wanna have the pants scared off you in 90 seconds?
Watch 'Laundry Day', my new horror short:
ok, dad.
j/k dennis. 
nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it.
To expand on my previous comment- Burning something down is easy, any little s**t can do it. Building something is difficult, it takes time, devotion, intelligence and most of all good will. Too many people here take the easy way out. They read Palahniuk's books and think they're about ruining things, they don't see the other side of it. They don't realise that when you tear something down you have build something stronger to replace it. It's an immature way of looking at things. It's immature and it's stupid and it's selfish, but it's not a good thing. What you're doing, Dennis and all the other mods, IS a good thing, so well done and keep at it.
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All that reading and we still don't know how long he's banned.
I guess you are asking about Tom? This thread is about larger issues and the future direction we'd like the messageboard to take. As well as the new expectations and enforcements of the guidelines.
Please lets keep it on topic and not turn it into an inquiry about one person. That would be very much appreciated.
Suggestion...perhaps there should be a 'news for regulars' section, like if we're out for a few days and something big happens (whether it be a announcement such as this or news of a ban or something of the sort) so nobody feels, as Ritt and I do, out of the loop.
"They sold you hippies grunge, hip hop, now liberty activism."
I agree with the "News Updates" suggestions. It would be great to have like a mods update section where it has upcoming site blurbs (book tour starting soon!) Police blotter (XXX user banned until 3/10/2009 for the crime of _____), rules updates, etc.It would prevent shoutbox from becoming clogged with WHAT HAPPENED TO SO AND SO?!
Also, you may want to expand and clarify on the rules section - there are specific statements against "empty posts" (ie - I'm bored") but nothing mentioned of parody threads. updating site guidelines would be one thing, but having a nice sticky at the top of the forum that keeps us all in the loop could prevent future kerfuffles.
Hey guys,
With all due respect, this isn't such a good idea. In essence, it seems like you're asking for a bulletin board of sorts, that updates regulars on Mod activity and Bannings.
Bannings are between the Staff and the person that was banned. We have nothing to hide in any of these instances, but the person banned, quite honestly, may not like the reasons posted for all to see. This is a privacy issue.
We have a pretty tight community here, so whenever someone gets banned, members are usually PMing about it within hours. So really, it's just a minor inconvenience we're talking about here, that this information isn't easily or readibly posted in public.
In the case of Tom, his ban would've just been three days. It's now become 2 weeks though, because, against our Guidelines, he went and tried to re-access the site the same day he was banned on multiple other accounts.
Hope that helps.
Wanna have the pants scared off you in 90 seconds?
Watch 'Laundry Day', my new horror short:
I do agree, however, that updating the Forum Guidelines and making them easier to find, is a good idea. We're already in the process of working on this actually. So stay tuned for that.
Wanna have the pants scared off you in 90 seconds?
Watch 'Laundry Day', my new horror short:
Premier!
Don't know which version of Drupal we're on, but...
http://drupal.org/project/ignore_user
The ignore feature just perpetuates the problems we are trying to avoid. There will be cliquey talk on the boards about who has who on ignore. Snotty comments like 'Oh, I have no idea what she/he said, I have them on ignore" etc.
It's not a lot to suggest that people really just ignore people that annoy them. Exercising a modicum of self restraint isn't unreasonable. And that is the current expectation here. Be reasonable and be respectful towards other members and the the staff.
That kind of ignores the idea that maybe one can tell from any one of an insistant weirdoes posts that they might just be an idiot.
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It's not a lot to suggest that people really just ignore people that annoy them. Exercising a modicum of self restraint isn't unreasonable. And that is the current expectation here. Be reasonable and be respectful towards other members and the the staff.
i got no self restraint. If I see someone say something stupid, i'll usually call them on it. If I already knew they were stupid then I could put them on ignore and voila problem solved. But whatever.
Just so I know ahead of time though, how long a ban is it for calling stupid people retards?
the the staff huh mirka?
nice
--- UPDATED-----but kinda like what parker said if someone says "hi, i'm so-n-so, and i like peanut butter and long walks on the beach"
we can't say dude, your stupid and this isn't the sight for you?
i don't disrespect the noobs and don't really insult people but if someone said that TO someone like that, it's not showing any appreciaction (oops) for palahniuk or for anything at all really, so why not call them out on it.
does it have to be like super offensive?
nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it.
It's not a lot to suggest that people really just ignore people that annoy them. Exercising a modicum of self restraint isn't unreasonable. And that is the current expectation here. Be reasonable and be respectful towards other members and the the staff.
i got no self restraint. If I see someone say something stupid, i'll usually call them on it. If I already knew they were stupid then I could put them on ignore and voila problem solved. But whatever.
Just so I know ahead of time though, how long a ban is it for calling stupid people retards?
Good lord I would hate to be around you in real life.
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What the hell? So, I'm going to have to read Cassun talk about what he wants to do with boobs and everything for the rest of my days in cult?
That kind of ignores the idea that maybe one can tell from any one of an insistant weirdoes posts that they might just be an idiot.
I've tried reading this five times and i still can't make head or tails from it. Is there a word missing between "one" and "of?" Is it two sentences mushed together?
It's not a lot to suggest that people really just ignore people that annoy them. Exercising a modicum of self restraint isn't unreasonable. And that is the current expectation here. Be reasonable and be respectful towards other members and the the staff.
i got no self restraint. If I see someone say something stupid, i'll usually call them on it. If I already knew they were stupid then I could put them on ignore and voila problem solved. But whatever.
Just so I know ahead of time though, how long a ban is it for calling stupid people retards?
Good lord I would hate to be around you in real life.
I can live with that.
nice
--- UPDATED-----but kinda like what parker said if someone says "hi, i'm so-n-so, and i like peanut butter and long walks on the beach"
we can't say dude, your stupid and this isn't the sight for you?
i don't disrespect the noobs and don't really insult people but if someone said that TO someone like that, it's not showing any appreciaction (oops) for palahniuk or for anything at all really, so why not call them out on it.
does it have to be like super offensive?
The thing is, you shouldn't make fun of someone if they show up and are like a super chuck fan or something and just say how much they like his books and all. That's just new found passion. They're new and need to have a chance to grow.
it's when people show up and say stupid shit that has nothing to do with anything, trying to be all random and funny, that you know right off the bat they got nothing to offer. They deserve Valhalla called down upon their head.
exactly.
nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it.
nice
--- UPDATED-----but kinda like what parker said if someone says "hi, i'm so-n-so, and i like peanut butter and long walks on the beach"
we can't say dude, your stupid and this isn't the sight for you?
i don't disrespect the noobs and don't really insult people but if someone said that TO someone like that, it's not showing any appreciaction (oops) for palahniuk or for anything at all really, so why not call them out on it.
does it have to be like super offensive?
No, you can't call someone stupid because they like peanut butter and long walks on the beach. You should just ignore them. Who are you to suggest that this site is not for them? Lots of members have started off seemingly boring or lame that turned out to be a lot of fun.
I bet this thread gets locked soon.
I think there should be an ignore function and if you mention anywhere that someone is on your ignore list - automatic 3 day ban.
It's not a lot to suggest that people really just ignore people that annoy them. Exercising a modicum of self restraint isn't unreasonable. And that is the current expectation here. Be reasonable and be respectful towards other members and the the staff.
i got no self restraint. If I see someone say something stupid, i'll usually call them on it. If I already knew they were stupid then I could put them on ignore and voila problem solved. But whatever.
Just so I know ahead of time though, how long a ban is it for calling stupid people retards?
Bans are on a case by case basis. It would depend on the situation. Like if you were on a rampage and flaming all new members. Or if you've been warned or banned previously for something else. In this case, since you have more or less stated your intention to call people retards, probably a week. Again, it would depend.
to call stupid people retards. Big distinction.
That kind of ignores the idea that maybe one can tell from any one of an insistant weirdoes posts that they might just be an idiot.
I've tried reading this five times and i still can't make head or tails from it. Is there a word missing between "one" and "of?" Is it two sentences mushed together?
Okay, I'm sorry. While I think that sentance was grammatically correct it was probably a syntactic nightmare and missed my original point. Then again, that's sarcasm for you.
That said, I agree with absolutly everything that Nate said.
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Hey guys,
With all due respect, this isn't such a good idea. In essence, it seems like you're asking for a bulletin board of sorts, that updates regulars on Mod activity and Bannings.
Bannings are between the Staff and the person that was banned. We have nothing to hide in any of these instances, but the person banned, quite honestly, may not like the reasons posted for all to see. This is a privacy issue.
You don't have to tell us why they were banned. Just a notification of some sort would do. I'm only asking this because not all of us can connect outside of the Cult and if one of our buddies hasn't been posting in a couple of days it can lead to people asking in the shoutbox, messaging mods/admins when we shouldn't be asking you about it since it is a private matter. Something simple as their username and date would be good and satisfy every one's curiosity.
I think I might've seen on another forum once this kind of rating system where everyone is allowed to either praise or scorn any member they choose by giving them a negative or positive "point." And I realize that it might become a hassle because some people would fuck with the privilege, but if you put that system up and moderate how it's used, couldn't that essentially solve the whole hazing problem?
P.S. I'm with nate on calling out idiots, though. It's one thing when a newbie is just socially inept and we're being elitist assholes, but it's another thing entirely when TYLERDURDEN12345 shows up and starts acting a fool. The latter should be punished mercilessly, by us. We can't have this turn into the imdb.com message boards. Just sayin'...
mirka said: No, you can't call someone stupid because they like peanut butter and long walks on the beach. You should just ignore them. Who are you to suggest that this site is not for them? Lots of members have started off seemingly boring or lame that turned out to be a lot of fun.
understood.
nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it.
One thing I don't get is why parody threads are bad. Sometimes the parody thread inspires more conversation than the original. I understand when there are five of them parodying the same thing and none of them go anywhere, yeah that's lame, but its not like they are going to stay around for long if they don't inspire interest.
Yes, I've been on another forum with this system and it worked really well. They called it karma, and you could + or - people. You couldn't use it until you had 50 posts, and you couldn't do more than one of each in a day, thus stopping the system from being abused. Also, you had to provide a reason for your karma-ing, and it could be linked to a specific post of the persons that you did/didn't like. Was quite a great system. Plus, this was on a website of solely high school students, so if they could manage it maturely I imagine we could too.
i believe we had that very briefly, if anyone remembers. as i recall, no one really used it.
I think it was here, but never fully explained. There were a couple of threads wondering WTF karma was about and why we were supposed to use it...
Yes, I've been on another forum with this system and it worked really well. They called it karma, and you could + or - people. You couldn't use it until you had 50 posts, and you couldn't do more than one of each in a day, thus stopping the system from being abused. Also, you had to provide a reason for your karma-ing, and it could be linked to a specific post of the persons that you did/didn't like. Was quite a great system. Plus, this was on a website of solely high school students, so if they could manage it maturely I imagine we could too.
i could easily see that be abused to keep people who certain cliques deem unfit for the cult from taking part in the discussion.
www.triplebeard.com
http://darkroomreview.blogspot.com
“...There are so many ways of being despicable it quite makes one's head spin. But the way to be really despicable is to be contemptuous of other people's pain. You ought to have some apprehension that the man you see before you was once even younger than you are now and arrived at his present wretchedness by imperceptible degrees.”
-James Baldwin
Why dont we just put a bit more thought into our threads and posts. Myself included!
About the being nice to everyone, I dont really think that is that easy. Im generally viewed as a nice guy around here but sometimes people get on mah tits. I think everything in moderation is better than nothing at all.
A "Karma" system really doesn't solve the problem, as Atomos mentioned because of cliques. I'd much rather people just exercise a low level amount of decency. You don't have to like or agree with everyone. In fact, you don't have to be nice to everyone. We're just trying to get rid of replies like "You're a fag" when someone new comes to the site.
Every post has an "abuse" button. Use it if you feel something is over the line. We try to stay on top of everything but sometimes stuff slips passed us. When you hit abuse, there is ample space for you to describe what you think is bad about the post.
Yeah, I don't want people thinking that we're asking them to be nice to someone who is clearly being a scumbag. If someone joins the forum and their first post is something along the lines of, "Alright. So... who wants to suck my dick first?". Then clearly, this sort of person calls for a certain type of response. Or even no response at all. Just a simple click of the Abuse button.
If you want to reply to this person, we're not asking you to censor yourselves in these instances. Just use smart judgement. Sometimes, as in the case I stated above, it will be a no-brainer. But I've seen, more so than not, a lot of cases where it's not a no-brainer case, yet regulars still reply to the noob in an overtly challenging, hostile way.
It's that element that we're trying to remove.
So really, this is just common sense, folks. Just be cool and we'll be cool.
Wanna have the pants scared off you in 90 seconds?
Watch 'Laundry Day', my new horror short:
This all seems fair, and I'm happy to hear that Tom will be back in two weeks.
Yep. Tom actually contacted Kirk and I on Facebook and was very cool and understanding. Will look forward to having him back here soon.
Wanna have the pants scared off you in 90 seconds?
Watch 'Laundry Day', my new horror short:
Were any of the PM's you recieved referring to me making fun of that girls hair? If so, sorry about that, I was just really pissed off that morning and apparently I was out of line, because I heard about it several times after.
seriously, yaw. we need to band together and make certain folks stay off of derek's tits.
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play hard, like it's work to be done.
but they are such nice tits.
50 bucks on zoobot.
Did she ever come back after that? I felt really sorry for her after your comment. I know it was really unlike you though.
Good coffee is like drinking Rock and Roll.
She's still around I think, posted more pics too. She's a tough'un, that one.
Yeah, she's still about, but notice she didn't have that dumb haircut in the newer pictures. I'm helping.
I remember seeing a picture thread before I joined here. This person posted an image and then there was a lot of debate as to whether said person was male or female. It went on for quite a while and was rather painful to read. I don't remember what the final decision was on the gender. Even with that, I still joined anyway.
Good coffee is like drinking Rock and Roll.
the bottom line really is this:
people here could be nicer, they should be nicer, but (and this applies with any community, but especially a writing workshop/community like this one) you have to have thick skin.
www.triplebeard.com
http://darkroomreview.blogspot.com
“...There are so many ways of being despicable it quite makes one's head spin. But the way to be really despicable is to be contemptuous of other people's pain. You ought to have some apprehension that the man you see before you was once even younger than you are now and arrived at his present wretchedness by imperceptible degrees.”
-James Baldwin
Dennis, I applaud you.
EDIT: and all the mods, you do a damn fine job.
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