Need to be forgiven?
In the Swiss newspaper "Tages-Anzeiger", I've read an interesting interview with Chuck about his film "Choke" shown at a film festival in Locarno (Switzerland).
He says: "Ja, die Fight Clubs, die Selbsthilfegruppen in «Choke» - all diese Gruppen funktionieren ähnlich wie früher die Gottesdienste. Da reden die Menschen darüber, was sie unter der Woche falsch gemacht haben. Man hört ihnen zu, es wird ihnen vergeben. Dann dürfen sie zurück in die Gemeinschaft. So wird die Last ihrer Grenzüberschreitungen nie zu schwer für sie. Jede Woche bekommen sie ihre kleine Erlösung. Wir brauchen solche Räume ausserhalb der regulären Welt, wo wir unsere Vergehen «ordnen» und abtragen können."
In English (my translation): "Yes, the fight clubs, the support groups in 'Choke' - all these groups work similar than formerly the church services. People talk about what they have done wrong during the week. They are listing to them and forgiving them. Then they are allowed to return to the community. Like this, the burden of their crossing the line never gets to heavy for them. Each week they get their little redemption. We need such rooms outside of the regular world, where we can 'arrange' and repay our offenses."
I wonder about your opion about this. I think that Chuck is right with what he says about support groups. But: Do we need to be forgiven for our sexual desires? Isn't this just human nature (for believers: a gift from god)? And what makes people feel guilty?
I think that Stonecoyote is right. Actually, I don't know what's "right" but his post makes sense to me and Iagree with it.
Like many topics, there are so many different angles and sides to it which is what makes it interesting subject matter. When he was speaking in Seattle for the SNUFF tour Chuck said that he is always fascinated and inspired by working “with an unresolved area of the culture”.
Perhaps, the issue isn't so much that these people did anything wrong in either of the films/books. It's not that "sex" or becoming a corporate drone are necessarily wrong. What matters is that the characters that are dealing with these issues feel guilty that they have let something that they do not agree with on a core level take over. They only need that "forgiveness" because they are engaging in behaviors that they don't even believe in. With their self control and self esteem playing off of eachother in the exhausting environments of their lives, it's as if they don't feel strong enough and/or that they've made the necessary steps to fix their lives.
Look around and you will notice that most people are more reactive than they are pro-active. I think that people often feel guilty for their lack of "bravery" or "strength" which makes them feel weaker. It's a cycle. Sometimes it may help them to find away to apologize to themselves or "god" or where ever they are directing the energy and trying to say, "I know I need to change this. Here are other people. I'm not alone. I know I should get it together" or a million other things.
I think that maybe Chuck is doing the same thing that you are doing by posting this question on the forum, bringing up questions that help people reflect and creating discussions.
The entrance to nirvana is gained by forgiving oneself, if you can't do this then you will spend your conscious existance in hell. Plus if you can't forgive yourself why the fuck should I let ya off the hook.
I think Chuckles comments on the way society functions at present and not what is right or wrong.On large someone whose view of sex is that it should be had at every occasion possible or in places that involve the risk of being found etc or viewed as a deviant but on the other hand, tell the same stories to the lads down the pub and your a sexual commando.
Personaly the only time I've ever felt guilty about sex is the one time I was a real no class piece of shit and I cheated on my then partner but thier are people out there who feel guilty if they have a wank and then feel the need to talk it through. Sex has become a field of landmines in todays society and led to open discussions on the internet amongst groups of people discussing if its right or wrong to feel the need to discuss sexual orientation, habits etc in groups.
There are no pacts between lions and men.