Discussion 3/05: Eleanor Rigby by Douglas Coupland

I thought the ending seemed almost identical to the ending of 'Hey Nostradamus.' Maybe even most of Coupland's work, but it seemed like this incredibly hopeful view towards a very negative future. Here, we know Liz is going to die, but she's happy, she's re-inspired, just like Reg was re-inspired to find his son, the whole thing about the bigfoot in HN. It's like of like both these characters have wasted their lives, and now that they don't have much time left, they've realized the error of their ways, and started doing things right.

That's they way I took it. I made my fiancee read 'Eleanor Rigby' and she thought the ending was nothing but sad. She even cried in her sleep thinking about it. She didn't at all find it hopeful and positive as I did. Thoughts on this?

The Coupland books that I've read, HN, Generation X, All Families are Psychotic, all seem to be this way. He takes us through some sort of descent, and things look pretty bleak for his characters, and he always seems to end them just when things start to turn upwards. He doesn't give us the resolution, but he starts us that way.

I think Coupland painted a somewhat lonely picture, but definately not the most effective I've read. I think Brett Eston Ellis is a master at lonliness, and Tom Perrotta (Election) does this fairly well at times too, see 'Joe College.' I don't know, it just seemed like Lizz's lonlines really was a choice, and not just her rationalization of it. I think the message Coupland wanted to give us was, Lizz was isolated as a child, and throughout her life, so she said she liked being alone in order to protect herself, and further isolating her from everyone else, but this wasn't a good thing for her to do. Instead, I got it as, Lizz wanted to be lonely, she was lonely, and then she found something better.

That's all for now.

[QUOTE=moe.ron]
- Are Coupland's characters fully-rounded people, or mouthpieces for snippets of philosophy and social commentary?
[/QUOTE]
Although I liked the book I think that this question sums up exactly what I was thinking at parts of it. Sometimes the main character really did feel like a cardboard cutout Coupland was standing behind and shouting little bits of strange philosophy around. I liked the bits, but the main character seems almost secondary. I actually liked some of the supporting characters better. The mom and the siblings were enjoyable.
I did think the main character being fat was an interesting choice. There was one point in the book where she said something about eating a whole tray of cinnamon rolls, and I was thinking, "Wait a second...that's right! She's fat" because I had forgotten. The next paragraph was the main character saying something like "Don't forget: I'm fat." I liked this. It made me feel smart because I felt like I was reading a couple lines ahead or something.
So I guess I have a couple questions if people are interested:
-I thought that Jeremy's decline would be the saddest part of the book, and that's the part Coupland skips over. We get glimpses of it, but not in the moment of it happening. Did this work for other people?
-Has anybody read any other books with fat main characters? And I don't necessarily mean books ABOUT being fat, just books where the characters happen to be fat. Curiosity.

[QUOTE=rico wonderboy] I made my fiancee read 'Eleanor Rigby' and she thought the ending was nothing but sad. She even cried in her sleep thinking about it. She didn't at all find it hopeful and positive as I did. Thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]
Does your fiance really cry in her sleep? That's horrifying! I mean, I've done my fair share of crying after "sleeping" with someone, but not while actually Asleep.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]I did think the main character being fat was an interesting choice. There was one point in the book where she said something about eating a whole tray of cinnamon rolls, and I was thinking, "Wait a second...that's right! She's fat" because I had forgotten. The next paragraph was the main character saying something like "Don't forget: I'm fat." I liked this. It made me feel smart because I felt like I was reading a couple lines ahead or something.
.[/QUOTE]

I've got lots to add, but I'm snowed under with work at the mo. I'll check back in tomorrow and throw in my thoughts.

I just wanted to quickly say about the "fat" thing though:

We don't really find out about this until page 79!
It's a really interesting way to introduce what most people would see as not just an important physical detail, but one that possilby says something about her character in general. Up until that point, I had envisioned someone chronically grey and brown, with cardigans and straight, lank mousey hair. I thought she might be a bit chubby, but not "fat".

What's interesting is that Liz goes on to say that she thought it might cloud people's idea of her:

[QUOTE]"who wants to know what goes on in a fat person's mind?"[/QUOTE]

As though all her words are tainted by her size (pretty funny too):

[QUOTE]"Even [SIZE=1]lard[/SIZE] when [SIZE=1]carbs[/SIZE] I [SIZE=1]calories[/SIZE] try [SIZE=1]sugar[/SIZE] concealing [SIZE=1]pig [/SIZE] it, [SIZE=1]pork[/SIZE] I [SIZE=1]cholestorol [/SIZE] speak [SIZE=1]celery[/SIZE] like [SIZE=1]cottage[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]cheese [/SIZE] a [SIZE=1]tuna [/SIZE] fatty"[/QUOTE]

What might be an interesting question would be how would it have changed our initial impressions at the start of the book if we had known about Liz's size from the outset? Say the "confession" paragraph on p-79 had been the opening to the book. Would we have focused on that as a reason for Liz's loneliness? Would the idea of her loneliness at the beginning have been as potent had we known that she was a self-confessed "fatty"?

And just one last thing -
Glad you liked the question. I think it's always something that Coupland skirts pretty close too, though I think he always manages to retain the kernel of a character, and keep idiosyncracies etc consistent. Which parts did you feel Liz became a "cardboard cutout"? It'd be interesting to hear....
.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]-Has anybody read any other books with fat main characters? And I don't necessarily mean books ABOUT being fat, just books where the characters happen to be fat. Curiosity.[/QUOTE]

Oh, and before I go!

IMO the mother of all fat books = A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.

The main character in this, Ignatius J Reilly is not just fat - he's a disgusting, bloated behemoth spouting idiotic philosophies and judgements to all who wander past.

(somewhat different from our meek Liz!)

If you haven't read it, pick it up. It's a hilarious book.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]Does your fiance really cry in her sleep? That's horrifying! I mean, I've done my fair share of crying after "sleeping" with someone, but not while actually Asleep.[/QUOTE]

Well, she red the book and finished right before falling asleep, and she dreamt about it. She was making all this wierd noise in her sleep, I woke her up, she had tears in her eyes.

She really got attached. This was immediately after reading "A Million Little Pieces" and for the next few days, she was just blue. These books really got to her and she had to read some light-hearted books afterwards.

I guess that says something about these book club choices.

Wow, this thread really seems to be dying. Too much SPRING BREAK I suppose.

I don't know, though, something about this book. Had it not been written by Coupland, I don't know if I would have ever read it. It's pretty far out of the normal bounds of my reading, it seemed more like a book to read on a plane. I know, horrible cliche to say, but seriously. It was lighter, softer, warmer than all the books that I read, with the exception of Perrotta stuff. But even then, Perrotta books are much funnier.

I don't know, is anyone else feeling this?

[QUOTE=rico wonderboy]Wow, this thread really seems to be dying. Too much SPRING BREAK I suppose.

I don't know, though, something about this book. Had it not been written by Coupland, I don't know if I would have ever read it. It's pretty far out of the normal bounds of my reading, it seemed more like a book to read on a plane. I know, horrible cliche to say, but seriously. It was lighter, softer, warmer than all the books that I read, with the exception of Perrotta stuff. But even then, Perrotta books are much funnier.

I don't know, is anyone else feeling this?[/QUOTE]

Without wanting to disparage Moe's excellent choices, I don't think it's helped that ER is very recent novel. I don't know about you guys but it's only available in the UK in hardcover, and my local library doesn't stock it.

Doesn't bother me though, because my brilliant girlfriend bought it for me for my birfday - but I do wonder if it's been unavailable for a few people.

Anyway - I've been slack as shit keeping up my end of the discussion - but I agree with some of what you said above Rico.

That's kind of what I was getting at in the intial question about a change in style/content for Coupland. Is he growing up?

(As someone wrote in a thread in the main Book Club forum - "Isn't this just a book about a fat old woman?")

Personally, I really like the change, and I think it's been a long time coming. What is Coupland now - forty five? Nearly all of his novels involve that kind of hazy period around late twenties and early thirties where you're young enough to achieve anything and old enough to know you probably wont.

There's something braver, and more genuine, about taking such a seemingly uncompelling character and building a story around her. He's looking at lives of quiet desperation (rather than, for example, the alienated funky types of BE Ellis novels)

I can see why your girlfriend found it so affecting. I'd like to hear what a woman's perpective is on this book. He seemed to really try to get inside the mind of a woman and feel the "left on the shelf" mentality that seems to hit a lot of girls as they edge towards thirty and beyond.

Do you think you could get her to write a reaction on this thread? It'd be really good to her from someone other that us three males!

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Do you think you could get her to write a reaction on this thread? It'd be really good to her from someone other that us three males![/QUOTE]

I'll see what I can do. She's usually up for stuff like that.

Quick note, I didn't mean anything against Moe's choices, I was just thinking that this book may have been a turn off for some people, in reading it, and in commenting it, because it's a more foreign subject/character/writing style. I really enjoyed the book, and I agree with what you said about Coupland's maturity, there's older adult themes here, I definately had to read this book differently than I would most of my other's. A nice change of pace though.

Er..."Rico" asked me if I would be willing to post my thoughts about Eleanor Rigby so that you fellas can get a woman's perspective. This is Rico's fiance speaking. I feel like by using his screen name, I'm going to be mistaken for his female alter ego, but I guess it's all the same on the internet anyway.

Anyway, I didn't think that Eleanor Rigby was a "light read", although Rico had it wrong when he said that I found no hope in the ending. It's not that. I did see that the book had a happy ending, regardless of the fact that she was going to die. It was the rest of it that broke my heart.

I found the portrayal of lonliness and alienation in ER to be pretty dead on, actually. I don't think that I agree with Rico either, that Liz's loneliness was a choice. I think that Liz thought that she had very little to offer, which is why she was lonely. That may sound like a choice, but it sounds to me like the results of a lifetime of socialization in our culture. Not to go off on too much of a feminist rant, but women in our culture are still brought up to believe that our principle worth is found in our ability to please others in general, and men in particular. Liz is a "fat old woman" and from reading the book, you get the feeling that she has been a fat old woman her whole life, and what's worse, she is smart enough to know it but unable to stop it. I understood her lonliness because I felt like "There but for the grace of god go I, or any of us."

Then there is Jeremy. Jeremy comes along, and several things happen. First of all, he solves a mystery and another form of lonliness that has probably haunted her since she was 16. "What became of my baby?" It is not possible that if Liz were a real person, she would be the type that could give up a child and just never think of it again. She is far too intelligent and she has far too many empty evenings to not be thinking of it. Then, there is just the plain fact that his arrival in her life gives her life purpose, and takes away her lonliness.

Lastly, Jeremy is validation. Liz's life is not a total bust, because she has produced this magical man that has these amazing visions, and can sell anybody anything, and can sing songs backwards.

I knew that Jeremy was going to die. It was obvious long before she said it. Even still, it punched me in the stomach when he did actually die, because I liked Jeremy and because I knew that it left Liz in an even worse place than he was before he came. I don't know if I agree that it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all, because if you never loved at all, you wouldn't know what you are missing and you wouldn't grieve.

Just for the record, this book wasn't [I]all [/I] doom and gloom for me. I thought some parts of it were hilarious. I loved when Liz relates that her sister in law said that her hair looked like a toupee. I've been tumbling that little nugget around in my head and just waiting for the right moment to pull it out on someone. I thought that Jeremy's visions, and Liz's vision in the end were wonderfully lyric. And of course, the scene in the airport....comedy gold. And I like I said before, I did think that it had a happy ending. Yes, Liz is going to die, but before death there is going to be life, which is the important part.

Hi Rico’s female alter ego!

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with us.

It is good to hear a female perspective, partly because the book is written from a woman’s POV and partly because it did seem like this discussion was a little one-sided for a book specifically about a lonely lass...

Anyway – I thought what you wrote was insightful and very interesting.

[QUOTE]Anyway, I didn't think that Eleanor Rigby was a "light read", although Rico had it wrong when he said that I found no hope in the ending. It's not that. I did see that the book had a happy ending, regardless of the fact that she was going to die. It was the rest of it that broke my heart.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you about it not being a "light read".

I still think that, in a world where twisted drama, exaggerated characters, excessive depictions of drugs and violence sells books, Coupland's choice of main character and subject matter is brave and fascinating. Granted, he's an established writer - but in the world of "cult novels" you rarely hear from a voice such as Liz.

In some ways the ponderous, thoughtful pace of the book kinda clouds the fact that there is so much juicy drama going on. Even away from the themes and the relationships, there are dead transvestites, obsessive breaking and entering, meteorites, anti-terrorism units, radiation sickness, suspected rapes, long lost children, apocalyptic visions, etc etc etc....

[QUOTE]I found the portrayal of lonliness and alienation in ER to be pretty dead on, actually. I don't think that I agree with Rico either, that Liz's loneliness was a choice. I think that Liz thought that she had very little to offer, which is why she was lonely. That may sound like a choice, but it sounds to me like the results of a lifetime of socialization in our culture. Not to go off on too much of a feminist rant, but women in our culture are still brought up to believe that our principle worth is found in our ability to please others in general, and men in particular. Liz is a "fat old woman" and from reading the book, you get the feeling that she has been a fat old woman her whole life, and what's worse, she is smart enough to know it but unable to stop it. I understood her lonliness because I felt like "There but for the grace of god go I, or any of us."

Then there is Jeremy. Jeremy comes along, and several things happen. First of all, he solves a mystery and another form of lonliness that has probably haunted her since she was 16. "What became of my baby?" It is not possible that if Liz were a real person, she would be the type that could give up a child and just never think of it again. She is far too intelligent and she has far too many empty evenings to not be thinking of it. Then, there is just the plain fact that his arrival in her life gives her life purpose, and takes away her lonliness. [/QUOTE]

Thanks for such an honest and thoughtful analysis.

[QUOTE]Lastly, Jeremy is validation. Liz's life is not a total bust, because she has produced this magical man that has these amazing visions, and can sell anybody anything, and can sing songs backwards. [/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this. In a way, this is what I found most moving.

Have you read any other Coupland books? I thought that there was an underlying theme of hope that he touches on in nearly all of his other work. The lines:

[QUOTE]"...the farmers had lost their belief in the possibility of change"[/QUOTE]

and

[QUOTE]"Death without the possibility of changing the world is the same as life that never was"[/QUOTE]

Kind of summed up a lot of that for me. The feeling that age, loneliness and fear strip you of your ability to change, your ability to question the world and hope and work for a better future.

When Jeremy arrives, he embodies a lot of these qualities. He has the youthful vigour and charisma that, although Liz never had, she may have somewhere deep within her, wrapped in fear and habitual loneliness.

But like the last line suggests, Jeremy’s death would be as good as him never having lived if there wasn’t some hope in the people who he had touched and transformed.

Also - one last thing on this. There's a line that I loved so much I had to write it down that kind of made me think - yeh, that's how I feel about Liz and I hope she learns that of herself:

[QUOTE]
"Nobody is boring who is willing to tell the truth about himself....the things that make us ashamed are also the things that make us interesting"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Just for the record, this book wasn't [I]all [/I] doom and gloom for me. I thought some parts of it were hilarious. I loved when Liz relates that her sister in law said that her hair looked like a toupee. I've been tumbling that little nugget around in my head and just waiting for the right moment to pull it out on someone. I thought that Jeremy's visions, and Liz's vision in the end were wonderfully lyric. And of course, the scene in the airport....comedy gold. And I like I said before, I did think that it had a happy ending. Yes, Liz is going to die, but before death there is going to be life, which is the important part[/QUOTE]

Yeh, I thought there were some great lines and a few funny set-pieces. Liz's kind of wry, self-deprecating tone made it easy to both feel her pain and frustration, and laugh with her at some of the ridiculous aspects of her life and the lives of others. I found her to be an appealing, lively character - despite the fact that to the outside world she is dull, grey and deadened.

Thanks again for posting your thoughts. If you have anything else do add – go for it!

Cheers

Riddle (Paul!)

So I've been coaxed into posting. To be perfectly honest, I don't remember the book all that well because I read it almost three months ago. I loved it so much that I literally couldn't put it down, but unfortunately that doesn't mean I remember much of it. I didn't really put a lot of thought into it as I was reading, but I did find it entertaining, whatever that may mean. I really liked the bit where Liz's sister calls her on the phone and Jeremy answers it and the sister freaks out and decides to come over to Liz's apartment. And then from the conversation that follows:
[QUOTE]Leslie whispered, "What's his name?"
"Jeremy."
"Jeremy? No one our age is called Jeremy."
"He's not our age."[/QUOTE]
It's one of the parts that sticks out in my mind, but I looked it up anyway because my description of it was shit.

Anyway. I think Liz is totally belivable because she's got flaws, but they're not overly dramatized flaws. I can't really explain what I mean, but there are some characters in books that are basically [I]perfected[/I] versions of people and then they've got a few flaws and they're not something like nail-biting, they're something that makes the reader go "oh my [I]GOD[/I]!!!" and it's all dramatic and shit. I really don't know how to put it. It's like instead of a lot of small flaws that make the person human they've basically got one or two big flaws and the book is all about that and overcoming them and shit. Maybe this is me being cynical this morning. I don't know. What I'm saying, though, is that Liz is believable because her personality is made up of lots of small human flaws. And she worries about them. I like the fact that she sometimes dwells too much on things that are bothering her. Don't most people do that? Every once in a while something happens and people keep thinking about it despite the fact that it would be better if they just put it out of their minds because it's really not all that big of a deal. And, if I remember correctly, Liz does this sort of thing.

The thing I think is cool about Coupland's endings is that he doesn't make it totally clear what's going to happen next, after the writing stops. You know she's going to die, but you don't know when. And you know that she now has the guy that she met on the school trip, so her life isn't going to be all about the fact that she's going to die. Coupland doesn't resolve every single aspect of the world of his books. For example, with the whole "and they lived happily ever after" thing, there's always, "yeah, but what about ...." Coupland doesn't give the definitive "happily ever after" thing or the "and they got what they deserved" thing to [I]any[/I] of the characters in his books, so you're kind of wondering what will happen to [I]all[/I] of them and in a way it's kind of more satisfying that way.

And I love the term "cubicle farm." He doesn't use it just in Eleanor Rigby, but I still love it.

glad to see this thread revived a little...and a special guest appearance by rico wonderboy's girlfriend/fiancee/SO. such thoughtful response is always welcome in the OCBC!

anyway, i'd just like to "explain" my reasoning for choosing this book for march (not that you've asked nor disparaged my decision in any way!) and perhaps offer a little insight to all of the OCBC selections. if you notice some of the books are brand new, some are old, some have yet to be published. i'm thinking that a book like eleanor rigby is the topic of discussion for 3/05, but could very well carry conversation into 3/06; i.e. just because an OCBC discussion isn't "active" it doesn't mean the conversation is forever closed. so, when this book comes out in paperback, perhaps the discussion will pick up again. ya dig?

also, i chose this coupland book because it is so different from his other novels, and was hoping to get a little comparative discussion going...hint hint.

[QUOTE=Ballerina]So I've been coaxed into posting. To be perfectly honest, I don't remember the book all that well because I read it almost three months ago. I loved it so much that I literally couldn't put it down, but unfortunately that doesn't mean I remember much of it. I didn't really put a lot of thought into it as I was reading, but I did find it entertaining, whatever that may mean. I really liked the bit where Liz's sister calls her on the phone and Jeremy answers it and the sister freaks out and decides to come over to Liz's apartment. And then from the conversation that follows:

It's one of the parts that sticks out in my mind, but I looked it up anyway because my description of it was shit.

Anyway. I think Liz is totally belivable because she's got flaws, but they're not overly dramatized flaws. I can't really explain what I mean, but there are some characters in books that are basically [I]perfected[/I] versions of people and then they've got a few flaws and they're not something like nail-biting, they're something that makes the reader go "oh my [I]GOD[/I]!!!" and it's all dramatic and shit. I really don't know how to put it. It's like instead of a lot of small flaws that make the person human they've basically got one or two big flaws and the book is all about that and overcoming them and shit. Maybe this is me being cynical this morning. I don't know. What I'm saying, though, is that Liz is believable because her personality is made up of lots of small human flaws. And she worries about them. I like the fact that she sometimes dwells too much on things that are bothering her. Don't most people do that? Every once in a while something happens and people keep thinking about it despite the fact that it would be better if they just put it out of their minds because it's really not all that big of a deal. And, if I remember correctly, Liz does this sort of thing.

The thing I think is cool about Coupland's endings is that he doesn't make it totally clear what's going to happen next, after the writing stops. You know she's going to die, but you don't know when. And you know that she now has the guy that she met on the school trip, so her life isn't going to be all about the fact that she's going to die. Coupland doesn't resolve every single aspect of the world of his books. For example, with the whole "and they lived happily ever after" thing, there's always, "yeah, but what about ...." Coupland doesn't give the definitive "happily ever after" thing or the "and they got what they deserved" thing to [I]any[/I] of the characters in his books, so you're kind of wondering what will happen to [I]all[/I] of them and in a way it's kind of more satisfying that way.

And I love the term "cubicle farm." He doesn't use it just in Eleanor Rigby, but I still love it.[/QUOTE]

Hey Ballerina!

Thanks for joining the discussion - I knew you'd have something valuable to add...

I think you are spot on with the idea that Liz is all the more believable because of her flaws and, like a line I mentioned earlier - "nobody is boring who is willing to tell the truth about themselves".

Her flaws are really fascinating - I found her to be a main character that I enjoyed being with [I]because[/I] of her flaws - not in spite of them.

I also think what you said about Coupland leaving endings mysterious and open ended is dead right. He kind of forces you to think a litte and fill in some of the gaps yourself.

Did you think it was very different to his other books?

[QUOTE=moe.ron]glad to see this thread revived a little...and a special guest appearance by rico wonderboy's girlfriend/fiancee/SO. such thoughtful response is always welcome in the OCBC!

anyway, i'd just like to "explain" my reasoning for choosing this book for march (not that you've asked nor disparaged my decision in any way!) and perhaps offer a little insight to all of the OCBC selections. if you notice some of the books are brand new, some are old, some have yet to be published. i'm thinking that a book like eleanor rigby is the topic of discussion for 3/05, but could very well carry conversation into 3/06; i.e. just because an OCBC discussion isn't "active" it doesn't mean the conversation is forever closed. so, when this book comes out in paperback, perhaps the discussion will pick up again. ya dig? [/QUOTE]

Hey Moe,

Good to hear from you. I see what you're saying about the ongoing nature of the discussions - I didn't mean to whinge about Coupland being chosen for March - I just thought it might be part of the reason that there didn't seem to be many participants. That, and I've been told my questions are too wanky

[QUOTE]also, I chose this coupland book because it is so different from his other novels, and was hoping to get a little comparative discussion going...hint hint. ;)[/QUOTE]

I agree that this is a different direction for Coupland - but I'm not sure that it’s a big a change as I was expecting.

I think the most immediate change is the age of his main protagonist. Whereas just about every one of his previous books focused on detached, angsty, ironic 20-30 somethings, Liz is very different. Definitely middle aged, seemingly dull as dishwater, she’s no Astronaut, coma-seer, movie producer, Miss Wyoming, or survivor of a high school shoot out.

Yet she too has her exciting secrets, from the dead transvestite to (obviously) her wonderful long-lost son. She’s like a snapshot of what an early Coupland character could be like in fifteen years time.

Like Jason in Hey Nostradamus, Louie in Life After God, John Johnson in Miss Wyoming, Richard in Girlfriend… and so many other Coupland characters, Liz has fallen out of love with the world – or was never in love with the world to begin with. Liz looks forward to death – literally becoming soil, something that’s moist and alive but not her.

Then, hope arrives in an unexpected and exciting way – but in a similar manner to the way that damaged people find some kind of hope or redemption in his previous books.

There’s a line that says something like “the farmers just assumed that their children’s and grandchildren’s lives would just be exactly the same as theirs”. It reminded me in a roundabout way of the very end of GIAC where Coupland’s rallying cry is basically to wake the fuck up and question everything – do not take anything for granted.

I think he also reined in the more fantastical aspects of a lot of his previous work. Whereas in Girlfriend in a Coma you have the literal end of the world and an opening line of “Hi. I’m Jared, a ghost”, here the apocalyptic paranoia is a smattering of cryptic, disturbing visions. The paranormal isn’t included much more than the portentous Haley Bopp Comet signalling some kind of change in Liz’s life. Overall, it’s a bit more subdued.

Anyway – what do you think Moe?

It would be good to hear your reactions to the book. Fire away glorious mod-madam!

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp] Which parts did you feel Liz became a "cardboard cutout"? It'd be interesting to hear....
.[/QUOTE]
It took me forever to get back to you. Sorry. Just paging through, I guess parts like, "I sometimes wonder how big a clump you could make if you were to take all the creatures that ever lived...and smush them all into a big ball, a planet." (pg. 2) There were quite a few of these observations, and although I enjoyed them they seemed somewhat disconnected from the story. Maybe it's a method to show her lonely thought process? I think that these moments were also more thickly concentrated towards the beginning of the book, so maybe that's why I got the "mouthpiece" impression.

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]
Did you think it was very different to his other books?[/QUOTE]
Did I think the ending of the book was different, or did I think the book itself was different? I've only read two of his other books (I think), so I can't really say I'm much of an expert, but like I said, I've noticed that he ends the book without giving a definitive fate to any of the characters, so in that way Eleanor Rigby is very much like the other Coupland books I've read. As for the book itself, I really couldn't say. It's written in basically the same style as the others. I should elaborate on that. I mean, it's easy to read and it's almost poetic in the way it's written. I kind of ploughed through Eleanor Rigby and I loved all of it so much that I don't actually have any quotes written down, but I've got a couple from Shampoo Planet that kind of illustrate that poetic thing I was talking about.

[QUOTE=Shampoo Planet]"I open her bedroom window a smidgen, allowing in a fang of cold clear air and the yellow rustle of cottonwood leaves shimmying off the tree and down the street, into the unknown."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Shampoo Planet]"A seagull glides beside me while I stand by the ferry's deck railing. The gull cruises at the ferry's speed and appears motionless -- it just hovers there -- like a good idea."[/QUOTE]

I just think it's damn cool and can't really explain why. It's like the way I like T.S. Eliot's poetry despite the fact that I can't understand it, because it sounds cool.

Talking about the way Coupland's books are written brings me to my next point.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]It took me forever to get back to you. Sorry. Just paging through, I guess parts like, "I sometimes wonder how big a clump you could make if you were to take all the creatures that ever lived...and smush them all into a big ball, a planet." (pg. 2) There were quite a few of these observations, and although I enjoyed them they seemed somewhat disconnected from the story. Maybe it's a method to show her lonely thought process? I think that these moments were also more thickly concentrated towards the beginning of the book, so maybe that's why I got the "mouthpiece" impression.[/QUOTE]

I think those odd bits of observation are part of what makes Liz realistic. Haven't people ever said something in conversation with you that was completely random and unrelated to the topic of conversation, and said it just because it was something that has crossed their mind in the past and that they're thinking that since they are now in the presence of someone else they might as well share it and see if that particular thought has occurred to anyone else? Or haven't you ever done that sort of thing?

[QUOTE=Ballerina]
I think those odd bits of observation are part of what makes Liz realistic. Haven't people ever said something in conversation with you that was completely random and unrelated to the topic of conversation, and said it just because it was something that has crossed their mind in the past and that they're thinking that since they are now in the presence of someone else they might as well share it and see if that particular thought has occurred to anyone else? Or haven't you ever done that sort of thing?[/QUOTE]
No, I totally agree with you, and that's only partially due to the fact that I think you're female. Jokes (hilarious) aside, yeah, I think that most people have a thought process that works like this. The thing that makes it tough for me in this book is that I feel like Liz has too many that are too good. I think most people do have these thoughts, but I think they have one or two that are really good and original, not something based off of Jack Handy or something. Liz is filled with them. Maybe it just makes her an exceptional person, but I can't help but feel like she is a bit of a mouthpiece for bits Coupland might have had lying around somewhere.

I just finished the book and was blown away. Very moving book, loved it.

I don't feel like discussing or analyzing it right now, but I might post something later.

And in fact, I read the book without knowing it was the book club selection.

[url]http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/generalfiction/0,,1322844,00.html[/url]

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]No, I totally agree with you, and that's only partially due to the fact that I think you're female. Jokes (hilarious) aside, yeah, I think that most people have a thought process that works like this. The thing that makes it tough for me in this book is that I feel like Liz has too many that are too good. I think most people do have these thoughts, but I think they have one or two that are really good and original, not something based off of Jack Handy or something. Liz is filled with them. Maybe it just makes her an exceptional person, but I can't help but feel like she is a bit of a mouthpiece for bits Coupland might have had lying around somewhere.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think I get what you mean. Most of the time when I say random things like that people just look at me funny. But then again, there are those people who always seem to say the right thing at the right time and the rest of us wonder, how the fuck do they do that? I dunno.

You're probably right. There does seem to be a sort of theme running thorugh the story about marking the different and special. Like the singing backwards stuff and the visions Jeremy has. So I guess it's not really a book about ordinary people.
I wanted to ask what people thought about the backwards singing. Was it just a weird quirk, or was there something else going on with that whole thing?

[QUOTE=tomstrong83]You're probably right. There does seem to be a sort of theme running thorugh the story about marking the different and special. Like the singing backwards stuff and the visions Jeremy has. So I guess it's not really a book about ordinary people.
I wanted to ask what people thought about the backwards singing. Was it just a weird quirk, or was there something else going on with that whole thing?[/QUOTE]

I thought that the backward singing thing became a connection between Liz and Jeremy.

Jeremy is so charming and dazzling that Liz can hardly believe that this wonderful creation came from her loins.

Then they both share this remarkable, if bizarre, ability - it's like a bridge between them. Something unique and dazzling exists within Liz herself.

I also thought it might suggest that Liz had the potential to experience the same kind of visions that Jeremy had. It's like that's just a marker of how their strange and similar minds work.