Click By Kristopher Young - Sept. 07

Ordered myself a copy it got great reviews on amazon.Artwork on the back cover is beautiful.Split mind I guess.

Hey all - I'd like to thank PGoutis01 for setting up this book discussion and everyone else in this community. You guys rock.

I've been asked to lead the discussion here, though I'm not really sure quite what that means. I don't want to just ask questions. I'm far more interested in your questions, thoughts, and opinions. Though this discussion officially ends after September, if you discover this thread after that feel free to post - I'll check back now and again.

If you haven't read [I]Click[/I] yet, you may want to do so before reading too much further into this thread. [I]Click[/I] is fairly spoiler-proof, but due to the nature of the narrative I think there is a definite value to reading it free of preconceptions.

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One of the major challenges that [I]Click[/I]'s narrator faces is in regards to his perception of both self and his environment. As events spiral out of his control, he becomes unable to accurately assess his own sanity. All he knows for sure is that what he is experiencing is far outside the bounds of normality. If he trusts in his own perception, he knows he's exhibiting textbook paranoid schizophrenia, but if he doesn't trust in his own perception he's no better off. There are no clear boundaries in [I]Click[/I]'s structure because I wanted readers' minds to process the same limited and potentially unreliable information that the narrator is operating on. The lines between reality, dream, and hallucination are heavily blurred in an attempt to engage both reader and narrator in the same psychological dilemma.

As readers will draw their own lines and come to their own conclusions, this effectively leaves much of [I]Click[/I] up to interpretation. I do have my own interpretation (cough, instruction manual, cough), but I openly encourage alternate readings of the book. For example, while some readers believe the majority of events are actually happening to the narrator and that the glitches and loops are 'real', I've talked to others that believe most of the book to be the narrator's psychosis. Some read [I]Click[/I] more as memoir than as fiction. The question I'm most often asked about [I]Click[/I] is 'How much isn't fiction?'

So, to start off with a discussion question, I'd love to know your interpretation of the book. What's actually occurring to the narrator? What's not? What does the ending of [I]Click[/I] mean to you? I've heard some really wonderful explanations - for example, that the entire novel was a single iteration of a loop, or that the entire novel occurred during a few seconds of thought in the first chapter ala [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Occurrence_at_Owl_Creek_Bridge][I]An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge[/I][/URL]. Neither were my intention, but that does not make them incorrect.

What is your favorite chapter? Favorite line? Favorite dream/hallucination (and how did you interpret it)?

I was checking out some past discussions and think one of Steven Hall's questions in regards to his novel, [I]The Raw Shark Texts[/I], fits [I]Click[/I] perfectly (in fact, I had a similar question already written, but I like Steven's wording better): "Symmetry, doubles and reflections crop up again and again in the story, any theories as to why? It’d be fun to see how many examples people can spot of these too." To start this off, I'll provide an easy one: early on, the narrator in [I]Click[/I] catches someone sketching him. Later in the book, he begins to sketch the man he believes to be following him.

There's a lot more that could be discussed (for example, I've completely forgotten to mention his relationship), so please don't feel limited only to the ideas I brought up here. I'm actually very curious to see what all of you bring to the table. A lot of energy went into writing [I]Click[/I] and everything in there is there for a reason - there's stuff buried in there that I'm not sure anyone but me will ever notice... but I look forward to the day someone surprises me.

Feel free to answer any of the questions above or ignore them entirely to ask your own. I'm also up for questions about the writing or publishing process (which isn't exactly standard, thanks to [URL=http://www.anothersky.org]Another Sky Press[/URL]).

And finally: have you ever experienced anything similar to a loop?

Thanks again, everyone!

-kristopher

[QUOTE=Kristopher Young;1029541]

I was checking out some past discussions and think one of Steven Hall's questions in regards to his novel, [I]The Raw Shark Texts[/I], fits [I]Click[/I] perfectly (in fact, I had a similar question already written, but I like Steven's wording better): "Symmetry, doubles and reflections crop up again and again in the story, any theories as to why? It’d be fun to see how many examples people can spot of these too." To start this off, I'll provide an easy one: early on, the narrator in [I]Click[/I] catches someone sketching him. Later in the book, he begins to sketch the man he believes to be following him.
[/QUOTE]

I haven't finished [I]Click [/I]yet, but I read this question and couldn't help myself.
I had to write a thesis paper my last semester of college, and the class that was directing my paper was called "Literary Doubles." We spent the entire time talking about doubling in literature.
One thing that a good reflection, double, or whatever can do s to serve as a point of reference when we look at an unreliable narrator. Although we can't necessarily trust anything that happens in the book, these doublings help. For example, when the narrator in Click is sketching his stalker, it brings the stalker into a more realistic focus. The guy might be in his head, but after he's sketched he exists in at least some physical form.

[QUOTE=LECKIE;1029283]Ordered myself a copy it got great reviews on amazon.Artwork on the back cover is beautiful.Split mind I guess.[/QUOTE]

The cover art is by a good friend of mine, Jesse Reno. He's insanely talented.

While he was reading [I]Click[/I], he kept asking me if I had any ideas for the cover - and my response was always no, but that I trusted he'd figure something out. Soon after he finished the book he gave me a call to tell me he finished the cover... and damn, did he nail it.

Check out more of his work at [URL=http://www.jessereno.com]jessereno.com[/URL], you won't be disappointed.

Kristopher's comment on loops caught my eye as well. They seem to serve the same function in my brain as parentheses in a mathematical sentence -- they form a phrase, or loose component, out of the part of the story they enclose. So when the narrator begins to sketch the person he caught sketching him*, it puts skin on the event, gives it a boundary, and makes me tend to think of that period as a unit of the story arc. (Probably dangerous thinking in a story like this, but there's always the comfort that if you change your mind later and think of it with all new components, it'll almost certainly be just as interesting!)

Also, hi Kristopher, and thanks for the email letting me know to come here! I would have been devastated to miss it.

Last thing, I'd love to hear what anybody thinks about Kristopher's literary inconvention when it comes to initial caps. I'm neutral myself, as it seemed to work artistically but also seemed like it would have worked without it, but I've heard people come down very strongly on both the yay and nay sides of that sort of thing. For some reason I never seem to find that kind of nitpicking boring.

Ta everybody!
PD

*I wish I had another example at hand, but I'm all packed to move and suffering NO BOOK DISEASE, which is a dread condition indeed...damn these boxes!...and it's been a while since I read Click!, so I'll have to fish it out as soon as the chaos abates.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1029626]One thing that a good reflection, double, or whatever can do s to serve as a point of reference when we look at an unreliable narrator. Although we can't necessarily trust anything that happens in the book, these doublings help. For example, when the narrator in Click is sketching his stalker, it brings the stalker into a more realistic focus. The guy might be in his head, but after he's sketched he exists in at least some physical form.[/QUOTE]
I think you caught on to just what [I]Click [/I]is doing with its doubling. The entire novel deals with the protagonist's ability/condition to see, and perhaps control, events around him from all possible angles at once. What better way to convey the impact of this than with doubling? For example there is a passage early in the book (which I've spent 10 minutes trying to find and can't--help me out if you can) that is repeated almost word-for-word immediately following. This passage and its double convey quite powerfully the narrator's mental affliction, and the slight but significant differences between reality and perceived, or controlled, reality.

Whatever interpretation of the novel you ascribe to (can the protag really control his world or is there something mental going on?) the use of doubling and repetition serve to, just at Tomstrong said, establish reference points to keep the unreliable narrator from drifting too far.
_________________

On a completely different note, I'm on my third read through and came to a realization regarding the protag's romantic relationship that I want to toss out here. Originally, I didn't think much of the narrator's relationship with his on/off girlfriend. The woman appeared out of nowhere, the protag fell in love way too quickly, and was driven by a less-than-convincing obsession for this woman. But, I realized this morning that [I]Click [/I]has a whole lot of heart, and this seemingly melodramatic love relationship is the core of this heart. Let me explain:

[INDENT]The woman appears out of nowhere. This makes sense when you think of this relationship as just another "click" in the protag's life. He doesn't anticipate most of the "altering events" (people getting hit by cars seems to be a common one). They come into his life, they bend to his will, then the event ends. Simple. This is just what happens with the woman. Additionally, he tries again and again to love this woman. Are these instances of "fucked up love" just the narrator's own second, third, fourth "clicks"? Think about it, the woman never seems to remember any of the crazy things the narrator does. What woman would put up with so much? The kind of woman who's really only put up with "so much" once, that's what kind.[/INDENT]

Thoughts?

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1030955]They seem to serve the same function in my brain as parentheses in a mathematical sentence -- they form a phrase, or loose component, out of the part of the story they enclose. So when the narrator begins to sketch the person he caught sketching him*, it puts skin on the event, gives it a boundary, and makes me tend to think of that period as a unit of the story arc. [/QUOTE]
Great description. This makes great sense.

[QUOTE]Last thing, I'd love to hear what anybody thinks about Kristopher's literary inconvention when it comes to initial caps. [/QUOTE]
I'm also neutral in the case of [I]Click[/I]. However, I do have to admit to a bit of grammatical snobbery when authors do this sort of think in a post-modern, weird for the sake a weird sort of way. [I]Click[/I]'s protagonist thought this way, and considering the first person, stream-of-conscious style I can't imagine the story in any other format.

Usually, though, things like the lack of initial caps and dialog without quotation marks annoy me. A good example is (and I may get stoned for this) is Will Christopher Baer and The Cult's own Chuck Palahniuk. Aside from a few cases (Palahniuk's [I]Rant [/I]comes to mind) everything written by these authors would work so much better if quotation marks were used with dialog. I think of these marks as a convenience to the reader. If an author wants to portray a character in the ways that Baer and Palahniuk do I think more emphasis should be put on the descriptions and dialog itself.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1030955]
Last thing, I'd love to hear what anybody thinks about Kristopher's literary inconvention when it comes to initial caps. I'm neutral myself, as it seemed to work artistically but also seemed like it would have worked without it, but I've heard people come down very strongly on both the yay and nay sides of that sort of thing. For some reason I never seem to find that kind of nitpicking boring.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you in that I think it's a choice to be made, and it's an artistic one.
The book probably does work without the change in initial caps, but that's not necessarily an arguement against it, in my opinion. Martinis work without the olives, but that doesn't have to mean throw them out.
Lots of people come down hard on this sort of thing, but those people are just looking for something negative about a book that's easily pointed out and that really has nothing to do with the narrative. Lots of people will criticize Cormac Mccarthy's lack of punctuation, and that bothers me because I can't imagine reading an entire Mccarthy book and all I would have to say is something about commas.
I think this sort of thing becomes more and more acceptable with new forms of communication like texting and emailing becoming popular. Even in blogs the emphasis on punctuation and capitalization seems reduced.

I just bought this and look forward to joining in - really like the sound of [I]Click[/I]. I'll comment to you all in a couple of weeks after i've recieved the book through the mail and finished reading it!

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1029626]I haven't finished [I]Click [/I]yet, but I read this question and couldn't help myself.
I had to write a thesis paper my last semester of college, and the class that was directing my paper was called "Literary Doubles." We spent the entire time talking about doubling in literature.[/QUOTE]

I don't have a degree in literature. I'm not even sure that I've ever heard the term 'literary doubling' before - my formal knowledge of it begins and ends with this fascinating (if a bit academic) essay on the subject that I found a half hour ago - [URL=http://facta.junis.ni.ac.yu/facta/lal/lal2000/lal2000-05.pdf.]http://facta.junis.ni.ac.yu/facta/lal/lal2000/lal2000-05.pdf.[/URL]

This isn't to say there isn't doubling in [I]Click[/I], it's just that I didn't set out to use specific literary devices when I wrote [I]Click[/I].

I don't sit down to write anything specific - I just sit down and write, filling notebooks with scraps, phrases, paragraphs and sketches that I need to get out of my head. My words generally mirror my actual life - real events, real people, real occurrences, real dreams. If I'm heartbroken, so are my words - convert the pain into progress.

Eventually I start sorting everything, expanding, editing, deleting, combining. This line goes with that line. This page gets scrapped, but I might keep a sentence or two. For awhile, I had tons of pieces of paper, all cut up, arrows drawn this way and that, moving paragraphs to entirely different sections, mixing everything around. Most of the fiction seeps in as I glue everything together - I might flip who said or did what because it works better that way. I strongly believe all words are fiction (though all words are also very real and very powerful). We should write as if everything is fiction, but read as if everything is true.

[I]Click[/I] didn't really exist as an entity until I had about half of it already written. As the voices became distinct, I began to recognize characters and scenes. As the groupings grew in size, I began to recognize chapters. As the chapters grew in number, I began to recognize plot arcs. Somewhere during this process, I recognized [I]Click[/I]. It's during these stages that anything resembling doubling or symmetry really took form.

Case in point - There really was a guy on a subway that I caught drawing me, and I wrote about him while he did so. A month or two later, I wrote about the act of us sketching each other simultaneously. These pieces eventually splintered out into three separate parts in the book - the narrator being sketched (pg. 20), the narrator sketching another man he believes to be sketching him (pg. 57), and finally, the narrator endlessly sketching the man he believes to be following him (pg. 135).

There's quite a few different reasons for that trinity, and I'm amazed at the accuracy of the comments here. There's some other points too - the flow from passive (being drawn), to interactive (drawing each other), to control (drawing). Of course, the narrator tends to feel least sane when he's in control, hence the frenzied nature of the third part. I never thought of this as doubling (or tripling, grin) - it was more a sense of symmetry for me (III and II are both symmetrical), although I did seek to ground certain things through repetition.

Your quote is dead on:

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1029626] One thing that a good reflection, double, or whatever can do s to serve as a point of reference when we look at an unreliable narrator. Although we can't necessarily trust anything that happens in the book, these doublings help. For example, when the narrator in Click is sketching his stalker, it brings the stalker into a more realistic focus. The guy might be in his head, but after he's sketched he exists in at least some physical form.[/QUOTE]

Part of the goal with the symmetry of [I]Click[/I] was to ground past events. Elements that may have seemed almost out of place or throwaway (ie, the man sketching him) slowly get fleshed out with future events, in an attempt to give all parts past and future more weight.

It's also worth noting that while with the example of the sketching, all three can be sourced to the same real-life event, there are other symmetries in [I]Click[/I] that can't be. There are pieces written a year apart that found their meaning in each other - again and again, the dawning realization, 'so that's why I wrote that'.

Other reasons for symmetry worth considering:

-Psychological contagion - the narrator tends to pick up traits of people he meets.

-The possibility that events in the narrator's life echo both forward and backwards (note certain reflections on memory in [I]Click[/I]).

Whew, that response was longer than intended...

-kristopher

I'm gonna buy this cause dude, you're hot, plus i like the cover art.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1030955]Kristopher's comment on loops caught my eye as well. They seem to serve the same function in my brain as parentheses in a mathematical sentence[/QUOTE]

I think that's a good way of looking at it. I definitely mapped certain things out in exactly that manner during final editing stages.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1030955]Also, hi Kristopher, and thanks for the email letting me know to come here! I would have been devastated to miss it.[/QUOTE]

Hey! you rock, glad to see you here. For everyone else - Pure Doxyk and I started talking after she emailed me about [I]Click[/I]. She ended up interviewing for her website (which features all sorts of cool ruminations as well as a lot of incredibly cool info on polyphasic sleep that I find terribly interesting despite the fact that I'm an accomplished insomniac). Anyway, the interview is more about the principles of Another Sky Press than [I]Click [/I]- [URL=http://www.puredoxyk.com/index.php/2006/12/12/kristopher-young-too-cool-to-be-a-robot/]you can check it out here[/URL] (and check out the rest of the site too!)

kris - great thread, i'm still working on click, enjoying it on my lunch half-hours when i even get THOSE

if we talk to jesse about buying some art, any sort of "friend" or "patron" discount you can work for us? i love his work, but it's a LITTLE bit out of my range, especially the big stuff, but very cool

[QUOTE=thirstygerbil;1030967]I think you caught on to just what [I]Click [/I]is doing with its doubling. The entire novel deals with the protagonist's ability/condition to see, and perhaps control, events around him from all possible angles at once. What better way to convey the impact of this than with doubling? For example there is a passage early in the book (which I've spent 10 minutes trying to find and can't--help me out if you can) that is repeated almost word-for-word immediately following. This passage and its double convey quite powerfully the narrator's mental affliction, and the slight but significant differences between reality and perceived, or controlled, reality.[/QUOTE]

From pg. 7 of [I]Click[/I]
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[INDENT]i watch as the car smashes her. it isn’t the movies, it’s smacking a rag doll across the room, all broken bones as her face skids against asphalt, grinding into gore.

and then, just as suddenly, it’s gone. the crumpled body, the pooling blood, the trail of pulped skin, the car. all gone, and there she is again, stepping out between the two cars. and i watch as the car smashes her, and it isn’t the movies, it’s smacking a rag doll across the room, all broken bones as her face skids against asphalt, grinding into gore.

and there she is again, stepping out between the two cars. and i watch in revulsion again, again, never ending, i watch and i want to scream but i’m locked in the same repetition as everything else.

and she’s stepping out, only this time she must have caught a glimpse of the car out of the corner of her eye because she jumps back with this tiny little chirp of a scream as the car races past, oblivious to the future lost. the click was almost deafening to me, but no one else seemed to notice.[/INDENT]
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[QUOTE=thirstygerbil;1030967]
Whatever interpretation of the novel you ascribe to (can the protag really control his world or is there something mental going on?) the use of doubling and repetition serve to, just at Tomstrong said, establish reference points to keep the unreliable narrator from drifting too far.[/QUOTE]

It was a definite fear of mine during certain stages of the writing process that [I]Click[/I] would be so abstracted that it wouldn't make a lick of sense to anyone but me. I feared that it wouldn't have a cohesive narrative ("all ambition and no direction", pg. 105). Fortunately, those fears proved unfounded, as at this point it's clear to me that [I]Click[/I] does resonate with many readers (for which I'm very thankful). Point is, I definitely tried to anchor events in many different ways to, as you put it, establish reference points.

The passage quoted above is also the first loop presented to the reader as a loop. It's a secret little hope of mine that the passage will cause a moment of cognitive dissonance in readers, and that people will go back and reread the initial sentence, eyes flitting back and forth to compare the two to see if they are identical - and thus 'looping' the reader in a very tangible way and echoing the narrator's loop that's being read.

The actual first loop of the book is, depending on interpretation, within the first chapter - although at that point there is no way for the narrator or reader to know that as the narrator just thinks he beat the odds.

[QUOTE=thirstygerbil;1030967]
The woman appears out of nowhere. This makes sense when you think of this relationship as just another "click" in the protag's life. He doesn't anticipate most of the "altering events" (people getting hit by cars seems to be a common one). They come into his life, they bend to his will, then the event ends. Simple. This is just what happens with the woman. Additionally, he tries again and again to love this woman. Are these instances of "fucked up love" just the narrator's own second, third, fourth "clicks"? Think about it, the woman never seems to remember any of the crazy things the narrator does. What woman would put up with so much? The kind of woman who's really only put up with "so much" once, that's what kind.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

That's definitely a valid interpretation - he certainly fixes (or breaks) other things, often unknowingly.

As for appearing out of nowhere - he believes her to be the woman he saw almost hit by a car, but that doesn't make it so. One reader asked me if they were really a series of different women in his life, though that certainly would be evidence of a severe psychosis on his part if true.

Flipping it around, it's also possible she's suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (previously known as Multiple Personality Disorder). This would also possibly explain her memory loss and mood swings.

(This is getting very strange, trying to discuss numerous possibilities at once without ever really identifying my own - perhaps at the end of this month I'll lay out my own personal interpretation...)

-kristopher

[QUOTE=thirstygerbil;1030980]I'm also neutral in the case of [I]Click[/I]. However, I do have to admit to a bit of grammatical snobbery when authors do this sort of think in a post-modern, weird for the sake a weird sort of way. [I]Click[/I]'s protagonist thought this way, and considering the first person, stream-of-conscious style I can't imagine the story in any other format.[/QUOTE]

It was written lower case, and it looks absolutely alien to me capitalized. It wasn't right. You nailed it - this is how the narrator thinks.

This was especially apparent to me in regards to the word 'i' / 'I'. The word 'I' is declarative - I exist, I am. The narrator is suffering from a massive identity crisis... 'i' is much more appropriate.

My next novel will almost certainly be properly capped, but that's because it makes sense for it to be. [I]Click[/I], though, needed to be the way it was. I've only had a couple people complain - most people say they didn't even notice until they were a few chapters in, and most seem to understand why it's lowercase once they've read far enough in to get a sense of the narrator. There are purists who will criticize any deviation from the norm, be it grammar, punctuation, or narrative style. Interestingly, they didn't write this book, (i/I) did.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1031065]I agree with you in that I think it's a choice to be made, and it's an artistic one. The book probably does work without the change in initial caps, but that's not necessarily an arguement against it, in my opinion. Martinis work without the olives, but that doesn't have to mean throw them out.
Lots of people come down hard on this sort of thing, but those people are just looking for something negative about a book that's easily pointed out and that really has nothing to do with the narrative. Lots of people will criticize Cormac Mccarthy's lack of punctuation, and that bothers me because I can't imagine reading an entire Mccarthy book and all I would have to say is something about commas.
I think this sort of thing becomes more and more acceptable with new forms of communication like texting and emailing becoming popular. Even in blogs the emphasis on punctuation and capitalization seems reduced.[/QUOTE]

A couple things - first off, I just recently read my first McCarthy book - [I]The Road[/I]. It's a rocket to the sky, absolutely beautiful. His sentences breath in and out like the wind - and that's a direct result of his non-traditional sentence structure and grammar. Anyone who thinks grammatical rules (or any rules) need to be followed in fiction aren't looking at a book as art. I'm sorry, sir, but you wrote outside the lines.

Bringing it back to [I]Click[/I] - everything about [I]Click[/I] is part of [I]Click[/I]. The cover by Jesse is perfect. I wrote, ripped, and scanned all 98 chapter heads myself (it took forever). Capitalization, spacing... everything, even down to the non-traditional way in which it was published is part of the greater whole.

It saddens me that in this day and age few authors have any control over the book itself in terms of cover or layout. I'm thankful I did - and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I just received word that [URL=http://mickogrady.blogspot.com/2007_09_07_archive.html]another interview of me was just posted online today[/URL] - this one was primarily about [I]Click[/I].

It didn't start out as an interview - it started out with a guy named Mike Daily emailing me about [I]Click[/I]. We started talking, and he eventually turned the virtual recorder on and made it into a full on interview. He's posted everything, starting with my reply to his initial 'hello' email. This correspondence took place almost a year ago.

He asked a lot of fantastic questions, so if you're interested you should check it out. We get into a lot of stuff - the book read as a junkie love story (gun as needle), cool trivia like other potential names for [I]Click[/I], chapters in [I]Click[/I] viewed as 'tracks', insights into what the cover means to me, some rambling about zombies, and more.

Feel free to bring up anything in the interview here on this board.

Mike Grady is also Mick O'Grady - [URL=http://www.myspace.com/mickogrady]check them out here[/URL]. Check out the track Major Fiction and then go from there. And you should also check out his novel + 2cd project [I]Alarm[/I]. [URL=http://cdbaby.com/cd/mikedaily]Here's the link for it at the independent music distributor CD Baby[/URL], but you can also find it at Powell's and on Amazon, etc.

[URL=http://mickogrady.blogspot.com/2007_09_07_archive.html]
Here's the full interview.[/URL]

I'm also going to repost one part of the interview here, because I think it's important since I've been referring to the protagonist as 'narrator' so often and it relates to some of what we've been discussing.

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[I][B]Mike Daily:[/B] You used present tense to tell the story of Click. Tell me why you chose present over past, or future tense.
[/I]

[B]Kristopher:[/B]
The simple answer is that I used present tense for the narrator's voice because everything else rang false.

The more complex answer:

[I]Click[/I] is in present tense because the narrator isn't reflecting, he's experiencing. To that end, [I]Click[/I] is almost more of a thought pattern than it is a narration.

Narration implies filtering. We choose what to tell. We reflect, we edit ourselves. We become, in narration, what we want to be, or what we think we already are. I didn't want that. I wanted it raw, without the benefits of hindsight. Everything we experience affects us - not just the day to day, but dreams and hallucinations and random thoughts. The glimpses of unreal out of the corner of our eyes.

As such, that's my goal for the reader as well - to experience. I wanted the reader to be an active participant, not an observer.

With [I]Click[/I], the narrator is suffering from a severe disassociation from what most people might consider 'real'. His very sense of self is in question, and that abstracted sense of self is only being aggravated by the glitches he's experiencing. He's not sure what's real, and he recognizes the central issue at hand: if he believes in what he's experiencing, he'd be diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. But he also recognizes that if he doesn't believe in what he's experiencing, then he's not even himself, let alone sane.

There's an endless discussion in regards to art about the conflict between artistic vision and audience interpretation. I sought to remove that conflict - I fully acknowledge that [I]Click[/I] only exists where author and audience meet; that my intentions and motivations only go so far, that the individual reader's interpretation of [I]Click[/I] trumps my own.

It was my goal to have the reader experience the same questions the narrator is - as a participant, not an observer. And [I]Click [/I]is a completely different book based on how the individual reader chooses to answer them.

[QUOTE=Kristopher Young;1032140]From pg. 7 of [I]Click[/I]
---------------
[INDENT]i watch as the car smashes her. it isn’t the movies, it’s smacking a rag doll across the room, all broken bones as her face skids against asphalt, grinding into gore.

and then, just as suddenly, it’s gone. the crumpled body, the pooling blood, the trail of pulped skin, the car. all gone, and there she is again, stepping out between the two cars. and i watch as the car smashes her, and it isn’t the movies, it’s smacking a rag doll across the room, all broken bones as her face skids against asphalt, grinding into gore.

and there she is again, stepping out between the two cars. and i watch in revulsion again, again, never ending, i watch and i want to scream but i’m locked in the same repetition as everything else.

and she’s stepping out, only this time she must have caught a glimpse of the car out of the corner of her eye because she jumps back with this tiny little chirp of a scream as the car races past, oblivious to the future lost. the click was almost deafening to me, but no one else seemed to notice.[/INDENT]
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[/QUOTE]
That's the passage, thanks. Your intention came through perfectly. The first read definitely brought me back to the beginning, forcing a second read. More than any other passage in Click this metafictional section forced me to sympathize with the protagonist on quite an intimate level. I felt like I was tired, and I might be rereading the same sentence over and over; something the narrator experiences regularly.

[QUOTE]("all ambition and no direction", pg. 105)[/QUOTE]
I really like this line. It gives the frantic sense of the narrator's world with such brevity. I'm currently working on a novel which repeats a line similar in intent to this one ("all gumption with no rationale"). It was interesting to pick up on this line after having started my project.

Hello----I was on ANOTHER SKY PRESS web site and read about this book club.I hope to join in the discussion very soon.

So I was finally able to start reading this earlier today. I have a bunch of homework I'm going to try and finish tomorrow. But I'm also going to try and squeeze in reading a bunch of this book.

I'm having a little bit of a problem getting used to the whole way it's written. It's not bad. It's different. It's more like sitting inside a loner's head (which I sort of am) and just listening to him think... At least as of now. Also the way the dialogue is done is kind of difficult to pick up on. But I'm only 20 pages in right now.

[QUOTE=PGoutis01;1033477]

I'm having a little bit of a problem getting used to the whole way it's written. It's not bad. It's different. It's more like sitting inside a loner's head (which I sort of am)...[/QUOTE]

You know, I had the hardest time reading Hunter S. Thompson because the voice in his writing reminded me so much of my dad. It's not like I'm horribly bitter towards my dad, but it was distracting in a way because every other sentence was like, "Christ, that sounds like something Dad would say."
Sometimes those familiar voices can be hard to deal with.

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1033492]You know, I had the hardest time reading Hunter S. Thompson because the voice in his writing reminded me so much of my dad. It's not like I'm horribly bitter towards my dad, but it was distracting in a way because every other sentence was like, "Christ, that sounds like something Dad would say."
Sometimes those familiar voices can be hard to deal with.[/QUOTE]

It's funny you said that. I just had Generation of Swine in my hands and I was flipping through it. I've decided to start working on my writing more and for some reason that always means rereading Jesus' Son, flipping through some HST, and basically reading a lot of shorter stories.

Hey Kristopher,

Thanks for the mail, a book swap would be cool. I'll pm you addresses and stuff.
Wanted to post on here though because this thread is already touching some of the stuff I'm really interested in. Would it be okay with you to sit in?

Can't wait to check out the book.

S

[QUOTE=tomstrong83;1033492]You know, I had the hardest time reading Hunter S. Thompson because the voice in his writing reminded me so much of my dad. It's not like I'm horribly bitter towards my dad, but it was distracting in a way because every other sentence was like, "Christ, that sounds like something Dad would say."
Sometimes those familiar voices can be hard to deal with.[/QUOTE]

You know, now that you say that, I think the voice in Click! reminds me of my brother, or an idealized version of him. He's mentally ill, and has psychotic episodes, and it's always been something of a mystery in my family what it must be like to "be him" when he's hallucinating and whatnot. Not only does the narrator here reflect his personality somewhat, but I think it/he also comforts me, in a way -- I get to think that maybe my brother isn't *just* sick...

...Or maybe a book like this gives us all a shred of hope that we, and everyone we know, are more than *just* damaged in our ways--?

PD

i just ordered my copy. i'm already impressed by another sky press and the donation system. More media publishing houses need to start thinking this way.

It's funny--or maybe it's not---I really relate to how Click is written---I'm one of those people who think they see most of their thoughts--until--I see more--it hard to explain.I LOVE this nameless man -----He is so real -----so painfully honest---if I knew someone that well I would probably forgive them of almost anything. This book reminds me of Pattie Smith's song "Piss Factory" in how it resonates something so fine in this mans truth.

Morey - aw, shucks.

Wickerkat - Jesse's a rad cat, but I can't promise any discounts. It definitely wouldn't hurt to mention that you discovered him via [I]Click[/I] and talking to me, but no guarantees it will get you anywhere.

Steven - Of course you can sit in; I wish I knew about your thread when it was going on - [I]The Raw Sharks Texts[/I] sounds brilliant.

Amden - Thanks for the kind words. I wasn't familiar with Patti Smith's song Piss Factory, but I just read the lyrics -- it's powerful as hell. I'm glad that [I]Click[/I]'s narrator felt real and honest to you - there's a lot of real and honest stuff in there. Sometimes it feels awkward to hide a lot of it under the banner of fiction.

I'm going to go ahead and say "I found my favorite line," even though I know darn well that I'm going to change my mind as I go through a re-read the rest.

"if we could really sell our souls to the devil the world wouldn't be full of so many ordinary people."

AMEN, brother!

One of my favorite lines and I'm sure to have more as well.

"shouldn't being who i am come easily? why do i feel like it's a constant struggle?"

[QUOTE=wickerkat;1032105]
if we talk to jesse about buying some art, any sort of "friend" or "patron" discount you can work for us? i love his work, but it's a LITTLE bit out of my range, especially the big stuff, but very cool :D[/QUOTE]
At risk of being a thread hijacker the new Another Sky Press art book "Invision" was recently released. Got my copy today. Jesse Reno doesn't disappoint. In addition I think I may have found a few reasons to believe once again in the power of visual fine arts, namely [URL=http://www.kendra-binney.com]Kendra Binney[/URL], [URL=http://www.artpdx.com/ryan-bodiroga]Ryan Bodiroga[/URL], and [URL=http://www.tomkeating-art.blogspot.com]Tom Keating[/URL].

Now back [I]Click[/I].

I'm wondering what role everyone things interchangability is playing in Click. The first time reading it, I noticed the interchangability of women -- how there seems like many, at times, and at other times, like they're all the same woman, but in any case her features shift and blur until there doesn't seem like much difference either way. It almost seems to be referring to Woman, as an archetype, at least in the narrator's mind, more so than a particular woman or string of women.

This time through, I'm noticing the interchangability of neuroses -- the gun, the notebooks, the narcolepsy and lost time, the hallucinations -- with the possible exception of the "clicks", they seem to all mean the same thing, or be the same thing, or maybe to be Neurosis as an archetype again.

If the author is using these blurring, interchangeable characteristics of things as a way to refer to their archetypes on one level while still keeping the details a relevant part of the story, well, I'm impressed at the mechanic and I think it works pretty well, all told. But that may not be what's going on at all. Maybe all that's supposed to be indicated by the shifting details that near-anonymize the women, the streets, and the mental quirks of the narrator is to underline his instability, or the world's. In which case it also works.

Maybe it's just a cheap trick to get us all to read too much into the story...!

PD

Hey all, just to let you guys know, there's another September Book Club featuring [I]Click[/I] over at Oxyfication.net. It's a different format - they discuss and then ask a set of questions.

Their discussion (contains some fantastic insights!), probably should be read first:
[URL=http://oxyfication.net/forum/showthread.php?t=408]http://oxyfication.net/forum/showthread.php?t=408[/URL]

My responses to their first round of questions:
[URL=http://oxyfication.net/forum/showthread.php?t=410]http://oxyfication.net/forum/showthread.php?t=410[/URL]

All sorts of various things covered - from the significance of the sixes, to interpretations of the ending, and more.

I'll be active on both sites - this is more a FYI for interested parties than anything else.

Feel free to bring up points made there, here, and vice versa.

-kristopher

The initial caps debate - i like them, in this novel. Usually they'd annoy me though. In Click i feel they keep with the flowing present tense first person stream of consciousness way of writing it. They seem to make the book a tenser and quicker read, you feel the possible outcomes before every click are as fast as the text on the page, and vice versa. It just fits.

It was strange, the first third of the novel or so i found it slightly difficult to fully embrace where it was headed, and had this slight feeling of being isolated from the character - who in a lot of regards reminds me of myself - which climaxed with the pages on hunting for the food and gorging on the children (pages 84-91). I didnt so much get that bit, although as an episode for the protaganist it did make sense i guess. After that however, for the rest of the novel i felt at one with the narrator and understood him much better. Infact, i was unable to put the book down from then until i'd finished it.

Throughout most the novel i wanted to believe that the Clicks were happening and the narrator wasnt deluded. However, when he meets the mentor i felt this was just one in a series of possibilities, the one his mind - not reality - had chosen to tell him, to explain his behaviour to the more rational side of him.

In fleeing the killers hunting him down i was beginning to feel more on his side again, that i believed his episodes to be the truth. Then with the motel scene with the news bulletin where he hears he's been framed for the murder (page 146) - that of the unnamed female love interest - i became sure he was in the grip of his psychosis and he was lying to himself about the reasons for fleeing what would infact be a crime scene.

Then, just to confuse things (and here's the point i'm sure i read too much into the book and lose the plot) he escapes the police and hitches a ride convieniently in a passing car which doesnt normally pick up hitchers (page 148). Too handy, too easy - it made me think that, just saying it wasnt his psychosis and what was happening to him with the clicks was reality, then i choose to see the driver as perhaps another of those who had the gift - a renegade on the opposite side to those hunting down the gifted, perhaps there was an opposing army, who looked out for each other, that moment just a click in his own mind to bring the protagonist to safety. The comment that the driver reminded him of his grandfather (page 148) too, could the talent be genetic and could his own grandfather be saving him with a very well executed click slicing time barriers?

After all, as our protagonist begins to rewind time further towards the end of the novel (page 159), it becomes concievable that more talented people with the gift could be effective saviours of others in their elite club. As i say, i think i read too much into that bit.

More onto a trivia aspect, i noticed the words "another sky" appear together (page 157) - is this deliberate, a nod to Another Sky Press? Just curious?

Aside from all my above conjecture, i'd like to congratulate and thank Kristopher for writing such a fascinating novel and the time he's spending discussing it on here. Cheers man, i'll be sure to check out your future work, and i'm already planning to order a couple more copies of Click - with donations for inscriptions - in the near future. It's a great and noble thing you're doing selling the novel as you are, and perhaps it's the way forward for lesser established authors. I'd like to think so at least.

Simon

[QUOTE=Simon57;1039397]However, when he meets the mentor i felt this was just one in a series of possibilities, the one his mind - not reality - had chosen to tell him, to explain his behaviour to the more rational side of him.
[/QUOTE]
Very cool take on the mentor. I asked a question over at Oxyfication.net about the mentor as well. Kristopher had a lot of good things to say. Specifically to your comment above, Simon, seeing it this way buries even deeper the distinction between sanity and insanity. Is the narrator truly insane and the mentor is a character created because of such, or is the narrator sane enough to know that he is insane and simply cannot help it, so he creates this character as a way to stay as balanced as possible? Not sure.

[QUOTE]Too handy, too easy - it made me think that, just saying it wasnt his psychosis and what was happening to him with the clicks was reality, then i choose to see the driver as perhaps another of those who had the gift - a renegade on the opposite side to those hunting down the gifted, perhaps there was an opposing army, who looked out for each other, that moment just a click in his own mind to bring the protagonist to safety. The comment that the driver reminded him of his grandfather (page 148) too, could the talent be genetic and could his own grandfather be saving him with a very well executed click slicing time barriers?[/QUOTE] Another great idea, as if the driver had been searching for the narrator for years, failing for years, and this "coincidence" is just the driver 'clicking' his way to the present. This adds a new dimension, too, as the narrator used his abilities to save lives, but the driver (and possibly the rest of the "good guys") could have resorted to using the abilities for personal gain, I.e, winning the lotto, stock market purchases, etc.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1036928]I'm wondering what role everyone things interchangability is playing in Click. The first time reading it, I noticed the interchangability of women -- how there seems like many, at times, and at other times, like they're all the same woman, but in any case her features shift and blur until there doesn't seem like much difference either way. It almost seems to be referring to Woman, as an archetype, at least in the narrator's mind, more so than a particular woman or string of women.

This time through, I'm noticing the interchangability of neuroses -- the gun, the notebooks, the narcolepsy and lost time, the hallucinations -- with the possible exception of the "clicks", they seem to all mean the same thing, or be the same thing, or maybe to be Neurosis as an archetype again.

If the author is using these blurring, interchangeable characteristics of things as a way to refer to their archetypes on one level while still keeping the details a relevant part of the story, well, I'm impressed at the mechanic and I think it works pretty well, all told. But that may not be what's going on at all. Maybe all that's supposed to be indicated by the shifting details that near-anonymize the women, the streets, and the mental quirks of the narrator is to underline his instability, or the world's. In which case it also works.

Maybe it's just a cheap trick to get us all to read too much into the story...!

PD[/QUOTE]

There's definitely a theme of interchangeability within Click, and I think you're right in thinking that it's true of everything, not just women. It makes sense that you saw it first with women - after all, chapters such as 'litany of changes' (pg. 33) and 'too strong' (pg. 40) begin to establish the theme, referencing interchangeable people (faces) and interchangeable individuality (clothing). [Tangent - there's also an early appearance of the mentor archetype in 'Litany of Changes'...]

Everything is always washing away from the narrator and there's nothing he can hold on to. Places ('illusion of destination', pg. 143), days, memories, who said what, even what is said versus what is thought all become interchangeable within the novel. Even the loops themselves mirror this as they evolve from repetition (which is, in a way, grounding) to an near infinity of possibility: "i see so much that i'm losing track of what's actually happening, lost in possibilities. my memory, gorged on countless nows, is ceasing to be able to distinguish between any of them..." (pg. 121)

In that regard, Click is partially about identity, especially in regards to how our sense of identity correlates to our perceived environment (and vice versa). In Click, without anything to hold on to, the narrator can never clearly identify himself. He discusses this early on, referring to a nagging tooth pain as a way in which he's able to recognize himself: "no matter where i am or what’s become of me, i’ll still have that dull ache. it’s a constant, letting everything else i experience define itself as now." (pg. 56) At this point, he's so broken that he identifies (at least, philosophically) as little more than a cracked tooth. Considering pulling his own teeth out on page 93 might then be considered almost suicidal (representing an irreclaimable loss of identity), a response to his inability/failure to actually kill himself playing Russian Roulette. Of course, he doesn't actually go through with it, just as he never lets himself die (assuming he can control it).

-kristopher

Simon57- I really appreciated that you recounted the journey you took through Click. It was wonderful hearing how the narrative weaved in and out for you. Thank you. Some comments follow:

[QUOTE=Simon57;1039397]
After all, as our protagonist begins to rewind time further towards the end of the novel (page 159), it becomes concievable that more talented people with the gift could be effective saviours of others in their elite club. As i say, i think i read too much into that bit.[/QUOTE]

On the other hand, maybe you didn't. Grin.

[QUOTE=Simon57;1039397]
More onto a trivia aspect, i noticed the words "another sky" appear together (page 157) - is this deliberate, a nod to Another Sky Press? Just curious?[/QUOTE]

Nice catch. The nod is actually in the other direction - Another Sky Press was named after that line. More trivia - the phrase "another sky" in that sentence is also a very subtle/hidden/future example of when words begin to 'fall apart and come together' in the final chapter. In other words (heh), it begins to happen earlier in the book than it is made clear (just as with the loops). In all cases the phrase can be replaced with its source phrase/word and the sentence will retain meaning.

[QUOTE=Simon57;1039397]
Aside from all my above conjecture, i'd like to congratulate and thank Kristopher for writing such a fascinating novel and the time he's spending discussing it on here. Cheers man, i'll be sure to check out your future work, and i'm already planning to order a couple more copies of Click - with donations for inscriptions - in the near future. It's a great and noble thing you're doing selling the novel as you are, and perhaps it's the way forward for lesser established authors. I'd like to think so at least.

Simon[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

-kristopher

I finally had time to sit down and finish Click today. School...

Anyway - my initial impression [I]was [/I]a little off. I found that I got used to the whole no caps and also the stream of conscious (for lack of a better term) writing.

I also had trouble with the dreams mixing reality. But I guess it was a way to draw us [the reader] into the narrator's world.

I really dug the last - I'd say - 40 pages or so. When the whole thing came about where they were trying to stop him and he was like a super hero with his powers. That really made the story worth it and it satisfied me. While reading the beginning - I think that was one of my problems. I was saying to myself, "This is good writing - but where is this ever going to go?" I thought it was cool though.

Now I guess we are supposed to figure out if it all [I]was [/I]in his head or if it really was happening?
Forgive me - I did not go through yet and read all the other post. I will try to do that tomorrow or the next day when I have a little more time.

I spent some time reading and digesting the posts that were written both at this site and at Oxyfication Book Club. I felt the thought and time that went into these insights and also Kristopher's comments were very interesting.
Kristopher--what is the time line of Click----moments----weeks-----months?
I'd like to bring up a thread about Click that was started at Oxyfication The chapter (on display) pg117 speaks of a memory--the first time he saw death and how real that chapter felt. About a window into his history. For me this chapter as well as chapters ( infant son) pg52---(going back) pg 65---( their starkness) pg 79-- make me feel safe. Behind all the looping-- there is sanity---clarity as he speaks at times about some pretty harsh memories.(going back) is especially tender--one of my favorite chapters--haven't we all been there? I agree that that the chapter (on display) is an anchor along with these other ones.

I read the book as if the looping were really happening because the dream sequences feel different--like your in a different place but then chapters like (eyes and cockroaches) where he feels really off also have a different vibe. I don't think he's delusional during the looping. To me the looping was very real and he learned to become very clear----I'm glad I believed in him.
oh yea--he lived

I would like to add that as a huge fan of Hubert Selby, Jr., I was thrilled when I read [I]Click [/I] . These two authors share a very similar style, especially in the context of caps and punctuation. Reading three pages in a Selby book can often be one run-on sentence, so that style does take some getting used to.

Personally, I enjoy it because once you do get used to it, it does seem so much more raw and engaging than a traditional narrative. Thoughts flow and start taking on a life of their own. It's a very powerful experience to read a book like this.

Congrats to Kristopher for a great discussion (told you I'd make it here before September ended, heh).

FUCK I just typed out a long, intricate response and the computer ate it.
I feel so guilty for only posting now, but what with computer problems, school, etc., it's been impossible to do earlier.
First, I love the style of this book.. even if the narrator may be crazy, which I don't think he is, his train of thought is so clear, honest and poetic that I wish I could think this way more often. Every once in a while, things take on a lucidity that reminds me a lot of Click.
I found it mildly puzzling but interesting how the guy who gives him a ride says that the only thing that's perfect in this world is the sky, yet a few pages later the narrator talks about creating another sky.
I like how his dreams change from being operated on/killed; to seeing himself dead, trying to stop it and realizng he can't; to being undead and killing others as his waking life changes from being drawn to drawing someone who's drawing him to drawing others.
Picking a favourite line is way too hard, since there were so many that were perfect. My favourite chapter was cockraoches and eyes, and I really liked the wordplay at the very end.
So, do we ever find out the author's explanation of this book, the way it was originally meant to be interpreted?
There's more things that I wanted to talk about, but I'm tired and angry and have forgotten them.
To wrap this up, there's this quote I found on the net that I found myself thinking of a few times while reading Click:
The best moments in reading are when you come across something — a thought, a feeling, a way of looking at things — which you had thought special and particular to you. Now here it is, set down by someone else, a person you have never met, someone even who is long dead. And it is as if a hand has come out and taken yours.

—Hector, a teacher of the old school, in The History Boys

[QUOTE=AMDEN;1045658]
Kristopher--what is the time line of Click----moments----weeks-----months?[/QUOTE]

As I'm sure I wrote somewhere in this thread, [I]Click[/I] is very much about time and related concepts - about the Now, memory, future, cause and effect. As such, I'm not really sure there is a direct answer to your question. I think if we assume most of the events actually occur, then we're probably looking at [I]Click[/I] covering the span of months, or a couple years at the very most.

On the other hand, one reader asked me if the entire book happened in a single moment, during the first chapter, before he blew his brains out (making the first and last chapter bookends of the same moment).

---

Memory is unreliable - disconnected recall tied together more by cognitive association than by sequence of events. In many ways, the same can be said of the narrator's concept of Now. This can be reduced to a symptom or causal factor of his insanity, or regarded as a possible stepping stone to his ability - without being limited by sequential thinking and concepts such as Cause and Effect, he was able to step outside them.

[QUOTE=AMDEN;1045658]To me the looping was very real and he learned to become very clear----I'm glad I believed in him.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I prefer the reading in which the loops happen because it provides promise and hope in our own lives... or at least, mine. Thinking of myself as insane doesn't get me anywhere. Believing in myself does.

-kristopher

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]FUCK I just typed out a long, intricate response and the computer ate it.[/QUOTE]

ouch.

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]I feel so guilty for only posting now, but what with computer problems, school, etc., it's been impossible to do earlier.
First, I love the style of this book.. even if the narrator may be crazy, which I don't think he is, his train of thought is so clear, honest and poetic that I wish I could think this way more often. Every once in a while, things take on a lucidity that reminds me a lot of Click.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much!

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]
I found it mildly puzzling but interesting how the guy who gives him a ride says that the only thing that's perfect in this world is the sky, yet a few pages later the narrator talks about creating another sky.[/QUOTE]

Great catch - he's definitely referring back to the old man's sky. But the reference here is more symbolic - he's not talking about replacing the current sky, but rather, everything else (for lack of a better way to put it).

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]
Picking a favourite line is way too hard, since there were so many that were perfect. My favourite chapter was cockraoches and eyes, and I really liked the wordplay at the very end.[/QUOTE]

A lot of people really like that chapter. And thanks.

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]
So, do we ever find out the author's explanation of this book, the way it was originally meant to be interpreted?[/QUOTE]

The book means many things to me, but Christine (the love of my life) recently described it to a friend as a love story to her. Given that she fell in love with me while reading an early handmade copy of [I]Click[/I], I think that it's an apt description. It certainly made it worth writing, in retrospect.

I think I just dodged the question.

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1047959]
To wrap this up, there's this quote I found on the net that I found myself thinking of a few times while reading Click:
The best moments in reading are when you come across something — a thought, a feeling, a way of looking at things — which you had thought special and particular to you. Now here it is, set down by someone else, a person you have never met, someone even who is long dead. And it is as if a hand has come out and taken yours.
—Hector, a teacher of the old school, in The History Boys[/QUOTE]

You just made my week. Thank you so much for that.

kristopher

Hey everyone -

September ended while I wasn't looking. Thank you all for having me here, and a special thanks to everyone who took part.

That said, just because September is over doesn't mean this discussion needs to stop on a dime, feel free keep posting if you want, and I'll respond in kind. Also - you can always write me directly at kristopher AT anothersky DOT org.

... and don't forget to support independent literature!

All the best,
Kristopher

EDITED TO ADD:

I realized that saying 'support independent literature' doesn't really say enough. I don't just mean buy it. Hell, borrow it from a friend or read it for free at the library. The important part is that if you love it, tell your friends, or write reviews in your zine or somewhere online if that's your thing. Get the word out. To that end, you guys here are already doing a kick-ass job - thank you for hosting this discussion, and supporting other authors like Jeremy Robert Johnson ( [I]Angel Dust Apocalypse[/I]) and Steven Hall ([I]The Raw Shark Texts[/I]). You all rocket to the moon. Keep it up.

In other news - earlier this morning, Radiohead released their latest album in digital form for... whatever price you want (including free!). As anyone that has read [I]Click[/I] knows, I think that's the cat's meow. [URL=http://anothersky.org]Another Sky Press[/URL] has been doing this sort of thing for a couple years now ([URL=http://www.anothersky.org/in-print/click-kristopher-young/]with [I]Click[/I], for example[/URL]), but Radiohead is guaranteed to get the concept front page press. And that's just wonderful.

Hey, I almost let this group go without getting (and giving) one of the best parts: Recommendations!!

Obviously I want Kristopher's (the two he gave were great and went straight on my list, but come on, man, you're a pro; cough up the goods! More, more!) -- But everyone else's would be great too! What's your answer to "If you liked Click, you might like ___________?"

...Um, I'm finding it hard to give my own recommendations, because Click is kind of an aberration for me. I read it because a friend tipped me off to Another Sky, and Kristopher was such a nice guy about explaining the whole concept (I'm kind of crazy into IP law), that, I'll confess, at first, reading it was kind of a "gesture". (Buying it was not. I'm proof that Another Sky's model works: I read it online and HAD to have it!) But besides Chuck Palahniuk (ironically), I don't read much in the way of gritty, hyper-reality stuff; I'm more of a scifi/slipstream/philosophy-history-religion-physics and nonfiction nut. And recommending "Survivor" to this group is probably a little pointless, heh. (Though I totally do.)

Let's say this, though -- as a metaphysics junkie, I adored Click's unabashed making-out with the nature of Reality as a way to drive the plot, as well as the whole Life-As-We-Know-It ending. If you like those things as well, you might like some of my other favorites:
The Schroedinger's Cat Trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson;
Aristoi by Walter Jon Williams;
Burning Chrome (collection of short stories) by William Gibson;
Borges and I by Jorge Luis Borges

...Hmm, wish I could think of more, but oh well, what I've got is better than nothing (or should I say...better than a poke with a sharp stick???
:pokey: )

Thanks everyone for a great discussion, and thanks Kristopher for a great book AND a great example for future authors to grow on. Peace!

I would have recommended Borges, but it looks like you already did, though I would say anything by him is a no-fail perfect choice.

If you haven't read House of Leaves by Mark Mark Z. Danielewski definitely do it. It seems like it would be right for you (Borgesian meta-fiction abounds). Also, the recently book club-ed Raw Shark Texts has similar Borgesian elements to it.

Those are two that come to mind right now, though I'm sure I'll have a "that one too" moment before the night is up.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1048451]
Let's say this, though -- as a metaphysics junkie, I adored Click's unabashed making-out with the nature of Reality as a way to drive the plot, as well as the whole Life-As-We-Know-It ending.[/quote]

This is probably my favorite description of [I]Click[/I], ever.

[QUOTE=Pure Doxyk;1048451]
Hey, I almost let this group go without getting (and giving) one of the best parts: Recommendations!!

Obviously I want Kristopher's (the two he gave were great and went straight on my list, but come on, man, you're a pro; cough up the goods! More, more!) -- But everyone else's would be great too! What's your answer to "If you liked Click, you might like ___________?"[/quote]

Like you, I find it hard to give my own recommendations - mostly because since I'm the author it seems like I'm comparing my work to others, and that feels a little off.

Instead I'm going to list some books that people who dug [I]Click[/I] have told me I should check out, for one reason or another. Here are my favorites:

[I]Dhalgren [/I] - Samuel R. Delany
Haven't read it yet, but look forward to it.

[I]Blindness [/I] - Jose Saramago
A reader recommended this one to me, and after reading it I immediately picked up everything else I could find by him.

Hubert Selby, Jr.
As soon as my love finished reading [I]Click[/I], she told me to read him. I'm glad she did.

Charles Bukowski
I've heard this more than once, and while I dig his work I'm not sure I see the connection.

[I]Ubik[/I] - Philip K. Dick
I hear this a lot too - I've only read a few of his short stories (but I've seen many of his movies).

[I]Nadja[/I] - Andre Breton
I haven't read any French Surrealism yet, but quite a few people who dig [I]Click[/I] tell me I should. This one's on top of the pile.

Haruki Murakami
I've actually read [I]The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle[/I] and love it (and highly recommend it), but don't really see the connection.

[I]The Stars My Destination[/I] - Alfred Bester
Many moons ago, Roger Williams (an author I met online because he also put his book online for 'free') reviewed [I]Click[/I] on the Another Sky Press message boards. [URL=http://www.anothersky.org/forum/index.php?topic=9.0]He brought up [I]TSMD[/I] as a possible influence and we discussed it in depth[/URL]. I don't think I would have ever realized this on my own, but I think he's right. Highly recommended.

Hunter S. Thompson
I've since read [I]Fear and Loathing[/I] - fantastic.

-----

I've had the chance to meet (online or in real life) many authors since [I]Click[/I] was released. I've read many of the books mentioned below, but not all (the never-ending to-read pile...). Many have little in common with [I]Click[/I], but they're all rad people and I highly recommend checking each of them out, deciding if they sound like something you'd be into, and if so, supporting them.

In no particular order:

[I]Digging the Vein[/I] - Tony O'Neill
[I]Angel Dust Apocalypse[/I] - Jeremy Robert Johnson
[I]The Greatest Show on Earth[/I] - Daniel Scott Buck
[I]Alarm[/I] - Mike Daily
[I]Oscar Caliber Gun[/I] - Henry Baum
[I]The Raw Shark Texts[/I] - Steven Hall
[I]The Fighter[/I] - Craig Davidson
Carlton Mellick III (I've only read [I]The Menstruating Mall[/I] so far)
[I]The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect[/I] - Roger Williams
[I]Brave Men Run[/I] - Matthew Wayne Selznick
[I]In My Skin[/I] - Kate Holden
[I]Chemical Gardens[/I] - Gina Ranalli

I'm sure I'm forgetting people/books... forgive me.

-kristopher

Kristopher, check out Craig Clevenger if you haven't already.

[QUOTE=thirstygerbil;1049070]I would have recommended Borges, but it looks like you already did, though I would say anything by him is a no-fail perfect choice.

If you haven't read House of Leaves by Mark Mark Z. Danielewski definitely do it. It seems like it would be right for you (Borgesian meta-fiction abounds). Also, the recently book club-ed Raw Shark Texts has similar Borgesian elements to it.

Those are two that come to mind right now, though I'm sure I'll have a "that one too" moment before the night is up.[/QUOTE]

I'm halfway done [I]House of Leaves[/I]. Love it. And [I]The Raw Shark Texts[/I] is sitting next to my bed.

I've never read Borges but have added that, and the three other books that Pure DoxyK mentioned, to my pile. I have read some RAW ([I]The Illuminatus Trilogy[/I] and others) but not the Cat trilogy. I've only read [I]Neuromancer[/I] by Gibson, and had never heard of [I]Aristoi[/I] before. (Thanks for the recommendations, Pure DoxyK!)

-kristopher

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1053338]Kristopher, check out Craig Clevenger if you haven't already.[/QUOTE]

I haven't, but he's on my radar. Which one should I start with?

-kristopher

[QUOTE=Kristopher Young;1053342]I haven't, but he's on my radar. Which one should I start with?

-kristopher[/QUOTE]

I'm currently two thirds of the way through The Contortionists Handbook by Craig Clevenger. It's really great, so i'd recommend that.

Judging by press / amazon reviews, it's his best too.

[QUOTE=Kristopher Young;1053340]
I've never read Borges but have added that[/QUOTE]
Borges is the king of meta-fictional narrative, and after reading House of Leaves then going to Borges I think you'll see where Mark Z. Danielewski was influenced by Borges (Danielewski even quotes Borges in a few places in House of Leaves). The university study standard Borges stories are [URL=http://www.cybergrain.com/remediality/borges.pdf]"The Garden of Forking Paths"[/URL] and [URL=http://www.coldbacon.com/writing/borges-quixote.html]"Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote"[/URL].

I don't think that Borges's work and Click are similar, but considering meta-fiction was brought up earlier I went off on a bit of a tangent. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Simon57]I'm currently two thirds of the way through The Contortionists Handbook by Craig Clevenger. It's really great, so i'd recommend that.

Judging by press / amazon reviews, it's his best too.[/QUOTE]
The Contortionist's Handbook is probably the more engaging novel, but if I had to choose which one would be more similar to Click it would easily be Dermaphoria, if only for the blurred definition of reality that permeates the novel. Both are great works, however.