Rehab

In your opinion, how much of addiction is hereditary? Can a person who comes from a family history with no addiction acclimate themself (for lack of a better term) to chemical dependency and how likely do you think that is to happen?

Do you see the same addictive nature in sexual compulsion as in drug or alcohol dependency?

In a day and age when people talk as openly (at least here in the Northwest) about their preference in anti-depressants as they do about their choice of shoes, what effect do you see a Prozac Nation mentality having on the time-honored tradition of turning to street drugs to self-medicate?

Genetics i don't know, my father was an alcoholic but neither of my siblings are or ever were addicts. My opinion is that a lot of theories about addiction are propagated because they make it easier on the addict if he can believe he's not responsable. I was told hush hush style by one counseler that the disease concept of alcoholism was invented so that treatment centers could get government funding, but i digress uh. I don't know shit about sex addiction, and as far as anti-d's go well i was on some about 5 years ago and i'd up my script to enhance whatever side effect was happening, like they made me tired so when i wanted to sleep i'd take more, its just a mind set, look at Courtney love if you're gonna self medicate you'll use whatevers at hand. Doctors love giving out the shit. I talked to this guy for ten minutes-he didn't even look at me-and he scripted me Librium, Prozac, and pamolar. i don't even suffer from depression...I'm really against the shit but thats a whole other rant. Good questions.

What video games are preferred among the attention-whorish society of prescription drugs?

That is not a rehab question nimrod but i'll bend it and tell you video games, cell phones and R rated movies were not allowed in any of the rehabs i was in. Good day.

A friend I know got a prescription for some anxiety medication, he didn't even go in to see the doctor, he didn't even TALK to the doctor - his mom called for him because he was stuck at work.

Anyway. Even though this isn't my thread - I have experienced the hereditary side of addiction. It could be genes and it also could be environment....

My grandpa was an alcoholic, my uncle a drug addict/alcoholic/religious addict, his two sons are addicted to drugs and cigarettes, my mom consciously avoids drugs and alcohol, but gets "addicted" to other things (food sometimes, games, craft stuff - she'll get on kicks) And I'm the same way to all different kinds of things. The only drug related thing was lortabs. Yeah I know, not a big deal - but it was scary. I was/am mentally addicted to them, my body does nothing when I stop taking them.

My idea on it, from looking at different stories is that "addiction" may be hereditary, but the thing a person is addicted to doesn't seem to matter. I'm only comparing my family to my boyfriends family, so it's a small sample, but still.

Alright, no one's even asked about rehab, so I will. .

I'm only familar w/ the most immediate physical interventions (drugs for withdrawal- benzo's, phenobarb, methadone, etc.) but what happens once you get to rehab? What schpiel do they give you? Are there different philosophies for different rehabs? What are the rules, the routine? What do you go through physically/emotionally? What's lacking?

Most rehabs are base on the aa twelve step stuff, you always have one week where you can have no outside contact meaning no phone calls really and you get assigned a 'big brother' to show you around, it can be confusing, you're handed a schedule, your assigned to a counceler and a group, these are the people you'll have group therapy with uh its actually boring writing this but i'll try to give you the nuts and bolts if I leave anything out let me know. I was in only two rehabs that were coed and I'll talk about them later. Anyway the average rehab is 90% guys that have been sentenced there by the courts, and are fake co-operating some actually get it but still to my understanding there's only a 3% average success rate nationwide. The morning routine is always 'meditation' which consists of what i alwaya refered to as the 'inmates' reading from aa type they aren't exactly prayer books just little daily meditations. Then you have some exercize thing that I'd call the 'circle jerk' cause you stand in a circle. Then't be breakfast and depending on the place group or a didactic/class. (I forgot you also would have a morning chore and if you were new it'd always be toilets). Some places you'd have lunch at 11 then go to a noon aa, just depending on the convinience. afternoon might be a study period or group, the worst was this place where we had to sit and pretend to study for 2 hours straight. You might be called out for one on one counseling, you could never go to your room untill lights out but for a half for nap before dinner. (i skipped they're were periods where you could take a shower usually before breakfast or after dinner). After dinner would be getting ready for another aa, after that would be free time until bedtime also snacks which is why you get fat in rehab, eating before bed. Really the worst thing in being in those kinds of rehabs was being around the idiot jail guys, sometimes I was there from jail other times on my own but i don't have the mentality for one I never thought of myself as a victim, and i never indulged in these petty battles that would go on, the acting out its just ecchh. I was always pretty level headed and i'd find two or three compadres, but I was always there as the result of a major downward spiral and would be extremely despondant for the first week or so. I'll write about the two coed places later, the last one was successfull, (until my recent 'off the wagon and on the town' episode).

did you make any lasting frienships while in rehab?

in a nutshell, what are the twelve steps? your personal, descriptive titles for them, or what the other rehab people call them amongst themselves, may be more interesting and useful than the ones they put in books etc.

thanks.

[QUOTE=snuffy]did you make any lasting frienships while in rehab?[/QUOTE]Not lasting I've usually gotten close to two or three guys and that pretty much peters out after rehab although it is an intense experience for some they have breakthroughs they cry and all, so if by chance you run into em somewhere after its like dude oh dude, man! Thing is what with being in so many I'm hard pressed to place them, I am still friends with this guy who lives in my town i sort of was responsable for him staying where we were although i 'graduated' 2 weeks after he came in, I saw the fear on his face and I knew he was there on his own so i took him aside and said "listen just hold on, you can always leave tomorrow or the next day, but i'm going to explain to you how i did this" and i did and he stayed but he's back using now. He has his own stories, he was in a catholic rehab in Bosnia and one in Montana where they had to hike for days in waist high snow to prepare their '4th step'; thats basically where you write down all the shit of your life.

[QUOTE=meatthinker]in a nutshell, what are the twelve steps? your personal, descriptive titles for them, or what the other rehab people call them amongst themselves, may be more interesting and useful than the ones they put in books etc.

thanks.[/QUOTE]I actually-even after all those rehabs-can't recite them I'll get back to this, i have a big book around somewhere and i'll translate.

[QUOTE=morey]I've been in 7 alcohol/drug treatment centers and although i can only speak from my own experience if you want to know anything ask away.[/QUOTE]

Did you go in voluntarily or by court/parental order or a mixture?

Do you believe you have a real problem, or that the world has a problem with you?

Do you find you substitute one addictive behavior for another?

What's the limit of denial? I've heard some pretty extraordinary tales of it, but never from the standpoint of the addict, always from someone preaching against whatever the addiction was to.

Court order, family pressure and the last time on my own out of desperation. My drinking and drug use changed in my early twenties, (as in I couldn't stop till I ran out or the bar closed), and i knew right off I was an alcoholic/addict but I didn't care. My heroes had always been junkies and fringe characters. Its my problem not the worlds and no I never substituted if you mean food or sex. I was never in denial.

how did all this start? especially the alcohol-thing, how did it start and when did you realize that there's a problem?

[QUOTE=evie.leavesofgrass]how did all this start? especially the alcohol-thing, how did it start and when did you realize that there's a problem?[/QUOTE]
If you're asking Morey, you'll be waiting a while. He was permabanned a while back. I didn't witness the offending posts, but apparently he just decided to see how far he could push things. I think Meatthinker says in touch with him.

Thread locked because the starter of it is permabanned.

Thread reopened by Morey's request.

Welcome back Morey. Do you have any new insights to offer in this area of expertise?

Well Its been a year and a half since I've been in one, but ask away.

[QUOTE=morey]Well Its been a year and a half since I've been in one, but ask away.[/QUOTE]

I dont' know, but may be being 'permabanned' had to do with falling off the wagon?

Lay it on, tell us what you can. Keep in mind, a thread in 'areas of expertise' means tell us something we couldn't have 'googled,' at least with little effort....

Well I was banned for 2 weeks before I got permabanned and I'd been so addicted to this place that for sure I didn't know what to do with the down time and henceforth got trashed. Get specific though cause my life cannot be googled.

Okay...

Do you believe you have a real problem, or that the world has a problem with you?

Do you find you substitute one addictive behavior for another?

What's the limit of denial? I've heard some pretty extraordinary tales of it, but never from the standpoint of the addict, always from someone preaching against whatever the addiction was to.

I realize I asked some of this in a previous post, but was hoping you'd give me a legit answer this time...

how do you feel about the 12 steps?
i was sent to a juvenile version of in-patient re-hab for a summer when i was 16 ( it wasn't fun, although very educational.) i have always considered myself an athiest and so i couldn't bring myself to get past step 1. my counsolur told assured me i had a higher power, if not god then something else, but everyone i respect as higher then me is on drugs already. i know the program is fairly old, my question is do you think the 12 steps should be reviesed to be more politcaly correct and less religous, or do you think they are perfect as is? if i don't believe in god is the program just a waste of my time?
also how do you feel about a program that i got wind of that claims they can treat your addiction and eventualy get you healthy enough to drink recreationaly once again without ( falling off the wagon.) do you think that's wishful thinking? or realistic at all?

treatment for me was sorta worthless expect the knowledge i obtained, at that point in my life i hadn't come close to hiting bottom, surley a man that has been threw so much treatment knows what it is to finally lose it all. What is that like? can one ever fully recover from letting it all go? is something peremtley lost? can time heal that injury? or are you just perementley fucked and doomed forever to battle a horrible carving for self destruction and escape from reality?

finally do you agree that once you are a drug addict you are always a drug addict. do you just take the program as is, like divine word? or do you select out what is logical to you.

Okay...Chix;

Do you believe you have a real problem, or that the world has a problem with you? [B]You know I did already answer this stuff, and once again NO I don't think the world has a problem with me, I don't even know what that means. I have a problem with drugs and alcohol, in that once I sart using I can't stop.[/B]
Do you find you substitute one addictive behavior for another?[B] Well seeings how I became addicted to the internet I suppose so.[/B]What's the limit of denial? I've heard some pretty extraordinary tales of it, but never from the standpoint of the addict, always from someone preaching against whatever the addiction was to. [B]Denial comes in all shapes and forms, i have no interest in judging wether other people are addicts or if they're in denial; I'm not. I don't get this question either really, what do you mean the limits of denial? I don't see any limits on human behavior, people will go as far as they[/B] [B]think they need to, or can get away with[/B].I realize I asked some of this in a previous post, but was hoping you'd give me a legit answer this time [B]What's that mean Legit? You're kind of insulting you know.[/B]

Sober I'll get back with you, you bring up some good stuff.

Do you happen to know anything about Hazelton in Minnesota? It has been strongly suggest that someone I know go there.

[QUOTE=Thag]Do you happen to know anything about Hazelton in Minnesota? It has been strongly suggest that someone I know go there.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I almost went there, its like the premier rehab in the country and most other rehabs use they're literature.

[QUOTE=morey]Yeah I almost went there, its like the premier rehab in the country and most other rehabs use they're literature.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, my fucking therapist is all, "And could I visit you if you went there?" No wonder. What a bitch.

(if that makes any sense) (is it about ME or is it about HER)

[QUOTE=morey][B]What's that mean Legit? You're kind of insulting you know.[/B][/QUOTE]

No offense intended, Morey, but this is the 'areas of expertise' area of the 'research forum.' I felt like the answer I'd gotten before was flippant and hollow or I wouldn't have asked again.

I'm not judging you in terms of your addiction, I have a character in my novel who battles it and I'm always looking for things in my own life and in others' that can inform the narrative to make it truer to life and more compelling. For me, while I have alcoholic tendencies, caffeine and cigarettes have been bigger compulsions. But I've noticed that I tend to substitute one compulsion for another, and I don't think I'm alone. If I 'invested' the money I spent on smokes in the stock market in the 10 years or so since I quit supporting the tobacco industry, I'd probably be a wealthy man, but I've spent that money many times over on replacement addicitons. The only gain is that the replacements aren't as destructive to my health.

In 'Clean & Sober' the Michael Keaton character asks his sponsor why he eats sweets so extravagantly, and the answer is substitution. I thought that rang true, but I wanted to know, for my own writing, what some other answers are, so that I can come up with something that resembles being original.

Father Luke answered a lot of questions about the DT's, something I've known a couple of others to go through. But most people who have been through them won't talk about it, and since I haven't, I don't want to be talking out of my ass when I send Nelson into them.

And 'legit' is a term I picked up in my first career of choice, as a jazz musician. In that context, it refers to classical music, sight reading, and other conservatory skills that some jazz musicians don't have. It is insulting, to use your word, to jazz, one of the great art forms of the 20th Century, to distinguish between 'jazz' and 'legit,' but it's a jazz musician's terminology, so it's a self inflicted insult in that context.

All I meant was did you start this thread for the hell of it or to really teach us something about addiction and rehab?

I'm not a teacher just a relayer of my own experience, and I answered your questions. I can tell you alot about withdrawal and delirium, but if you wanna know about degrees and denial, google it cause Its not interesting to me, and the truth is in the last couple of rehabs I had to look past whether guys were lying to me or to them selves and except them at face value...for my own good. On second thought here's where denial comes into play for me; I can quite easily convince myself that I can go out for one night knowing full well that it'll turn into week and I'll end up physically ill, wet-brained and spiritually dead. Right now my saving grace is that I can follow that initial though all the way thru to the end.

[QUOTE=Thag]Yeah, my fucking therapist is all, "And could I visit you if you went there?" No wonder. What a bitch.

(if that makes any sense) (is it about ME or is it about HER)[/QUOTE] Why does he/she want to visit you there? and anyway I believe that they have a moratorium on outside contact. If you want to find out about Hazeldon though, you should google it. You live in Grand Haven I see, I'm in Traverse City.

[QUOTE=soberstoner]how do you feel about the 12 steps?
i was sent to a juvenile version of in-patient re-hab for a summer when i was 16 ( it wasn't fun, although very educational.) i have always considered myself an athiest and so i couldn't bring myself to get past step 1. my counsolur told assured me i had a higher power, if not god then something else, but everyone i respect as higher then me is on drugs already. i know the program is fairly old, my question is do you think the 12 steps should be reviesed to be more politcaly correct and less religous, or do you think they are perfect as is? if i don't believe in god is the program just a waste of my time?
also how do you feel about a program that i got wind of that claims they can treat your addiction and eventualy get you healthy enough to drink recreationaly once again without ( falling off the wagon.) do you think that's wishful thinking? or realistic at all?

treatment for me was sorta worthless expect the knowledge i obtained, at that point in my life i hadn't come close to hiting bottom, surley a man that has been threw so much treatment knows what it is to finally lose it all. What is that like? can one ever fully recover from letting it all go? is something peremtley lost? can time heal that injury? or are you just perementley fucked and doomed forever to battle a horrible carving for self destruction and escape from reality?

finally do you agree that once you are a drug addict you are always a drug addict. do you just take the program as is, like divine word? or do you select out what is logical to you.[/QUOTE] I don't know what to tell you about the 12 steps, I don't really work that program but then again I've been in rehab 8 times, Its basically fundamentalist christianity and now its being used as a tool of the courts which is dead wrong. I'm not atheist but I grew up without religion, in some rehabs they'll tell you anything can be a higher power and at aa/na they'll tell you that the people around the tables are your higher power, and there is some truth in that; the one thing I do know is that without a spiritual awareness and acknowledgement of your own connection to the world, you can't beat addiction and as far as controlled use that's impossible for me and yes I know that this will always be.
As far as losing it all, I never put value in things really so I never lost as far as material shit went...well thats not true I blew alot of money that I won't get again. The biggest loss was time, time when I couldv'e been pursuing dreams and goals but instead was living this life of chaos and drama that really amounts to nothing.
The only way I came around to any sort of god concept was by studying A Course in MIracles where god and other religous terms are used in a psychological context. If your like me you don't have blind faith and you have to understand why things work before you believe in them, I need proof and this way of thinking makes getting sober waaay harder.
I don't crave destruction anymore I crave peace but I do have to battle old thinking to have it.

Do you believe that addiction is something that you're born with -- something that's just part of your personality?

[QUOTE=RandomThought]Do you believe that addiction is something that you're born with -- something that's just part of your personality?[/QUOTE] Hey baby! Well they wanna tell you its genetic but I think its a combination of that, warped thought process, spiritual void, emotional fuckedupedness so let me see, I know that my physical reaction to drugs and alcohol is different than normal people but I also know that my view of the world and of myself created a huge hole that had to be filled with something/anything. I don't know if that answers your question or not.

Your post of "junkies are hot" in Smartazboy's "goodbye" thread prompted me to ask, do people try to hook up or fuck while in rehab often or is it hard to do? Did you ever find yourself in that situation and if so, does it make the process harder because of extra distractions?

[QUOTE=Undertow]Your post of "junkies are hot" in Smartazboy's "goodbye" thread prompted me to ask, do people try to hook up or fuck while in rehab often or is it hard to do? Did you ever find yourself in that situation and if so, does it make the process harder because of extra distractions?[/QUOTE]Yeah well I was being a smartass about junkies being hot you know-but yeah people try to hook up, (and this answers one of chix questions too), and they use sex as a replacement drug. Only two of the rehabs I was in were co-ed, and at the one in the desert where there were 300 residents, having sex of any kind was the number one reason for dismissal. This was a huge place with cabins, a walking trail around the perimiter, outdoor bathrooms etc. so some people got away with it. the other co-ed rehab was a small facility and as far as I know that wasn't going on. The reason they don't want you having sex is the distraction from what you're there for, and really the rule of thumb is don't get in any kind of relationship for the first year. And no I never had sex in rehab.