Perpetrator posing as a Cop.

I'll admit, I hate cops, but I view you as a cool poster first and a cop second.

I'll start off the questions by asking, have you been a dispatcher since the beginning?

[QUOTE=Undertow]I'll admit, I hate cops, but I view you as a cool poster first and a cop second.

I'll start off the questions by asking, have you been a dispatcher since the beginning?[/QUOTE]
I have been a dispatcher since the beginning. I applied to become a patrolman and placed high enough on a list of approximately 45 to qualify to be sent to the police academy about a year ago, actually. I was training and being schooled at the Illinois Police Academy (which is one of the best in the country but is now shut down due to lack of funds, go figure) located in Springfield,IL. I developed breathing problems that caused me to gasp to save my life. Later I found out the closing up of my breathing passages was caused by allergies I didn't know I ever had. The school could not take me on as a liability and was basically kicked out.
I am not a typical 911 dispatcher though, that only takes calls and gives them out to coppers. My job is a little deeper. I am not in a huge call center so I actually know all the cops that I give calls and take dispositions from. I also have to maintain report information department to department messages (in refference to warrants, subject inquiries, stolen vehicle hits, what have you). My job is kind of a do ten things at once kida gig. But I like it and like the town I work for.

I think cops are pretty cool. Most of it is due to the fact that I do not create cause to get into trouble anymore, and when I did, I didnt get caught.
So, Ive never had a problem with them, no negative views really. I guess it just depends on where you live if the cops are cool or not. I guess cops would either be one way or the other depending on the area to which the crime rates are high or low.
Rookie cops tend to take things too seriously or not seriously enough, as in ego. I used to live above a cop bar for a while, and every night when I came home from work about 12:30 a.m, they would make sure I got up to my apartment ok, and watched out for me. They would always tell me juicy news, and I got to pet their dogs.
They would even fuck around sometimes, gettin' the bull horns out and calling for one of their jackass friends in the bar. Making it seem like it was a hold up with their lights goin' and all the speakers. It was pretty funny. But hard to tell if anything ever was really going down. But hardly anything did. You got the occasion spousal fist fights from next door and the guy jacking someones car driving forty down a one way lane.
Yea, I'm rambling.

[QUOTE=Minuet]I think cops are pretty cool. Most of it is due to the fact that I do not create cause to get into trouble anymore, and when I did, I didnt get caught.
So, Ive never had a problem with them, no negative views really. I guess it just depends on where you live if the cops are cool or not. I guess cops would either be one way or the other depending on the area to which the crime rates are high or low.
Rookie cops tend to take things too seriously or not seriously enough, as in ego. I live above a cop bar for a while and every night when I came home from work about 12:30 a.m, they would make sure I got up to my apartment ok, and watched out for me. They would always tell me juicy news, and I got to pet their dogs.
They would even fuck around sometimes, gettin' the bull horns out and calling for one of their jackass friends in the bar. Making it seem like it was a hold up with their lights goin' and all the speakers. It was pretty funny. But hard to tell if anything ever was really going down. But hardly anything did. You got the occasion spousal fist fights from next door and the guy jacking someones car driving forty down a one way lane.
Yea, I'm rambling.[/QUOTE]
Thats the type of department I work for. If you where to see any of these guys out, especially when they are boozing, you would never take them to be coppers. As you mentioned, I think people have a negative view of them because they have had a negative experience involving the police. WHere I work its the pieces of crap that always complain about police harrassment. But its also the same people that are always getting inot trouble, committing crimes, and being called about in refernce to one or the two. Its sad when we arrest a person and I already know their personal information.

cops are just like any other profession

take how many people you work with, say 100 just for shits and giggles
out of those 100 people you work with if say 20 of them are assholes thats a pretty good indication of the area you live in how much asshole-ish the cops are as well

on a side note, this saturday nights episode of "COPS" will feature Cincinnati's very own boys in blue

[QUOTE=Minuet]I think cops are pretty cool. Most of it is due to the fact that I do not create cause to get into trouble anymore, and when I did, I didnt get caught.
So, Ive never had a problem with them, no negative views really. I guess it just depends on where you live if the cops are cool or not. I guess cops would either be one way or the other depending on the area to which the crime rates are high or low.
Rookie cops tend to take things too seriously or not seriously enough, as in ego. I used to live above a cop bar for a while, and every night when I came home from work about 12:30 a.m, they would make sure I got up to my apartment ok, and watched out for me. They would always tell me juicy news, and I got to pet their dogs.
They would even fuck around sometimes, gettin' the bull horns out and calling for one of their jackass friends in the bar. Making it seem like it was a hold up with their lights goin' and all the speakers. It was pretty funny. But hard to tell if anything ever was really going down. But hardly anything did. You got the occasion spousal fist fights from next door and the guy jacking someones car driving forty down a one way lane.
Yea, I'm rambling.[/QUOTE]

I should clarify: I've had some run-ins with them before, but not enough to merit hating [I]all[/I] cops. Hate's a strong word, I really mean "dislike." My dislike for them stems from politics behind their actions, not just "oh man, they ticketed me so they suck." Chicago city cops are actually kind of cool. Very good and helpful with directions when I need them.

One of my good friends is a cop. His dad's a retired cop and his dads dad is too. Im sure his [I]dads[/I] dads dad was as well. and so on.
[I]Anyways[/I], I had a hard time getting that out and it was completely unnecessary, and now I can not remember what the mother hell it I had that originating in thought.
And so, [I]godamn[/I] it seems 3 a.m. But holy mother it isnt.
When I remember what I was going to say, I will get back to you. I'll spare you the elevator music.

[QUOTE=Undertow]I should clarify: I've had some run-ins with them before, but not enough to merit hating [I]all[/I] cops. Hate's a strong word, I really mean "dislike." My dislike for them stems from politics behind their actions, not just "oh man, they ticketed me so they suck." Chicago city cops are actually kind of cool. Very good and helpful with directions when I need them.[/QUOTE]
Like Karbunkle mentioned above, with every profession you are going to run into assholes.
Undertow,y ou must deal with Chicago cops in the Northside or downtown, because anywhere else in the city they are the biggest assholes ever. I think in the city that 20 out of 100 people theaory is revresed.
I was waiting for a friend behind his house in Chicago to take a ride to a party or something. An unmarked car followed me maybe three city blocks and pulled up next to me and started grilling me. Thier reason for the questioning me was because I didn't look familiar (oldest trick in the book). I had to show them my police ID to get them off my back. I felt pretty uncomfortable because I was being profiled becuase of the neighborhood and maybe the kind of vehicle I was in.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Like Karbunkle mentioned above, with every profession you are going to run into assholes.
Undertow,y ou must deal with Chicago cops in the Northside or downtown, because anywhere else in the city they are the biggest assholes ever. I think in the city that 20 out of 100 people theaory is revresed.
I was waiting for a friend behind his house in Chicago to take a ride to a party or something. An unmarked car followed me maybe three city blocks and pulled up next to me and started grilling me. Thier reason for the questioning me was because I didn't look familiar (oldest trick in the book). I had to show them my police ID to get them off my back. I felt pretty uncomfortable because I was being profiled becuase of the neighborhood and maybe the kind of vehicle I was in.[/QUOTE]

There's a neighborhood that is now a bit of a speed trap, with a 25 m.p.h. speed zone when cars can (and previously could) go 10 m.p.h. more, easily. I got a speeding ticket there along with my dad and sister within a month. What pissed me off wasn't the ticket itself but the situation, having a rediculous speed limit put in a neighborhood and have it strictly watched, for no good reason. No a lot of traffic goes through there.

I have a couple other stories but I'll share those another time, I'm tired. Sorry to keep you hanging. But you're right, I think all the city cops I can think of are either north side or downtown.

[QUOTE=Undertow]There's a neighborhood that is now a bit of a speed trap, with a 25 m.p.h. speed zone when cars can (and previously could) go 10 m.p.h. more, easily. I got a speeding ticket there along with my dad and sister within a month. What pissed me off wasn't the ticket itself but the situation, having a rediculous speed limit put in a neighborhood and have it strictly watched, for no good reason. No a lot of traffic goes through there.

I have a couple other stories but I'll share those another time, I'm tired. Sorry to keep you hanging. But you're right, I think all the city cops I can think of are either north side or downtown.[/QUOTE]
I admit a lot of the traffic violations that people can be cited are assinine (i.e. left wheel to curb, no front license plate[IL statute], cracked windshield) but I have a [B]pass Go [/B] card in my ID. Its a perk of the job.

So today has been a relatively quiet night which makes for long, long work shift, especially when your left to man the communications room solo for the last 4 hours.
I recieve a 911 call from a lady asking for police assistance. I ask her what the problem is. She responds that she lost her keys. Usually people call for assistance due to locking thier keys in thier vehicle so I figured this is what she was calling for. I ask her what kind of car she has. She says that she doesnt drive. So I ask what she needs police assistance with. She said she lost her keys outside in the grass. Again I ask what she needs from us. "For an officer to come here with a big flashlight and find my keys."
For a second I thought this was a prank call. I asked her if she knew who she had called. She sadi she knew it was the police. I shook my head in disbelief and advised her that we did not provide that service, at which point she hung up.
To steal from another thread..... Now you are me.

Yeah, I have a friend who's a firefighter & EMT, got toned out on 'shortness of breath.' The lady was out of cigarettes and didn't have a car, was really just hoping to get some smokes off the responders, maybe one to feel sorry enough for her to leave a pack.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]Yeah, I have a friend who's a firefighter & EMT, got toned out on 'shortness of breath.' The lady was out of cigarettes and didn't have a car, was really just hoping to get some smokes off the responders, maybe one to feel sorry enough for her to leave a pack.[/QUOTE]
OMG. I can believe that becasue we have to deal with people like that all the time. they call requesting an ambulance or an officer for everything. Its sad when people are either so dependant on others or so ignorant that they have to call the police when they have a tummy ache or if thier child does not want to clean thier room.
I end up having to give up an officer to a dumb call just when I get a hot call about shots fired.

Yeah, back when I was fresh out of high school, working in a gas station, I got an introduction to EMS as social safety net. This woman did the Thorazine Strut into the station asking for an ambulance, so of course I called 911. They knew her. The EMTs that loaded her up explained that they usually get a call for her when she was on the outs with her 'boyfriend' and it was going to be cold overnight. She knew she could stay warm and get some sleep in the ER, maybe even get admitted to the hospital for a few days. It must have been some boyfriend to prefer to tie up an ambulance and an ER bed to making up so he'd let her back in the house.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]Yeah, back when I was fresh out of high school, working in a gas station, I got an introduction to EMS as social safety net. This woman did the Thorazine Strut into the station asking for an ambulance, so of course I called 911. They knew her. The EMTs that loaded her up explained that they usually get a call for her when she was on the outs with her 'boyfriend' and it was going to be cold overnight. She knew she could stay warm and get some sleep in the ER, maybe even get admitted to the hospital for a few days. It must have been some boyfriend to prefer to tie up an ambulance and an ER bed to making up so he'd let her back in the house.[/QUOTE]
We have a town bum/alcoholic who does the same thing. He'll either call from a pay phone or go to a local business establishment and ask for an ambulance stating he is "dizzy" and "nautious". Which is more like drunk and pukey. Same thing, my officers arrive to the scene already knowing its him and he gets a free ride to the hopsital. Sometimes he will call 911 and hang up or make a bogus call just to have an officer there. When they arrive and the call is unfounded he pops up req a transport to the nearest train station. We usually oblige because we would rather have him out fo town.

So what's your career choice in the police department? You ever wanna become a detective?

And, is there a lot of graft that you have encountered?

i'm glad this thread got the bumpy !

ok, here's the situation, a cop on patrol in his cruiser sees what he thinks is a ghost in the middle of the road veers right, into a tree and wrecks

what kind of code would he call in for that or any kind of paperwork involved ? most notably, would a ghost sighting appear anywhere on a written record of the event?

[QUOTE=Mr. Brown]So what's your career choice in the police department? You ever wanna become a detective?

And, is there a lot of graft that you have encountered?[/QUOTE]
At the moment I am a police dispatcher. My first goal is to become a patrolman. I am currently on an active list to become a police officer. In order to do so I have to take a polygraph test, pass a psychological examination, and a medical check. After that I get sent to the police academy (think Steve Guttenberg but without the tomfoolery and Bobcat Goldwaith). I go thru 10 weeks of training and after I graduate from the academy I have another 10 weeks of on the street training. Once I do all that I am a certified cop. I will always be on the job whether at my department or in my private life. I know it sounds so immature but one thing I look forward to is carrying a gun at all times. You know how when you were younger, you used to carry a water pistol or one of those that shot sparks (when you pulled the trigger) under your shirt, pretending you weren't armed and someone is holding you up. You pretned to go for your wallet in yourt back pocket but instead draw your weapon on him and kill him. Yeah, thats what I wanna do.

At the department I currently work for, I would not want to become a detective. The investigating that they have to do isn't all too glorious like in the movies or even in a much larger department. there detective work entails calling people back in reference to burglaries, missing children (who are habitual runaways to begin with), and following up on lost property reports.

Ultimately my choice in law enforcement would be having a government position. I hae looked into the secret service as well as the DEA and even ATF. I have never really thought about the FBI. I guess I would rather go into something a little more off the beaten path.

What do you mean by graft that I have encountered?

[QUOTE=karbunkle]i'm glad this thread got the bumpy !

ok, here's the situation, a cop on patrol in his cruiser sees what he thinks is a ghost in the middle of the road veers right, into a tree and wrecks

what kind of code would he call in for that or any kind of paperwork involved ? most notably, would a ghost sighting appear anywhere on a written record of the event?[/QUOTE]
Well as i work in the state of Illinois I and the 10 codes that we use vary from those that other states use. He would advise that he was involved in a 10-50. Any time there is a carr accident, especially involving a municipal owned vehicle there is paperwork involved. Most likely than not the person in charge of that particulr shift would have to fill out a state accident report.
If said copper was to get into an accident and he said he veered out of the way of a ghost and crashed, he would most likely either be made fun of or be sent for a mental evaluation. Said copper would have to write a memorandum directed to the Chief or Commander (or other Superior officer) adviseing how the accident occured. If he was to say that he veered out of the way of a ghost in the road this memorandum would be the only record maintained.
[QUOTE=karbunkle]this really truly disturbs me ![/QUOTE]
I was mostly kidding about that.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]So today has been a relatively quiet night which makes for long, long work shift, especially when your left to man the communications room solo for the last 4 hours.
I recieve a 911 call from a lady asking for police assistance. I ask her what the problem is. She responds that she lost her keys. Usually people call for assistance due to locking thier keys in thier vehicle so I figured this is what she was calling for. I ask her what kind of car she has. She says that she doesnt drive. So I ask what she needs police assistance with. She said she lost her keys outside in the grass. Again I ask what she needs from us. "For an officer to come here with a big flashlight and find my keys."
For a second I thought this was a prank call. I asked her if she knew who she had called. She sadi she knew it was the police. I shook my head in disbelief and advised her that we did not provide that service, at which point she hung up.
To steal from another thread..... Now you are me.[/QUOTE]

I'm so, so sorry. My grandmother (+/- 86 years old) used to do that, until my family put a stop to it. Probably due to confusion and general oldness she thought people had [i]stolen[/i] her keys, and made several 911 calls for things of that nature.

Don't feel bad, I temped in the electric company's call center and they'd get calls from people with dead appliances... like the power company could do anything about their broken refrigerator.

And now a question:

I'm aware that liquor stores and gas stations sometimes have sting operations done to them where they'll try to buy booze or cigarettes with an undercover... my question is do they use an undercover that's of age with an ID that says they're 17 that the gas station guy should have looked at, or are they using actual minors. And if so, where are they getting the actual minors to do these sort of things? Do they just go down to juvenile hall and pick out the biggest 15-year-old with a mustache or what?

[QUOTE=Spike] I'm so, so sorry. My grandmother (+/- 86 years old) used to do that, until my family put a stop to it. Probably due to confusion and general oldness she thought people had [i]stolen[/i] her keys, and made several 911 calls for things of that nature.[/QUOTE]

Haha. I can understand if its due to old age but the lady that called me was not real old (at least she didn't sound like it).
[QUOTE=Spike]Don't feel bad, I temped in the electric company's call center and they'd get calls from people with dead appliances... like the power company could do anything about their broken refrigerator.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess I am not the ojly person who has to deal with people like this. I still get people who call 911 instead of 411 and even when I tell them they have called 911 they ask if I have the number to Bob's Muffler and Brakes on Main St. thats when it gets aggravating.
[QUOTE=Spike]And now a question:

I'm aware that liquor stores and gas stations sometimes have sting operations done to them where they'll try to buy booze or cigarettes with an undercover... my question is do they use an undercover that's of age with an ID that says they're 17 that the gas station guy should have looked at, or are they using actual minors. And if so, where are they getting the actual minors to do these sort of things? Do they just go down to juvenile hall and pick out the biggest 15-year-old with a mustache or what? [/QUOTE]
Well, I have never really seen this occur in my town or any surrounding towns where I live but I do recall when it was a lrger problem some 10 years ago (not saying its still a problem) but I recall the officers in charge of the D.A.R.E (Drug Abuse Resistance Education) program coming to my school and asking if anyone wanted to be a part of this special assignment or detail as we call it.
Actual minors that looked old enough as well as those that didn't look anywhere near 18 were used. In this situation people outside of law enforcement can be used as the subject would be in no harm in what they were being asked to do.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]What do you mean by graft that I have encountered?[/QUOTE]

Cops on the take.

[QUOTE=Mr. Brown]Cops on the take.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I'm sure it me, but, I still don't know what you mean.

[URL=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050824/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/traffic_stops]Study Sees Disperity In traffic Stops[/URL]

"[I]Black, Hispanic and white motorists are equally likely to be pulled over by police, but blacks and Hispanics are much more likely to be searched, handcuffed, arrested and subjected to force or the threat of it, a Justice Department study has found[/I]."

What sucks is that people complain about "profiling" drivers when being stopped. If you mean you are profiled becuase you are driving erratically, in violation of the Vehicle Code, or get in volved in an accident and are ticketed and such then, yes you are being profiled...for being a bad driver. Whats worse is that moniroty drivers (mostly Black and Hispanicans) complain about being profiled. In the department I work for we can't help but pull over Blacks and Browns. They make up the majority of the town!!! I feel if we were to pull over an Asian feamle driver for that would be grounds for investigation due to profiling. She fits both stereotypes that women and Asians are bad drivers/ If I was Chung Woo I would be upset. If only for my very racist comment.

"[I]Force was defined as when an officer pushed, grabbed, kicked or hit a driver with a hand or object. Also included were police dog bites, chemical or pepper spray or a firearm pointed at the driver, or the threat of any of these[/I]."

Now, I can't speak for the rest of the country, or even the state of Illinois, but from what I have seen and heard, once it comes to using "force" on a person, its because said person left no other choice. Unfortunately we have officers who don't want to take a chnace of getting injured and actually know how to do thier job so when their subject is asked to either get out of the car, get on the ground, or stop and the subject doesn't do so, then they see this as a threat to them and anyone else around so they have to make them do it themselves. Don't run from the police and you won't get your ass beat. "QUIT RESISTING!!!"

i hang around a community of people who have a very negative attitude toward police, mostly because of the active relationship they have, being a party-throwing bunch who live in a college-student-dense area. i've been at parties when police come and flash their lights around and tell everyone to go home - parties of 7 or 8 people with the lights on - and it made no sense, and there was nothing illegal going on. so with that in mind, i can understand their frustration. it's part of a movement to placate the elderly who are the only voters in that area, and who dislike the youth presence.

however, individually, i've had some wonderful experiences with helpful police - not just the ones who give me good directions when i'm lost, and tell me to make sure i lock the door because i'm driving alone, which is sweet - but one in particular who i'm trying to track down now, in fact, whose generosity and kindness made me feel safe, and helped me get home. i locked myself out of my car in a bad section, late at night, dressed immodestly, to boot. he was patrolling the street - where i was parked was set to be demolished in an hour! and he let me use his cell phone, and then hung around and chatted and kept me company until the car people came, a good hour and a half later. he was charming, polite, and kept me safe, and i want to send that man a fruit basket or something, but i can't find him!

in almost every situation a cop finds themself in, they come out as the badguy. what i mean is that when they rescue a woman from being beaten in a domestic dispute, she says he's a good guy, but the husband being brought to jail says he's a bad guy. hell i've even heard stories when a woman attacked the officer arresting the abusive husband....that might have been a movie...regardless.

thats just one example, but whenever a cop is a hero to one person, he's an enemy to another.

[QUOTE=JKuhlmann] ...hell i've even heard stories when a woman attacked the officer arresting the abusive husband....that might have been a movie...regardless.

thats just one example, but whenever a cop is a hero to one person, he's an enemy to another.[/QUOTE]
Its happened. I've given out a call in reference to a man beating a woman. We arrive on the scene and the officder observes the actual battery. The guy gets cuffed and arrested. The battered wife/girlfriend runs at the officer as he is placing her significant other and tries to hit him or push him to keep the officer from taking her man away. In the end she got arrested for obstructing and assault. She got to go and share a booking room with her loving man after that.

Its sad but true. Those people who have had a negative altercation with an officer will always view them in a negative light. And I hate that I am always trying to persuade people that they shouldn't view every officer to be the same.

There have been court cases in Missouri and New Jersey (among other places) where police have used NRA and other pro-gun bumper stickers as 'probable cause' for searching for firearms. In at least one New Jersey case, if memory serves, the staties had instructions that a Grateful Dead or pot leaf sticker was probable cause for a narcotics search.

Every time a lawyer challenges this, the cops lose. When someone goes after damages, they get them, but so far I know of no case where they get the kind of punative damages that would make an actual dent on behavior. A county or state cuts a check and continues to tell cops to break the law.

I have zero doubt that racial profiling happens, probably more in some places than others, but it's almost impossible to fight on a systems basis. Cops have such wide discretion: basically anyone who leaves their house (or stays home) on a given day is probably afoul of some law if you want to search hard enough. Personalities come into play, both in terms of leaders and in terms of individual cops on the beat. I got stopped for a headlight out with no driver's license (I'd left it in the bank drive-through the day before). I got a verbal warning because my other documentation checked out, I was polite and honest with the cop, and when he ran my number it came up as being a valid operator's license. I've got to get a replacement, but if I'd been an asshole, I could conceivably dug myself a hell of a hole.

It's an unwritten law, but contempt of cop is for all intents and purposes illegal. If you're black, hispanic, a Grateful Dead fan, an NRA member, you may be stopped more often. But if you can make it clear to the cop that your goal is for both your day and his day to go as smoothly as possible, I think in most cases that discretion is going to favor you.

[QUOTE=JKuhlmann]in almost every situation a cop finds themself in, they come out as the badguy.[/QUOTE]

To a lot of people, yeah. I was on ridealong and saw a guy basically get out of a DUI by being nice. My state has mandatory sentencing guidelines that basically take away a judge's discretion to a great extent. Defense attorneys don't even claim they can get you out of a DUI, they only claim to give you a shot at the judge only giving you the minimum fine/sentence. I even heard one lawyer say defeating a DUI is harder than defeating a capital murder case.

So the guy got the one line of discretion available: a cop who was willing to let him call a ride. Some people would say that cop did a good thing, letting a guy with no prior police record slide when he had admittedly fucked up badly but hadn't hurt anyone. Others would say that cop might as well have given a loaded gun to a teenage outcast on the way into school.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]
So the guy got the one line of discretion available: a cop who was willing to let him call a ride. Some people would say that cop did a good thing, letting a guy with no prior police record slide when he had admittedly fucked up badly but hadn't hurt anyone. Others would say that cop might as well have given a loaded gun to a teenage outcast on the way into school.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately the department I work for is on a hiring freeze. By next week the force will be short 3 officers. It will be short 4 coppers come the end of September. We have had to deal with this DUI situation recently. Do we take an officer off the street to test, book, process, and charge a guy who has a clean or near clean driving record who might have had a couple too many to drink that night or do we keep the already shorted shift in tact and ready to go and let the guy call a ride? We have had to go with the latter, not only because we are short patrolmen but because we have lost officers who were DUI trained and no longer employed here.
I guess it wouldn't be so bad if more of the officers were trained for DUI arrest however that costs money and the village I work for just won't put that money up to train the officers. Who's liable for that if we let a guy call a ride and in turn he decides he wants to drunk drive again in the future. By letting him call a ride, it allows him to think he will get away with it again. That wn't be the case if that guy crashes and injures someone severely or even fatally. This is a double edged sword.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Unfortunately the department I work for is on a hiring freeze. By next week the force will be short 3 officers. It will be short 4 coppers come the end of September. We have had to deal with this DUI situation recently. Do we take an officer off the street to test, book, process, and charge a guy who has a clean or near clean driving record who might have had a couple too many to drink that night or do we keep the already shorted shift in tact and ready to go and let the guy call a ride? We have had to go with the latter, not only because we are short patrolmen but because we have lost officers who were DUI trained and no longer employed here.
I guess it wouldn't be so bad if more of the officers were trained for DUI arrest however that costs money and the village I work for just won't put that money up to train the officers. Who's liable for that if we let a guy call a ride and in turn he decides he wants to drunk drive again in the future. By letting him call a ride, it allows him to think he will get away with it again. That wn't be the case if that guy crashes and injures someone severely or even fatally. This is a double edged sword.[/QUOTE]

The DUI situation: there's been a big, largely successful, effort in the past few years to lower the legal limit for alcohol. I sincerely doubt that fatalities between the .08 and .1 level are the issue. It's the Diana Ross factor, people with who blow a .2 or more who think they're 'fine to drive.' I knew a girl with four DUIs before her 21st birthday, who served total of a weekend in jail (scheduled seven months after her conviction, and only because he never showed up for the many hours of community service she was sentenced to).

You mention training: I saw a guy busted for pot. His car smelled of it, there were blunt snubs in his ashtray. He had $1,000 in neatly rubber-banded c-notes in one pocket, about $180 in his wallet.

Half an hour: if they'd caught him after his buy, they could have taken his car (permanently), whatever money he had left, and probably sent him to to prison for a few years as a dealer. As it was, he was able to bond out with part of his cash, and none of the warrants he had were extraditable. They made him call for a ride on the basis of probable impairment, but did not charge him with DUI. Why? Because you have to take a seperate class to even be able to establish your probable-cause for him being 'under the influence,' and so on.

The cops were so focused on their frustration at not being able to take his property as drug-seizures, and I was thinking, what about the hazard his stoned ass was on the road?

Fucking Benadryl will take you out of the 'legal' catagory, but it's mostly unenforced. Compare the mandatory sentencing guidelines for murder, manslaughter, armed robbery, child molsestation, rape, etc., and compare it to the pentalties required for simply owning a chemical (even if you don't have it in your system). For that matter, a case could be made that cocaine and speed actually enhance a driver's abilities, since their stimulant properties might make a driver more alert. And an acclimated opiate addict is much less impaired on heroin or Oxycontin than an alcoholic, even alcoholics who've graduated from the Frank Sinatra Drinking School.

I don't doubt your department is understaffed/underfunded. A LOT of govt. entities bought that 'new economy' crap in the late 90's and are just now figuring out what the private sector new by the summer of 2000. Equipment has been purchased, hiring goals set, with no regard for the fact that the economy has not continued to grow in double digits in the past five years. Meanwhile, some dangerous motherfuckers get paroled because there has to be some place to put the guy who was half an hour later. Confiscated property is all good and well (from a police perpective) but how often do drug forfeitures include prisons?

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Okay, I'm sure it me, but, I still don't know what you mean.[/QUOTE]

Have you encountered corruption in the police force and if so, how do you handle it?

By the way, when you say 'village,' it sounds like you're on a force roughly the size of the two police departments that come into play in my novel. How hard (or easy) is it to deal with internal affairs issues with a department that size? My friend who's an officer on a smallish force says it's no problem, but even though I've known him for 20 years, I think the 'blue brotherhood' angle would trump an honest answer if it wasn't flattering. Especially since I know in his case, the small scale of the department almost cost him and several other officers their job over something that, while embarrassing, should not have been career ending (a bachelor party in another city where a non-cop member of the party hired a stripper to come into a bar that didn't have a license for such).

In the case of my book, I've got a character who was gung-ho when he became a cop (and in a way before he became one), and was disillusioned by things like an unwritten policy that residents were more or less given a pass on DUIs, while people from 'outside' (even an adjacent suburb) could count on getting a ticket for 3 miles over the limit with an aggressive fine schedule. What's more, a lot of this inversion of missions results from a chief who has a son in their jurisdiciton who's a tweaker. Grown and out of the house, but a known burnout, small time dealer and nuissance. Since there's only 7,000 residents, it's not like a secret like that can really be kept, so a lot of the apparent corruption is a reaction by the chief to the fact that if he comes down too hard on one of the mayor's constituents, it could highlight the fact that his son is in violation of numerous laws on a daily basis and does not get arrested within the city limits.

I'm sure such things happen, and I'm not setting it up that the Chief is a bad guy, only a guy with too much time in and too much to lose with a son who puts him in an impossible position. Professional courtesy gets stretched to its limits, and for my character, it's breaking point. I guess what I'm asking is for feedback as far as how plausible you think this is in a small midwestern suburb that's part of a medium sized midwestern city. In a large department, I would expect an independent Internal Affairs department, but I know in the case of my friend's department, there's so few cops that their one detective is also their one IA officer. If that one IA officer is in a position to take the top job if he prosecutes the Chief, that's a conflict of interest (I would think); if he's not, it could also be a conflict of interest, because in a small group, that one IA officer might have a personality conflict with the second-in-command.

And I'm basically trying to avoid both the stereotypical cops of a Robert Crais novel or painting the department as being outrageously corrupt. The idea is to have the kind of malfeasance and petty corruption that a regular guy might identify with, even sympathize with, and that could happen right under people's noses for years without making news.

what [I]exactly[/I] is j-walking (jay? walking).......and what does the j (jay) part mean or stand for?

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Its happened. I've given out a call in reference to a man beating a woman. We arrive on the scene and the officder observes the actual battery. The guy gets cuffed and arrested. The battered wife/girlfriend runs at the officer as he is placing her significant other and tries to hit him or push him to keep the officer from taking her man away. In the end she got arrested for obstructing and assault. She got to go and share a booking room with her loving man after that.[/QUOTE]

In my latest rewrite thoughts, one of the things I submit Stu to is being jumped by a husband who's tyring to keep them from arresting his wife. Role reversal, sort of, he's been in the tank a few times but is (this time) the apparent victim. It's fun because of the triple release holster. He's trying to take Stu's gun and he can't figure out the releases. Stuff Stu could do in his sleep. Stu finally gets bored and pepper-sprays this guy, even though the guy couldn't figure out the holster, and if he did, I don't know if he'd figure out the saftey...

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Its sad but true. Those people who have had a negative altercation with an officer will always view them in a negative light. And I hate that I am always trying to persuade people that they shouldn't view every officer to be the same.[/QUOTE]

My friend who's a cop was the best man at my wedding, and I stood with him on his second marriage. He and his second wife are my children's God-parents. On the other hand, there's the pig that found my truck with an expired meter and wrote a second ticket for an expired tag even though I was paid up and there was no violation. I had to take time off work and go to court out of town to fight a bullshit $30 fine. Which I did out of indignation. I'm sure it was a percentage play: most people would mail in the fine rather than take a day off work and drive 90 miles round trip to plead ignorance. It was because the assumption was that I'd rather right a check, pay a fine by mail that I knew I didn't owe, that's why I fought it. I even told the judge, who made passable pretense at incredulity when I was called: 'Mail fraud is a crime, Your Honor. I'd paid my taxes and affixed the sticker proving it, so paying the fine by mail would amount to using the postal service to lie.'

Of course, that day was surreal in many ways. I wore my suit to court, and even the judge didn't have a tie showing from under the robe. I was overdressed for court. Didn't know that was possible. I was brought up to believe that if you're called to court (evena s a witness) that you dressed for it. Like a wedding or funeral, a real occasion thing. Apparently 'casual Friday' has leaked all the way back to Mondays in municipal court.

[QUOTE=JKuhlmann]what [I]exactly[/I] is j-walking (jay? walking).......and what does the j (jay) part mean or stand for?[/QUOTE]
Jaywalking is a person(s) crossed the street at an undesignated crossing. Generally its when someone runs across in the middle of the street as opposed to the designated crossing , mostly found but not limited to the interesctions.
Around these parts thats not a big deal. The only time I think someone could be cited for jaywalking is he/she crossed when traffic was heavy and it caused some kind of accident or if an officer felt it was a wreckless thing to do even if nothing occured.

I had to look up where the term came from and I found this.
[URL=http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwordorigins/jaywalking]And the experts say...[/URL]
and this
[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking_%28The_Tonight_Show%29]Wikepidia-wack.[/URL]

Chixy, I'll try to get to your queries as soon as possible. I just now realized you had questions. I'm short on time at the moment.

Isn't this topic "posing as a cop?" Because I've done that. It was only about a week ago. Some boogies had slammed into the rear of this girl's car on a major, busy road right in front of work. I can pass for just about anything, cop included, and was sort of dressed the part at the time in black dickies and a black beater. As they began threatening her and dancing around in their baggy jeans and crooked sports caps I decided it was time to take action. Took a deep breath, called 911, and entered the situation (traffic was a mess, people everywhere) as if I had authority and began shouting orders. One of the probable fellonious well fare parasites axed, "Who the fuk you think you be? Callin the po-lees?" I said, "I am the fucking police. Now get back into your hoopty until a traffic patrol arrives."

They actually did.

When the real cops came I just snuck away as there were more then anough witnesses for the traffic report.

[QUOTE=Chixulub] By the way, when you say 'village,' it sounds like you're on a force roughly the size of the two police departments that come into play in my novel. How hard (or easy) is it to deal with internal affairs issues with a department that size? My friend who's an officer on a smallish force says it's no problem, but even though I've known him for 20 years, I think the 'blue brotherhood' angle would trump an honest answer if it wasn't flattering. Especially since I know in his case, the small scale of the department almost cost him and several other officers their job over something that, while embarrassing, should not have been career ending (a bachelor party in another city where a non-cop member of the party hired a stripper to come into a bar that didn't have a license for such).[/QUOTE]
The particular department I work for is relativley small but we deal with big city issues. Its kind of hard to really say how things get handled within the department as far as officers getting disciplined.

Our former chief was a great guy who liked the drink, maybe a little too much. I think that problem was brought on by his position. He had to mind his p's and q's because being a white Chief in a predominantly black town. Because of this he was under the watchful eye of active 'concerned' citizens who didn't think it was right there wasn't more black officers on the force. The community doesn't understand that to become an officer there are certain requirements. Most departments require minimum high school diploma or equivalent. Larger towns, municipalities, or cities require some college education (usually 60 credits+).

There is a written test that has to be taken that has to be passed with a 70% and higher. A phyiscal assesment known here as the [I]Power Test [/I] is mandated by the state of Illinois that is set up where certain levels have to be reached depending on age and gender. The younger and more male you are the higher the levels are set that have to be reached.

Once the Power tested is passed, the wannabe officer has to pass a oral interview, acriminal history check, a psychological assesment, a plygraph test, a medical check-up, and finally the police academy (10 weeks there). Unfortunately people don't understand that not many who intend to become police officers pass some parts of these tests. So basically departments have a higher, more qualified percentage to choose from after the lists gets dwindled when someone fails something.

That being said, possibly for no other reason than to make things clear on how this department was run, our former chief promoted the first black patrolman to Sgt. There were rumors that the all black police commision might have fudged some test results in order for this officer to become Sgt. Am I saying this particular officer isn't quialified for the job? No, I am not saying that. He is qualified and has done a decent job but there was other officers who were more qualified that just didn't fit the skin pigment portion of the test.

Again, this leads me to trying to answer your actual question. I saw two similar cases get handled very differently in how the officers were disciplined. They both were in reference to an officer using excessive force with an adult subject who was detained at a local department store for theft. This officer who happened to be white was put on leave until he had a court hearing and the outcome was he received a 30 day suspension without pay.

The other incident involved one of our black officers. He used excessive force on a juvenile subject. He not only didn't get suspended, there was never an investigation done even though the same department store that had supposed evidence via surveillance camera of the white officers excessive force also had evidence on the black officer. Alot of politics have taken place around here. The mayor has had some part in a lot that had occured under the previous Chief.Because the mayor of town is also white he felt he had to be be viewed in a certain light in order to keep his job even though he has driven the village to near bankruptcy.

In my particular case, things have been handled, as I have stated, very differently and its unfortunate. Our previous Chief who is now an assistant Chief in a smaller, private, predominantly white town in another state did a fine if not really good job running this department aside from his handling on a couple of matters involving certain officers.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]In the case of my book, I've got a character who was gung-ho when he became a cop (and in a way before he became one), and was disillusioned by things like an unwritten policy that residents were more or less given a pass on DUIs, while people from 'outside' (even an adjacent suburb) could count on getting a ticket for 3 miles over the limit with an aggressive fine schedule. What's more, a lot of this inversion of missions results from a chief who has a son in their jurisdiciton who's a tweaker. Grown and out of the house, but a known burnout, small time dealer and nuissance. Since there's only 7,000 residents, it's not like a secret like that can really be kept, so a lot of the apparent corruption is a reaction by the chief to the fact that if he comes down too hard on one of the mayor's constituents, it could highlight the fact that his son is in violation of numerous laws on a daily basis and does not get arrested within the city limits.[/QUOTE]
There have been times where village employees (other than police) have been arrested for DUI and even for possession of Cannabis. In the latter case, it involved the assistant to our building commisioner. He was stopped in another town (in another county for that matter) for speeding. Prior to placing the assistant building commisioner in custody the officer on the scene called my department. He advised the building commisioner (who carries a badge stating so) told him he worked for my town and often has to deal and at times work side by side with our PD. He wanted to know what he should do with him.

Now I never got a call like that before (but have since) so I had to go to my higher-ups and see what was needed to be done. In this case we advised that the officer needed to do what he needed to do... and that was to place the guy in custody and charge him. The end result was the assistant building commisioner (who was black) was fired.

I know for a fact that the blue brotherhood is alive and well. Not only from what other officers had dealt with, but what I have experienced as well. Depending on the circumstances, a police ID can double as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]I'm sure such things happen, and I'm not setting it up that the Chief is a bad guy, only a guy with too much time in and too much to lose with a son who puts him in an impossible position. Professional courtesy gets stretched to its limits, and for my character, it's breaking point. I guess what I'm asking is for feedback as far as how plausible you think this is in a small midwestern suburb that's part of a medium sized midwestern city. In a large department, I would expect an independent Internal Affairs department, but I know in the case of my friend's department, there's so few cops that their one detective is also their one IA officer. If that one IA officer is in a position to take the top job if he prosecutes the Chief, that's a conflict of interest (I would think); if he's not, it could also be a conflict of interest, because in a small group, that one IA officer might have a personality conflict with the second-in-command.

And I'm basically trying to avoid both the stereotypical cops of a Robert Crais novel or painting the department as being outrageously corrupt. The idea is to have the kind of malfeasance and petty corruption that a regular guy might identify with, even sympathize with, and that could happen right under people's noses for years without making news. [/QUOTE]
In the past and depending on the size of the incident, we have used both one of our investigators to handle a situation as well as going outside the department. Seeing that your story involves a similar size department in a similar setting (sounds almost like your describing my department considering it has a population of a smidge over 8,000), even though my department might be a little more urban-based than you might be aiming for.

I don't know if you can or will use what I have mentioned in my first answer. Generally, departments that may be similar in size and even make-up, depending on who is running the show, can still handle things differently from one depaertment to the next.

[QUOTE=Mr. Brown]Have you encountered corruption in the police force and if so, how do you handle it?[/QUOTE]
I have never encountered any coruption worth mentioning. I mean some of the officers are no angels. They do wrong at times, but nothing so bad that you can legitimately accuse them of said wrong doing. Maybe read some of the answers I gave to Chixulub. I think that might answer your question.

[QUOTE=AlkalineMidnight in Night hawk thread]... Hey Frank, what do you think the odds are that I could go through the academy and become a desk cop like you?[/QUOTE]
Depending on the size of the department, there might not be a need to go thru the academy. For my particular position I didn't need to go thru that. Seeing that you are in the military chances are you are in good shape. Different states have different requirements. Look into what Wisconsin (thats were you are right?) requires for a person to get into law enforcemnt. Usually there are education requirements, medical/health requirements, physical capability requirements as well as background checks , psychological exams as well as polygraph and other various tests.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]Depending on the size of the department, there might not be a need to go thru the academy. For my particular position I didn't need to go thru that. Seeing that you are in the military chances are you are in good shape. Different states have different requirements. Look into what Wisconsin (thats were you are right?) requires for a person to get into law enforcemnt. Usually there are education requirements, medical/health requirements, physical capability requirements as well as background checks , psychological exams as well as polygraph and other various tests.[/QUOTE]

Have you taken a polygraph before? I'm sure I should be good on everything since the government already has seen it fit to give me a Top Secret security clearance. Just wondering what the process of the Polygraph is like.

I have taken a polygraph before. It really isn't all to bad as long as you don't lie. Sounds easy right? Not entirely so. The process is a bit nerve-racking. They hook you up to the machine and connect all these wires to you, just like in the movies. Prior to the actual test, they go thru a dry run where they ask you various questions. Some are what they call neautral questions. Questions that you can't lie about, or there would be no reason to lie about. Example: [I]At the moment, George Bush is President of the United States of America. [/I]
Of course the answer is yes (as of today).

Other questions that determine your integrity and honesty (because this is really what they are checking for) require a little more depthness to them. I was asked if I ever stol anything from an employer. Previous to answering, the guy who was conducting the test told me that he isn't looking for a confession but rather a owning up. Everyone has taken something that wasn't theirs sometime in thier life. In this instance it was about stealing from previous employers.

I admitted to taking a few things here and there. When it came time to ask me again if I had stolen he asked, "Besides stealing what you have stated of stealing, have you ever stoeln from a former employee?" Now this should be a no answer. Similar questions were asked and depthness was created per question. Ultimately it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

So your results will depend on how honest you can be with your answers even after they gave you an out prior to testing.

[QUOTE=Smartazboy]
Other questions that determine your integrity and honesty (because this is really what they are checking for) require a little more depthness to them. I was asked if I ever stol anything from an employer. Previous to answering, the guy who was conducting the test told me that he isn't looking for a confession but rather a owning up. Everyone has taken something that wasn't theirs sometime in thier life. In this instance it was about stealing from previous employers.[/QUOTE]

At the risk of being off topic, I know a guy who failed a pre-employment polygraph back when they were more common for private sector jobs, because he stated that he'd never tried marijuana. They asked about drugs in the pre-interview, and because he'd never even been curious about it, he honestly answered that the only things he'd tried was beer, which he tried once and didn't like, and cigarettes, which satisfied his curiosity in one puff.

The administrator of the test did not believe anyone could have long hair in 1988 and never have smoked pot by the age of 18. Dave wore his hair long, but he was a Dungeons & Dragons nerd and I don't know if anyone ever even offered him a hit.

He answered truthfully, and because it didn't make the needles jump when they came back to that in the second phase (when you're hooked up), the administrator figured he was lying about pretty much everything.

I thought of it the other day when I heard an interview with a guy who was getting a security clearance polygraph and answered that no he'd never viewed child pornography, then got all worked up about wondering if he'd inadvertently seen a nude photo of a kid who wasn't quite 18. He freaked out so bad he flunked the test. He came out looking like a damned pedophile because he was so bent on being honest.

[QUOTE=Spike]I'm aware that liquor stores and gas stations sometimes have sting operations done to them where they'll try to buy booze or cigarettes with an undercover... my question is do they use an undercover that's of age with an ID that says they're 17 that the gas station guy should have looked at, or are they using actual minors. And if so, where are they getting the actual minors to do these sort of things? Do they just go down to juvenile hall and pick out the biggest 15-year-old with a mustache or what?[/QUOTE]

I was looking for a job a while back, and there was an advertisment for one of these, for the lottery. You have to be old enough to buy the tickets, but look young enough so as to possibly be under age. You don't show them I.D., and see if you'll be served. Then tell your employer if they served you or not. You can make shops have to pay loads of fines if they're not nice to you. I didn't apply for that job though.

Anywho, my question. How similar would an American Police Department be to a British One?

Smartaz, thanks for offering this opportunity.

I'm curious about a few things, if you have a few minutes.

What kind of information does a cop have to work with in their vehicle?

I've been pulled over a few times for going a little fast, but I've always been respectful and I've never been arrested or anything. Let me relay a small story.

Driving home from Ft. Lauderdale to Clearwater (200-300 miles) one night, I got stopped about 10 miles from home. I'd driven past a cop after entering city limits and I was still traveling a bit fast, Interstate Syndrome, I suppose you could call it.

I get pulled over, cop asks for my license, but not my registration. Few minutes pass and he doesn't return to my vehicle. It's 2 in the morning, I'm parked in a decently lit area. Over the next 10 minutes, 11 more cop cars pull in with their lights running.

Turns out my name was flagged as a 'hot ticket' or something. As I understood it, from what they ended up telling me, there was an ex-cop gun running between New York and Fl with my same name. I was 23 at the time, 5'9, 140 pounds, obviously no kind of threat.

I told them I'd been working in a supermarket for the last 7 years, still lived with my parents, been in Florida 14 years. They asked if I had any weapons in the car. I told them I had a boxcutter, but had already explained I was a stock clerk in a supermarket, it was just my spare. I wasn't asked to exit my vehicle or anything.

As I had the flashlights in my face, answering these questions, I heard one of the cops say "seems a bit young to be a cop" and the thing ended pretty quickly. I was asked to just watch my speed, I was entering city limits, have a good night.

Anyway, I wouldn't think such a misunderstanding would be possible. I'd assume a cop's computer has my social security number, prior tickets, etc. but on the few times I've been pulled over, I've been asked "when was the last time you got a ticket?"

Is that a truth-test, or do they not have that information?

Sorry for the rant. I'd appreciate any insight you could offer. I respect the profession and understand how precautions and self-safety would be important for cops. I just wish it didn't have to make some of us feel like we're a threat lol.

Thanks,

Mike

I had a cop ask me if I had ever been arrested after he ran my license. I know that he knew, so I said yes. He asked me what for, still playing dumb. I told him for possession of marijuana. He gave me the mmm hmmm before insisting that I let him search my car. After about 15 minutes of him telling me that if I wanted to go home anytime soon I should just let him search the car. I finally let him and after about 15 more minutes of him searching he said I was free to go. I went to leave and threw in the "By the way, you were arrested for possession of cocaine also. I knew the whole time". My only reply was "cool. Okay see ya." My point is, I think they know a whole lot more than they let on.

No reason to dislike him. He's doing his job, playing his game. I respect his hustle, he respects mine. Was he sneaky? Yes. Not as sneaky as I was or I would have gone to jail that day. We look at each other, we know what's up. He is on one side of the law, I am on the other. We smiled at ech other before we left. A knowing smile. We conveyed a message, mentally.

This could have been the day, he said.
Maybe next time, I replied.

He's just doing his job, I was just doing mine. No hard feelings.

I think the scariest situation I'd ever been in with a cop was after having a few beers while shooting pool.

I had met up with a friend who'd been out of state for awhile. She was HORRENDOUS at all things billiards and the games lasted an hour each, thanks to my not playing seriously.

We managed to play two games and I had 1 beer each game. Sure enough, after dropping her off, I got pulled over. Cop caught me going over the speed limit.

Approaching me, he smelled alcohol and asked if I'd been drinking. I told him I had had 2 beers (which I knew was likely the "safe" answer most people give) and had dropped my friend (I gave her full name for the sake of reference) off and was on my way home.

The cop takes my license, asks me to step out of my vehicle and of course, more cop cars arrive.

I'm standing there, being asked to stand still, follow his finger and don't move. I do it without any sign of inebriation. Tester says as much

"Well, he's not drunk."

I get grilled on how much I'd had to drink.

"Two beers, sir. One per game of pool"
"How long ago was this?"
"It's what, one o'clock now? About an hour ago I left Strokers and 20 minutes ago I dropped my friend off in Lansbrook."
"You sure it was only 2 beers? I can smell alcohol all over you"
"2 beers sir. I don't do much drinking and I do even less if I know I'm gonna be driving around."

Then the cop asks me how large the beers were. He's asking the size and I'm trying to explain they were 2 draft beers, 'normal' container size. 12 ounces, 14 ounces, whatever it is you find in a 6-pack.

One cop is asking me something about the size from way back behind me, I can barely hear him over the others and I'm squinting with multiple flashlights and headlights in my eyes.

"When was the last time you got a ticket?"

"I've never gotten one before"

"Last time I'll ask, the truth will set you free, how many beers did you drink tonight?"

"2 beers sir, I'm too afraid to lie to you."

"Why are you afraid? I'm just asking you a question, I'm allowed to ask questions, aren't I?" If his voice was a penis, he'd have a 10 pound hard-on.

"Because I've been pulled over for a pretty serious reason. I'm worried."

"If you're telling the truth, you shouldn't have anything to worry about, right?"

"Well, yes, but I'm still surrounded by police trying to find out if I lied to them."

"Did you?"

"No sir. I had two beers, you can call my friend Susan right now. I have her number in my cell phone."

"That won't be necessary. Remember, you're a skinny guy, alcohol will affect you more than others. Drive carefully."

-- The truth will set you free? Sure, people lie to police all the time, but I passed a field sobriety test and I have no record.

I actually had a hard time sleeping for the next few nights. It was like I was a rape victim. I kept replaying the scene over in my head constantly, I couldn't get rid of it. Yeah, that's awfully pussy of me, but it really did bother me. I don't know why I had smelled strongly of alcohol, but I could have lost my license for a year, could have spent a night in jail. My life could have been changed in a fairly fundamental way and I was pretty angry for awhile over it.

The law is fairly untouchable on a one-on-one level. They enforce the rules and they live with a daily flow of excuses and explanations. When they're grouped up and you're just trying to get through the experience, you've got a lot of bias and 'likelihood' working against you. That's the thing I hate most.

I'm all better now though.

[QUOTE=Foreverlad;1039409]Anyway, I wouldn't think such a misunderstanding would be possible. I'd assume a cop's computer has my social security number, prior tickets, etc. but on the few times I've been pulled over, I've been asked "when was the last time you got a ticket?"

Is that a truth-test, or do they not have that information?

Sorry for the rant. I'd appreciate any insight you could offer. I respect the profession and understand how precautions and self-safety would be important for cops. I just wish it didn't have to make some of us feel like we're a threat lol.

Thanks,

Mike[/QUOTE]

Well, I can't tell you that its true countrywide or even county wide, but my department uses a system that allows the user (officer) to obtain information in several different ways. Just because they ran your plate doesn't mean that your driving history comes up. Usually basic car and owner info appear.
Sometimes (depending on how the Secretary of State filed the information) the registered owner's driver's license (DL) will appear (with basic info, like address, date of birth (DOB) and validity of license, etc) attached with license plate. Even then the registered owner's driving history nor their criminal history pop up automatically.
The officer can choose a different option where he can run the driver's name and request not only his DL informtation, but his driving abstract (history) be attached and it is only then that the officer can check what kind of traffic violations you have had in the past.
Another option is when an officer runs a name they can request their criminal history to be attached to it. There they can see who you are, if you have a valid DL, and if and any arrests you have had (both traffic and criminal) and not only if you were arrested but if you were convicted for any of these arrests.
So, it shoudln't always be assumed that the officer knows your driving history until he actually requests it.
Going back to your incident, they had probable cause to question you like they did. Was it the best way to do it? No. Eleven cops one one traffic stop is excessive, even if you were the guy they were looking for. But because your name matched with one on a "hot file", they have to take the extra measure that they did. There is a system called soundexing that some law enforcement agencies that tips off officers if someone is wanted or if they have any "red flags" as you stated attached to their name. This allows them to assess the situation accordingly. Soundexing isn't 100% accurate as it sometimes hits on some of the information. What the soundex system does is it compiles names but in a different manner. It takes out all vowels and designates a code to the number of constanants in a name as well with the corrosponding DOB. Due to this, sometimes a warrants pops up for some that isn't them.
For example, lets say Smith, John C with a DOB of 050578 is run through soundex. A hit on a warrant might appear for this person but when the warrant info is read it is for a Smith, James C with a DOB of 050577. Although they are not the same guy the soundex hits on it anyways because they are similar once the vowels are taken out and the codes are check on the DOB's. If its not as obvious as the above example, other info attached to both the warrant and the name that was run (if they have any valid information in the system that is) can be cross checked by using their physical info (height, weight, hair/eye color, scars, marks, tattoos, etc).

As far as your inquiry whether they putting you through a truth test, the answer is maybe. You might not believe it, but a lot of people aren't always honest with the police. Shocking right? I guess this is their way of seeing how honest you are. They're trying to test your integrity. If you lie about something so basic like, [I]"when was the last time you got a ticket?"[/I] it might mean that you might continue to lie about other things. As long as stay out of trouble (or don't get caught) you don't have much to worry about in future incidents like the one you mentioned above.

Hope this helped.

[QUOTE=Foreverlad;1039431]I think the scariest situation I'd ever been in with a cop was after having a few beers while shooting pool.

I had met up with a friend who'd been out of state for awhile. She was HORRENDOUS at all things billiards and the games lasted an hour each, thanks to my not playing seriously.

We managed to play two games and I had 1 beer each game. Sure enough, after dropping her off, I got pulled over. Cop caught me going over the speed limit.

Approaching me, he smelled alcohol and asked if I'd been drinking. I told him I had had 2 beers (which I knew was likely the "safe" answer most people give) and had dropped my friend (I gave her full name for the sake of reference) off and was on my way home.

The cop takes my license, asks me to step out of my vehicle and of course, more cop cars arrive.

I'm standing there, being asked to stand still, follow his finger and don't move. I do it without any sign of inebriation. Tester says as much

"Well, he's not drunk."

I get grilled on how much I'd had to drink.

"Two beers, sir. One per game of pool"
"How long ago was this?"
"It's what, one o'clock now? About an hour ago I left Strokers and 20 minutes ago I dropped my friend off in Lansbrook."
"You sure it was only 2 beers? I can smell alcohol all over you"
"2 beers sir. I don't do much drinking and I do even less if I know I'm gonna be driving around."

Then the cop asks me how large the beers were. He's asking the size and I'm trying to explain they were 2 draft beers, 'normal' container size. 12 ounces, 14 ounces, whatever it is you find in a 6-pack.

One cop is asking me something about the size from way back behind me, I can barely hear him over the others and I'm squinting with multiple flashlights and headlights in my eyes.

"When was the last time you got a ticket?"

"I've never gotten one before"

"Last time I'll ask, the truth will set you free, how many beers did you drink tonight?"

"2 beers sir, I'm too afraid to lie to you."

"Why are you afraid? I'm just asking you a question, I'm allowed to ask questions, aren't I?" If his voice was a penis, he'd have a 10 pound hard-on.

"Because I've been pulled over for a pretty serious reason. I'm worried."

"If you're telling the truth, you shouldn't have anything to worry about, right?"

"Well, yes, but I'm still surrounded by police trying to find out if I lied to them."

"Did you?"

"No sir. I had two beers, you can call my friend Susan right now. I have her number in my cell phone."

"That won't be necessary. Remember, you're a skinny guy, alcohol will affect you more than others. Drive carefully."

-- The truth will set you free? Sure, people lie to police all the time, but I passed a field sobriety test and I have no record.

I actually had a hard time sleeping for the next few nights. It was like I was a rape victim. I kept replaying the scene over in my head constantly, I couldn't get rid of it. Yeah, that's awfully pussy of me, but it really did bother me. I don't know why I had smelled strongly of alcohol, but I could have lost my license for a year, could have spent a night in jail. My life could have been changed in a fairly fundamental way and I was pretty angry for awhile over it.

The law is fairly untouchable on a one-on-one level. They enforce the rules and they live with a daily flow of excuses and explanations. When they're grouped up and you're just trying to get through the experience, you've got a lot of bias and 'likelihood' working against you. That's the thing I hate most.

I'm all better now though.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1039437]Yeah, cops can be dicks. That sucks man[/QUOTE]
Biggie is right. Cops can be dicks, but so can lawyers, store clerks, mechanics, and drive thru window operators. Dicks are everywhere. I think whats worse about cops getting a worse rap for being assholes or abusing thier authoirty is that most times (but not always) they are arresting someone that was caught breaking the law and they get upset about it.

A majority of the time when someone deals with the police its due to something bad that occured. They then take the incident and the experience and then attach it to the entire profession. This is similar to stereotyping. Its like disliking all Mexicans because you were robbed by one once or stating all Asians are bad drivers because you once got into a car accident with one. Its even the same way when men or women have nothing but negative things to say about the other sex because of a couple of incidents that they've experienced left them lonely and bitter.

All I can say is that if you know you're up to no good and you get caught, you should be angry at yourself for being up to no good and getting caught and not the officer that arrests you.

Thanks for all the info.

Like (I hope) I expressed, I'm no cop hater. There's a lot of baggage that comes with the job and a lot of risk, often for little reward.

There's no denying that criminals and law breakers come in all shapes and sizes. If Martha Stewart can be arrested, anyone can.

I'm one of those goofy bastards that waves from the sidewalk if a cop is parked or just eyeing an area. I try to show them respect and appreciation. I don't use drugs, I don't set out to cause problems, and I've always tried to be low-profile. I probably just suffer from the remnants of some childhood hero-worship. When you find out your favorite football player kills his wife and her boyfriend then has a highway chase in California, you start to realize your heroes aren't perfect.

Thanks again,

Mike

P.s- so there's no misunderstanding, I was never an OJ fan. Just an example.