Greek, Greeks, and Greece
The following link explains why I go postal every time someone refers to FYROM as Macedonia. I know that it is too long, so here are the bare bones:
[b]There is an ongoing effort emanating from the FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia), to falsely link the present day Slavic inhabitants of that Republic with the ancient Macedonians who were indisputably Hellenic.
The Slavs did not arrive in the region until the sixth century AD. Until 1944, the area that is now legally referred to as the FYROM was called "Vardarska Banovina" until the Hellenic name of Macedonia was usurped by Yugoslavia's Communist dictator Marshall Broz Tito.
The name, history, and culture of Macedonia are unquestionably Hellenic and a final settlement with the FYROM must not permit them the use of the name Macedonia.[/b]
[url]http://www.hri.org/docs/macque/[/url]
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Brutal] I would also greatly appreciate your knowledge of how your country has seen 'New Europe' as well as Bulgaria, Albania, and FYROM over the years and whether Greece views the newer European countries as friends or allies or even threats. [/QUOTE]
The 'New Europe'... Greeks for the most part are pro-European Union. We are aware that as a small country it is difficult to exist in isolation, we do feel a part of the European "family" (although at the same time knowing we are quite different -we are Europe and Balkans and East... Greece has always been at crossroads), and the financial support isn't too bad either... All in all we are part of something bigger and, hopefully, positive. What we do not like very much (grumbled, bitched, moaned, and got used to it) is the euro and the prices skyrocketing because of it. And sometimes European laws seem to strict for us rebels 
About the EU opening up to new members... It is a bit like the Cult. We feel a little like oldtimers witnessing a flood of newbs. Surely we are better than them... () And they'll want a share of the money, too, hmmm... But Greece totally supports Bulgaria's entrance both in the EU and the NATO.
You must keep in mind that what we desire the most is stability in our area. Greece has always wanted as close ties as possible between its neighbouring countries and western institutions. Particularly in the case of Bulgaria and Romania, Greece would like to see them soon become full members of the EU and NATO so that the greater Balkan region would undergo political and economic development and would gradually begin to rid itself of the label of “tinderbox”, much to the benefit of Greece and all concerned. Greece has done a lot to boost the economies of both Bulgaria and Albania (which isn't a candidate country for the European Union).
But from this point onwards, things get controversial. Yes, the public opinion is friendly towards Bulgarians (less towards Albanians due to the large percentage of albanian illegal immigrants here who get a collective bad name from the activities of the albanian mafia and other, less organised, criminals on the one hand; and the despicable treatment the Greek minority in southern Albania is receiving on the other) and, as mentioned before, trade has expanded and investments have been made. However, there is a feeling that Greek efforts are one-sided and unappreciated. You can read more about those issues here: [url]http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20031014Harvalias.html[/url]
This link is going to be useful if you want a broad perspective on the Greek opinion on Balkan developments: [url]http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/index.html[/url]
(I'm not slacking, this is much more comprehensive than anything I could ever write here)
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Brutal] How are Greek relations with turkey? [/QUOTE]
Oh, we are all lovey-dovey, bestest friends and neighbours, searching for common ground to bridge our differences... Which basically means that Greece tolerates: everyday violations of our national airspace by turkish aircraft, turdish plans to turkify the muslim non-turkish population of our north-eastern borders with the aim to establish a 'turkish' minority in the area, the travesty of the pseudo-state of the occupied part of Cyprus, and so on and so forth.
So yeah. We're pansies.
(Note: most Greeks - not including myself - do not have much against the turkish people. There is some common cultural ground and in several crisis situations the 2 nations have helped each other - during the massive earthquakes that hit both countries a few years back, for example. It is mostly their goverments' policies and practices that leave a lot to be desired)
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Brutal] How is Greece on terrorism?[/Quote]
Fine, thanks.
Joking aside, we had one major terrorist group, "Novermber 17th," that had done a lot of damage for a some of decades. They have been captured now, and none of the other groups are important enough. Read about it here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_17_(terrorist_group)[/url]
First off, our army is ONLY for defense (ok, sometimes we are required to send troops to places they don't want to be, but we avoid that as much as possible). Our only concern is to manage to keep our borders intact and our people free.
Our army is very well-equipped (*giggle, giggle* well, they [i]are![/i]), but their training is increasingly getting worse. The current situation is that every guy over 18 has to do his military service. This used to be 2 years, but it keeps getting shortened; the plan is to have a permanent army of paid soldiers in a few years' time. I'd like to think that in case of (gods forbid) armed conflict, the greek soldiers will demonstrate the same fighting spirit that made Churchill say (paraphrased?)"Until now we said Greeks fight like heroes; from now on we'll say that heroes fight like Greeks." I hope this will never be necessary.
An exception to the 'inferior training' bit is our Airforce. These boys get combat experience every day as they have to intercept the turdish aircraft that constantly and provocatively violate our national air space.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Brutal] I understand there are still pagans in Greece, is there a better name for the polytheists and in what way are they regarded as far as public opinions and other organized belief systems go?
Hm... I think 'pagans' is fine. I don't really know many things about them, they keep a low profile. The public is aware that they exist, and that's about it. They tend to be regarded with an indulging, condescending smile. Perhaps some old people might think they are satanists and fear/hate them, but really, they were never important enough. The official Church (most Greeks are - at least in name - Christian Orthodox) believes of course that they are misguided and is sometimes hostile towards them, but ignores them otherwise.
Here, I found this:
[b][u]Pagans fight for divine rights of old Greek gods[/b] [/u]
MATTHEW BRUNWASSER IN TRICHORO, GREECE
IN THE shadow of Mount Olympus the toga-clad worshippers sway to the beating of a drum as the bearded man leading the ceremony throws a pinch of grain into a torch, then circles his hand above the flames.
While the group, dressed in yellow, red and blue robes, may appear to be taking part in some bewildering historical re-enactment, they are members a growing pagan movement dedicated to resurrecting the religion and way of life of ancient Greece.
The pagans have gathered in a meadow near the sacred mountain where their ancestors believed the gods lived and held court to perform a naming ceremony for a nine-month-old boy, Nikoforos Xanthopoulos.
The bearded man officiating, Tryphon Olympios, 58, from Skliva in southern Greece, was a philosophy professor at Stockholm University for 25 years.
"May he be worthy of being Greek" Olympios calls out.
"Worthy," the crowd roars in response.
Leaders of the "return of the Hellenes" movement say they have 2,000 "hard-core" practising followers, about 5,000 who travel to Mount Olympus, 100km southwest of the city of Thessaloniki in northern Greece, for the annual celebration, and 100,000 "sympathisers" who support their ideas.
The colourful Hellenes are viewed with interest by many in Greek society but largely ridiculed by the media. Yet their unsuccessful efforts to be recognised as an "official" Greek religion highlight Greece’s intolerance of the expression of non-Christian religions.
Olympios - now his legal name - is one of the founders of the revival. He first attracted national media attention when he publicly married his wife in an ancient ceremony in 1987.
"We want to take the world view, concepts, ideas, religion and values of the ancient Greeks, the founders of western civilisation, and adapt them to today," Olympios explained. "The Greek way is to establish a scientific society. Christianity today is hostile to science."
The Hellenes have dozens of websites and books on ancient history, culture and ideas. Ancient Greek language courses and unofficial associations are popping up throughout the country. They also hold ancient ceremonies for weddings and funerals, although only the rites of Greek Orthodox Christian clergy are legally recognised.
"We think of Carl Sagan as a Greek, and all the people in the world who love knowledge and don’t hate others," said Giannis Psomiadis, 48, a medical doctor at the naming ceremony. "We wouldn’t have Socrates or Plato without polytheism."
One of the group’s followers is Cornelia Buschbeck. The 32-year-old from Chemnitz, in the former East Germany, was wearing a white T-shirt showing a picture of a bust of Zeus.
She started teaching herself Greek at 15, and later obtained university degrees in Greek and archeology. She moved to Thessaloniki eight years ago.
"It’s a religion from here," said Buschbeck, placing a hand on her heart, "rather than here," pointing to her head.
Buschbeck explained that Hellenes do not worship the pantheon of 12 gods as deities. Rather, each god represents a natural phenomena or human value.
The movement appeals to many different tastes: for some it provides an intellectually satisfying philosophy, for others an antidote to the Greek Church’s political power, New Age reverence for the ancient or something exotic for the curiosity-seeker.
However, the movement has also attracted a small number of more sinister followers; right-wing nationalists who believe their anti-Semitic views are reflected in its rejection of the Judeo-Christian religion.
Meanwhile, the Hellenes are viewed with disdain by the Greek Orthodox Church.
About 200 yards from the meadow where the naming ceremony was being held, a small crowd filed out of a stone Christian church, following a baptism. When the priest was asked for comment, he responded with hostility: "I have only one word to say about them: idolaters."
The Hellenes still mourn the end of their civilisation in the 4th Century AD, when Christians representing the new official religion of the Roman Empire began destroying their temples, statues and libraries.
"The Greek Orthodox Christian Church is still at the scene of the crime," said Vlassis Rassias, a human resources manager at a bank, who writes books about ancient Greek history. The 44-year-old is indignant that the Greek Orthodox Church today builds new churches at every site where an ancient temple is uncovered.
One group of Hellenes, led by Panaghiotis Marinis, from the Committee for the Recognition of the Greek Religion Dodecatheon, applied two years ago for the movement to be officially recognised. The Greek government has still to make a decision on the application and, without official recognition, the group cannot build temples, have an office, or hold public ceremonies.
"We are the only religion in the world not allowed to visit our sacred sites," said Marinis. He intends to take his case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg if the Greek government does not act.
According to the US State Department’s 2002 human rights report on Greece: "Laws restrictive of freedom of speech remained in force, and some legal restrictions and administrative obstacles on freedom of religion persisted."
Making Greek society more tolerant will not be easy. According to official figures, 98% of Greeks are Greek Orthodox Christians. And Hellenes report occasional harassment. During one ceremony at a lake near Mount Olympus, Buschbeck recalls, the local Greek Orthodox Christian Bishop and some monks led a group of 100 people to the other side of the lake to oppose them. The Bishop shouted at them through a megaphone, and played cloister music through a PA system to drown out their ceremony.
"The Bishop said they would have to throw a cross in the lake to cleanse it of us," Buschbeck said. When the Hellenes complained to police, they were told it would be better that they leave, rather than have a stand-off with the Bishop.
At the Greek Ministry of National Education and Religious Affairs, Konstantinos Kontogiannis, general director of the religion directorate, claimed recognition of the movement was being considered "at the highest levels". But he added:
"We might love Manchester United, but we can’t say it’s a religion."
[url]http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1049692003[/url]
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Brutal] As far as mythology goes I was wondering if in recent years people have discovered any ‘lost gods’ that were once worshipped? Also, I have read much about the different interpretations of the way the gods came about from the earliest. Did the pagans have different versions thru the ages or were there popular ones and less popular versions?
I am not aware of any 'lost gods' discovered, but I really wouldn't know. My 'field' (term used loosely, it's just an interest of mine and I can't say I've done any systematic research) is classical mythology and I know just the more popular myths. So I don't know about the pagans' belief systems either. My suggestion is to search the web to find a pagans' forum - they will be more helpful than I can be. Try this one: [url]http://www.ecauldron.com/recongreek.php[/url]
So, in your opinion, would it be acceptable (from the Greek point of view) for the rules to be bent a little by combining some of the interpretations of the way they envisioned the birth of the universe?
I don't think it would even get noticed... But I suggest that you include an Author's Note to explain the liberties you took if you do.
Do you think that Greeks saw the Romans as thieves of their religion or was it just that the Romans had different names for the same gods?
My educated guess is that the Greeks didn't mind. After all, we do have a tendency to hellenise everything in sight...
When the Greeks were conquered by the Romans, they followed a "if you can't beat them, make them join you" policy, and in a way, conquered the Romans back.My main character has a great respect for the ‘Greek’ people (as do I yet an obvious lack of knowledge) and I’m having him use more of the terms you have provided: "Hellene," "Hellenic" and "Hellas". I hope that’s not too much to ask for but your first hand knowledge seems far better than anything I could find on the Internet or in a library. Thanks so much!
-Brutal[/QUOTE]That alone is reward enough. Now make sure you name a character "Pinelopi" and send me my paycheck...
Best of luck with your book.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
Since you are here, do me a wee favour, please.
The British Committee for the Restitution of the Parthenon Marbles is conducting a survey concerning the return of the Parthenon sculptures to Greece. To participate, please visit [url]http://www.parthenonuk.com/vote_now.php[/url].
Thank you. 
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
.JPE "owenwarland's picture")
[QUOTE=lupus]Since you are here, do me a wee favour, please.
The British Committee for the Restitution of the Parthenon Marbles is conducting a survey concerning the return of the Parthenon sculptures to Greece. To participate, please visit [url]http://www.parthenonuk.com/vote_now.php[/url].
Thank you. :)[/QUOTE]
I just voted yes. So when did the British take the Parthenon marbles? And what have they done with them since? Have other countries come into Greece and plundered your antiquity (Romans aside, obviously)? And what have they done with it? I would think you personally and your country wouldn't take kindly to that.
Edit: Okay so that site answered my first 2 questions. But I'd like to get your opinion and answer on the latter half of this post.
[QUOTE=owenwarland]I just voted yes. So when did the British take the Parthenon marbles? And what have they done with them since? Have other countries come into Greece and plundered your antiquity (Romans aside, obviously)? I would think you personally and your country wouldn't take kindly to that.[/QUOTE]
In 1802 Lord Elgin was given the Parthenon marbles by the turks (who were occupying Greece then and who had no business giving away what was not theirs in the first place). Elgin thought the Marbles would look great in his mansion, but later he found himself in financial difficulties (the large fees, gifts and bribes he had given the turdish the previous years contributed to this) and in 1810 decided to sell the collection. The British Parliament purchased it, choosing to ignore the way they had been acquired, and they are now exhibited in the British Museum.
For a long time the British refused to return the marbles saying that the Greeks were not capable of taking care of them. Recently it has been revealed that, due to ignorance and stupidity, the Museum has in fact damaged the marbles. Not considering the damage to the Parthenon during their removal.
What do we think of our heritage being stolen? Let me give you a brief anecdote. When the Greek War of Independence (1821) was going on, some of the Greeks fighting under the leadership of Makriyannis wanted to sell some ancient statues to foreigners. The money could be useful to fund the war effort. Makriyannis freaked out. He just told them :"For those we fought."
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
Hey Lupus. Thanks for your opinions and knowledge... I'm eternally grateful. I went ahead and voted and signed the petition for the return of the sculptures to Hellas. Your heritage is something enviable in the eyes of the world... especially for us way over here with our few hundred years of history.
-Brutal
Why wait? Move to [URL=http://groups.msn.com/liberators]Brutalink![/URL]
Q: What do you call a writer without an imagination?
A: A journalist.
You are welcome. Anything else you need to know, just ask.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
Hey Lupus, if Hellenism is the spreading of Greek ideas, culture and philosophy, doesn't that make this a Hellenistic thread? And as I've obviously fallen in love with learning about Greekish lately, does that mean you've practiced Hellenism over me?
Hellenism is those ideas rather than the spreading thereof.
And hellenistic usually refers to the historical period after Alexander the Great.
You could say you are being hellenised a bit. After all, as an orator (Isocrates?) had said "Greeks are those who partake of our education." Or something.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=lupus]Since you are here, do me a wee favour, please.
The British Committee for the Restitution of the Parthenon Marbles is conducting a survey concerning the return of the Parthenon sculptures to Greece. To participate, please visit [url]http://www.parthenonuk.com/vote_now.php[/url].
Thank you. :)[/QUOTE]
I voted, signed, and posted the link on DetroitGreeks. Hopefully we can make a difference.
Hey Lupus, if the proper name of Greece is Hellas, then from where is the name "Greece" derived?
Teach, I would guess from the Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations. Let's see if I'm right when Lupus shows up.
[i]Greek[/i] is a form of the Latin [i]Graecus[/i], which in various modifications (grieche, grec, greco, etc.) is used in all Western languages. Graecus is [i]Graikos[/i], an older name for the people. Graikos was a mythical son of Thessalos. Or, since this should be rather understood as derived inversely (the person as an eponymous myth from the race), various other derivations have been proposed. Graikos (a form Hraikos also exists) is said to have meant originally "shaggy-haired," or "freeman," or dweller in a valley" (W. Pape, "Worterbuch der griechischen Eigennamen," 3rd ed., Brunswick, 1870, s.v. Graikoi).
The first people so called were the people of Dodona in Epirus, then the Greeks in general. After the common use of the other name, Hellene, this one still survived. It occurs occasionally in classical writers; after Alexander it became common, especially aamong Greeks abroad (in Alexandria, etc.). From them it was adopted into Latin. but in Greek, too, it lasts through the Middle Ages as an alternative name for the Hellenes of classical times.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
Alright, this thread is kind of slow lately so I am going to ask a question of Lupus. I think that it would be cool if you explained what everything on the Greek flag meant. I know we talked about it once, but everybody else might want to know too.
[QUOTE=PGoutis01]Alright, this thread is kind of slow lately so I am going to ask a question of Lupus. I think that it would be cool if you explained what everything on the Greek flag meant. I know we talked about it once, but everybody else might want to know too. ;)[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.ahepa20.org/~dop159/img/greek-flag.gif[/img]
[i]The design, symbols and pattern of the Flag[/i]
The stripes represent the number of the syllables in the phrase: Eleftheria i Thanatos (Liberty or Death). Liberty or Death was the motto during the years of the Hellenic Revolution against the Ottoman Empire in the 19nth century [Others claim that the stripes reflect the number of letters in the Greek word for Freedom Eleftheria]. The striped pattern was chosen because of its similarity with the wavy sea that surrounds the shores of Greece. The interchange of blue and white colors makes the Greek Flag on a windy day to look like the Aegean Pelagos (sea). The Hellenic Square Cross that rests on the upper left-side of the flag and occupies one fourth of the total area demonstrates the respect and the devotion the Hellenic people have for the Greek Orthodox Church and signifies the important role of Christianity in the formation of the modern Hellenic Nation. Today, Christianity is still the dominant religion among Greeks. Therefore, the significance of the cross is justified, even for those of us who are atheists.
[i]The colors of the Flag[/i]
Blue and White. These two colors symbolize the blue of the Hellenic Sea and the Whiteness of its restless waves. According to the mythic legends, the Goddess of Beauty and Love, Aphrodite (Venus) emerged from these waves. In addition, it reflects the blue of the Hellenic Sky and the White of the few clouds in it. There are some who speculate that the blue and white symbolize the similar color of the clothing (vrakes) of the Greek sailors during the War of Independence.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
Hey Lupus, I start teaching The Odyssey in about a week, and I was wondering if you could help me with the etymological breakdowns on a few of the characters' names (as you were already cool enough to tell me from where Penelope's name derives). If you could break down any of the following for me it would be a great service that I would kindly appreciate.
Telemachus
Laertes
Polyphemus
Odysseus (I know his name has become synonymous with the journey, but don't know if that's what it originally meant)
Poseidon
Laestrygonians
And I can't remember the name of the head suitor.
If memory serves correctly, Antinous was the head suitor's name. Does that have any breakdown?
[QUOTE=owenwarland]If memory serves correctly, Antinous was the head suitor's name. Does that have any breakdown?[/QUOTE]
I thought he was the lover of a Roman Emperor, the one to whom the statues and pool were dedicated after said emperor drown him in the Nile?
EDIT: Yeah, I'm right. It was Hadrian who was the emperor.
[url]http://ladyhedgehog.hedgie.com/antinous.html[/url]
Gotta love that wall.
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
[QUOTE=Parkaboy]I thought he was the lover of a Roman Emperor, the one to whom the statues and pool were dedicated after said emperor drown him in the Nile?
EDIT: Yeah, I'm right. It was Hadrian who was the emperor.
[url]http://ladyhedgehog.hedgie.com/antinous.html[/url]
Gotta love that wall.[/QUOTE]
And it's also the name of the head suitor for Pinelopi's hand in The Odyssey.
Edit: Penelope's hand.
[QUOTE=owenwarland]And it's also the name of the head suitor for Pinelopi's hand in The Odyssey.[/QUOTE]
The real verison has more ambitious tragedy to it.
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
[QUOTE=owenwarland]And it's also the name of the head suitor for Pinelopi's hand in The Odyssey.[/QUOTE]
Is Pinelopi the Greek spelling?
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Is Pinelopi the Greek spelling?[/QUOTE]
Oops. I believe so. But Lupus could confirm that better than I.
[QUOTE=owenwarland]Oops. I believe so. But Lupus could confirm that better than I.[/QUOTE]
So it was a mistake? The English teacher meant to spell it Penelope? As in The Odyssey?
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
Much like the tale of Hades, Persephone and Demeter, I believe the gods of the underworld have dragged this thread down to join them (at least as long as Lupus' school year last), making the place a dread, wintry solitude, until Lupus returns to bring new flora to the earth.
And I never got my etymology questions answered about the character names from The Odyssey. 
Can you tell me anything on Hades. I know a little from The Odyssey, the movie, but all you see is flames.
With enough soap one could blow up just about anything.
Tell me a little about that Greek equivalent of Halloween I've seen you discuss elsewhere. Isn't it in February?
My teacher said that all Greek plays were completely devoid of any other meanings other than the actions of the plot. She seems to believe that at no time are any of the plays not based on violent and bloody actions. I personally, believe that with plays like Oedipus Rex, Sophocles was looking at the human self and human reaction, rather than Oedipus just simply murdering his father. It doesn't seem logical to me that such a intelligent group of people like the ancient Greeks would only be interested in blood shedding plays and slapstick comedies. Do I have any ground to stand on? What was the main focus on the ancient Greek plays, tragedies especially?
[QUOTE=Jeebus]My teacher said that all Greek plays were completely devoid of any other meanings other than the actions of the plot. She seems to believe that at no time are any of the plays not based on violent and bloody actions. I personally, believe that with plays like Oedipus Rex, Sophocles was looking at the human self and human reaction, rather than Oedipus just simply murdering his father. It doesn't seem logical to me that such a intelligent group of people like the ancient Greeks would only be interested in blood shedding plays and slapstick comedies. Do I have any ground to stand on? What was the main focus on the ancient Greek plays, tragedies especially?[/QUOTE]
What, in your mind, is unintelligent about bloodshed and slapstick? Sophocles, Shakespeare, David Lynch, Thomas Pynchon, or the very Greek Jeffrey Eugenides, they're all using the same toolbox, if at times for different effect. I was writing movie reviews when 'Mixed Nuts' came out, and got that worn out thrill of going to a preview, wrote it up and found out the day after that I was the only critic in KC who found anything remotely good to say about it. I loved it, in fact, but I recognized something in it that none of the other crtics seemed to pick up on: it was, in Sophocles' world, a true black comedy. Critics and the general public (who are more alike than most critics will admit), complained that the film lacked sympathetic characters. Well, by rule, a black comedy can't have any sympathetic characters. The typical cheat (and it was true of Mixed Nuts as well) is to use moral relativism to give the audience a less horrible outcome to hope for, but the anti-hero, the deus-ex-machina, and so on goes back to the Greeks and probalby to cultures that didn't write shit down.
Likewise, the Three Stooges were fucking brilliant. They didn't do anything new, and by the time they were being filmed in color they were redoing their own skits, but they understood human limitations, perceptions and the thin veil of civilization, and exploited it to great effect. So did Charlie Chaplain and Buster Keaton, and God only knows how many Vaudeville actors who never made it to the screen.
For that matter, Tom Wolfe's 'Bonfire of the Vanities' could be seen as a 1980s comedy of errors (or a comedy of manners, depending on your mood), which would harken back to Dickens & the Victorians, which would harken back to Shakespeare and inevitably the Greeks.
Anything in modern literature, especially bloodbaths and slapstick, that is not plausibly derivative of Greek antiquity, I'd be glad to hear about it. The closest thing I can think of is 'Confederacy of Dunces,' which from what I've been able to gather of French 'Gargantua' lore is still a modern retelling of an ancient tale, and there is probably a Greek analog for 'Gargantua' that I'm missing.
When we call soccer 'football' the terrorists have won.
I don't have much time, and I'm also quite drunk, so no one is going to get thorough answers.
Parkaboy: "Pinelopi" isn't the Greek spelling of Penelope, since we have got our own alphabet and do not use the latin one. It is, however, the closest phonetic spelling (in latin characters) of the Greek "Πηνελόπη."
Owen: Carnival takes place just before Lent in Greece (so yeah, around February/March). Of course it's a remainder of pagan/Dionysian ceremonies and celebration so the Church are officially against it. Like anyone actually gives a shit about what the church says.
Jeebus: I really owe you a less drunk, more thoughtful answer, but I can only give you a couple points to ponder. First, (unlike, say, Jacobean tragedies)Greek drama rarely or never has actual violence (murder etc) happening on stage. Secondly, Sofocles is very much interested in the human condition. From the three greatest dramatists (the other two being Aeschylus and Euripides) he is the one who tried to depict humans as they [i]should be[/i] - Aeschylous portayed them larger than life and Euripides as they are, iirc - and there's certainly much more than the plot of violence. Have your teacher read "Antigone" - (s)he will find some great lines and fine thought there that have nothing to do with the violence of the play (which, once again, happens offstage).
*passes out*
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/LoopLaLouve/award_met.jpg[/img]
The choir :
"Hear ! Hear ! The lady of many talents has spoken !"
Great work with the answers. Here is my question:
All stereotypes have some truth in them, but which bias about Greece and Greeks, do you think is most wrong? Or which one would you most want to change?
Greek history, mythology, or current social functions... the general goings-on for people in greece are all things i am informed about, as I lived there untill a few months ago. My greatest knowledge is the current 'scenes' in greece.
Any questions?
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The number one stereotype about greece is not really all that much about the people, or the culture, instead it is the location and climate. Because it is in the medeterainian, everyone assumes that the climate is amazing year round, they expect to go and get a tan even during december. Three of the past four years there have been serious snowstorms in athens, getting as much as four feet of snow in one week, leaving the infrastructure unable to function, and a lot of dissapointed tourists. There is a vibrant community for skiing and snowboarding, which many athenians do currently, and frequently. I personally go sking once a week from my home in Athens, waking up at 5AM and taking a 3 hour bus ride to the slopes, and leaving at 4. This is the most consistant stereotype I have seen yet.
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[QUOTE=Ioota Rhoo]Great work with the answers. Here is my question:
All stereotypes have some truth in them, but which bias about Greece and Greeks, do you think is most wrong? Or which one would you most want to change?[/QUOTE]
After a long absence from this thread, I'm kinda back.
But to be able to better answer the question, I need YOU to give me the stereotypes and biases about Greece/Greeks you are aware of. For all I know, people might think we're still wearing togas.
Stereotypes Greeks often have about Greeks:
--> We are kinda trapped between the West and the East, the eastern side of us being what makes us lazy and disorganised. This is viewed both as positive and negative. So we might moan about how Greeks do not respect queues or aren't punctual as much as the Brits are (or at least our [i]idea[/i] of Brits), but we also smile inwardly for being laid back and not having a stick up our arse.
--> We will bicker and bicker and bicker among ourselves until a crisis occurs to unite us.
--> We are fairly temperamental, loud, and use a lot of gestures.
--> When abroad, we gravitate towards our own people and form tight groups. Outsiders are often welcome, but tend to become hellenised after a while, because, honestly, who can resist us?
--> Compared to, say, our idea of the Swedes, we are traditional and old-fashioned.
--> Stereotypical female body type: hourglass figure. Or, worse, just broad hips and big ass.
--> Quite a few men are mommy's boys. Also a Greek mother-in-law is either heaven-sent or one's worst nightmare come true.
That's all I can think of now.
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[QUOTE=Brutal] This may seem like a question of lesser potency but do weather patterns usually come from the northwest or southwest from the Ionian to the Aegean? [/QUOTE]
I don't know if this helps, but the summer winds in the Aegean are generally N, NE and NW, and in the Ionian, the main summer wind is NW.
More to come in the next couple of days - the time in Greece is 9:30am now... time for bed.
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