Ten Commandments of Writing

64 replies jump to bottom
xec8
Godder than God
xec8's picture
From: The Pearly Gates
Joined: 04/26/2005
User offline. Last seen 24 weeks 3 days ago.

I think we had a thread like this once. Can't find it.

What are some important, non-generic rules you follow when writing? Advice you'd give yourself if you could take your own advice, which isn't always possible?

1. Temper cruelty with moral uprightness. Be cruel to the world, but kind to your characters. Be kind to your readers, but cruel to your characters. Be cruel to your readers, but have the world's best interests at heart.

2. A safe guideline for rule-breaking is: For every four literary conventions you follow, break one. Too little rebellion is as boring as too much. Break this rule as well, but not just for the sake of breaking it.

3. Try writing in response to another novel. The dialogue between the two could amount to something greater than either.

4. Read some of the world's great aphorists. An aphorism, when it's well crafted, contains good lessons in writing.

5. If you are not arrogant enough to want to surpass your inspirations, and if you aren't humble enough to accept the help it takes to get there, you may be boring.

6. Read good literary criticism. Try your hand at the art of writing about sophisticated concepts accessibly. It helps.

7. Recoil in horror every once in a while. Be amazed. Get your feelings hurt. Regret something new.

8. Hate other writers but help them however you can. A good degree of competition always helps, but being too eager to win rots your soul. Spread the love even as you envy the successful and mock the weak. Everything should even out.

9. If you don't write, you are not technically a writer. It's not about setting routines so much as getting something done. If routines help, wonderful. If you prefer to write on the spur of the moment, do it. Nobody cares how much you fart in the process, as long as in the end the work gets done.

10. What does it mean to ask questions?

__________________________

thanks for sharing.blackhawk tactical pants.
— Spambot

"I could have done worse!" exultantly cried the murderer Lebret, sentenced at Rouen to hard labor for life. — Félix Fénéon

Grigori
functional sociopath
Grigori's picture
From: Maastricht
Joined: 04/22/2010
User offline. Last seen 40 weeks 2 days ago.

1. You know everything. Your readers don't. Don't skip 'obvious' details.

2. You don't know everything. It's called research. Read a book. Read a book. Read a goddamn book.

3. F*** sleep. Write. Write. Write. Write. Write. Write. Write. Write.

4. Nothing happens in a vacuum. There's a reason things happen. Something led to this point. Figure it out. You'll be amazed what you discover.

5. Don't be afraid to kill characters. Good stories sometimes require sacrifice.

6. There is no rule 6.

7. Nothing is perfect. Nothing is finished. There's always something more you can do. Sometimes you have to start over from scratch.

8. Take your experiences and turn them into events. Sometimes the best protagonist/antagonist is standing right next to you.

9. You have the rest of your life to write. Better get started now.

10. Nothing is stopping you. Everything is a choice. Stop complaining about how you don't have enough time, talent, skill, etc.

__________________________

Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either. Just pretty much leave me alone.

~The Zen of Sarcasm

xec8
Godder than God
xec8's picture
From: The Pearly Gates
Joined: 04/26/2005
User offline. Last seen 24 weeks 3 days ago.

THERE IS NO RULE SIX!

__________________________

thanks for sharing.blackhawk tactical pants.
— Spambot

"I could have done worse!" exultantly cried the murderer Lebret, sentenced at Rouen to hard labor for life. — Félix Fénéon

furleyguy
Gordon Highland
furleyguy's picture
From: Kansas City
Joined: 06/07/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 hours 1 min ago.

"Writing what you know" is about as exciting as having an affair with your spouse.

"Your element" is a place you should remain far from when expecting creativity.

Sometimes perfection can meet you halfway at good enough.

The best words to tell a story are usually the fewest.

Understand that eventually, effort trumps talent.

__________________________

monkeywright
Joined: 12/05/2004
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 6 days ago.

1. Action and dialogue describe a character better than any words ever could.

2. The exception to rule 1: Place is a character. Readers need to feel your city (or kingdom, or office building, etc) breathe. Be sparing with the details, but keep the details coming.

3. Every character needs motivation and goals. Always have a final goal in mind for your character (even if it changes as you write).

4. Work backwards from the main characters' goals to get to the beginning of the story. Character A wants this (end goal). In order to get this, he must (insert tactic/plan here). In order to achieve that tactic, he must _____. And et cetera backwards and onwards to the beginning of your tale.

5. Have an outline of some sort. Just as it is dangerous to go grocery shopping without a list, so too must ye not write without a vague notion of where you're going. (even if the list only says "milk").

6. "No adverbs to modify dialogue," he said gruffly. Shit.

7. THINKING about your story can be as productive as writing. Word count/chair time is a nice way to keep momentum, but don't kick yourself if you can't write every day. As long as the story is alive in your brain.

8. Sometimes the best way to start thinking of ideas is to stop trying to think of ideas.

9. Know when to walk away. Just like sometimes, when your kids are misbehaving, you need to lock them in your refrigerator so you can have some quiet time, so too must you run from your novel when it's being stubborn.

10. Love is at the core of everything. Every argument, every war, every important event in history, every motivation is sprung from love. You have to know that so you know where your characters are coming from.

pepper
pepper's picture
Joined: 02/25/2009
User offline. Last seen 2 days 1 hour ago.

1. Don't write about writing until you have something more to write about than writing about writing.

That is my only rule right now. I came to a block so harsh the only thing I ever wrote about was how I wasn't writing, for maybe a year. I perfected a personal art of writing nothing with ten thousand words so beautiful they made me ache to my souls marrow. So I stopped. I got sick of it. I'm breaking that rule by writing this. It is a rotten rule though. Everyday I force myself to not write, because all I have to say is that I'm not writing, I kill myself another little bit. I have to start again though, I can't take this punishment, I'm wasting away by not allowing the curse of all these words in my head to escape.

Rule #1. I have somthing to say. Remember this.

All other rules are merely side effects.

monkeywright
Joined: 12/05/2004
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 6 days ago.

Eleventh Commandment: There is No Such Thing as Writer's Block.

brandon.tietz
enemigo de arco
brandon.tietz's picture
From: #2 Pershing Sq.
Joined: 05/31/2009
User offline. Last seen 4 weeks 4 days ago.

1.) No one will ever write anything that's universally liked. Don't try to win everyone over, but have an audience in mind.

2.) Don't be afraid to try new things and experiment, even if you think it'll piss off your core audience.

3.) Read. Read a lot. Read anything. Read books and journals and graphic novels and magazines and the newspaper. Don't let your influences come from only one medium or your favorite authors.

4.) Write. You're not a writer unless you're writing. Sit your ass down and do it.

5.) Set goals and then meet them. A novel cannot be written in one day. It's a series of days in which you're writing two or three or however many pages per session. Become consistent in meeting these small goals and you'll eventually obtain the larger ones.

6.) Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do this. These are usually the same people who have never attempted anything bigger than themselves, and if they did, they failed.

7.) What you lack in talent you can more than make up for in work-ethic and drive.

8.) You're going to have to sacrifice some of your life to write, but that doesn't mean you need to stop living your life. Make sure you take time for yourself. You never know...it could lead to a story.

9.) Don't ask your reader direct questions/break the fourth wall. I've actually seen this before: "Don't you want to get to know this guy? Isn't he interesting?" Yeah...not really.

10.) Break and make rules as you see fit. No one has the perfect set of advice for someone else.

__________________________

Photobucket

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
pepper wrote:
1. Don't write about writing until you have something more to write about than writing about writing.

Rule #1. I have somthing to say. Remember this.

All other rules are merely side effects.

I love the idea that rules are side effects. They are. "Show don't tell" is the worst for me, and I'm always trying to find ways around it. I LIKE to tell, dammit. Straightforward honesty has a place in writing too.

I am also at a place where I'm writing a lot about writing. I don't mind it, because I've discovered a lot of the reasons why I write through doing it. But it's starting to get boring. I'm bored with even my good ars poetica now, and I'm finding ways around it. But the truth is? All writing is metawriting. It just sort of happens. And if you're looking for it in a text, you'll find it.

Also, trying to say nothing instead of something is a valuable exercise. Lately, I've just been screwing around with ways to break down language, saying something through the act of saying nothing. It's been a lot of fun. I don't know if any of it is "publishable," but I don't get hung up on that. It's been a blast, and it's been a great way to work through a lot of the linguistic theories I've been learning this term. They're ideas I'll use in the future, and that's what counts.

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
xec8 wrote:
10. What does it mean to ask questions?

Your rules are all great (lol @ #6). Actually, I really enjoyed everyone's rules, and maybe I'll get to writing my own today (if not then I'll do it tomorrow).

But #10 is great. I love questions in writing, but you have to really think about how they're working and what effect they have. If they lend nothing to the text or are just "reader stop and think here" cues, they should be axed.

RazorSharp
RazorSharp's picture
From: Ohio
Joined: 06/30/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 18 weeks ago.

1. Write about something you passionately care about.

2. Give your characters enough emotional depth that your audience will hate you for killing them. But be willing to kill them if it demonstrates a point.

3. What you're saying is always more important than how you say it.

4. Every sentence should be engaging and contribute to the overall story.

5. Never use dialogue when it's unnecessary.

6. Never describe a setting when it's unnecessary.

7. Books take too long to read to be frivolous entertainment. If you wish to entertain rather than express a worldview of some sort then utilize the short story or screenplay formats. Don't waste my time with 500 pages of pulp.

8. Never write about people or places you don't know about and haven't been to and expect to maintain authenticity. If you're writing about things that are foreign to you it's best to be silly about them (like Voltaire's Candide).

9. Satire is the best form of humor.

10. Study. Logic, grammar, philosophy, and history are required. As is any subject you speak of authoritatively in your writing.

11. Read Phil's list, it's much better than mine Wink

__________________________

"[B]eing good is a fearful occupation; men strain at it and sometimes break in two." - Ray Bradbury

franc tireur
What's the rumpus ?
franc tireur's picture
From: The Big City in the 1920s
Joined: 04/25/2003
User offline. Last seen 16 hours 33 min ago.
RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
monkeywright wrote:
7. THINKING about your story can be as productive as writing. Word count/chair time is a nice way to keep momentum, but don't kick yourself if you can't write every day. As long as the story is alive in your brain.

Absolutely. Thinking for me is the same as pre-writing several pages for other people. (It's one-drafting vs. multi-drafting.) As long as the thinking takes you somewhere, it's writing.

By the way, I'm in love with Gertrude Stein's writing, because it reveals the thinking behind the writing. Anyone ever read her essays? Holy cow.

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
franc tireur wrote:
http://crimealwayspays.blogspot.com/2010/02/william-shakespeares-10-rules-o-writing.html

Hi!

6. If ye suffer from block, have your mistress take up the quill while you cane opium and give her daughter goodly tup. If ye be nabbed, claim research.

Great advice Wink I also love #8.

Cosmopop
The Pretentious Seattlite
Cosmopop's picture
From: Seattle, Washington
Joined: 06/03/2010
User offline. Last seen 2 years 35 weeks ago.

1. Believe what you're writing with every bit of your soul. Like with acting, if you don't believe it, how the hell can anyone else?

2. Ask your own questions about the world in your stories. Who knows, they may help you figure something out around the way.

3. In your story, you are God. You have the power to make the story better than anything else, or dishwater fan fiction. Make the choice.

4. Thou shall not rape thy thesaurus.

5. Don't have any expectations at first. Expectations result in disappointment. Get it all out, and then go back and revise. When you aren't striving to make it Hemmingway the first go, you'll probably work much better.

6. Never bore the reader. However, don't result to superfluous things to keep the reader interested. A good writer has the ability to have readers turning pages without a thought.

7. Magic. Always let there be magic in your story. Not necessarily Harry Potter magic. But the Christmas kind of magic. Or the spellbinding horror type of magic.

8. When writing dialogue, you slip out of your role as God. You put on your characters clothes. Write as the character, heart and mind.

9. Don't let writing suck the joy out of writing. Remember why you write, whatever your reason is.

10. Stop the excuses.

__________________________

Just keep your head above.

Gregeidson666
Greg Eidson
Gregeidson666's picture
From: Los Angeles, California
Joined: 09/10/2008
User offline. Last seen 1 year 33 weeks ago.

Absolutely. I do a lot of thinking myself. Thinking all day, for more days at a time. I'm editing, and thinking about what I want to say exactly in those pages when I get down to the paper or keypad.

misterwoe
broken machine
misterwoe's picture
From: Greece
Joined: 06/13/2006
User offline. Last seen 1 year 15 weeks ago.

Other than not talking about a first draft until it's finished, here is my commandment:

BIK
HOK
TAM

Butt in Chair
Hands on Keyboard
Typing away Madly

__________________________

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.” -- Nikola Tesla

http://gregoryfrye.wordpress.com

nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.

My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

skjerseth
Joined: 03/22/2010
User offline. Last seen 1 year 33 weeks ago.
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

Why is this?
furleyguy
Gordon Highland
furleyguy's picture
From: Kansas City
Joined: 06/07/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 hours 1 min ago.
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

A fine rule if that works for you, but it's only fair that you also adopt a corollary of that: that you won't outwrite your first-person characters, won't make them far too clever with precise metaphors or prone to flights of literate fancy. It killed me to have to "dumb down" my first book (because I thought it might reflect on my own perceived writing ability by those who can't tell the difference), but in service to the story, the protag was just a dude, not a literature professor. Had to find other ways to get those points across.

__________________________

xec8
Godder than God
xec8's picture
From: The Pearly Gates
Joined: 04/26/2005
User offline. Last seen 24 weeks 3 days ago.

Hemingway has one M in it.

__________________________

thanks for sharing.blackhawk tactical pants.
— Spambot

"I could have done worse!" exultantly cried the murderer Lebret, sentenced at Rouen to hard labor for life. — Félix Fénéon

monkeywright
Joined: 12/05/2004
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 6 days ago.

Duh Phil, they're talking about Giacomo Hemmingway, the failed Bostonian Poet.

pepper
pepper's picture
Joined: 02/25/2009
User offline. Last seen 2 days 1 hour ago.
furleyguy wrote:
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

A fine rule if that works for you, but it's only fair that you also adopt a corollary of that: that you won't outwrite your first-person characters, won't make them far too clever with precise metaphors or prone to flights of literate fancy. It killed me to have to "dumb down" my first book (because I thought it might reflect on my own perceived writing ability by those who can't tell the difference), but in service to the story, the protag was just a dude, not a literature professor. Had to find other ways to get those points across.

I see what you are saying, but you know, writers aren't the only people with excellent vocabulary's.

furleyguy
Gordon Highland
furleyguy's picture
From: Kansas City
Joined: 06/07/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 hours 1 min ago.

Of course. And it's not just vocab (though that's the most visible part of it), but the devices that professional writers use in the spinning of phrase and weaving of tales, those who've studied the craft. I've just read too many books about characters with allegedly-room-temperature IQs who spout prose like philosopher poets. Again, just talking first-person here; the rest is fair game.

__________________________

matthew.odonnell
The Fist Typist
matthew.odonnell's picture
From: Down Undaaaaaah!
Joined: 07/07/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 9 weeks ago.

i think having overtly intelligent protaganists, especilly in first-person, is annoying and pretentious. but that's just me.

__________________________
Tuffy wrote:
If I'm fucking you, it's because I want to merge my soul with yours; regain, however briefly, the divine unity that was lost when we descended from glory and manifested into these clumsy flawed sexes.
nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.
skjerseth wrote:
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

Why is this?

I just think it's the laziest thing you can do to make your character doing what you're doing. Or something along those lines.
Stephen King does this a lot. There was some criticism on DaVinci Code (maybe even Clevenger's rant) where they had shown the author describing the character exactly like his dust jacket photo, down to the elbow patches on his jacket and all! It just drives me fuckin' batty to read characters like that and I don't want to ever inflict the same on anyone who reads something of mine.
matthew.odonnell
The Fist Typist
matthew.odonnell's picture
From: Down Undaaaaaah!
Joined: 07/07/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 9 weeks ago.

let's not get started on Brown's descriptions.

__________________________
Tuffy wrote:
If I'm fucking you, it's because I want to merge my soul with yours; regain, however briefly, the divine unity that was lost when we descended from glory and manifested into these clumsy flawed sexes.
nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.
furleyguy wrote:
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

A fine rule if that works for you, but it's only fair that you also adopt a corollary of that: that you won't outwrite your first-person characters, won't make them far too clever with precise metaphors or prone to flights of literate fancy. It killed me to have to "dumb down" my first book (because I thought it might reflect on my own perceived writing ability by those who can't tell the difference), but in service to the story, the protag was just a dude, not a literature professor. Had to find other ways to get those points across.


well, you don't want to outwrite any of your characters, yeah. But there's plenty of ways to make them as loquacious as you want or need them to be. Maybe make them some kind of idiot savant or some kind of mute that spends all his time in his head to craft images or make them Good Will Hunting.

My problem with it doesn't really have much to do with literary meaning as much as it does I just think it's the worst possible profession you could burden a character with. There's no action with writing. I'll do the writing, I want my characters out there actually doing something.

nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.
matthew.odonnell wrote:
i think having overtly intelligent protaganists, especilly in first-person, is annoying and pretentious. but that's just me.

I think Hannibal Lecter is the exception that proves that rule.
Of course, that is all in third-person, but the description still stands.
Too many of the Super-Intelligent Polymaths that you'd find anywhere in books or movies now are just cheap carbon copies of him.
nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.
matthew.odonnell wrote:
let's not get started on Brown's descriptions.

Unless you're Ian Fleming, your characters shouldn't be you.

edit: This is all for fiction. If you're writing non-fiction then, yes, your character should be you.
I'm looking at you, James Fry!

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

I really enjoyed "The Land of Laughs" by Jonathan Carroll, and it has a writer as the protagonist. Not a super serious one, but one who is working on a biography of his favorite writer.

Ugh, I tried to read Paul Auster's new book, and it had a writer for its protagonist. One whose life was a lot like Auster's. Ok, I love Paul Auster. He's pretentious, but I've enjoyed all of his other work (though I've yet to get to his autobiographical stuff). But anyway, big let down.

PGoutis01
MOD
PGoutis01's picture
From: Michigan
Joined: 06/03/2004
User offline. Last seen 12 hours 48 min ago.

Just a reminder that this IS in the Research Forum. Great topic Phil!

__________________________
188416 wrote:
Nachos, every day! Dying sounds great, I don't know why people get so upset about it.
nathaniel parker
Sprung
nathaniel parker's picture
From: Outer spiral arm of Milky Way
Joined: 06/24/2005
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 1 day ago.
RandomThought wrote:
nathaniel parker wrote:
My only rule is: Thou shalt not have a writer for your protagonist.

I really enjoyed "The Land of Laughs" by Jonathan Carroll, and it has a writer as the protagonist. Not a super serious one, but one who is working on a biography of his favorite writer.

Ugh, I tried to read Paul Auster's new book, and it had a writer for its protagonist. One whose life was a lot like Auster's. Ok, I love Paul Auster. He's pretentious, but I've enjoyed all of his other work (though I've yet to get to his autobiographical stuff). But anyway, big let down.


There's certainly exceptions to the rule. Misery is a pretty good third-person story with a writer. Also pretty much everything Henry Miller has done.
It's just extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
mavtj
#No retreat/No regrets#
mavtj's picture
From: London
Joined: 08/14/2008
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 2 days ago.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fictio...

__________________________

#I have given you the fire of my youth/And the triumph o're my enemies#

mavtj
#No retreat/No regrets#
mavtj's picture
From: London
Joined: 08/14/2008
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 2 days ago.
RandomThought wrote:

By the way, I'm in love with Gertrude Stein's writing, because it reveals the thinking behind the writing. Anyone ever read her essays? Holy cow.

What essays would these be? I'm a craft essay whore.

__________________________

#I have given you the fire of my youth/And the triumph o're my enemies#

RazorSharp
RazorSharp's picture
From: Ohio
Joined: 06/30/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 18 weeks ago.

I kind of agree with Nate, but I think every author should be allowed one exception and it can't be their first published work. Let's face it, writing about a writer is masturbation. It's being too lazy to court and commit to creativity. It's extended daydreaming. It's almost as bad as how Robin Cook writes about doctors, John Grisham writes about lawyers, and Satan's Bride J.K. Rowling writes about witches. But at least with those examples they're writing about their alternate professions, whereas all writers are writers.

The worst is the crime novelist who the police depend on to solve crimes. There are too many Murder, She Wrote clones.

Of course, I'm guilty of enjoying many novels about writers. I'm a hypocrite Sad

__________________________

"[B]eing good is a fearful occupation; men strain at it and sometimes break in two." - Ray Bradbury

RazorSharp
RazorSharp's picture
From: Ohio
Joined: 06/30/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 18 weeks ago.
mavtj wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one

I've read this before. I hated almost all of those lists. Especially the ones that say "NEVER do this - but it was okay when so-and-so did it."

Then there are just the absurdly dumb ones: "Don't write in public places." or "Have fun." or "Don't have children."

__________________________

"[B]eing good is a fearful occupation; men strain at it and sometimes break in two." - Ray Bradbury

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
mavtj wrote:
RandomThought wrote:

By the way, I'm in love with Gertrude Stein's writing, because it reveals the thinking behind the writing. Anyone ever read her essays? Holy cow.

What essays would these be? I'm a craft essay whore.

There's a book available by Stein called "How to Write."

This is from an essay of hers called "Composition as Explanation." I'll preface this by saying she's not for everyone, but she has a unique way of talking about craft, that's for sure.

In this natural way of creating it then that i was simply different being alike it was simply different, this kept on leading one to lists. Lists naturally for awhile and by lists I mean a series. More and more in going back over what was done at this time I find that I naturally kept simply different as an intention. Whether there was or whether there was not a continuous present did not then any longer trouble me there was or there was not, and using everything no longer troubled me if everything is alike using everything could no longer trouble me and beginning again and again could no longer trouble me because if lists were inevitable if series were inevitable and the whole of it was inevitable beginning again and again could not trouble me so then with nothing to trouble me I very completely began naturally since everything is alike making it as simply different naturally as simply different as possible.

mavtj
#No retreat/No regrets#
mavtj's picture
From: London
Joined: 08/14/2008
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 2 days ago.
RazorSharp wrote:
mavtj wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one

I've read this before. I hated almost all of those lists. Especially the ones that say "NEVER do this - but it was okay when so-and-so did it."

Then there are just the absurdly dumb ones: "Don't write in public places." or "Have fun." or "Don't have children."

According to the accompanying podcast, they were all pooled together for a deadline with an unexpected over-response, so I'd take them with a pinch of salt.

Appreciate the principle, but go against it if it doesn't work for you.

__________________________

#I have given you the fire of my youth/And the triumph o're my enemies#

mavtj
#No retreat/No regrets#
mavtj's picture
From: London
Joined: 08/14/2008
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 2 days ago.
RandomThought wrote:

This is from an essay of hers called "Composition as Explanation." I'll preface this by saying she's not for everyone, but she has a unique way of talking about craft, that's for sure.

Hmm. Does she have anything less cryptic, or that pretty much how she rolls?

__________________________

#I have given you the fire of my youth/And the triumph o're my enemies#

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
mavtj wrote:
RandomThought wrote:

This is from an essay of hers called "Composition as Explanation." I'll preface this by saying she's not for everyone, but she has a unique way of talking about craft, that's for sure.

Hmm. Does she have anything less cryptic, or that pretty much how she rolls?

Pretty much how she rolls. It's very interesting, because she makes a lot of points in what I think is one of the more exact approaches. If you don't know who she is, it's at least worth knowing.

mavtj
#No retreat/No regrets#
mavtj's picture
From: London
Joined: 08/14/2008
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 2 days ago.
RandomThought wrote:

Pretty much how she rolls. It's very interesting, because she makes a lot of points in what I think is one of the more exact approaches. If you don't know who she is, it's at least worth knowing.

Yeah, sure. I've been dipping my research toe a little reasearch of the "Lost" and "Blank" generations, and find she's linked to these ideas, which is quite tidy. Just wondered if she was more accessible in her commentary of craft.

__________________________

#I have given you the fire of my youth/And the triumph o're my enemies#

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
mavtj wrote:
Yeah, sure. I've been dipping my research toe a little reasearch of the "Lost" and "Blank" generations, and find she's linked to these ideas, which is quite tidy. Just wondered if she was more accessible in her commentary of craft.

That quote was an example of her writing about her writing process, which is something that, in general, she apparently wasn't fond of doing. She didn't ever clearly state her poetics; they're all like that. I find it really fascinating to hear her speeches. They sound so natural. I couldn't find links to any sound files, but they're out there somewhere.

monkeywright
Joined: 12/05/2004
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 6 days ago.

Addendum (because I've seen a few too many of these here, there and everywhere):

1. Don't write about your lack of ability to write. I swear if I had a dime for every blog post, article, or anything in general where a writer is complaining about sitting in their chair, unable to make the words come, wondering what to write about and getting frustrated, I would be a rich man. Why reinforce the notion in y7our mind that you're unable to write? If you can't think of something, go do something else and keep your fingers still for a while. Fuck's sake!

matthew.odonnell
The Fist Typist
matthew.odonnell's picture
From: Down Undaaaaaah!
Joined: 07/07/2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 9 weeks ago.

i don't get the 'i have nothing to write' thing. i mean, just write anything. tell a story from your childhood. write an opinion piece on something that is getting you going. it doesn't always have to be a fictional masterpiece. if you're writing you're writing, regarless of what it is. and it's all inspiring and experience, so stop writing about not being able to write or stop not actually writing and just put your fingers on the keys and let them tap, baby.

__________________________
Tuffy wrote:
If I'm fucking you, it's because I want to merge my soul with yours; regain, however briefly, the divine unity that was lost when we descended from glory and manifested into these clumsy flawed sexes.
pepper
pepper's picture
Joined: 02/25/2009
User offline. Last seen 2 days 1 hour ago.

That is what I was getting at sort of with my first post in this topic.

Stop writing about not writing. IT IS FUCKING STUPID AND ANNOYING. If it is the only thing you have to write about then just stop.

Ocassionally writing about not writing is ok, if it is used to get over the hump of feeling like you can't come up with the words you want... within a paragraph or two it should bleed easily into actually writing about other things, if it doesn't then go do something else.

RandomThought
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 09/23/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 47 weeks ago.
pepper wrote:
That is what I was getting at sort of with my first post in this topic.

Stop writing about not writing. IT IS FUCKING STUPID AND ANNOYING. If it is the only thing you have to write about then just stop.

Ocassionally writing about not writing is ok, if it is used to get over the hump of feeling like you can't come up with the words you want... within a paragraph or two it should bleed easily into actually writing about other things, if it doesn't then go do something else.

Yes, it should lead to something else. Otherwise it's probably boring. I feel that way about writing about many topics, especially romantic entanglements or lack thereof.

ScarecrowJack
ScarecrowJack's picture
From: London
Joined: 04/03/2008
User offline. Last seen 28 weeks 1 day ago.

I haven't read some posts so apologies if I repeat anything.

1. Write a lot, even if it's crap and unoriginal. The technique comes out of failed efforts. This ties in with the apparent anxiety many writers have about accidentally turning out something crap. No one has to see it. No one has to know. Anything can be deleted or edited. Just write.

2. This could easily go to another annoying extreme, and isn't always the case, but naming characters is important. It doesn't have to be anything wacky or out there, but a character with a bland name is already a little behind for me. This could just be my stigma, but if you're attempting to flesh a character out, I don't see why the name should be any different. But don't go in the opposite direction and go overly flamboyant and eccentric, unless you're Thomas Pynchon.

3. The disaffected Gen-X mode of writing is dull, and in my opinion will date in the same way that Goethe-inspired melodrama now feels syrupy.

4. This follows on from above: don't use a novel to put over a central message that isn't interesting or original. It's overly reductionist to say that all writing should have a clear moral message, but I do think it should be relatively aware of what it wants to do, and if you can pick away the prose to find something uninteresting then... why bother? Know what you want to achieve with a piece of writing, and even if it's as simple as "creep the reader out", that's fine. Just don't give ham-fisted social lessons or highlight how, like, totally soul-crushing Starbucks is.

5. Doubt and ambiguity can easily be misused, but are hugely underrated.

6. Do research, but don't show it. It's really great you spent so long looking up the intricacies of Medieval history, but does it really have to take up most of your book? Eh? Umberto Eco?

7. Read a lot. Read the classics, and read lesser-known books. Move out of your preferred genre. If you like a book, read everything by that author, and work out what worked for you and why. Read non-fiction as seriously as fiction.

8. It's good to steal characteristics and even whole personalities from people you know, but never a good idea to let them read it.

9. If anyone criticises anything in your writing, it's almost certainly worth changing or getting rid of. If you really think you're in the right, convince them otherwise. If the person isn't someone you want to appeal to anyway, stop talking to them about your writing. Find people you trust and respect. Never take it personally, even if they tell you that you should burn every word.

10. Emotive reaction should come before intellectual, but not at cost of the latter.

11. Write something you'd be afraid to show your therapist.

jugal
jugal's picture
From: Bombay, India
Joined: 01/10/2003
User offline. Last seen 2 years 14 weeks ago.

I think I've read better writing rules on this thread than most other magazine's collective special issues on writers talking their rules of writing.

(Though will confess, I have always loved Chuck's and Elmore Leonard's rules on writing.)

mirka
Indifferent Dinosaur
mirka's picture
From: Tangled up in Blue
Joined: 02/27/2003
User offline. Last seen 1 year 33 weeks ago.

From a reader's point of view...mine. Smile

1- Don't have your main character be a writer, please! I've read some fantastic books like 'Invisible' by Paul Auster, but it always irks me and it takes extra effort for me to lose myself in the story.

2- Don't lecture me.

3-Don't use second person.

4- Don't address me. "Dear Reader"? I know I'm reading, don't remind me!

5-Don't describe anything for more than a paragraph. A page of description makes me start to skim looking for some action.

6- End your book, please! This is my problem with 'The Magus' by John Fowles, the ambiguous ending.

7- Don't use foreign phrases without explaining them, please. Unless it's something obvious like "je ne sais quoi".

8- Skip the cutesy font stuff. Sorry, HOL fans, that book gave me a headache.

9-Be about something. I'm not ever going to finish 'Naked Lunch'.

10-Please don't use "choruses", no matter what Chuck Palahniuk instructs. That worked in his first couple of books and then got old.

__________________________
Barca Boy wrote:
While I was lying on the ground with my head yards away. I told Cujo to log onto the Cult and tell you guys what book I was reading.
ScarecrowJack
ScarecrowJack's picture
From: London
Joined: 04/03/2008
User offline. Last seen 28 weeks 1 day ago.
mirka wrote:

6- End your book, please! This is my problem with 'The Magus' by John Fowles, the ambiguous ending.

Out of curiosity, can you pinpoint why this is? Because I'm the opposite, I love ambiguity but can't really express why.