Radical Feminism

I am guessing a Feminite is a womans rights activist person. Well, I am not 100% sure if this correlates to the topic, but it is a personal experience. I heard a joke that I do not agree with today, but someone said "Do you want to hear a joke?" and when you say "ok" They say "womens rights."

you want radical? [url]www.anniesprinkle.org[/url]

[B]NSFW[/B]

Whats NSFW? I always see it used, I just never asked.

Not Suitable for Work - people have to be careful what they access at the office.

ohhhhkayyy, Thank you Synnove

radical feminism scares me as much as religion scares corellion.

[QUOTE=DAN9108;943981] I heard a joke that I do not agree with today, but someone said "Do you want to hear a joke?" and when you say "ok" They say "womens rights."[/QUOTE]

my mormon friend makes that joke all the time..

I was talking to a Feminist before, and I almost had to drop kick her in the face...

Sorry, poor way to re-account my personal experience. Let me explain:

This woman, firstly, has a rocket strapped to her crotch, and is wearing just a shitload of other bullshit things, and my friend and I walk up to her and ask her what she's all about. She starts off by bitching that, oh, obviously MEN wouldn't get it (my friend and I are both guys) and starts bitching and moaning about women's limited rights (which is bullshit, because what can't women do these days that men can't)... and the only thing that I could think of was, well, if you want the same rights as me, you gotta take up the same responsibilities. She looks at me like I have an asshole growing out of my forehead, and I say, you never hear women complaining about how they to go to war like the men do and die like the men do. So she shuts up and grunts and strolls away.

Anyway, I've had beer and I'm angry, and I need to find a couch.

That person sounds like a bitch. Well, my class was having a discussion about the possible military draft for Iran and all that jazz. My teacher said they just go down a list and send out letters. And some girl said "Thank god I don't have to go!" And my teacher actually said women fought endlessly for their rights, so yeah, you are going to since we are all equal. The girl put a frown on and sat there. Shes a bitch.

Worthwhile feminist works:
[B]The Feminine Mystique[/B] by Betty Friedan.
[B]The Beauty Myth[/B] by Naomi Wolf.
[B]Bitch[/B] by Elizabeth Wurtzel
[B]Female Chauvinist Pigs: Woman and the Rise of Raunch Culture[/B] by Ariel Levy
[B]Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families[/B] by Pamela Paul

You'll find that most "feminists" aren't angry, masculine lesbians. That's a fat cliché.[B] The Beauty Myth[/B], for instance, argues that the concept of beauty is used to oppress women. What sounds paranoid at first becomes moving, alarming and fascinating, and the author, Naomi Wolf, is consistently fair and balanced, without resorting to sensationalist rhetoric to make men feel guilty.
[B]Pornified[/B], too, sounds silly to your average porn fan, but it makes a convincing argument against the widespread appeal of pornographic material by focusing on the [I]human [/I]aspect of it. It doesn't focus on the ethical (or unethical) aspect of porn; it simply shows you how terrifying it can be for insecure women.

Angry, fuming feminists who love to advertise their "feminism" are sometimes just attention whores. It's best to ignore them and deal with the reasonable, eloquent and interesting women who can carry out debates without calling you a fascist, sexist pig.

I've heard women use the phrase, male chauvenist pig. Not facist, but facist may be right also. Im not sure

[QUOTE=morey;943987]you want radical? [url]www.anniesprinkle.org[/url]

[B]NSFW[/B][/QUOTE]

I love Annie. Her 'Sluts and Goddesses' video is great.
She does a fantastic job of embracing femininity
without being a man-hater.

'Radical' anything typically ruins the heart of the movement or belief about which those people are attempting to raise public awareness.

Fundamentalist Feminism is the new terror.

So, is there a difference between being someone who believes in and supports equal rights and being a feminist?

No.

The wikipedia article about it is pretty informative.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism[/url]

The sushi girl I always mention is a radical feminist. You should see some of the things she'd done to Barbie dolls. and especially to Ken dolls. I am not afraid of her. But it's because I don't really see gender and so she likes me.

The authors that xec8 mentioned are a great primer for contemporary views on feminism. If you want the more traditional (and more often demonized) version of radical feminism, look into Gloria Steinem, Camille Paglia, and most definitely Andrea Dworkin. Dworkin (recently deceased) is sort of the poster-girl for the right-wing archetype of the radical feminist. She had a lot of great ideas on the evolution of gender relations (especially in light of the times she was writing) but her provocative anti-male statements can make her work a little difficult to swallow. (The idea that "all heterosexual sex is rape on some level" for example.) A lot of anti-feminist writers take statements by these women out of context and make them look ridiculous and insane. But essentially, feminism simply means the belief that women and men are completely equal. That seems like the kind of thing that everyone would be in support of.

Just to clarify, by the "right-wing archetype", I mean the right-wing's idea of what a "crazy feminist" or "feminazi" is. Dworkin, herself, was obviously as far to the left as left gets.

[QUOTE=Thag;944246]The wikipedia article about it is pretty informative.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism[/url]

The sushi girl I always mention is a radical feminist. You should see some of the things she'd done to Barbie dolls. and especially to Ken dolls. I am not afraid of her. But it's because I don't really see gender and so she likes me.[/QUOTE]

Dude, if you could take pictures of them, I'd love to see them. If not though, just telling me what she did would be awesome. I mean, really fucking awesome.

I'm not going to mention my personal thoughts on Radical Feminism, but will say I dislike Andrea Dworkin.

[QUOTE=xec8;944096]Worthwhile feminist works:
[B]The Feminine Mystique[/B] by Betty Friedan.
[B]The Beauty Myth[/B] by Naomi Wolf.
[B]Bitch[/B] by Elizabeth Wurtzel
[B]Female Chauvinist Pigs: Woman and the Rise of Raunch Culture[/B] by Ariel Levy
[B]Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families[/B] by Pamela Paul

You'll find that most "feminists" aren't angry, masculine lesbians. That's a fat cliché.[B] The Beauty Myth[/B], for instance, argues that the concept of beauty is used to oppress women. What sounds paranoid at first becomes moving, alarming and fascinating, and the author, Naomi Wolf, is consistently fair and balanced, without resorting to sensationalist rhetoric to make men feel guilty.
[B]Pornified[/B], too, sounds silly to your average porn fan, but it makes a convincing argument against the widespread appeal of pornographic material by focusing on the [I]human [/I]aspect of it. It doesn't focus on the ethical (or unethical) aspect of porn; it simply shows you how terrifying it can be for insecure women.

Angry, fuming feminists who love to advertise their "feminism" are sometimes just attention whores. It's best to ignore them and deal with the reasonable, eloquent and interesting women who can carry out debates without calling you a fascist, sexist pig.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have a friend who's a strong feminist. I used to have these ideas about how all feminists were crazy man haters but this year has totally changed my opinion. I want to read some of those books now, so thanks for flagging them up.

Is Wurtzel the Prozac Nation girl though? Because that's no good at all.

Feminism is one of the many avatars of communism.

[QUOTE=franc tireur;944451]Feminism is one of the many avatars of communism.[/QUOTE]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

of course it is.

feminism and chauvenism are quite close to each other.

Also, everyone ask their feminist friends for their thoughts on feminism and then give them to me.

[QUOTE=188416;944446]Yes, I have a friend who's a strong feminist. I used to have these ideas about how all feminists were crazy man haters but this year has totally changed my opinion. I want to read some of those books now, so thanks for flagging them up.

Is Wurtzel the Prozac Nation girl though? Because that's no good at all.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Prozac Nation girl. [B][I]Bitch [/I][/B]is a strange book. On the one hand, you can see Wurtzel is highly intelligent and even funny, and she writes well. On the other hand --- she seems a little too fond of her prose and some of her humour is just irritatingly self-aware.

I am reminded of a brilliant Bill Bailey joke:

Three feminists walk into a bar [ooo, controversial].
The first says "Hoorah, for we have successfully colonised a previously male dominated joke format!"
The second says "Phwoar, look at my massive breasts."
And the third says "Alas, it is a hollow victory, for the jokes are still told by men."

[url=http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm]Valerie Solanas' SCUM Manifesto[/url]

SCUM stands for "Society for Cutting Up Men".

She shot Andy Warhol, also.

Feminism, IMHO, mostly is about equality. Equal pay for equal work, no sexual discrimination, equal rights, etc.

"Radical" feminists are anti-sex, anti-pornography, "sex-negative" because of their belief that sexual expressions are allegedly "patriarchal". Andrea Dworkin is sort of the ringleader, but even she was more 'radical' than most of those who identify as 'radical'.

The current wave, at least in this part o' the country is about sex worker rights, including trafficking, lobbying for legislation changes, abortion rights, etc.

A couple of femmy orgs:
[URL=http://www.now.org/]National Organization for Women[/URL], [URL=http://www.swop-usa.org/]SWOP[/URL]
[URL=http://www.guerrillagirls.com/]Guerilla Girls[/URL]
[URL=http://www.sagesf.org/index.htm]SAGE[/URL] Which is a radical feminist org. believing all prostitutes to be 'victims' and working to get them off the street.

A couple of femmy magazines:
[URL=http://www.bust.com/index.php]Bust[/URL]
[URL=http://www.bitchmagazine.org/]Bitch[/URL]

I may be able to arrange an interview with the Executive Director @ the [URL=http://www.stjamesinfirmary.org]St. James Infirmary.[/URL] If this is still a current research topic.

I think radical feminism is an oxymoron. The most radical feminism is happening in the realm of queer theory (i.e. Judith Butler), and she says that gender is socially constructed, performed, and not essential at all. How can someone be a feminist if their very femininity is performed and not innate? Women's rights is a much more appropriate name.

Anti-porn feminists are as annoying as the ones who call attention to their breasts only to tell you you are a pig for looking at them. Like I'm looking at your tits cuz I'm a male pig. I'm looking at your tits because you have something you think is clever written all over right where your tits are. I'm GAY dammit.

Got milk?

Ani DiFranco comes to mind, her spoken word/poetry segments she does in her live shows especially. She's one of the few people who isn't entirely insufferable for saying 'Thank Goddess.'

SCUM manifesto and cunt.

two "great" books about vaginas.

personally, i am really annoyed by feminists. i got arrested at an ani show one time.

good talk.

There was some article in either bust or bitch mag re: how no one wants to be labeled as a feminist because of the myriad o' negative connotations associated with it. That NOW memberships are down and no one is showing up to fight for abortion rights.

I'm guilty o' that. I totally don't want to be associated with the 'man haters' or the 'feminazis',

There are so many fucked up non-profits, at least here in SF, that are fucking totally condescending and shitty. And historically, feminists do not treat their fellow women very nicely. Esp. current/former sex workers.

EX: [URL=http://www.sfgov.org/site/dosw_index.asp]department on the status of women[/URL]. Which is a group of well-meaning total feminazis who are trying to determine the risk factors assoc. w/strip clubs & "illegal prostitution". They are charged with making legislative recommendations to the City & County to regulate strip clubs.

Unfortunately, their recommendations are based on zero research with actual dancers. :sad: They did get their recommendations handed back to the and they got told to do more research. So it's back to the drawing board for another 2 years.

i absolutely HATE it. I hate feminists. I'm all for equality, but feminists don't seem to be, they want more than men and to be thought of as better, but then if a man says the same thing reversed they feel entitled to have a protest about it..the whole thing is so fucked!! They make me ashamed to be female, but I also have to grateful because without them I'd probably be in an apron right now, helping out my Betty Crocker mother...they just took the whole idea too far and are now wankers.

Under MY defition of man, UR ALL FAGz.

But really, I don't think lumping feminists into one big unit is appropriate. Anyone who knows his history knows that saying ALL the peasants, or ALL the kings, or ALL the Germans means glossing over important details. And talking about ALL historians at the same time often means you don't take their different ideologies, backgrounds and aims into consideration.