Guns, Mexican stand-offs, Masks

Oh, also, without being greedy, anythnig about Disney and/or Disneyland?

The Desert Eagle (.50 caliber, isn't it? something big, you can look up lots of info about it) has some serious kick, but you don't see them in the streets much - too big to easily conceal, too expensive for most. The thing goes BANG like you wouldn't fucking believe.

Cheapest rifle you'll find (round here anyway) are .22 hunting rifles. Check your local sporting goods store.

I'm the resident Disney expert - what do you wanna know?

Thanks, Tuffy.
One thing though. I meant pistol...semi-automatic pistol, does that sound about right?
I am English, and so it's difficult for me to just pop down to the nearest Walmart or whatever. Probably check it out when i'm in Florida, as research.

And as for Disney...Well, anything bad really...Anything really freaky that I can have my character who works as a mascot at Disney (land? world? The Florida one).
Do Americans, generally, know the difference between disneyland/world? Where is the other one? Is there any common way to refer to Disney?

Thanks.

Mexican standoff : I'm curious to know the origin of the name, but John Woo used it many times (The Killer, Face/Off, A better tomorrow 2...).

Tuffy pretty much hit the nail on the head about the gun. Desert Eagle .50 Caliber Action Express fires a very large round for a pistol and has some nasty kick back, despite being semi-automatic which typically absorbs recoil in smaller caliber weapons. The Agents used them in The Matrix, which is probably the best demonstration you'll find of one with minimal effort.

Friggin damn thats the first gun that came to my head too Tuffy got it, the deasert eagle big ass handgun but it jams alot so its not that reliable thats why you carry two em just in case, even though its hard enough to pick up one of those things without using both hands.

Researched into the Desert Eage, and it's the exact gun I was thinking of.
Thanks, youse guys!

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]Ok, people, I know this may seem a little lazy, but I never have found a useful site through Googling on any of these topics (well, actually, I haven't tried the Standoff yet), so I need people with personal knowledge of stuff:

Questions:
-What's a cinematic gun that's not much use in real life, and has serious kickback.
-And any cheap, common semi-automatic rifle. What...caliber(?)...would it take?
-What films can one find classic examples of a Mexican standoff? Is it a Western thing? Anything known about the origin? (I only know the term through Reservoir Dogs)
-Any interesting stories or facts about masks? (I liked the urban myths about puzzles in Stoyan's thread, so something similar would be brilliant)

Thankyou oh so much already, for getting this far.[/QUOTE]

The Ar-15 is fairly cheap, at a gun show, it's a baby M-16 type, chamber 5.56mm. Special forces use it a lot as well because it's accurate and compact. They use them in Blackhawk Down a lot. It can be modified with a kit, I think, to go fully automatic. the SKS is also popular, its Russian, fires 7.62 and can be converted to fully automatic I believe, at which point it's, I think, essentially an Ak-47, though I am not sure on that.

The mexican standoff can probably be found in The Wild bunch, that's where the "Tarantino Ending" comes from I think, he references it directly in From Dusk Til Dawn, but the name "Mexican Standoff, might also refer to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, at the end, when they went down in a hail of bullets with no other option, though they were in South America, not Mexico, I think maybe Belize.

You might want to look up Japanese drama called Noh, which uses masks and ascribes specific characters to them as well as I think powers. Particularly the Tengu Demon ones look cool.

Hope this helps.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Thanks.
The research forum is brilliant, I have to say.

Jsut looknig into that Noh thing now...

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]The Ar-15 is fairly cheap, at a gun show, it's a baby M-16 type, chamber 5.56mm. Special forces use it a lot as well because it's accurate and compact. They use them in Blackhawk Down a lot. It can be modified with a kit, I think, to go fully automatic. the SKS is also popular, its Russian, fires 7.62 and can be converted to fully automatic I believe, at which point it's, I think, essentially an Ak-47, though I am not sure on that.
[/QUOTE]

Just Googled these. Dude, smaller. Like an Uzi. I don't know anything about guns beyond films and games (Which is why they only play a small part in my story. But it's a vital part.) So I probably lead you astray, but Uzi-type cheap 'n' easy weapons. please.

Also, can anyone recommend a good road-trip book?

Small than an Uzi... Look into the Sterling, a Brit submachine gun - not sure on the exact size, but it's fairly compact.

But what I think you want is the ever-popular Tec-9, a fully automatic street-sweeper not much larger than a handgun. Biggest part of it, in fact, is the clip.

[center][img]http://www.actionunlimited.net/images/tec9.jpg[/img][/center]

[img]http://www.actionunlimited.net/images/steyr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.actionunlimited.net/images/SP89.jpg[/img]

Would any of these be available in the early '80s?
I s'pose I should just look it up *goes off to do so*

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]And as for Disney...Well, anything bad really... Anything really freaky that I can have my character who works as a mascot at Disney (land? world? The Florida one).

Do Americans, generally, know the difference between disneyland/world? Where is the other one? Is there any common way to refer to Disney? [/QUOTE]

The Florida one is, specifically, Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom (the Disneyland copy inside of Disney world), and generally, Disneyworld (the massive collection of various theme parks, hotels, and such, located in the one single conglomerate).

As to Americans knowing the diff. between the two, I find that, depending on which side of the country you live, you only tend to think of the one (Orlando, Florida vs. Anaheim, California). That's just my experience though, and I've not spent much time in the _middle_ of the country, so...

As for your character, if you get more specific about what you want, I'll try to help...

BTW: if you're looking for a stupid-large revolver with a lot of kick and power, you can't go wrong mentioning the .454 Casull cartridge (named for the creator, Dick Casull) and any gun that can handle them. Here's a link to the Taurus Raging Bull (there's multiple models at this .454 Casull caliber):

[url]http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=454SS8M&category=Revolver[/url]

The Intratec 9 has been around for a while. I believe the first production model was released to the public in 1980. The Tec 9 (as it's commonly known) is associated with gangs and street crime as it was a cheap, high-capacity 9mm weapon. I believe the Columbine kids had at least one in their arsenal.

As for Disneyland, I've been told (and can't verify this, but perhaps some research will assist you) that the entire entrance into the park (referring to the Florida version) is basically a surveillance center. As guests walk down the street, they're being watched and undesirables will be escorted off the premises. Again, this information is coming second-hand from a friend who works in the corporate security business, so while I believe the source I can't actually validate its authenticity.

Well, truthfully, it [b]used to be[/b] that certain types couldn't get [u]in[/u] to the parks. This included hippies, people dressed shabbily, men with long-hair, punks, and the like. This was less-and-less enforced, and when Michael Eisner took the CEO chair, he killed the policy outright, knowing that hippies' money was just as green as anyone else.

Nothing like good ol' cash to lower one's standards, hehehehe.

I'd read an article in the oh-so-reliable Modern Drunkard magazine that there is a restaurant/bar/club hidden in Disney for the use of the more elite guests on an invite only basis. I dunno if the article is online any longer (I have the magazine at home), but the site is [url]http://www.drunkard.com[/url] Kind of an interesting idea, considering that Disneyland is not known for being a place one can easily get a drink, but that too could have changed as I haven't been there since I was a weeeeeee lad.

Yep. Club 33, one of Disney's worst-kept secrets. The membership waiting list is a couple years long, supposedly.

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]Ok, people, I know this may seem a little lazy, but I never have found a useful site through Googling on any of these topics (well, actually, I haven't tried the Standoff yet), so I need people with personal knowledge of stuff:

Questions:
-What's a cinematic gun that's not much use in real life, and has serious kickback.
-And any cheap, common semi-automatic rifle. What...caliber(?)...would it take?
-What films can one find classic examples of a Mexican standoff? Is it a Western thing? Anything known about the origin? (I only know the term through Reservoir Dogs)
-Any interesting stories or facts about masks? (I liked the urban myths about puzzles in Stoyan's thread, so something similar would be brilliant)

Thankyou oh so much already, for getting this far.[/QUOTE]
I have to say, Dirty Harry still has the best of the common circulation guns.

I used to frequent a shooting range, and the buck and boom of a .44 magnum is a hell of a lot of fun. The exotics like the Dessert Eagle are mainly the domain of hard core gun nuts. They're fairly rare, expensive and require expensive and particular ammunition.

Or, if you're wanting a sniper gun, there are again some exotic .50 caliber rifles out there, but they're very expensive. So unless you need the guy to be able to hit accurately from a ridiculous distance, a Remington DDL 700 bolt action deer rifle is plenty of sniper power. It doesn't look like a fierce gun, but it'd do the job.

If you're going the Mafia route, small caliber guns like .22 and .25 are popular in real life because they're only going to be used at close range anyway, are cheap and widely available (and so no big deal to dispose of if you don't want them used as evidence against you), and the small bullet usually runs around inside the body rather than exiting, causing lots of damage with less mess.

I don't know if it bears on your stuff or not, but the Hell's Kitchen Irish mobsters used to make everyone who was party to an assasination take a shot, which meant that everyone was equally guilty of first degree murder. That way no one can easily turn state's evidence. They also learned from the Italian mob to dismember the bodies so that gas doesn't build up and make the corpse float. No body, no murder charge under New York (and some other states) law. New York may have changed that, this information is about 20 years old.

This is basically a bump post.
To reiterate, anything about Disney or masks would be extremely helpful- urban myths, conspiracy theories, anecdotes, facts, anything.

As a progress report, I have taken Tuffy's advice on the guns, using the Desert Eagle and Tec-9.
I have researched into Noh masks (thanks Parka! I also used a throwaway reference to Butch Cassidy...), and this has become a large part of the story. A horse that I want to continue...
Chixulub, I really like that mafia stuff. While it's not a mafia story, I may well use these ideas somewhere...

Hope I haven't drained you all, and just...thanks a lot.

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]Would any of these be available in the early '80s?
I s'pose I should just look it up *goes off to do so*[/QUOTE]

I always liked the Steyer Aug which was the one they used in The Running Man, and the gun that Karl (Alexander Gudunov) uses in the first Die Hard when he shoots at Willis in the vent ducts. It's an assault rifle but still a weird looking gun.

Another 80's era gun is the German G11 which is a 4.7mm caseless bullpug config. The rounds have no cases the charge is entirely burned in the act of firing. To my knowledge it didn't cath on. But the G11 is fairly combact for an assault rifle, I think it was an assault rifle.

Don't forget the micro-UZI those were available in the 1980's and so were the Czech made Scorpion Machine pitsols which had a collapsible stock and could be fired one handed. Some Warsaw Pact police units even had them as I recall.

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]This is basically a bump post.
To reiterate, anything about Disney or masks would be extremely helpful- urban myths, conspiracy theories, anecdotes, facts, anything.

As a progress report, I have taken Tuffy's advice on the guns, using the Desert Eagle and Tec-9.
I have researched into Noh masks (thanks Parka! I also used a throwaway reference to Butch Cassidy...), and this has become a large part of the story. A horse that I want to continue...
Chixulub, I really like that mafia stuff. While it's not a mafia story, I may well use these ideas somewhere...

Hope I haven't drained you all, and just...thanks a lot.[/QUOTE]

For Disney you want to find to books, they are peeks behind the Magic Kingdom--Disney does not apporve of the books--hold on-- found them...

Mouse tales : a behind-the-ears look at Disneyland / by David Koenig

More mouse tales : a closer peek backstage at Disneyland / by David Koenig

These both have all kinds of urban legends, facts and weird stuff that happened at Disneyland, things Disney likes to keeo under it's hat. I used them for research on the inner world of theme parks once. Loads of ideas.

You might also want to read this sci-fi book which takes place at Disneyland in the future:

Downand Out in the Magic Kingdom by Cory Doctorow, he's got all kinds of info on Disney, he's obsessed. In fact he posts any new shite he finds on his blog:

BoingBoing.net there are several other contributors it's quite popular and they archive so you should be able to track down what you want.

For masks you might want to try looking into the whole ritual/God/apotheosis angel of ancient cultures. Priests wearing Horus heads and all in Egypt. Aztec dewtah masks while sacrifing people, that sort of thing. I'm not sure where you'd look though.

Thanks, Parka. (On masks) Where to look isn't that important really, as, once I have an idea, I can Google.
That Disney stuff looks spot on, is it a common enough book or is this a crossseas Amazon job?
And, as much as I do appreciate the gun stuff, I'm settled with weapons for now.

Having said that, I think that Scorpion sounds even more interesting...

[QUOTE=Terminal Descent]Thanks, Parka. (On masks) Where to look isn't that important really, as, once I have an idea, I can Google.
That Disney stuff looks spot on, is it a common enough book or is this a crossseas Amazon job?
And, as much as I do appreciate the gun stuff, I'm settled with weapons for now.[/QUOTE]

The Disney stuff they have at my library here in the states in a burb outside Chicago. I don't know if you can get them on Amazon.Uk or not.

You might just want to get the first one, it might have enough info for you. The second one is cool, but more of the same kind of thing as I recall.

If you need more ideas, go to [url]http://securityarms.com/20010315/all.htm[/url] and check out some of the guns listed there. Personally I think that Steyr SPP or whatever its called that someone listed would be a good idea, maybe even the MP5K. Have you thought about a suitcase gun? There are some pictures on the lower part of [URL=http://www.hkpro.com/mp5k.htm]this[/URL] page - might be an interesting choice.

[QUOTE=Nith Sahor]If you need more ideas, go to [url]http://securityarms.com/20010315/all.htm[/url] and check out some of the guns listed there. Personally I think that Steyr SPP or whatever its called that someone listed would be a good idea, maybe even the MP5K. Have you thought about a suitcase gun? There are some pictures on the lower part of [URL=http://www.hkpro.com/mp5k.htm]this[/URL] page - might be an interesting choice.[/QUOTE]
Sweet links.

Peace through superior firepower.