Abortion

what kind of abortion?

To be fair people, he is asking for [B]someone who knows[/B] about abortion to tell him about it, he's not offering his knowledge of the subject. It may be a genuine request for research material for a writing problem. Then again, it is just possible he's enjoying the rise.

Fred,

If you're looking for first-hand expert info, check the web. Pretty much everything has a "survivor" story website where people can tell their tale. There has to be blogging about abortions some where.
As for how it is done, are you looking for procedures, or do you want to know how they go once you're in the office? (i'm guessing this is for the WW?)
There are pretty standard procedures outlined at different places. Check out planned parenthood.com, or visit there and grab some pamphlets.
Or, use your "banging chicks" knowlege to get on the good side of a nurse at an abortion clinic, and simply, talk to her. (j/k about the "banging chicks" joke )

Good luck.

(but beware, some of the procedures are pretty gruesome, I had to watch an abortion procedure video for class once. It gets kind of icky.)

There are so many different kinds of abortion! Theres the one where you have a (pretty much) fully formed baby. The surgeon (hopefully) inserts a long blade at teh end of a knife into her and ruptures the "sack". Then he takes that same knife and right at the base of the baby's skull, slits an opening. He withdraws the knife and inserts a vacuum cleaner type thing. He puts the tube into the opening he just made and sucks out the baby's brain. Since the baby is pretty much formed, can move and feel, sense light and dark, temperature and sound, by this time, he feels everything. The doctor sucks out the brains and then the baby. He has to reassemble the baby on a try to make sure hes got everything, then he scoops the baby in to a bag and dumps it in the biohazard bucket. Mother... Im sorry... woman... pays and shes on her way.
Theres another that is very similar, but instead of sucking the baby out, they just cut it into pieces while its in the womb.
Theres one where the baby's limbs are all broken, its spine snapped and its head crushed and then removed.
Theres partial birth where the doctor delivers the baby except for its head. The doc sticks the head with scissors and sucks out its brains, causing the skull to collapse. The baby is removed.
Then theres the saline abortion. This is pretty much banned though, since the mother could be hurt. A saline solution is injected into the amniotic sack. It pretty much makes the fetus change from good environment (amniotic fluid) to bad environment (salt water). The baby is poisoned and the salt water acts as a corrosive, so the outer layers of skin on the baby are burned off. Birth will begin maybe a day later, and the mother will give birtrh to a dead or dying baby.
Theres one that uses chemicals to induce labor, however the contractions are very powerful and usually decapitate the baby. In some case, though, the baby can be born alive. Its usually left unattended to die.
Theres one where the baby is delivered partially through C section. But the umbilical cord is cut while the baby is still inside. It suffocates the baby and it dies.
Pics: NSFW- oh- and the mother usually carries for 40 weeks
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/suctionabortion10weeks.jpg]Suction Aspiration- 10 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/saltabortion19wk.jpg]salt poisoning19 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/abortion18.jpg]chemical abortion 18 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/prolife.jpg]partial birth during[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/abort2.jpg]partial birth after[/URL]

Lets talk. No really.

There is no such thing as an "average abortion procedure."

Well, that about sums it up. You've got vaccum extraction. The suction is basically a catheter like tube, like the kind they suck the spit out of your mouth with at the dentist.
I think with the brain removal one, they keep the head inside, and harverst the rest of the organs. After they harvest everything they can use, they suck the baby's head out. I think sucking the brain out makes it easier for the head to pass through the vaginal canal.
I forget the names, but I think they are known as E & C and D & E or something. I'll have to look it up later.
Evacuation and cutterlage. And Dilation and Extraction? Something along those lines. I think that is when you insert a forceps into the vagina, and basically garbage disposal style crunch a fetus into pieces, and suck out the remains. That only strengthens the suction at the dentist analogy. How you chew something with your teeth, break it into pieces, and spit it out.
I think with cutterlage, or whatever it is, they basically scrap the inside of the uterus, and hope to get the baby out.
If you have ANY questions about pregnancy, feel free to ask me. I have worked very short stints in Pediatrics, L & D (labor and delivery), and Postpartum. I could also pretty much tell you just about anything you'd like to know about the whole pregnancy process from conception to postpartum.
Anyway, check out the saline procedure Judascow mentioned. It's really some horrific shit.
Ironically, almost all of the procedures the Judascow mentioned are in a short story I am currently working on involving abortion. I hope to have it done by the end of the month.
Good luck, Fred.

All of this information looks great . . . if you don't believe the sincerity of the thread, check out the workshop and my latest posting there, "A Secret Kept." That should shut up the naysayers, I'm actually using this for some work.

I wanted to add some detail and feeling to the actual procedure. Getting brochures is about the best idea I've heard, and this thread is a great help.

Track record? Since when does that count for anything in this fuckin' world. Mike Jackson had a great track record when Thriller was out, now everyone hides their children from him.

If you have the time and info, I would appreciate checking out "A Secret Kept" and perhaps critiquing the piece with a concentration on how to make the abortion more real (and I'm not looking for grisly, I'm just looking for realism).

Thanks again,

Fred

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned RU-486 or [URL=http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion/pub-medical-abortion.xml]medical abortion[/URL] yet, also known as the "french abortion pill". It must be used very early in the pregnancy, preferably within the first 6 weeks. It essentially induces a miscarriage (and all the pain and blood that comes with it).

I assume that this topic is open to civilized discussion of the social impacts of various methods. While it was fought by pro-life purists, more sensible minds see its recent acceptance as having the potential to reduce suffering and overall abortions. The methods that TheJudasCow shows us are very real horrors that happen every day and even someone pro-choice such as myself cannot defend them from any moralistic standpoint. These horrors are reduced in civilized societies that use RU-486.

Instead of attempting to expand on these statements myself, I'll link to someone much more astute on the subject, someone whose views are generally opposed to my own but demonstrates greater tact and presence of mind than you normally find from anyone online: [URL=http://www.andrewsullivan.com/faith.php?artnum=20001016]Andrew Sullivan's R U 4 Life?[/URL]

Then of course you have [URL=http://www.drugs.com/MTM/levonorgestrel.html]emergency contraception [/URL]or the "morning after pill", which is not an abortion in that it stops pregnancy by either preventing egg release, disrupting sperm, or blocking implantation should the egg become fertilized. I don't know if this info is helpful, but it is tangentially relevant to this topic.

Absolutely right to include the pill information. It's sad that other countries are rapidly becoming more progressive than America. I don't know, maybe because I'm a rational tolerant person, I don't understand how someone who hated abortion couldn't understand how important it is to have the choice available.

And most of the anti-abortion people are pro-death penalty. Figure that one out at home.

Thanks for the 'fo Jase.

the way i stated the abortion procedures are VERY graphic, i know- but im seriously Pro Life. like oh my god seriously.
im sure that there are more... eloquent (is that a word? if not than elegant) ways of putting it, but i like to make it sound as horrible as possible

[QUOTE=TheJudasCow]the way i stated the abortion procedures are VERY graphic, i know- but im seriously Pro Life. like oh my god seriously.
im sure that there are more... eloquent (is that a word? if not than elegant) ways of putting it, but i like to make it sound as horrible as possible[/QUOTE]
There are no eloquent (yes that's a word) ways to depict the more brutal abortion methods. It's the reality of the situation, trying to hide it doesn't help anything.

My post on RU-486 was not meant to imply you slanted your post. Apologies if that was inferred. I felt it added to the discussion, that was all. Its social implications have merit as well, the outcome being rather non-intuitive. From the perspective of researching for fiction, the more dimensions that are explored, the better, so long as discussion remains civil.

If you're looking for an emotional take on the after-effects of an abortion, I have quite a bit of first- and second-hand experience about that, as my best friend had an abortion last summer.

[QUOTE=TheJudasCow]There are so many different kinds of abortion! Theres the one where you have a (pretty much) fully formed baby. The surgeon (hopefully) inserts a long blade at teh end of a knife into her and ruptures the "sack". Then he takes that same knife and right at the base of the baby's skull, slits an opening. He withdraws the knife and inserts a vacuum cleaner type thing. He puts the tube into the opening he just made and sucks out the baby's brain. Since the baby is pretty much formed, can move and feel, sense light and dark, temperature and sound, by this time, he feels everything. The doctor sucks out the brains and then the baby. He has to reassemble the baby on a try to make sure hes got everything, then he scoops the baby in to a bag and dumps it in the biohazard bucket. Mother... Im sorry... woman... pays and shes on her way.
Theres another that is very similar, but instead of sucking the baby out, they just cut it into pieces while its in the womb.
Theres one where the baby's limbs are all broken, its spine snapped and its head crushed and then removed.
Theres partial birth where the doctor delivers the baby except for its head. The doc sticks the head with scissors and sucks out its brains, causing the skull to collapse. The baby is removed.
Then theres the saline abortion. This is pretty much banned though, since the mother could be hurt. A saline solution is injected into the amniotic sack. It pretty much makes the fetus change from good environment (amniotic fluid) to bad environment (salt water). The baby is poisoned and the salt water acts as a corrosive, so the outer layers of skin on the baby are burned off. Birth will begin maybe a day later, and the mother will give birtrh to a dead or dying baby.
Theres one that uses chemicals to induce labor, however the contractions are very powerful and usually decapitate the baby. In some case, though, the baby can be born alive. Its usually left unattended to die.
Theres one where the baby is delivered partially through C section. But the umbilical cord is cut while the baby is still inside. It suffocates the baby and it dies.
Pics: NSFW- oh- and the mother usually carries for 40 weeks
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/suctionabortion10weeks.jpg]Suction Aspiration- 10 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/saltabortion19wk.jpg]salt poisoning19 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/abortion18.jpg]chemical abortion 18 weeks[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/prolife.jpg]partial birth during[/URL]
[URL=http://www.lifesite.net/abortiontypes/abort2.jpg]partial birth after[/URL]

Lets talk. No really.[/QUOTE]

This isn't really informative at all. Which procedures are used when? Does it have to do with the stage of pregnancy? Does a women get to choose the procedure from a menu?Does it vary by state or country?

he wanted the procedure

but as stated in the picture links, each depends on how far along the mother is
a lot of places wont do abortions though, after a certain week. i was i think, 12 weeks along and the doctor asked me if i wanted an abortion. i was like hells no, but she explained that it wouldnt have been able to be done in new jersey if i had. i think after 13 weeks, its more surgical, and theres more chance of the mother being harmed. and we dont want to harm the mother, just kill the baby.

[QUOTE=TheJudasCow]he wanted the procedure

but as stated in the picture links, each depends on how far along the mother is
a lot of places wont do abortions though, after a certain week. i was i think, 12 weeks along and the doctor asked me if i wanted an abortion. i was like hells no, but she explained that it wouldnt have been able to be done in new jersey if i had. i think after 13 weeks, its more surgical, and theres more chance of the mother being harmed. and we dont want to harm the mother, just kill the baby.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying if I needed this information for a short story, this comment "the surgeon (hopefully) inserts a long blade at teh end of a knife into her and ruptures the "sack". Then he takes that same knife and right at the base of the baby's skull, slits an opening." wouldn't help me out even looking at the photos you provide. Which procedure are you talking about? What's it called? What's the cut off date for that particular abprtion procedure?

its called suction aspiration and its done during the first twelve weeks of pregnancy

These websites summarize different abortions within trimesters. It really depends on what trimester you're in. Any questions, or if you need someone to dumb some of this down, PM me.
Also for your story, consider looking up the definition of aspiration. You might have a theme there.

[url]http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/ab-procedures.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.americanpregnancy.org/unplannedpregnancy/abortionprocedures.html[/url]

[url]http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/pbal.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2362[/url] This website basically takes a D & E, or possibly an intrauterine cranial decompression, and basically gives you more details than the judascow or I could.

I hope this information is detailed enough for you.

Also, I believe there are three main risks involved with abortions. I think they were infections, hemorrhage, and infertility.

You are at risk for infection once you rupture the membranes (ROM), AKA the "amniotic sac" the judascow referenced. If you were concerned for the baby, it would also put the baby at risk for infection. Just think about it. Once that membrane is ruptured, you're leaving the uterus open to ascending infections.

You are also at risk for hemorrhage. This could be due to a billion reasons. If you stimulate contractions, you could wear out the uterus, and afterwards, it will be too tired to contract. It is a muscle. How do your legs feel after sprinting for a long time? Rubbery. If your uterus can't contract, your vessels can't constrict, and you are at an increased risk for bleeding. This is pretty much the main reason women are put on IV Pitocin postpartum...a derivative of oxytocin, a natural hormone that stimulates contractions.

You are also at risk for sterility. If you need that explained, look it up.

Also, there are psychosocial implications. Depression. Grieving. Even if you are doing this electively, you are still feeling a loss. You might even have top cope with finding out you can't have babies ever again. That is another loss.

Hope this helps a bit. Good luck with your story.

Wookie, that's an awesome post. Thank you. I'm going more for the psychological effects, the aspiration is a nice touch, and I'm wondering if women are allowed to go in and have an abortion done alone, and when they are allowed to leave / drive home, and if and how they're completely knocked out for the procedure.

[QUOTE=venterminator]Wookie, that's an awesome post. Thank you. I'm going more for the psychological effects, the aspiration is a nice touch, and I'm wondering if women are allowed to go in and have an abortion done alone, and when they are allowed to leave / drive home, and if and how they're completely knocked out for the procedure.[/QUOTE]
Would you also, by any chance, be wanting to have some psychological views from the mother toward this '[I]choice[/I]' of having/not having a child?

[QUOTE=Cindy Weston]Would you also, by any chance, be wanting to have some psychological views from the mother toward this '[I]choice[/I]' of having/not having a child?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely - and also, hearing from Jane S and her experience with her friend. Please feel free to use these questions as a springboard for your own pyschological views . . .

Did you go with her?

What was her mindset? When was she allowed to come home? How far along was she? Did they put her under and how long?

Sorry for the barrage, but this is what I'm looking for, first hand experience. Not the medical details, but what it looks like and feels like in the clinic . . . one girl I talked to said always crowded, no last names, which I brought in, but did a kind of overview of the procedure and I really want to nail the feelings of the character.

The story is posted in workshop if you want to check it out; A Secret Kept by Fred Venturini.

Basically, I want to make sure that a woman can have this done by herself and drive herself home after, or if I have to wait until next day for the car incident. Thanks for your help, if you can provide it sometime. No rush, and happy holidays.

Considering they let women go through labor alone, I don't know why they wouldn't let you have an abortion all by yourself, especially if you were a teenager and you didn't want your parents to know about it.
I would imagine they would be put under some kind of anesthetic. If you are getting a third trimester abortion, you might be partially delivering the fetus, i.e. where you deliever all but the head and aspirate the brain, ect. Think of this just as giving birth. During real birth, if the baby gets stuck, you do an emergency C-section. Here, you don't care about the baby, only the mom. But, you're going to decompress the baby's cranium by aspirating out the brain, hence shrinking the head, thus enabling it to pass through the vaginal canal. Just like a "real" birth, you're going to go through A LOT of pain.

Anesthesia is really reserved for C-sections. Even then, most anesthesia is spinal anesthesia, which numbs you from the waste down. You WOULD NOT be allowed to do anything except for hold your baby until you regain feeling in your legs. You WOULD NOT be allow to leave the hospital until your bowel and bladder were functioning again, I believe.

General anesthesia, or "induced unconsciousness", is mostly reserved for emergency C-sections. Anesthesiologists don't like to do this, because they run the risk of a malpractice suit. (real life stuff there, believe me)

I would think an epidural would be the route given for such a procedure. An epidural is kind of like spinal anesthesia. It numbs you a bit. You can't feel your contractions. It is also powerful enough that if you need to do an emergency C-section, you should have adequate pain relief. This decreases the risk of having to do general anesthesia. With an epidural, the anesthesiologist comes in and puts a catheter in the dural space located outside of your spine. You basically have a "caine" agent and something else being continuously infused into the epidural space, NOT in your spine. In my opinion, this is the labor and delivery drug of choice for pain management.

You could get an ISN, intraspinal narcotic given too. Or just plain narcotics. These would be like morphine, ect. The risks you run with these are as follows: respiratory depression (a biggie), drowsyness, headache, urinary retention, SEVERE itchiness, nausea and vomiting.

Like any narcotics, a patient WOULD NOT be allowed to leave under the influence or narcotics. This is a HUGE no-no. Say the person leaves the hospital and gets into an accident driving home, you're liable. Nurses mostly. You can not let any patient leave with narcotics either.

I don't know how much this helps for abortions, but I imagine it's the same protocol as labor and delivery.
[url]http://www.reddinganesthesia.com/labor.htm[/url]

If you would get this done because of the risk for congenital abnormalities, i.e. Down Syndrome, you could get an Amniocentisis or Alpha Fetoprotein test ran to look for chromosomal defects. Chorionic Villus Sampling would work too...I think this is done sooner and gives the mother a chance to abort the fetus before she is "showing." If gives her a chance to have a "private" pregnancy, abortion.

I'm not sure about the protocol for abortions either, but after labor and delivery, insurances covers your hospital day for 2 days postpartum. This is really done to make sure the mother and infant are stablized before leaving, and the parents receive adequate information regarding child care, i.e. bathing, breast feeding, bottle feeding.

Hope that helps too. Off the top of my head, that's the best I can do.

[QUOTE=venterminator]Absolutely - and also, hearing from Jane S and her experience with her friend. Please feel free to use these questions as a springboard for your own pyschological views . . .

[/QUOTE]
I can't give you first hand experience on how it physically feels, but I can give you insight into what goes on in your head those last moments before it is too late to change your mind.
16 years ago I went through this. I was exactly 12 weeks pregnant with my 3rd child and only 22 years old (no, I was 13 when I had the first! I was nearly 19) and I was ready to walk out the door. I was going to not have my child. I was pro-choice (still am) and was totally torn to the point of not being able to physically remove myself from the chair in order to get out of the house and head for the clinic. My stomach was in knots and they were finding themselves stuck in my throat with every tear. I was terrified. I can't describe it any better than that. And it's not that I was afraid that I would be put through some terrible physical pain, but I was afraid that I was never going to know that child that I had known was inside me from the day she was conceived.
Brett sat down in front of me and asked me if I was really 'sure I wanted to do this, because we didn't have to. We'd figure it all out.' And it was then that I realized that just because I am pro-choice doesn't mean that abortion is the choice for me.
At that moment I felt everything just drain out of me. Terror drained out of me, and the life of my daughter took hold so much stronger than the terror ever had hold.
There isn't a summer that goes by when I don't remember that day. There isn't a day in March when the candles are lit on her birtday cake that I don't remember it, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't thank God that He gave me Chelsea. And I truely believe that if I had gone through this with that pregnancy then I would not have had Conner 4 years later as well.
I cannot imagine what life would be like today if I'd gone through with it, but I do know that when I was ready to go.....well, I [I]wasn't[/I] ready to go. I can't imagine any woman 'ready' to end her pregnancy. I do understand the circumstances involved with 'why' they go through with it, but I cannot fathom the idea that there is a woman out there cold enough to go through with this without any fear.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I'm having a hectic semester already.

So anyway.

My friend's name is Amber. She had an abortion when she was 19 years old, the summer between my freshman and sophomore year of college. She was going to beauty school and had a falling-apart relationship with her boyfriend of about 1 year.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the procedure itself, as I didn't go to the clinic with her. But I did move in with her for a little bit afterwards so she could get her feet off the ground and I had something else to do in an otherwise boring summer (I wasn't working because I was recovering from a car accident.)

She was only a few weeks along when she had the abortion done, I think about 3 or 4 weeks. Her boyfriend knew, and advised her to get the abortion. (Eventually it was the catalyst to the downfall of their relationship).

She doesn't like to talk much about the experience itself, except to tell me that before she had the procedure done, the doctor showed her two pills and said, "If you take these, you have an 85% chance of aborting the fetus. Would you rather take these pills or go through with the procedure?" She chose the latter, and has told me many, many times that it was the biggest mistake of her life.

Now Amber is in an organization called [url=http://www.hopeafterabortion.com/]Project Rachel[/url], a Catholic organization that counsels women who've undergone abortion-related trauma. Through it, Amber has been seeing a counselor once a week, given her child a name (Francis Jane) and has made huge progress in her emotional state. She's mostly forgiven her ex-boyfriend for wanting her to have the abortion and then turning around and blaming her for it afterwards, and she's managed to forgive herself for having it done.