Why People Are Passing Out
I just got back from the Chicago Printer's Row Book Fair, Chuck gave a reading of Guts, it was great. Two more people passed out. My friend and I commented afterwards that we both felt a bit odd during the reading, not like passing out weird, but "off". I have speculated for a while about this phenomenon of Chuck's story GUTS being like the culling poem, except it just causes fainting... Anyway, it always seemed to me that Chuck might be employing some of those well researched, Tender Branson, crowd influencing/dynamics/fervor techniques that he's on about in Survivor. Coming back from the show today I think he's got some working structure of Ericksonian hypnosis going on.
Ericksonian hypnosis doesn't use the props, the "you are getting sleepy... and such of the stuff you see on stage and think of from Alien Abduction regressions, instead it's subtle and works without you being aware that' it's working. It's not a "now act like a chicken" kind of thing, but could set up certain, very basic trance like states.
This is from a site on Erickson:
"But not all hypnotherapists believe in direct suggestions. In fact, Ericksonian hypnotherapy uses more of what it is called indirect suggestions. Indirect suggestions are much harder to resist because they are often not even recognized as suggestions by the conscious mind, since they usually disguise themselves as stories or metaphors. An example of an indirect suggestion is "... and perhaps your eyes will grow tried as you listen to this story, and you will want to close them, because people can, you know, experience a pleasant, deepening sense of comfort as they allow their eyes to close, and they relax deeply." This would all be said in such a way as to mark out key words and phrases (indicate here in italics) by subtle shifts in the tone of voice. The person's unconscious awareness thus responds to these "imbedded commands."
Guts opens with, "Hold your breath." And you don't, not really, but it sort of sets up your body for that thinking, subconsciously. Couple that with his cadence, and his excellent delivery and you get something that causes some sort of shift in say alpha wave states, and for a few people it zones them in so much they pass out. The graphic language helps of course, the content and all that, but these are Chuck fans here, and I don't think the "shocking" nature of the material is causing the feinting going on, not so much.
Now pack everyone in this tent we were in, everyone breathing out carbon dioxide, intent, fixated on Chuck, his voice, this enthralling story and his use of a little parlor trick Ericksonian technique and there you go.
I got you buddy, busted Chucky P!
But you don't care at the end anyway because it was still cool as hell even if there was a little stage illusion going on.
All right, I know this may seem like a stretch, but I don’t think it is. I’ve been thinking about this for a bit and now I saw it up close and there just isn’t any reason why people would be dropping like flies at these things. The story isn’t that bad. People weren’t dropping at The Passion of the Christ and that had torture and religious extasis going for it. This is more like some mild hangover version of an Evangelical rally, really, really diluted… It’s working the crowd, doing a bit of mind play. Or, I could be reading in too much. But I think Chuck’s having a good laugh over all this and what he pulled over here. I for one hope he is.
Now if I can just figure out how he pulled it off in Italian, via an actor reading the story....
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
.JPG "mugwump's picture")
pretty sly and inventive.
What?
[QUOTE=mugwump]did he read [I]Choke[/I] or [I]Guts[/I]?
EDIT: read what you posted in the other thread.[/QUOTE]
I read that, yeah. He read Guts. he explained how the research for Choke led him to find the last story about the pool in a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting. I flipped the two I am afraid. The other two he said were also true stories he heard in college.
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
[QUOTE=Parkaboy]I read that, yeah. He read Guts. he explained how the research for Choke led him to find the last story about the pool in a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting. I flipped the two I am afraid. The other two he said were also true stories he heard in college.[/QUOTE]
must be much better heard than read.
What?
Here is a bit from Survivor. Imagine this kind of thing played down to a harmless, fun level and that's what I mean in the above theory.
"Down onstage some local preacher was doing his opening act. Part of his warm-up was to get the crowd hyper-ventialted. Loud singing does the job. Or chanting. According to the agent, when people shout this way or sing "Amazing Grace" at the top of their lungs, they breathe too much. People's blood should be acid. When they hyperventilate the carbon dioxide level of their blood drops, and their blood becomes alkaline.
"Respiratory alkalosis," he says."
Now take Chuck, closest the lit world has to a rock star, and everyone clapping when he comes on, everyone jazzed and some shouting: Chuck! It isn't like the above, but a real dial downed type version maybe.
The passage goes on:People get light-headed. People fall down with their ears ringing, their fingers and toes go numb, they get chest pains, they sweat. This is supposed to be rapture. People thrash on the floor with their hands cramped into stiff claws."
.... or maybe a couple of people just pass out from all the hysterical laughing, the hyped up feeling of, "Hey it's Chuck!", the stale air, Chuck's little subconscious cues to draw you in....
"A naturalistic trance state," the agent says."
...now, the guy who wrote this, his being the only author to fell some 42 fans at his reading in this weird way, this can't jus be a coincidence can it?
It's a positively scatalogical X-File. An Enigma, wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in loops of your large intestine....
Unless of course they are plants...
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
Here's another idea: it's all a big publicity stunt, either in co-operation with the Cacophony Society and Chuck or just the Cacophony Society on their own. Maybe the first was rea but then people got the idea to keep it up, to, you know, build the Chuck mythos....
Though I think my little Ericksonian Hypnosis is really good for building the mythos too....
"I hear Mr. Palahniuk gets his face reconstructed every three years, he hypnotizes his audiences, he jacks off at the bottom of pools...."
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
maybe he pays people to do it.
THATS SO +3 STILETTO DUDE
[QUOTE=lofivinyl]maybe he pays people to do it.[/QUOTE]
And take away all his fun? No way. He's a master of the "unexpected".
Is it so unfathomable to believe that there are sensitive people with vivid, visual imaginations residing on this planet; who are susceptible to vivid, visceral stories? Just a thought.. .
or a buncha pussies with weak stomachs
I asked several medical doctors to give me a brief explanation of hyperventilation, or overbreathing, so I could help former cult members understand the effect. The physicians explained that continuous overbreathing, by causing large volumes of air to pass in and out of the lungs, produces a drop in the carbon dioxide level in the bloodstream, which in turn causes the blood to become more alkaline. This is called respiratory alkalosis.
A mild degree of respirator alkalosis produces dizziness of lightheadedness; people feel "high" and experience loss of critical thought and judgment. More prolonged or vigorous overbreathing produces numbness and tingling of the fingers, toes and lips; sweating; pounding of the heart, ringing in the ears; tremulousness; and feelings of fear, panic and unreality. Even more vigorous and prolonged overbreathing can cause muscle cramps, including clawlike rigidity in the hands and feet, body cramps, and severe chest pain and tightness. Heart irregularities can develop, and convulsive tendencies can be exaggerated.
Respiratory alkalosis also causes fainting. People often drop to the floor and are briefly unconscious. While they are unconscious, underbreathing occurs to compensate for the period of overbreathing and to restore the normal acid-base balance of the blood. People awaken limp, exhausted, and aware that they have been through a dramatic and frightening experience.
Cults, quacks, and manipulators have become aware of the predictable outcomes of hyperventilation--the giddiness, the out-of-control feeling, the possible loss of consciousnessm the tingling, and the clenching of fingers and toes. Similarly, they have recognized the impact of immediately reframing the experience. By consciously reframing, or relabeling, the effects, thus confounding individuals' gut-level reactions that something unpleasant has happened, leaders turn a frightening state into a supposedly positive one, telling neophytes, for example, that they are "becoming blissed out,...getting or receiving the spirit,...on the path." In private, the leaders of some of the groups have names such as [i]lobstering[/i] or [i]tunaing[/i], for the clawlike clenching and the falling to the floor produced by hyperventilation practices.
- [u]Cults in Our Midst[/u], Margaret Thaler Singer
Or yeah. What Chuck said.
Great explanation, Spike.
And here I thought it was just some vegetarian smokers in the back trying to hold their breath for 23 minutes ...
"You should be able to have your chicken and blowjob too."
-- Cindy Weston
[LEFT] [CENTER]bona fide [/CENTER] [img]http://205.196.209.178/images/banners/chuckshoplogo.gif[/img] . . . [img]http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/fan/cw/allstars/inkwellGold.gif[/img]
[/LEFT]
I just figured too many people were trying to actually hold their breath as instructed at the story's opening.
When we call soccer 'football' the terrorists have won.
I always thought so many people crammed into a small area, they're already tired and hot and excited and the story just pushes them over the edge. My sister faints every time she sees a needle and to me that seems completly harmless. People react differently that's all.
[IMG]http://creative-escape.org/donniedarko/codes/100x50_03.jpg[/IMG]
[FONT=System]I hate you more than I hate myself.[/FONT]
[COLOR=SeaGreen][SIZE=4]"I'm a uniter, not a divider." ------Bush's campaing slogan.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Six more people fainted in San Diego today. That shit was not staged.
[QUOTE=Atomsk]Six more people fainted in San Diego today. That shit was not staged.[/QUOTE]
Haha ha ha
That is just crazy ish.
Sidenote, I have read this story to a few friends. Randomly. I have not been able to finish. I am always stopped: "No, no more; I don't want to hear any more." Except my girlfriend. I read it to her in bed one night. Or one morning. Anyway, she just kept laughing through to the end. Like it was no thing. But then, she is pretty hardcore. In fact, next to my sister, she's probably the toughest bitch I've ever known. It would be cool if she and I could go to a reading sometime. Maybe. Hopefully. I can only imagine that it'd be at least a little different. Who knows, maybe I'd be the one to cold pass the fuck out 
__________________________________
play hard, like it's work to be done.
In 8th grade, my shop teacher was telling us some stories that had happened in his class. The intent was to scare is into using the equipment safely. However, he told one story, about a guy who got his pinky caught in the table saw and it sliced it neatly in half and into his hand bones. A kid standing right by me passed out and fell completely backwards and hit his head on the tile floor.
Back in the day before computers or video games or cable or color television when we did everything with sticks: my friends and I would play a game called "Make yourself faint." You stand close to a bed (for when it works) and then bend over at the waist (flat backed) and straighten up, really fast for like 25 times. Then stand up very straight, lock your knees tight, and hold your breath. Down you go.
It was that or sticks, people.
Oh, and as always, this stunt is only for professional old people and should not be tried in any way by your younger smarter selves.
Sticks!
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
Im not trying to sound like a hard ass or anything, but I've seen, done, been a part of, some pretty vile shit in my life. None of which ever made me feel like I was going to pass out. But I was in a college biology class one time, and my professor was talking about women and all the fun stuff that happens internally when they are having their period. This wasn't information that was in any way new to me, but for some reason, I got a little cold sweat going. Then I started thinking..holy shit..I think Im gonna pass out. It was at that point I fucked myself. Didn't Descartes say "I think therefore I am."? It was the same thing, I was so sure that I was going to pass out, I brought it on. I asked the prof if I could step outside, he said sure, I got a few steps from the door and just woke up outside.
I've got a feeling alot of this is going on at Chuck's readings. People have heard about the phenomenon, and then go in there worrying that they are going to pass out. Then as soon as they get a little butterfly going, they convince themselves that there is no way around it. They hyperventilate, or hypoventilate if they are so hyper focused not passing out they just forget to breathe, and next thing you know they are on the floor.
Just my thoughts...
J-
Cogito Ergo Sum and the Menstruation Cycle:
A dissertation by JPledger.
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
Hey, boyo-s try living with it....okay, well I guess you do. But for the sake of empathy, just imagine if, when you were about 13 some little guy walked into your house and kicked you in the nuts. And then 28 days later? He did it again. And then 28 days later? For 40 years. You can't hide from him and his steel toed boot--you could be performing brain surgery or accepting the Nobel Peace Prize or camping out in the International Space Station. You could be on fucking Pluto and he would show up and kick you in the nuts. You can look at a perpetual calendar and chart decades into the future when, no matter what, pain is going to strike. The only way out it: pregnancy. And you don't want to even begin to go there.
Why can't women ever forget anything? Because we're living the same damn 28 days over and over and over again. Eat [I]that[/I] apple, Adam.
Anybody faint yet?
My favorite re-rendering of the meaning of PMS: Potential Murder Suspect.
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
[QUOTE=Luddy Dunn]Back in the day before computers or video games or cable or color television when we did everything with sticks: my friends and I would play a game called "Make yourself faint." You stand close to a bed (for when it works) and then bend over at the waist (flat backed) and straighten up, really fast for like 25 times. Then stand up very straight, lock your knees tight, and hold your breath. Down you go.
It was that or sticks, people.
Oh, and as always, this stunt is only for professional old people and should not be tried in any way by your younger smarter selves.
Sticks![/QUOTE]
When I was a kid, my friends and I played a variation on this game. One of us would make the other pass out by constricting his neck from behind while lifting him off the ground. It usally only took a few seconds to cause someone to pass out this way. This game was fun until one of my buddies was out cold for a good 10 minutes. We stopped playing after that.
LIGHTNING EDIT: Satan is my motor........ had to same something evil for post 666.
[url=http://www.sloganizer.net/en/][img]http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,capitalistnihilist.png[/img][/url]
Well then, we've all done the stupid pass out game. Hooray for our dumb asses. I knew some guys who would huff scotch guard until they started foaming at the mouth. One is arguably retarded and the other is in prison.
In Minneapolis we had a pass out or two, and I hadn't heard anything about this phenomenon prior. If Parkaboy's deduction of CP's methods is correct, you gotta hand it to the man. No matter how cheap a parlor trick it may be, he elegantly teamed it with some brilliant subject matter to introduce the probability. I wonder what the male/female ratio is? I'd bet more men.
And then you gotta wonder what else Parkaboy might have unearthed on his treasure hunt. Do we have a potential legend in the making?
Seems like all these damn celebrities keep coming off as groundbreaking when they're just unearthing some ancient set of smoke and mirrors, but no one ever knows! Chuck's probably been holding onto this one for years, just waiting till the apex of his fame to spring it, and become immortal. Color me impressed, for sure.
Goddamn tricky....
Three cheers for violence.
[QUOTE=Mad Daego]I knew some guys who would huff scotch guard until they started foaming at the mouth. One is arguably retarded and the other is in prison.
[/QUOTE]
See, it's all good times until someone ends up retarded or in prision or both. So you kids knock it off or there will be no more slumber parties at this house, you understand?
And [B]capitalistnihilist[/B]? Technically you were playing more of the "Imitate the Vulcan self-defense manuveur" sort of game; much more advanced that "Make Yourself Faint." True faining lasts only a couple seconds, once you hit the ground, (provided you don't hit your head on the way there) your blood pressure stabilizes and normal breathing returns. He was out for ten minutes? Scary. Were you guys panicking?
Jokes aside this has been one of the more interesting threads I've come upon in all my years of tracking down informantion on the web. The idea of turning a story into an E-ticket Terror Ride at Disneyland is brilliant alone, but to figure out how to pull it off. Yes, people are suggestable and yes, the more coverage the phenomenon receives the more people are going to set themselves up for the effect. Still, there had to be the first few "victims" to get the buzz going. It's like the song in the recent film [I]The Saddest Music in the World[/I], based on an early urban legend that listening to this song will make you commit suicide. Like the culling poem idea. This[I] is[/I] legit: there are documented cases of idiots who believed it, listened to the song (yes it is a real song, the lyric is in german, you can find it on the web), and offed themselves. So note to Chuck: fainting is impressive enough, thank you.
Even more impressive is the information [B]Parkaboy[/B] and [B]Spike[/B] have provided explaining how it can be done--how it is done all the time in certain arenas for the purpose of superimposing the presence of a Divine Spirit onto simple biology. Perhaps that's one of the reason I physically fear being in a Church (I was raised as a strict Southern Baptist--so you know, the fear is well grounded). What is even scarier is how it can be used. Remember Orwell's [I]1984[/I] and the daily denouncing of the current traitor; masses of people screaming their rage at an image on a screen? It was a means of mob release of fury at a government chosen target, it kept the citizens calmer in their dreay lives. Less likely to rebel.
I've read Guts several times now, looking for the suggestions and hypnotic cadences. Each time the place I find myself holding my breath is when he says he would stay down for 3 or 4 minutes at a time; I find myself thinking no one can hold his breath that long without passing out--and in a few seconds I realize that the thought itself stopped my breathing. It's dropping that completely fictional idea into what is reading like fact that keeps breaking into my attention to the story. Each time I think about it, a second later, I find myself doing it. It may be my way of distracting my attention from the gory details of the story itself. A defense mechanism? The way babies will hold their breath and pass out to get away from a threatening situation?
I cannot bring myself to listen to the audio posted here. Not without someone else in the room--and what if we both faint? I'm feeling lightheaded just thinking about listening to it. Well, done Sir Palahnuik, well done. Could you do something next along the lines of "rich people suddenly decide to give masses of their money to the hungry and homeless?" Because, that would be even cooler than fainting.
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
This poses a whole new series of ideas...if someone could write a story that would make me have an orgasm, I'd never leave the fuckin house.
Yes.. I'm a sad...sad little man.
No, you are a genius. This, my friends, is the new goal.
As a psych major, I will spend the next 4 years figuring this out.
Three cheers for violence.
Um, guys, both of whom I consider my friends, I believe the word you are looking for is [I]Erotica[/I]. No need to leave the house. Google it . You won't be sorry. 
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
[QUOTE=Luddy Dunn]Um, guys, both of whom I consider my friends, I believe the word you are looking for is [I]Erotica[/I]. No need to leave the house. Google it . You won't be sorry. ;)[/QUOTE]
yeah... I just let that one slide... I could've run with it, but it'd have been too easy.
Luds, you're postcount deceives us. You have no n00b tendencies whatsoever, as far as I can tell.
[size=1][I](P.S. dzudzu is reading somehting of yours, and she likes it. I'm next in line to check it out.)[/I][/size]
| adj | facebook | an american atheist| warmed and bound |
[QUOTE=ireLocus][I](P.S. dzudzu is reading somehting of yours, and she likes it. I'm next in line to check it out.)[/I][/size][/QUOTE]
Thank you....and now I have another reason to lie awake at night and worry. Just know the next one, the one I'm working on now is going to be better. Promise. I Am Jill's Hopeless Neurotic Anxiety Attacks...in other words, yeah, I'm a writer. And that's [I]why[/I] I keep passing out.
The post count is proportionately related to how much I am not working on the new novel. Tomorrow I'm going to spend posting all the reviews of the stuff I've read in the workshop. Some of this writing is so damn impressive, it makes me want to just quit. The hightest compliment one writer can pay another upon completing a read is the immediate "that's it; I quit."
I love the alphanumeric: [I]n00b[/I]. So much said in so few symbols.
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
* shameless advertisement *
visit the new [B]Think Tank [/B] thread... I'm sure your ideas will be appreciated there.
| adj | facebook | an american atheist| warmed and bound |
[QUOTE=ireLocus]Luds, you're postcount deceives us. You have no n00b tendencies whatsoever, as far as I [/QUOTE]
Still hung up on your own post count status? For real, the day I start judging someone by their internet postcount is the day I decide sexism is allright, racism has a scientificly valid viewpoint, and changing my avatar every week keeps me interesting to other people.
Three cheers for violence.
[QUOTE=Mad Daego]Still hung up on your own post count status? For real, the day I start judging someone by their internet postcount is the day I decide sexism is allright, racism has a scientificly valid viewpoint, and changing my avatar every week keeps me interesting to other people.[/QUOTE]
...yawn...
| adj | facebook | an american atheist| warmed and bound |
Mad Daego, [url=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=17956] see also...[/url]
| adj | facebook | an american atheist| warmed and bound |
[QUOTE=ireLocus]Mad Daego, [url=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=17956] see also...[/url][/QUOTE]
Not sure I want to live on a planet where we can poll the significance of other humans and render it as a bar chart. I believe each of us is the genius of our own existence. It is tiresome to see these minds and voices I respect engage in petty pissing contests. But then I have had a couple glasses of wine, enough to be in that "I love you guys" stage of tippsiness. Next round is on me, just let's not fight. Life really is too freaking short. And I want to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.
Let's all listen to Guts and just pass out.... :cool:
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
[QUOTE=Luddy Dunn]Not sure I want to live on a planet where we can poll the significance of other humans and render it as a bar chart. I believe each of us is the genius of our own existence. It is tiresome to see these minds and voices I respect engage in petty pissing contests. But then I have had a couple glasses of wine, enough to be in that "I love you guys" stage of tippsiness. Next round is on me, just let's not fight. Life really is too freaking short. And I want to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.
Let's all listen to Guts and just pass out.... :cool:[/QUOTE]
Ire started that thread to show just how ridiculous it is to care what people think about you on the internet. (well, the people who take the time to flame you at least) He was saying "here, vent at me, if you really must, in this thread and allow the gownups to talk uninterrupted with your petty insults and meaningless gripes."
It was actually a joke, and most people ended up using the thread to say "we love you, man."
[QUOTE=dzudzu]Ire started that thread to show just how ridiculous it is to care what people think about you on the internet. (well, the people who take the time to flame you at least) He was saying "here, vent at me, if you really must, in this thread and allow the gownups to talk uninterrupted with your petty insults and meaningless gripes."
It was actually a joke, and most people ended up using the thread to say "we love you, man."[/QUOTE]
Ah, then, point well taken. I knew there was a reason I liked that Ire guy. Thanks for the explanation.
[COLOR=SandyBrown][SIZE=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=RoyalBlue]loster[/COLOR]. - Saul Bellow[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[Color=SandyBrown][Size=2]Perhaps, being lost, one should get [COLOR=Red]lobster[/COLOR]. - Dean Young[/size][/color]
[QUOTE=JPledger]This poses a whole new series of ideas...if someone could write a story that would make me have an orgasm, I'd never leave the fuckin house.
Yes.. I'm a sad...sad little man.[/QUOTE]
I'd say that no, you're just "man" and therefore by definition must think about sex all the damned time....
alas, that statement doesnt quite work because id really like to read a story like that as well... over and over and over and.... well, you get the picture
[QUOTE=Luddy Dunn]Um, guys, both of whom I consider my friends, I believe the word you are looking for is [I]Erotica[/I]. No need to leave the house. Google it . You won't be sorry. ;)[/QUOTE]
youve found erotica that works just from reading it? link please
[QUOTE=bethklein5]:O youve found erotica that works just from reading it? link please :D[/QUOTE]
memeber search brock landers he always gave me a chuibby from readding him
i tried to tell him he could make a fortune as the 'jackie chan' of the romance novel world but writing all those erotica novels and then posing fabio style on the cover for them too but he wouldnt listen ! damn fool
did he read [I]Choke[/I] or [I]Guts[/I]?
EDIT: read what you posted in the other thread.
What?