"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

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xec8
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Another long title; this one's relevant.

How have your political views changed in the last few years? Or have they stayed exactly the same?

I've become more enamored than ever with the idea of radical democracy: pluralistic agonism, to be precise — that is, a space where real antagonism can be acknowledged and worked through/with/towards. This is miles away from the current democratic situation today in the States and the UK, where there's a sense of what is truly "political" being dull, dangerous or ideologically archaic. "If it's political, I don't want to talk about it," as I heard someone say in the Humanities department where I did my BA.

What are your thoughts on this? Has it all become a watered down popularity contest? Is that a good thing? Should democracy be about compromising on every point so that the maximum number of people can say they're happy, or should it rather be an attempt to build a new social space where people are actually COMMITTED to their politics?

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Irina Marina
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Entirely liberal, and more and more disgusted with the political scene in my country where the governing coalition is social, democrat and liberal, which is obviously wrong. I had a period when I thought communism was a good idea, and maybe it was just implemented in a bad way, then I decided those who didn't want to make an effort do not deserve being offered the same opportunities as those who do.

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Liberum69
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How many elections can we name where people voted for the uglier guy? None in the 2000s, that's for sure.

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monkeywright
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Nixon was the last ugly president.

Also, I think as much as I dislike our 2 party stalemate in the states, I look at all of this ruling coalition, multiple party bureaucratic mess in some of the EU countries, and feel a little better about our more efficient clusterfuck.

_kit
DILLIGAF
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monkeywright wrote:
Nixon was the last ugly president.

I think you're forgetting a little man named George W Bush.

monkeywright
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I'd accept people saying they found him unattractive, but he's not Nixon-ugly.

_kit
DILLIGAF
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He was definitely the uglier of the two candidates both times he was voted in

Skygrotto
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As far as the maximum number of people saying they are happy, that's a very utilitarian perspective. The goal of government and nation isn't to make happy. It's to establish a social order in which citizens are able to work so they have the means to house, feed, and clothe themselves and their families where they have families. It's to protect these people from foreign and domestic threats and attacks without undermining civil liberties. It's to keep specialized organizations (everything from corporations to greenpeace and its kin to religions to MADD and its kin) from ever having too much power or too much sway over legislation and the way people live. Governments are there to provide healthcare to all their citizens so that they may have the strength necessary to work. And protect citizens from employers who would abuse them (unions ought not to be needed).

Skygrotto
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Oh wait. We're judging all this based on looks. I like the white hammer and sickle on the red backdrop the most. Isn't that Russian? Love everything Russian.

Liberum69
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I gotta disagree. Both times, George W. was superior in looks. Al Gore was younger, but creepier. He didn't have the calming look Bush did. Kerry... eh, Kerry was already voted as less attractive in a mag I remember from those times.

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BPL
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Lately I've been finding totalitarianism more and more attractive. Democracy and representative democracy involves having faith in the general public, and lets face the majority of people are idiots. I fine with leaving control to an intelligent bunch of people or person.

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nathaniel parker
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"If you're a republican when you're 20 then you have no heart.
If you're a democrat when you're 40 then you have no brain."

While i think both parties are ludicrous, I agree with the notion behind it.

Tuffy
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BPL wrote:
Lately I've been finding totalitarianism more and more attractive. Democracy and representative democracy involves having faith in the general public, and lets face the majority of people are idiots. I fine with leaving control to an intelligent bunch of people or person.

It always looks good until you find out that you're one of the idiots and you're being reassigned to a fertilizer factory in Kamchatka or Oklahoma.

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Skygrotto
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If you check out Nova's website, there's a video on there that has a guy circa 1900 who tried to prove that the vast majority cannot make right decisions. His experiment proved that when many people of average intelligence vote on something they make accurate choices. He had them vote on the weight of a cow or ox. No one person was right but the collective average was spot on. More people need to vote. And the parties in question, 2 party scenario of the States and 5 party scenario of Canada, need to offer real differences and real diversity, but they are, in all honesty, many sides of the same coin, rather than each being their own coin. That coin is corporatism masked as democracy. In fact, the way things are progressing in the States, they are closer to a Technocracy or Theocracy...

Tuffy
by Sandoz
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I use "oligarchy".

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Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
nathaniel parker
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I like to say "Two balls in the same scrotum."

jane s.
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When I was growing up, everyone I knew was a Republican, and everyone was a Christian. Then I got out in the world and found that everywhere else, these characteristics led other people to believe I was ignorant or heartless. I don't feel ignorant or heartless. I just feel confused.

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BPL
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Tuffy wrote:
BPL wrote:
Lately I've been finding totalitarianism more and more attractive. Democracy and representative democracy involves having faith in the general public, and lets face the majority of people are idiots. I fine with leaving control to an intelligent bunch of people or person.

It always looks good until you find out that you're one of the idiots and you're being reassigned to a fertilizer factory in Kamchatka or Oklahoma.

I live in Canada, so the worst they can send me is either Alberta or Saskatchewan. For Alberta, you'll be surprised the fun you can have with some rednecks, a case of beer, a pickup truck, and a bunch of barren roads with no traffic. For Saskatchewan, well, there's cows, you can tip them, I guess.

Skygrotto wrote:
If you check out Nova's website, there's a video on there that has a guy circa 1900 who tried to prove that the vast majority cannot make right decisions. His experiment proved that when many people of average intelligence vote on something they make accurate choices. He had them vote on the weight of a cow or ox. No one person was right but the collective average was spot on. More people need to vote. And the parties in question, 2 party scenario of the States and 5 party scenario of Canada, need to offer real differences and real diversity, but they are, in all honesty, many sides of the same coin, rather than each being their own coin. That coin is corporatism masked as democracy. In fact, the way things are progressing in the States, they are closer to a Technocracy or Theocracy...

When did We decide just to stick to the big five, I was supporting the marijuana party.

__________________________

"The rat inside your brain rules the world."

Citizen Kane SUCKED!!!!!!! True fact.

Alcoholism is the cure not the disease.

xec8
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Skygrotto wrote:
As far as the maximum number of people saying they are happy, that's a very utilitarian perspective.

I don't mean "happy" in the sense you're talking about. I mean it casually, as in, "enough people are satisfied with the way things are run..."
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thanks for sharing.blackhawk tactical pants.
— Spambot

"I could have done worse!" exultantly cried the murderer Lebret, sentenced at Rouen to hard labor for life. — Félix Fénéon

Skygrotto
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BPL wrote:
Tuffy wrote:
BPL wrote:
Lately I've been finding totalitarianism more and more attractive. Democracy and representative democracy involves having faith in the general public, and lets face the majority of people are idiots. I fine with leaving control to an intelligent bunch of people or person.

It always looks good until you find out that you're one of the idiots and you're being reassigned to a fertilizer factory in Kamchatka or Oklahoma.

I live in Canada, so the worst they can send me is either Alberta or Saskatchewan. For Alberta, you'll be surprised the fun you can have with some rednecks, a case of beer, a pickup truck, and a bunch of barren roads with no traffic. For Saskatchewan, well, there's cows, you can tip them, I guess.

Skygrotto wrote:
If you check out Nova's website, there's a video on there that has a guy circa 1900 who tried to prove that the vast majority cannot make right decisions. His experiment proved that when many people of average intelligence vote on something they make accurate choices. He had them vote on the weight of a cow or ox. No one person was right but the collective average was spot on. More people need to vote. And the parties in question, 2 party scenario of the States and 5 party scenario of Canada, need to offer real differences and real diversity, but they are, in all honesty, many sides of the same coin, rather than each being their own coin. That coin is corporatism masked as democracy. In fact, the way things are progressing in the States, they are closer to a Technocracy or Theocracy...

When did We decide just to stick to the big five, I was supporting the marijuana party.

When we voted in the last X number of elections we decided on the big 5 and we've stuck with them for decades now. Do you vote? Everyone supports the pot party who's under the age of 50 and not a straight-edge razor.

Alberta? Where McDonald's workers are paid 20k a year, there are no provincial taxes, but on the flip side, there are a lot of tar sands and Greepeacers protesting the tar sands' existence. And does Edmonton sill boast the world's largest shopping mall? I guess I could ask my uncle, he lives there... Saskatchewan is a province you drive right through. Do not stop, not even to tip cows. If Manitoba and Saskatchewan weren't in the centre of our nation, I think we'd let them separate if that's what they wanted. Quebec though, grrrrr, and I have extended family members who favor separatism. Political discussions at family events usually lead to the cussing out of les Quebecois. One time, after a little speech I gave, the family was endorsing me for prime minister, ahahaha. I can give speeches and talk a mean pile of bullshit.

BPL
Drank the Kool-Aid
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Skygrotto wrote:
BPL wrote:
Tuffy wrote:
BPL wrote:
Lately I've been finding totalitarianism more and more attractive. Democracy and representative democracy involves having faith in the general public, and lets face the majority of people are idiots. I fine with leaving control to an intelligent bunch of people or person.

It always looks good until you find out that you're one of the idiots and you're being reassigned to a fertilizer factory in Kamchatka or Oklahoma.

I live in Canada, so the worst they can send me is either Alberta or Saskatchewan. For Alberta, you'll be surprised the fun you can have with some rednecks, a case of beer, a pickup truck, and a bunch of barren roads with no traffic. For Saskatchewan, well, there's cows, you can tip them, I guess.

Skygrotto wrote:
If you check out Nova's website, there's a video on there that has a guy circa 1900 who tried to prove that the vast majority cannot make right decisions. His experiment proved that when many people of average intelligence vote on something they make accurate choices. He had them vote on the weight of a cow or ox. No one person was right but the collective average was spot on. More people need to vote. And the parties in question, 2 party scenario of the States and 5 party scenario of Canada, need to offer real differences and real diversity, but they are, in all honesty, many sides of the same coin, rather than each being their own coin. That coin is corporatism masked as democracy. In fact, the way things are progressing in the States, they are closer to a Technocracy or Theocracy...

When did We decide just to stick to the big five, I was supporting the marijuana party.

When we voted in the last X number of elections we decided on the big 5 and we've stuck with them for decades now. Do you vote? Everyone supports the pot party who's under the age of 50 and not a straight-edge razor.

Alberta? Where McDonald's workers are paid 20k a year, there are no provincial taxes, but on the flip side, there are a lot of tar sands and Greepeacers protesting the tar sands' existence. And does Edmonton sill boast the world's largest shopping mall? I guess I could ask my uncle, he lives there... Saskatchewan is a province you drive right through. Do not stop, not even to tip cows. If Manitoba and Saskatchewan weren't in the centre of our nation, I think we'd let them separate if that's what they wanted. Quebec though, grrrrr, and I have extended family members who favor separatism. Political discussions at family events usually lead to the cussing out of les Quebecois. One time, after a little speech I gave, the family was endorsing me for prime minister, ahahaha. I can give speeches and talk a mean pile of bullshit.

I'm 18, and I do vote, but I go for either the marijuana, libertarianism, or communist party. My philosophy is when choosing between two evils, chose the one you haven't experienced. I'm not interested in the devil you know. I however support the tar sands, is you actually do any research on the matter you discover that it's 'carbon footprint' is lower than most other oil production, and most of the criticism is just a smear campaign. Greenpeace can just go fuck a tree for all I care. The west Edmonton mall is now third largest. after the mall of america, and some mall in south east asia. Yes it's true, Saskatchewan is so flat even the cows are bored, if you fall asleep while driving in Saskatchewan you'll wake up where you ran out of gas. Manitoba is better, mainly for it's history, but both Manitoba and Saskatchewan have a lot of natural resources to just let them go. For the frenchies, while I think that separation is now just a lot of BS, since none are really willing to deal with all the consequences of separation, such as military, tax's, trade, etc., etc. If I was a politician I would create the Quebec shut up act, where Quebec will be unable to bring up separation ever again.

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"The rat inside your brain rules the world."

Citizen Kane SUCKED!!!!!!! True fact.

Alcoholism is the cure not the disease.

Lidia
Joined: 10/12/2010
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I always trusted in democracy,but in my country it is impossible