UK to ban anti-depressants for kids

The only antidepressants I remeber having in the UK as a child was the fact that there was only four fucking TV channels!!!!

i say good for the uk. america has become over-drugged, and under parented.
down with behavior modification drugs and up with parental responsibility.

give that boy some ritalin
that ought to calm him down ma'am

They should ban all of them for kids including Prozac. Especially Prozac.

I am with Trypd. Your kid hates his classmates? Give him so prozac. Got picked on by a bully? Prozac. It is like ADD - that was the designer mental illness when I was younger. Kids who just didn't feel like learning were treated like special cases because of their "ADD" - it is crap. Healthy people don't come in pills. You have to take some responsibility.

people shun responsibility, dole it out in pill form and drift off into a catatonic state

i dont think its people shunning responsibilty, i think its more people are terrorized by all this hype and terms they dont understand that doctors and pill commercials force down their throats. its all a matter of money, really. te drug companies obviously want people on as many of their pills as possible, so its just trying to get you to buy into as much as you can

good point klop. really, the odds are stacked against many kids these days. they're practically force fed pills to make them act "normal", and i'm sure that really screws with their mind, what with their parents pusing drugs on them while at the same time saying "no don't do drugs".
interesting fact, i didn't take a single pill until i was 15 years old, i had this problem with swallowing them, so i used to just do the under-the-tongue-hide if my parents watched. for that i have a strong immune system and a tendancy to shy away from any pills.

what i meant was that doctors shun responsibility in treating their patients, including older patients like me.

i dont tihnk its denying responsibility
i think its honest fear, that they really think folks need to be on all these drugs to be happy
they all went to med school right? you tihnk they tell them "walk it off" or tell em to have a 6pill cocktail everyday?

i'd rather have a martini. at least i can control costs.

who would have known i'd say this on a chuck forum...

there are people who need these drugs. antidepressants just get a really bad reputation because people are stupid. this is the dark ages in brain chemistry. too many people are judging poorly. this is the equivalent of people in the 80's passing AIDS off as a "faggot problem". depression is not an excuse, antidepressants are not replacements. if the US banned these drugs, it would be straight up unconstitutional.

(it's amusing to me because my personal experience with prozac was much worse than with efexor. and that's just extra in my reasoning for banning these drugs. if prozac will only help 1 out of 10, efexor will help another.)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by atheisticcharlie [/i]
[B]who would have known i'd say this on a chuck forum...

there are people who need these drugs. antidepressants just get a really bad reputation because people are stupid. this is the dark ages in brain chemistry. too many people are judging poorly. this is the equivalent of people in the 80's passing AIDS off as a "faggot problem". depression is not an excuse, antidepressants are not replacements. if the US banned these drugs, it would be straight up unconstitutional.

(it's amusing to me because my personal experience with prozac was much worse than with efexor. and that's just extra in my reasoning for banning these drugs. if prozac will only help 1 out of 10, efexor will help another.) [/B][/QUOTE]
you're right, i'm sure there are some people who do benefit from them. my ex's brother was bipolar, and needed medication or else we was a bit flippish. but as a generalization, they're used way too much. i think perhaps medication for mental imbalances should be controlled governmentally. i know all you are thinking "wait, let trypd said that?" but think about it, a lot of doctors are just pill pushers because they recieve kickbacks from med companies, or feel obligated to push a certain type over another. if it was governmentally controlled, might save the public a lot pill pushing and a hell of a lot of commercial time.

What a knee-jerk reaction! I know people who work with kids with mental illness--serious stuff--and sometimes those meds make the difference in whether a kid can live at home, go to school, or enjoy their lives. If some kids on meds think of suicide, how many more kids who are NOT on meds think of suicide? It's all about getting the best type of treatment for each kid (or each person, for that matter), and an all-out ban on one of the treatments isn't going to help.

do you really think the suicide rates will climb because anti-depressants are being controlled more rigorously in great britain, or what?

btw, i've been getting my mood stabilizer from my doctor for FREE! how the heck is he making any $$$?

handjobs

i had a handjob the other day that was magnificent

thanks

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Six On The Dot [/i]
[B]I have never disagreed with anything more. I give it a year till this changes as the suicide population climbs like hell. [/B][/QUOTE]

So what. If people need a pill to make them want to live then maybe they're better off dead. Anti-d's were invented to keep the people down, and to keep the drug companies rich.

Are you anti-anti depressant guys forgetting that Chuck himself took--maybe even STILL takes--Zoloft?

I guess it always boils down to the same thing: People thinking they have a right to be in everyone elses business. Homophobes and anti-choicers (pro-lifers) think the same thing and their opinions don't waver either. They also think some people are "better off dead."

i never said they were better off dead.
actually, i am against the pill pushing doctors do, and i think that banning most anti-depresents is a good way to keep those who don't need it, off of it. notice they didn't all anti-depressants, nor did they ban them for adults. so the problem is with the pill pushing doctors and parents who don't want to attempt to work with their kids. we wouldn't want to actually work with our kids would we? no not when we can drug them up to appear as normal, set aside the fact that it can lead to drug dependancy, and chemical imbalances in them when they get older.

Definitely people have the right to decide for their own kids but often it IS a chemical imbalance which is making them depressed to begin with. I just dont think people should adamantly refuse drugs for their kids without knowing what the exact problem is. And also, I generally distrust doctors more than anyone I know. I'm pretty much just speaking from my own experiences with anti-depressants, which have--so far anyway--changed my life for the better.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gnat [/i]
[B]Are you anti-anti depressant guys forgetting that Chuck himself took--maybe even STILL takes--Zoloft? [/B][/QUOTE]

Art stands alone Bozo. I am not a groupie, i like the guys work, but I don't think that he's a friggin God. Alot of admirable people do stupid things, like allow doctors to shove pills down they're throats to dull the pain of being human. OWN YOUR MOOD SWINGS BABY!!!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gnat [/i]
[B]Definitely people have the right to decide for their own kids but often it IS a chemical imbalance which is making them depressed to begin with. I just dont think people should adamantly refuse drugs for their kids without knowing what the exact problem is. And also, I generally distrust doctors more than anyone I know. I'm pretty much just speaking from my own experiences with anti-depressants, which have--so far anyway--changed my life for the better. [/B][/QUOTE]
well if it is an imbalance, then they can still get prozac. i DO think people should adamantly refuse drugs for thier kids without knowing what the exact problem is. that's the whole freakin' problem there. oh, we're not sure what it is, so i'm going to perscribe you an anti-depressant that i get kickbacks for endorsing, some antibiotic pills that i'll perscribe so that whatever you might have, or might not have can built up a resistance to the drug, and a couple other drug that have no place in your body, because i just don't have a clue what is wrong with you.
and i'm glad your anti-depressant use has worked for you, but for a large part of people on anti-depressants, it's pointless and useless being on them, as morey said, they're taking it to dull the pain of being human.

really like that avatar, hypnotic, i forgot what this threads about

Trypdwyre, I meant BEFORE you know what the problem is. If you're kid seems to be in the blackest depression or maybe manic (whatever) and you have no idea why but recognize that maybe it's time to take her/him to see your hopefully trusted family doctor, would you just walk in and say "I don't care what's wrong, but I'm telling you right now don't bother to prescribe ANYTHING"? True, some depressions are temporary and I totally agree that drugs should not be a first resort. However, if it's gone on for long enough that you get worried about, then don't you think you should maybe start exploring your options? The thing is that most people that haven't suffered from chronic depressions have no clue what it's like. Most people think you just get over it but it's not that way.
And anyway, I seriously don't think most people take them just to dull the pain of being human. It's not just an oh my girlfriend dumped me and I'm bummed kind of depression. And even if dulling emotional pain was the reason some people take them, I guess maybe it's time the government started thinking about banning alcohol since that is the exact reason so many people drink so much.
Ok, sorry for the rambling. I'm done now.

you're right, BEFORE i knew what the problem was, no, i would not take my kid to the doctor and just get him/her drugged up without knowing what is wrong.
drugs are supposed to be used to make the problem better, not to just pop whenever you THINK you might have a problem.

um...so...wait. threat of suicide means they...[i]ban[/i] the AD's? so...wha???

oh, right. these are the people who eat "spotted dick." sorry, i forgot.

Yeh, surprise surprise, but a lot of anti-depressants are apparently [i]causing[/i] suicides.

I was gonna give you shit for not reading the article, but apparently now you have to be subscribed or something to see the full thing.. How gay.

since the first link mysteriously turned into a must-subscribe link, here are 2 helpful other links about the study and the news information.
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/12/10/drugs.children.reut/index.html]Reuters supplied CNN with this news piece[/url]
[url=http://www.mhra.gov.uk/]The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency - The Agency that put out the statement about anti-depressants leading to youth suicide. It's the 4th or so news piece down on their page, with links to several documents they put out on the topic.[/url]

what does this say about the entirety of our heath care system?

does anybody realize that the treatment of thementally ill hasn't really changed all that much since the days of dorothea dix? anyone know who dorothea dix was? anyone? anyone?

i know who dorothea dix was, and i think that's a gross exaggeration, fram.

treatment of the mentally ill *HAS* changed significantly, even since the 1960's and 70's, when it first became an issue of public concern and not of religious mass hysteria. i'm still glad i didn't live in those days, because the drugs they gave people were horribly crude and laden with side effects. they thought giving people unlimited and crude electroshock therapy was a great idea. oh, and lobotomies.

nowadays drugs and other treatments for mental illnesses are not perfect, and psychiatry is not an exact science by any means, but as a "mental health consumer" i'd rather live now than in any other time in the past.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B]i know who dorothea dix was, and i think that's a gross exaggeration, fram. [/B][/QUOTE]

certainly, treatment has changed significantly, but not to the level the mental healthc care system needs to reach in order to be an effective, compassionate and progressive means to an end. i speak from experience. i know how people with these disorders are treated. i've seen it with my own eyes. i also know firsthand how my brother was treated by the system. it's an awful, barbaric, nightmarish system and frankly dorothea dix' work is far from done.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]shocking?
fram himself is a gross exaggeration. so like, everything he says... [/B][/QUOTE]

it's creepy how well you know me . . .

apparently i'm good at that.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by framstedt [/i]
[B]certainly, treatment has changed significantly, but not to the level the mental healthc care system needs to reach in order to be an effective, compassionate and progressive means to an end. i speak from experience. i know how people with these disorders are treated. i've seen it with my own eyes. i also know firsthand how my brother was treated by the system. it's an awful, barbaric, nightmarish system and frankly dorothea dix' work is far from done. [/B][/QUOTE]
i have to agree with the man in a off-handish sort of way.
true psychiatric treatment has changed in the past x amount of years, but health care is constantly changing. just look back at the past few years and all the reports on eggs alone.
and it is true that psychiatric treatment has improved, and does help people, but i don't think it should be considered to be improved [i]well-enough[/i] to be put into place and into effect as "health care" as vast and wide-spread as it has been. i liken this to be akin to releasing a drug before you've done test studies and seen if it effective and not harmful.
bluntly, psychiatric/psychological treatment (edited) GENERALY (/edited) isn't something to mess around with.

wait, fram, so your [i]brother[/i] was in the mental health system, so you know more about that system than someone who's been in it themselves?

personally i think people blame the psychiatric "system" for "dehumanizing" them with treatment because they want to lash out at someone for the pain of the recovery experience, or because they expect people to be miracle workers, or because they just plain don't want to take responsibility for their own behavior. yes, there are abuses, as in any system. but people saying "drugs are evil, drugs will make you a mindless zombie that registers as a Republican" are in some serious denial.

people trying to treat and help the mentally ill are not the enemy. the enemy of the mentally ill is ourselves.

[url=http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=4254949]it's spreading[/url]
The US is now following suit and is having a hearing on antidepressant usage risks in kids.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]you're right, i'm sure there are some people who do benefit from them. my ex's brother was bipolar, and needed medication or else we was a bit flippish. but as a generalization, they're used way too much. i think perhaps medication for mental imbalances should be controlled governmentally. i know all you are thinking "wait, let trypd said that?" but think about it, a lot of doctors are just pill pushers because they recieve kickbacks from med companies, or feel obligated to push a certain type over another. if it was governmentally controlled, might save the public a lot pill pushing and a hell of a lot of commercial time. [/B][/QUOTE]

You are so wrong. Take the Veterans Affairs Administration and its hospitals. They are federally regulated. They push pills.

You kow why? Because they are cheaper than other forms of threatments even the ones that help to finally end a dependant phase.

They give pills and don't want you to get hospitalized, don't want the costs. If you get hospitalized, they up the dosage, and if that doesn't work it is ECT time. For no fucking reason and no consent.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]I DO think people should adamantly refuse drugs for thier kids without knowing what the exact problem is. [/B][/QUOTE]

The problem is mental health most of the time doesn't know the exact problem. They have to prescribe stuff to see how it goes, if the guess was right. Not for kids, not for adults.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Xk3zofrenik [/i]
[B]You are so wrong. Take the Veterans Affairs Administration and its hospitals. They are federally regulated. They push pills.

You kow why? Because they are cheaper than other forms of threatments even the ones that help to finally end a dependant phase.

They give pills and don't want you to get hospitalized, don't want the costs. If you get hospitalized, they up the dosage, and if that doesn't work it is ECT time. For no fucking reason and no consent. [/B][/QUOTE]
good point. i guess it doesn't really matter who regulates them, pills will always get pushed as an easier and more profitable alternative to proper treatment.
i guess the best option is just to educate yourself on your problem before you go to the doctor. it's a good idea to do this anyway, but definately look into the drugs your doctor wants to prescribe you before you fill them and take them. your local library should have a copy of the most current PDR as a refence copy, and even if you have trouble understanding that, there are other books that provide a less technical approach to drug risks and benefits. despite all the american government has tried to do for health care, self education is still your best choice.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Xk3zofrenik [/i]
[B]The problem is mental health most of the time doesn't know the exact problem. They have to prescribe stuff to see how it goes, if the guess was right. Not for kids, not for adults. [/B][/QUOTE]
yea, treating the symptoms and not the disease type scenario. we have that "treatment" to thank for the rapid drug-resistant viruses.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]and it is true that psychiatric treatment has improved, and does help people, but i don't think it should be considered to be improved [i]well-enough[/i] to be put into place and into effect as "health care" as vast and wide-spread as it has been. i liken this to be akin to releasing a drug before you've done test studies and seen if it effective and not harmful.
bluntly, psychiatric/psychological treatment (edited) GENERALY (/edited) isn't something to mess around with. [/B][/QUOTE]

The problem is the other options for severe cases are just as well dependant on many factors just a psychiatrist guess is. Many other areas of Health Care have the same problem, AIDS for example. It is not only the disease,[the inbalance itself or whatever] is how you deal with it, and dealing with it on severe cases takes professional help, which costs $$$. So we go back to being a dollars and cents issue.

Do you know where most drugs get tested?
VA veterans. I personally saw when Effexor was first given as a test. Another reason why the goverment should so not be the option to this.

People don't want to mess around with pills or treatment. Often most of us that do, don't have much options, mostly because of $$$. It is not a fail-safe treatment or health care but it is all there is and mental health is declining year after year for a number of factors. Pushing people is a problem, but not the cause of lack of mental health in any part of the world.