Tribal

thats what children are for.

most people do involve themselves in a tribe, they just end up calling them communities, neighborhoods. you might just be the silent, to himself, tribe member. talk around, get to know your neighbors, or people in the same activities as yourself.

No guys, I guess I wasn't very clear.. but to be more specific I truly want a TRIBE in the most classical sense. Granted, to be in a tribe does not mean that I must go live in the "wild" and live off the land (though I certainly hope to do so one day)--the best definition I can give is what I've given: A group of people, large or small, that literally lives for one another and you (as an individual) live for the tribe. All of your actions are essentially done to benifit the tribe, and structurally speaking, even the most selfish of acts such as struggling to keep yourself and immediate family alive, directly benifit what you would call your tribe.

Neighborhoods are all fine and dandy, but just what kind of fucking community are you living in? Trust me, I came from a very small one myself, and there was hardly a fucking lick of what one could call community cohesivness. Many humans on this planet hardly know what its like to be in a true community--whether it be the natural community or a social one (though that is sortof an oxymoron, everyone and i mean EVERYONE and EVERYTHING are ultimately subject to the natural community).

Im flat out saying that tribalism generally does not exist in the united states any longer, and has not really existed in Europe for centuries.

[QUOTE=RunAmok]No guys, I guess I wasn't very clear.. but to be more specific I truly want a TRIBE in the most classical sense. Granted, to be in a tribe does not mean that I must go live in the "wild" and live off the land (though I certainly hope to do so one day)--the best definition I can give is what I've given: A group of people, large or small, that literally lives for one another and you (as an individual) live for the tribe. All of your actions are essentially done to benifit the tribe, and structurally speaking, even the most selfish of acts such as struggling to keep yourself and immediate family alive, directly benifit what you would call your tribe.

Neighborhoods are all fine and dandy, but just what kind of fucking community are you living in? Trust me, I came from a very small one myself, and there was hardly a fucking lick of what one could call community cohesivness. Many humans on this planet hardly know what its like to be in a true community--whether it be the natural community or a social one (though that is sortof an oxymoron, everyone and i mean EVERYONE and EVERYTHING are ultimately subject to the natural community).

Im flat out saying that tribalism generally does not exist in the united states any longer, and has not really existed in Europe for centuries.[/QUOTE]
tribalism became outdated as tribes combined and their numbers grew. to get a true tribe, you would have to live in an area with a small group of people, and struggle to ensure that everone is provided for, all the while keeping your distance from other populations. fact is america and europe have consolidated and populated enough to the point where tribes are no longer useful nor are they practical.

good luck with that though.

look what happened to the indians. (American)
A tribe would be niftay. would there be a chief? a shaman? i'll join a tribe with you if'n the laws be good. would it be like a mini-society? would there be taxes? would we have to pay taxes to the government? what are the punishments and stuff like that? tribe is a good idea. remember Lord of the Flies?

INSTRUCTIONS FOR STARTING A CULT...ER ...TRIBE

1)TARGET HOSTS

Proper identification of the target hosts conserves resources, and so should be done carefully. Individuals who have recently undergone 'crisis events' are particularly susceptible to most any message; this group are the most likely to undergo a religious conversion or complete change of life behavior. The uneducated, inexperienced, or unsophisticated lack the more advanced cognitive mechanisms for manipulation of language and for 'filtering' it, acting like an immune system. Individuals who need to fill a void, such as college students away from home, commonly for the first time, are ripe targets for more than an education, as numerous tribes/cults have found.

2) CRAFTING THE MEME

A robust meme needs good, thoughtful design, like a well laid out house or city. Many memes suffer from 'organic growth' problems, where they are undirected, unmanaged, and soon die under their own weight. Creation of a meme requires that the engineer frame the correct intent for best performance value; just as with a military mission, if you can't state the objective, you aren't likely to succeed. It is important to identify the right 'buttons to push,' the releasers or triggers for behavior that are desired; note that a target subject can act or react based upon a meme, and a clearly directed outlet should be built in. Unlike with a biological automata, the meme should not unnecessarily impair the host and their ability to function; making certain that the meme and host fits into the system is critical to the spread and overall influence of the meme.

3) STARTING THE FIRE

The engineer or sponsoring group will need to have access to the necessary vector channel for distribution. Research will also likely provide leverage points, where the effort invested gives back considerable return. It will be important to maintain a sense of realism, however, and focus efforts based on the needs of the intended goal; is it necessary to have a significant number of people over a short period of time, or a few, dedicated people over a longer period of time?

THERE YOU GO, JIM JONES JR.

NOW ALL YOU NEED IS A VAT OF KOOLAID!

kool aid kicks ass...

Stop reading Desmond Morris.

Hey lofivinyl, you have a great little instruction manual there.. assuming I am trying to start a cult. However, that is hardly an assumption you are in too much of a position to make. Did I in any place start spouting some message on this forum, trying to indict members into some loop-about themed cult playground? No, don't think so, unless I missed something.

Here's my perspective--our culture (meaning modern culture in general, its everywhere, often so pervasive in our lives that it has become ambient) is rapidly overpopulating itself, and, being a destructive way of life to begin with, by multiplying as we do (through means of "totalitarianistic agriculture" as it has been phrased) we are simply serving to expand upon the problem.

I really don't want to get into the logistics of why I so severely disagree with this culture, so all I'm gonna get at for now is that it is plainly self-destructive and I don't care to be a part of it. Now, my thought is this--I can find some like minded people (as far as i'm concerned, anyone who has half a mind to and abit of guff would be willing) and walk away from the fence, you might say. Kindof like living ultimately out of the box. Im not saying I want to completely abandon some of the wonderful ideas humanity has produced, i'm merely saying that I don't care to be a part of the culture that spawned them. I would like to create a second gavoitas, perhaps something more--create a place that truly epitomizes appropriate technology and living well with the planet.

I know, I know, I sound like a fucking tree-hugger, but hey, in alot of ways I am. Walking away from our self-imposed prison (as I see it, but whos to say you have to?) is going to require alot of brains and creativity. Can anyone think of a greater challenge than setting the foundation for an entirely new culture? (In this case, one modeled directly after the tribal theme.. seeing as its seen the most success in terms of longevity). Phew.. lol, nuff for now

Here's a few examples of what I mean:

Totalitarian Agriculture - A method of agriculture involving full time domestication of crops and livestock. The goal is to produce all food as human food. Anything that humans do not use is expendable under this method. It tends to be non sustainable and ultimately destructive to the ecosystem in which it is practiced. Food production increases to meet and exceed population needs. This allows continued population expansion beyond the ecosystem's carrying capacity. Two well known examples of this method of agriculture are found in the Mesopotamian Empire (6000 BCE) who turned the Fertile Crescent into a desert, and the United States (mid 1930s) who, through massive soil depletion common to this system, turned the Great Plains of North America into a "dust bowl." A modern example is Ethiopia, where this style of agriculture has led to cycles of population growth and famine.
(thanks to sacredlands.org)

That is a very good definition of what I mean by totalitarianistic agriculture..
also here is an example definition of what sort of culture we live in today, also thanks to the aforementioned website..

Estranged Culture - A culture that is based on the world view that they are separate from the world, and that the sacred only exists outside of creation. Their deities stand in judgment and must be appeased, placated, feared, and obeyed. They believe that their way of living is the one right way, and that all humans must live in the same manner.

alright.. well, theres a few more dips into my pool of ideas and into the ideas of those who are thinking along the same general lines as me. What you've read here are essentially what I try to get at when discussing human population problems and our cultures massive impact on the ecosystem. They simply said it more affluently than I have lol

Neither of those sounds like a good idea.

[QUOTE=RunAmok]Hey lofivinyl, you have a great little instruction manual there.. assuming I am trying to start a cult. However, that is hardly an assumption you are in too much of a position to make. Did I in any place start spouting some message on this forum,blah blah blah blah blah blah etc etc etc ... Phew.. lol, nuff for now[/QUOTE]

Hi. Take yourself seriously much?

[QUOTE=Six On The Dot]Not an entirely intelligent, but somewhat relevant thought, it's just been floating around in my head... Which do you think would be more difficult: Building a new culture from something completely uncivilized or completely changing and rearranging the culture of a somewhat diverse group of people?[/QUOTE]

Think it would be easier to start an entirely new culture than to convert an old one. People get comfortable in their ways. But if they have no "ways" it may be easier to educate. Besides the fact that people will always fight what anything new or anything they don't understand. Try convincing a Jew or Muslim to believe in Christ. I would imagine it to be damn near impossible. Or try convincing a child to believe in Christ. Should be much easier. Not saying to go out and try to convert people to Christianity, just thought it might be a good way to explain my opinion.......

[QUOTE=Six On The Dot]Says the girl with her butt on the 'net.

This is where I giggle and run.[/QUOTE]

Wow. It sure would be remarkable if you could actually think of something else to say to me on occasion... *rolls eyes*

RunAmok, why dont you just go join a Kibbutz for a while and get this out of your system?

in a sense im all for this as long as religion is not involved.

[QUOTE]Hey lofivinyl, you have a great little instruction manual there.. assuming I am trying to start a cult. However, that is hardly an assumption you are in too much of a position to make. Did I in any place start spouting some message on this forum,blah blah blah blah blah blah etc etc etc ... Phew.. lol, nuff for now[/QUOTE]

And then you say

[QUOTE]Here's my perspective--our culture (meaning modern culture in general, its everywhere, often so pervasive in our lives that it has become ambient) is rapidly overpopulating itself, and, being a destructive way of life to begin with, by multiplying as we do (through means of "totalitarianistic agriculture" as it has been phrased) we are simply serving to expand upon the problem.

I really don't want to get into the logistics of why I so severely disagree with this culture, so all I'm gonna get at for now is that it is plainly self-destructive and I don't care to be a part of it.[/QUOTE]

You were right when you started, and then you were wrong. I separated the quotes at the exact point.

Dear Mister (Miss?) RunAmok,

Please read this book:

[url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0609805363/qid=1082431773/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-9250612-5154264?v=glance&s=books[/url]

I think that you'll get a lot out of it.

Yeah.. i tend to read up before i blurt. And yes I've read beyond civilization. Look, I guess this must sound like I'm trying to say I want to abandon technology entirely (or at least to some of you) and go back to living like a fucking pack animal (nothing wrong with living like that though) but that isn't the case. Honestly, I've just begun developing a vision for what I hope to be my lifestyle--the only hitch is this: in order to live tribally one needs a damned tribe! But hey, at this point all I have is a whole fucking pile of problems and not too much for a solution. Im still young though, and hopefully in time (and 1000 books, 10000000000 hours of experience later) i'll be living my dream.

And Gideon, please elaborate, how am I "wrong"?

superbug, no, im not much of a religionist.. (thatta word? lol) however, why should anyone prevent anyone else from finding comfort in their religion--i wouldn't stop anyone from being a member of my tribe based soley on their religion.

and (finally?) kit! WHAT THE FUCK

sorry, didn't finish on accident... like i was saying

kit! what is a kibbutz?

and on another note.. its not about getting this "out of my system" I've done alot of looking, and I plan to do alot more on the topic of sustainability of culture and ecological stability. Any of you who have read Daniel Quinn's work will have an idea of where I'm coming from. However, I am trying to make it a point not to soley focus on Quinn's writings--i'm currently in the process of re-educating myself, you might say, so that I can get a very broad perspective on what the "human problem" is.. how it came to be, and what I might be able to do to keep myself and my family out of the maelstrom that's likely to come when history's greatest super-culture collapses upon itself, or explodes, or simply erodes. To me its all about sustainability--culturally speaking and as far as my nearest genetics are concerned.

stinky patchouli granola
phew lol nuff said

"The kibbutz (Hebrew word for "communal settlement") is a unique rural community; a society dedicated to mutual aid and social justice; a socioeconomic system based on the principle of joint ownership of property, equality and cooperation of production, consumption and education; the fulfillment of the idea "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"; a home for those who have chosen it. "

read more here
[U][url]http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/kibbutz.html[/url][/U]

That's all well and good kit.. but thats a classic example of an "ism" society, precisely what I am trying to avoid.