the pill..for men

and only self absorbed individaulas like you brock, who could never get a girl to stay with them past one evening, would even bother with such a personalized attack, despite the fact that it's way off base.
i know you're really into portraying yourself to be as macho as you possibly can, brock, but really, don't you think you lay it on a little too thick sometimes? i'm far from emasculated, i don't do everything my wife tells me to. a realtionship is a two-way door, there are comprimises. i'm not saying my wife is going to do that, she probably wont, considering we don't have health insurance just yet (2 more months).
you're right, we have no idea what that will do to a man. on the other hand, we do know what the depo shot does to a woman, yet so many guys out there urge a woman to put herself through that, the pill is just as bad, if only temporary, and the patch, same deal.
you should remove your head from your shit filled ass and take a look around sometime, not everyone aspires to be a self-centered prick like you.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jane s. [/i]
[B]Nothing is entirely without side effects. [/B][/QUOTE]
It kills sperm. that's the side effect.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]and only self absorbed individaulas like you brock, who could never get a girl to stay with them past one evening, would even bother with such a personalized attack, despite the fact that it's way off base.
i know you're really into portraying yourself to be as macho as you possibly can, brock, but really, don't you think you lay it on a little too thick sometimes? i'm far from emasculated, i don't do everything my wife tells me to. a realtionship is a two-way door, there are comprimises. i'm not saying my wife is going to do that, she probably wont, considering we don't have health insurance just yet (2 more months).
you're right, we have no idea what that will do to a man. on the other hand, we do know what the depo shot does to a woman, yet so many guys out there urge a woman to put herself through that, the pill is just as bad, if only temporary, and the patch, same deal.
you should remove your head from your shit filled ass and take a look around sometime, not everyone aspires to be a self-centered prick like you. [/B][/QUOTE]

First off I've been married, so that ruins the whole one-night theory you begin with. Secondly... too macho? I don't think I'm macho. I do think I don't use phrases like "even playing field". I was making fun anyhow... having a jest... yes, it was personalized, but come on... you're a young man... a young man who sounds like an old man... a young man who sounds like an old man who's been pussywhipped beyond repair. If that's macho thinking, then so be it. Are you really so politically correct that you say things that feminists say? I'm not even anti-feminist... I think females should have rights... BUT those rights should not infringe on male rights... and most female rights do... because nothing is even or fair and saying even playing field is a complete misnomer. One does not exist. It's false in every sense. I hate when people say things should be fair. When did this start? Life is not fair. It shouldn't be fair. It's silly to think it should...

Compromises? Two-way doors? The only compromise in marriage is she gives in and lets you do or say things every once in a while which makes you feel manly or powerful. She holds the pursestrings. She wears the pants. Maybe not completely, but you keep talking like you do, and she will soon enough... and hell, maybe it's not even your wife... could be anyone's got you all confused. Maybe it's the media that makes you say politically-correct Oprah-friendly terms. MAybe it's reading Chicken Soup for the soul too many times. Maybe it's all sorts of things, I dunno, but you gotta admit, I don't know... have you always been such an adamate supporter of feminist equality? When you were a kid did you say "We should have an even playing field"? Maybe you did. Maybe you were one of 'those' kids...

I'm a self-centered prick because I don't want to take something that may fuck me up for life in the sex department? Listen... in theory, I'd take it. In theory, it sounds good. In theory, men and women are equal. Life isn't theory...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by qualitycontrolrep [/i]
[B]It kills sperm. that's the side effect. [/B][/QUOTE]

That's a pretty big side effect. How can mass genocide of sperm not effect your libido? Women don't need sperm to get horny. Men do...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]That's a pretty big side effect. How can mass genocide of sperm not effect your libido? Women don't need sperm to get horny. Men do... [/B][/QUOTE]
no, men need stimulus.
sperm expulsion is only a product of the stimulus.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]First off I've been married, so that ruins the whole one-night theory you begin with. Secondly... too macho? I don't think I'm macho. I do think I don't use phrases like "even playing field". I was making fun anyhow... having a jest... yes, it was personalized, but come on... you're a young man... a young man who sounds like an old man... a young man who sounds like an old man who's been pussywhipped beyond repair. If that's macho thinking, then so be it. Are you really so politically correct that you say things that feminists say? I'm not even anti-feminist... I think females should have rights... BUT those rights should not infringe on male rights... and most female rights do... because nothing is even or fair and saying even playing field is a complete misnomer. One does not exist. It's false in every sense. I hate when people say things should be fair. When did this start? Life is not fair. It shouldn't be fair. It's silly to think it should...

Compromises? Two-way doors? The only compromise in marriage is she gives in and lets you do or say things every once in a while which makes you feel manly or powerful. She holds the pursestrings. She wears the pants. Maybe not completely, but you keep talking like you do, and she will soon enough... and hell, maybe it's not even your wife... could be anyone's got you all confused. Maybe it's the media that makes you say politically-correct Oprah-friendly terms. MAybe it's reading Chicken Soup for the soul too many times. Maybe it's all sorts of things, I dunno, but you gotta admit, I don't know... have you always been such an adamate supporter of feminist equality? When you were a kid did you say "We should have an even playing field"? Maybe you did. Maybe you were one of 'those' kids...

I'm a self-centered prick because I don't want to take something that may fuck me up for life in the sex department? Listen... in theory, I'd take it. In theory, it sounds good. In theory, men and women are equal. Life isn't theory... [/B][/QUOTE]
yes, i'm a young man, a young man who thinks like an older man. it's a product of the life i've lived, and i'm ok with it. you aren't, deal with it. and it has nothing to do with political correctness, i think things through rationally, and rationally, it's a good thing.
and your view of comprimise in a relationship is very skewed. comprimise in my relationship works both ways. i've not gotten my metaphorical balls cut off, in fact, now that i'm not worrying about finding a date, or finding someone to make love with, i can devote much more of my time actually thinking, and being more true to myself. my live is not lived during the time i get between the sheets, it is lived during the time i'm out living. your definition of comprimise just shows what you expect from a woman, and what you'll end up with every last time.
this topic isn't even about femenist equality, in fact it's the opposite, it's about actual equality, providing both sexes with the same opportunities. and "even the playing field" isn't a tell tale phrase for anything. it is just a phrase meaning exactly what the words spell out.
and you're right, men and women aren't equal. but that doesn't mean equality isn't something to strive for.
that's all just in response to what you've said in the quoted post. i'd like to add a few things. i'm really fucking sorry your marriage didn't work out, but you have to drop the pro-sexism attitude, and realize that people are different, even within the sexes. you are older than i, yet you act like an 18 year old always letting his dick lead the way. you usually have something to add to a discussion, yet this time all you've added is a personal and narrow-minded opinion, which is something you usually will go out of your way to make fun of. you find it fun to poke at other's lifestyles, lifestyles that are so different from yours that you feel you need to re-educate, or perhaps a better word would be convert, those persons to your way of thinking. it's like a witch hunt for you, they either convert or burn. damned if i'm going to let you keep doing this brock. your opinion may be popular with the crowd of pubescent males on this site, but those pubescent males are going to out-grow you quickly enough, and hopefully understand that the world isn't their fuck-hole. i hope someday you meet someone who will help you lose your hatred, and gain a more objective view of the world.
until then, make all the comments you like, even at me. i'll be taking comfort in knowing that every last thing you can say about me probably will be wrong.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]no, men need stimulus.
sperm expulsion is only a product of the stimulus. [/B][/QUOTE]

Whatever you say quasi-moto. All I know is that when I'm all cummed-out, I'm all cummed-out. That's why they call it drinking 'em dry. I can spoo and I can spoo and I can spoo no more. Don't matter how much stimulus you give me, my prick can only take so much abuse before it will rise no more. That's what I mean by effect on libido. The longer since I last ejaculated, the more horny I am. Simple. More sperm in my sack. A full sack is a happy sack. A happy sack is a horny sack. On and on til the breaka breaka dawn...

My original point didn't touch on the practical side of things, only the theoretical. Practically, I wouldn't touch it until it'd gone through a [i]lot[/i] of testing.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]Who needs an even playing field? What's so even about it? It's not even... there is no male/female demilitarized zone. Women don't want equality. They want men to play on their terms by their rules. Like I said the other day... my impression of male/female equality... Woman: "I'm as tough as you. Ouch! Don't hit so hard"... [/B][/QUOTE]

As much as I enjoy generalisations like this (because they're often true), I've met girls who genuinely [i]do[/i] wish for equality, and in so doing began to stop taking the stance you do.

Most of the girls I was friends with throughout High School became feminazis who really do behave like you say... so look... bah, I'll side with you there. Lots of 'feminists' really don't want equality, and when I bump into them I consider them free game, as are racists or other elitists. Making them cry is a personal hobby of mine - probably because it's often so difficult. Hey, it just makes the problem worse, but it's just so damned [b]fun[/b].

As amusing as it is, I just can't actually see a solid point to any of Brock's chest thumping here, except a genuine fear of females having any control.

*scratches head*

But this kind of... well... taking part of that control [i]away[/i]... I just... uh... well, maybe his first post is perfectly correct, and this is all simply him reacting badly to having his genitals fucked with.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]yes, i'm a young man, a young man who thinks like an older man. it's a product of the life i've lived, and i'm ok with it. you aren't, deal with it. and it has nothing to do with political correctness, i think things through rationally, and rationally, it's a good thing.
and your view of comprimise in a relationship is very skewed. comprimise in my relationship works both ways. i've not gotten my metaphorical balls cut off, in fact, now that i'm not worrying about finding a date, or finding someone to make love with, i can devote much more of my time actually thinking, and being more true to myself. my live is not lived during the time i get between the sheets, it is lived during the time i'm out living. your definition of comprimise just shows what you expect from a woman, and what you'll end up with every last time.
this topic isn't even about femenist equality, in fact it's the opposite, it's about actual equality, providing both sexes with the same opportunities. and "even the playing field" isn't a tell tale phrase for anything. it is just a phrase meaning exactly what the words spell out.
and you're right, men and women aren't equal. but that doesn't mean equality isn't something to strive for.
that's all just in response to what you've said in the quoted post. i'd like to add a few things. i'm really fucking sorry your marriage didn't work out, but you have to drop the pro-sexism attitude, and realize that people are different, even within the sexes. you are older than i, yet you act like an 18 year old always letting his dick lead the way. you usually have something to add to a discussion, yet this time all you've added is a personal and narrow-minded opinion, which is something you usually will go out of your way to make fun of. you find it fun to poke at other's lifestyles, lifestyles that are so different from yours that you feel you need to re-educate, or perhaps a better word would be convert, those persons to your way of thinking. it's like a witch hunt for you, they either convert or burn. damned if i'm going to let you keep doing this brock. your opinion may be popular with the crowd of pubescent males on this site, but those pubescent males are going to out-grow you quickly enough, and hopefully understand that the world isn't their fuck-hole. i hope someday you meet someone who will help you lose your hatred, and gain a more objective view of the world.
until then, make all the comments you like, even at me. i'll be taking comfort in knowing that every last thing you can say about me probably will be wrong. [/B][/QUOTE]

I've never been pro-sexist. I think sexist bastards are assholes. I also think people who think sexist bastards are assholes are assholes too. I especially think people who think people aren't allowed to think for themselves are asholes, so why not drop the feminist speech about how we should all strive for happiness and equality and kumbayah hippie shit. You aren't free-er now that you are married. You are more confined. You don't have more time to think and do, not unless you ignore your wife and kids. Being single is not any better than being married persay, but marriage is not so fucking great, so quit pretending. See, there are guys like you, granted... guys who think men and women should be 50-50, as if that's possible. Men who think that one woman for life, one vagina for life is enough. Men who get married young and never desire to explore life outside marriage. I was once that way myself. I'm not against people like that, but face it... you have 'settled'. You have given up on ever finding anything better. You have decided you've gone as far as you can. You have explored all there is to explorein your marriage. What's left? Nothing. Years and years and years of nothing. Just being happy and 'equal' and growing old together. Good for you. I envy you that. I envy your togetherness. I envy your ability to decide at such a young age what you will be doing for the rest of your entire life. So dig into those books. Explore all there is to know. Realize that you are stuck and can do nothing more than theorize about life. You got a career. A family. That's your life. It won't change. Are you planning on quitting the library business and traveling the world? Didn't think so. Your life is not for every one. Good luck with that. Your wife is very lucky to have found a man like you. Good for her. You two are a match made in heaven. Hooray for monogamy and anti-sexism and let's all just cut our dicks off and have vaginas. That'd be great, m'kay?

Now with that said, one last thing. Why is it I'm an asshole for being me and speaking my mind, but Tuffy is a moderator for doing the same and insulting me? I'm such a bad boy. Naughty Brock. Jesus. You'd think you actually thought life was fair or something. Whatever happened to equality? Are you anti-men who act like men? Should all men talk like effeminate intellectuals into light bondage? Fuck that noise...

*scratches head, then wanders off to go get free shit cos it's Australia Day*

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rohan [/i]
[B]My original point didn't touch on the practical side of things, only the theoretical. Practically, I wouldn't touch it until it'd gone through a [i]lot[/i] of testing.

As much as I enjoy generalisations like this (because they're often true), I've met girls who genuinely [i]do[/i] wish for equality, and in so doing began to stop taking the stance you do.

Most of the girls I was friends with throughout High School became feminazis who really do behave like you say... so look... bah, I'll side with you there. Lots of 'feminists' really don't want equality, and when I bump into them I consider them free game, as are racists or other elitists. Making them cry is a personal hobby of mine - probably because it's often so difficult. Hey, it just makes the problem worse, but it's just so damned [b]fun[/b].

As amusing as it is, I just can't actually see a solid point to any of Brock's chest thumping here, except a genuine fear of females having any control.

*scratches head*

But this kind of... well... taking part of that control [i]away[/i]... I just... uh... well, maybe his first post is perfectly correct, and this is all simply him reacting badly to having his genitals fucked with. [/B][/QUOTE]

Once you stop fearing the worst, you lose the ability not to fear. You start saying shit like "even playing field"? And "why is life not fair?" and "I'm sorry honey... my bad... you are right.... I am wrong... I love you forever and ever... marry me so I will not be alone forever... I'm not clingy, but I need someone in my life to tell me what to do and make sure I pay the bills... marry me if for only because I am codependent and am afraid of ever being alone..."

Brock seems to be saying that he doesn't want to take the pill because it is not representative of his idea of himself. Take a stand, Brock, don't let anyone push you around. Your body is yours, your rights.

I'm not going to take birth control either. It makes you fat and moody, and it's just a hassle to pay for it and remember it. Funk dat. He has to buy the condoms and he has to put them on or I'm just not going to have sex with him. My boyfriend used to pressure me to get birth control and gave me these lame speeches about really feeling me and truly being inside me. But did we go halfsies on the pills? No! I missed lunch one day to go to the gynocologist, I paid for it all, I took the pills, and it's not worth it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rohan [/i]
[B]*scratches head, then wanders off to go get free shit cos it's Australia Day* [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the insult Rohan. I like when people go out of their way to insult me for no good reason. It makes me happy. I scratch my head back at you and tell you this useless info for no reason and go do other shit since I am ignoring you like you ignore me. Isn't this fun. Let's all just make useless comments puting down one another...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Maddetchke Malorkus [/i]
[B]Brock seems to be saying that he doesn't want to take the pill because it is not representative of his idea of himself. Take a stand, Brock, don't let anyone push you around. Your body is yours, your rights.

I'm not going to take birth control either. It makes you fat and moody, and it's just a hassle to pay for it and remember it. Funk dat. He has to buy the condoms and he has to put them on or I'm just not going to have sex with him. My boyfriend used to pressure me to get birth control and gave me these lame speeches about really feeling me and truly being inside me. But did we go halfsies on the pills? No! I missed lunch one day to go to the gynocologist, I paid for it all, I took the pills, and it's not worth it. [/B][/QUOTE]

No. I said simply I ain't taking no pill that might screw up my horniness. That's all. I believe in responsibility. I wear condoms. I don't bitch about it.

Actually, that was me genuinely puzzled and genuinely leaving for the day It's 9am here.

I have no beef with you. I find you entertaining and for the most part I agree with many of your rants.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rohan [/i]
[B]Actually, that was me genuinely puzzled and genuinely leaving for the day It's 9am here.

I have no beef with you. I find you entertaining and for the most part I agree with many of your rants. [/B][/QUOTE]

I think I have a fever today. I've been sweating since this morning and I feel like shit. I didn't sleep a wink last night. I'm not entertaining today, nor rant-ready, but goddamnit, I stick by everything I said all day. I am me. Don't ask me not to be me. Call me crazy. Call me a liar. Call me an imbecile. Call me sad, pathetic, lonely, depressed, an ashole, an egocentric, a sexist, a dickweed, just plain ol' sorry son-of-a-bitch, but don't ever tell me I don't say what I mean or mean what I say or back-up my reasoning no matter how ill-conceived my ideas may be. Bullshit is one thing, but I don't talk bullshit. I talk the truth as I see it. Same as all the other assholes out roaming this fucked-up world. I won't ever back down from that. I won't ever apologize for being myself. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe that's not fair, but goddamnit, maybe things shouldn't be fair or nice or any of that silly shit you were raised to believe by whitewashing parents and teachers and television...

wow

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]brock. your opinion may be popular with the crowd of pubescent males on this site, but those pubescent males are going to out-grow you quickly enough, and hopefully understand that the world isn't their fuck-hole.[/B][/QUOTE]

Why must you go and stereotype succotash moon like that... succo's my sublime beau...

I mean it. Everyone says how I only make pubescent teen males happy. I don't buy it. You're leaving a lot of smart, intelligent men and women out of the loop. I won't name names. I don't want anyone to feel left out. Plus, closet fans of me might'nt want to be outted just yet. Youknow who you are and I thank you all for making my life simply marvelous...

I worry that more men might feel like Brock. Not enough testing, not my responsibility, not on your life.

I take depo. They have NO idea what long term effects it could have, but they suspect breast cancer is one of them. If men aren't willing to take the same risks women take to prevent having a child, because it is not just the womans responsibility, then there is a serious gap in striving for equality. Note the word equality. EQUAL. I am sick to fucking death of this being called a feminist issue. I am the furthest thing from a feminist, but I feel like this really is a huge step in technology. It gives power to both sides. It gives options to both sides. Why is it that women are expected to fuck with their hormones, and risk their health, while men are just expected to put a little jacket on the dude?

And Rohan - it ISN'T that easy for a woman to gain control of raising a child. Her control lies in the abortion option, but once the fathers name goes on the birth certificate, things get hairy. My sister does not want her babies drug dealing, jobless dick of father to be involved, but the courts support having both parents. She can't get his parental rights removed despite the fact that he didn't show up for the first 2 years of the kids life, he hasn't paid anything to support it, he has been in jail twice for selling and is going in again for illegal weapons. There has been a push back in society for fathers rights and it has made it so that people like him can keep their parental rights just by saying they want them. He has never even been alone with the kid. Nice fucking parent.

[QUOTE]Why is it that women are expected to fuck with their hormones, and risk their health, while men are just expected to put a little jacket on the dude? [/QUOTE]

cause obviously women will, simple as that

Oh, so because women will take the responsibility (because obviously SOMEONE has to) and men won't, that makes it right to expect that? I really hope you are kidding.

whoa dont jump down my throat because guys aren't gonna take these pills...all i'm saying is, this who equality argument is pointless and that since some women are already taking birth control stuff (whether or not it has side effects) men arent gonna step up PERIOD

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]... once the fathers name goes on the birth certificate, things get hairy. My sister does not want her babies drug dealing, jobless dick of father to be involved, but the courts support having both parents. She can't get his parental rights removed despite the fact that he didn't show up for the first 2 years of the kids life, he hasn't paid anything to support it, he has been in jail twice for selling and is going in again for illegal weapons. There has been a push back in society for fathers rights and it has made it so that people like him can keep their parental rights just by saying they want them. He has never even been alone with the kid. Nice fucking parent. [/B][/QUOTE]

All dads aren't bad dads like all moms aren't good moms. I think father's should have more rights. Some mother's aren't really the best for the kid's environment. Anyway, if anything maybe people should just use more responsibility on deciding who they fuck. The pill for either sex doesn't do anything to prevent disease.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by phytoplankton [/i]
[B]whoa dont jump down my throat because guys aren't gonna take these pills...all i'm saying is, this who equality argument is pointless and that since some women are already taking birth control stuff (whether or not it has side effects) men arent gonna step up PERIOD [/B][/QUOTE]

Phyto, that argument is weak and small-minded. Men are already taking it, and I can guarantee you that more men will start to. Not all men think like you: sheeeet, she is already taking it, why should I have to?

That is exactly the point. Men think the responsibility is the womans, but it is not. And I don't blame the woman one bit if she asks the guy to 'step up' or accept that he isn't getting any.

Keep it up, Phyto. You can remain a virgin forever.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]All dads aren't bad dads like all moms aren't good moms. I think father's should have more rights. Some mother's aren't really the best for the kid's environment. Anyway, if anything maybe people should just use more responsibility on deciding who they fuck. The pill for either sex doesn't do anything to prevent disease. [/B][/QUOTE]

No doubt, Laz. But this 'father' is CLEARLY not a good father. In fact, he isn't a father at all. He is a sperm donor, not to mention the fact that he raped my sister. The courts agree with you, that fathers should have more rights. And they are taking it to the extreme that shitty pseudo-fathers get to keep their rights when they are cleary unfit parents.

And this isn't a debate over who you fuck or disease. It is simply about birth control options.

boo fuckin hoo kristinieieiepoo

Oh gosh, compelling argument, you twit.

I think people should wait til they're married.

to use birth control?

Yes, birth control shouldn't be available to unmarried people! It tempts them to take risks!

[SIZE=4][b]DID YOU KNOW?[/SIZE][/b]
Condoms don't protect you from HIV/AIDS!

The pope said so, thus....[b]it must be true[/b]

Very True, Nothing is 100% Safe! Except For Abstinence!

[img]http://www.straightdope.com/art/1978/780217.gif[/img]
Keeps me safe from myself!

(moved to politics and current affairs so it doesn't get lost in GD)

as i understand it, the pill is undergoing testing right now. rationally thinking, it is a very good alternative and does empower males by providing them the same discretion in choice of birth control (how many times do you hear a guy say "i want to have a baby"?) that a female has.
and let me point out that female alternatives (barrier methods aside) have been proven to have some rather unpleasant side effects, and the depo shot seems to have some of the worst.
as for parental control over progeny, the mother does have a better chance of being awarded full custody. alene's right, if the father's name is on the birth cert, it makes it more complicated, but a father's signature is not required, and in fact, when my daughter was born, i had to request, in the presence of my wife, to have my name put on the birth cert. law and medical institutions usually do defer to the mother, but that is slowly, very slowly, changing.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]Why is it that women are expected to fuck with their hormones, and risk their health, while men are just expected to put a little jacket on the dude?[/B]

Because our culture is a bit of a mess, and our own monogamous pair-forming behaviour does not fit particular well with the practicalities of how we, as a species, reproduce. Because men find their position threatened and in desperation will fight tooth and nail to retain their dominance. Because there are giant flaws in our system that we seem unable to identify, much less rectify, that are causing immense problems in maintaing our pair-forming monogamous behaviour effectively. (If we were [i]could[/i] do it effectively...)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]I worry that more men might feel like Brock. Not enough testing, not my responsibility, not on your life.

I take depo. They have NO idea what long term effects it could have, but they suspect breast cancer is one of them. If men aren't willing to take the same risks women take to prevent having a child, because it is not just the womans responsibility, then there is a serious gap in striving for equality. Note the word equality. EQUAL. I am sick to fucking death of this being called a feminist issue. I am the furthest thing from a feminist, but I feel like this really is a huge step in technology. It gives power to both sides. It gives options to both sides. Why is it that women are expected to fuck with their hormones, and risk their health, while men are just expected to put a little jacket on the dude?

And Rohan - it ISN'T that easy for a woman to gain control of raising a child. Her control lies in the abortion option, but once the fathers name goes on the birth certificate, things get hairy. My sister does not want her babies drug dealing, jobless dick of father to be involved, but the courts support having both parents. She can't get his parental rights removed despite the fact that he didn't show up for the first 2 years of the kids life, he hasn't paid anything to support it, he has been in jail twice for selling and is going in again for illegal weapons. There has been a push back in society for fathers rights and it has made it so that people like him can keep their parental rights just by saying they want them. He has never even been alone with the kid. Nice fucking parent. [/B][/QUOTE]

There you go again, misquoting me entirely. I understand completely. Women do this. I say I'm responsible but that I respect my penis, and they twist it to say "what an irresonsible jerk! and he has a penis, the thing I hate more than anything! Men with their penises! And their goddamn irresponsibility!"

You know why they call them "women's rights"? Okay, neither do I, but I do know they aren't called "men's rights" so why should I care?

Fucking seriously... I don't believe for a second, not even a millimeter of a second... not even the teensiest fraction of a second ever, that alene gives two shits about "men's rights"... no woman does. So why do women expect men to care about women's rights? Because they can. Because men like trypdwyre marry them and tell them "yes dear, I too want an even playing field... now, why is it you never give me fellatio anymore? What happened to the long, sloppy blowjobs now that we are married? Why do you only ever kiss my pee-pee on my birthday... two years ago?"

Fact is this. Alene takes Depo. Okay. Great for her. No one forces Depo on her. I'm sorry it has side effects, but why is it my fault she needs birth control? I'm not fucking her. Don't take it out on me. Get pissed at your current live-in penis, alene. He's the one not taking the sperm-killing pill and forcing you to get breast cancer... meanwhile let's all just put aside for a moment the fact that sex is NOT required to survive. You choose to fuck... you choose to take risks. No one makes you spread your legs and take it balls deep. That's all you. Oh, and maybe all him too. But it sure ain't all me, so again, why is it my fault? Why am I irresponsible because you take Depo and open your twat for strange cock? I just don't get that. Is it some kind of mindmeld thing?

Women aren't expected to fuck with their hormones. They do it because they want to. You make the choice. No one forces you. So then it becomes symantics... you feel like it's not fair that your hormones should be fucked with, so goddamnit, I want men to suffer too! What you want is not equality or shared power. What you want is shared suffering! What you are asking for is even more suffering in this world. I'm a woman, hear me roar! Look at me, I have breast cancer! All men must suffer and get testicular cancer now!

I know that may sound over-the-top, but drastic times call for drastic measures. Use your brain. You know I am saying things that make sense, as inundated with excitement as they may be...

As far as father's go, obviously shitty fathers exist. Same as pornographers exist. Ever seen People versus Larry Flynt? Do you want to take away all freedoms because of a few bad seeds? You want to take away that shitheels rights for your sister, but have you ever contemplated the repercussions for other fathers if the courts override his parental rights, just because she thinks it's better that way? You are obviously biased. Nothing wrong with that. I sympathize. It's not fair even. But neither is anything in this fucking world and the sooner we realize this fact, the sooner we can move on and live the best lives we can given the situation...

By the way, I just give trypdwyre shit because this is his forum. Politics and Current Affairs = Trypdwyre.

Ahem...

Just so you know, I'm a woman who does give a damn about men's rights.

Few women are forced to take The Pill. They take it by choice to be safe. Men should get the same choice about this new Men's Pill. I know plenty of women who won't take The Pill because they are scared of some of the side affects it has. That's fine, so long as they are willing to take some other kinds of precautions. If they don't then it's their stupid fault if they get knocked up. Same deal with men.

I'd also like to add that this Pill for Men isn't guarenteed to work for all men, same as the Pill doesn't work for all women. I was concieved while my mum was on The Pill, so this new pill for men isn't for everyone.

And I don't blame guys for not wanting to use it since it's still in the experimental stages. Tell me, how many girls out there would try the pill if it were still in the experimental stages? Not many I'm sure. There's still a hoard of possible side-effects that need to be investigated. For example: what if when the guy comes off the male pill and starts producing sperm agian, he's only producing male sperm and this happened to 50% -75% of all males who used it? how fucked up would the human population end up then?

I'd encourage guys to use it if it was tested and proven safe, but it's not something I'm gonna tell guys they have to take when it's still iffy. All new drugs and treatments are made to sound awesome when they are in the testing stage. All sorts of things cause cancer. Hell, I got cancer and they still aren't sure what caused it cos I wasn't taking anything that could have. Some poeple are just more susceptible, regardless of what they take or don't. Living sucks, deal with it.

Now that I've said that, I'd also like to say that it would be cool if guys would try this if it ends up available to everyone and proven safe. It would make your girls stop nagging you, and just think of how great sex will be without that annoying little rubber (after you and your girl have been tested of course).

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Xi [/i]
[B]Ahem...

Just so you know, I'm a woman who does give a damn about men's rights.[/B][/QUOTE]

I understand your comments about the male contraceptive pill, and how you seem to be for the safety of men instead of just saying that men should take the pills regardless like everyone else seems to assert, but I'm really quite curious as to why you "give a damn about men's rights"... is there an actual reason, or is it as I suspect, because you are enlightened to the fact that women need men around because women need a penis to fuck them. I mean,if that's the only reason, then basically, you shouldn't give a damn about men's rights at all because there are all kinds of alternatives to penis available. I face facts. MEn are useless. We serve no purpose a turkey baster and a dildo couldn't do... and if there is some other reason you care about us, then please let me know. I'd really be interested in finding out why men's rights are important to you...

OK, you know how you guys get really annoyed at the way heaps of girls just keep rambling on about girl stuff, it pisses me off just as much. It also pisses me off the way so many women carry on about how women need rights to be equal to men. We already have our equal rights and they should just stop fucking carrying on about it. I'm all for women having equal rights, but now some of them are being ridiculous and trying to take it further, meaning they don't want equal rights, they want more, which is bloody stupid. So if there are going to be so many women fighting for more women's rights after we've already got equal rights, I'm gonna stick up for the guys to keep equality. Like all the women out there that want women's rights but still expect their men to go out and work all day while they stay at home and watch Jerry Springer and soaps.

And I get along with guys better than girls. Girls are back stabbing bitches. Guys are so much simpler and easy to deal with and actually keep me company. I have one closish female friend and I get along with her older brother than I get along with her. I don't actually see why I shouldn't care about men.

Women have had themselves in the spotlight for well over a century now, fighting for their rights which they've had for decades now. I guess I'm just sick of listening to it over and over again. And as soon as a guy tries to talk about mens rights he gets shot down. That's fucked. Why the hell should you guys be listening to us if we're not listening to you?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]i just want to clarify with you brock, you do realize that no one has said that guys should take it without testing, right? my stance was taken only if the testing comes with reasonable results. it's not available on the market, and testing on it has just begun in germany. [/B][/QUOTE]

"Reasonable" results is notgood enough for me. It may be good enough for you. I will not waste time arguing semantics. Fact is, they can test it in the morning, they can test it at noon, they can test it all night... unless it's 100% safe and effective and does not have any adverse effects on testosterone levels, especially above-normal, since not everyone wants to be average in this regard, then yeah, I ain't taking it. Besides, who does the testing? Which scientists are good ones and which aren't so good? Did the people tested have good health to begin with? Do they exercise? I could go on all day. Why do I mention this? Think about vitamins. The recommended allowance by the scientific community is not nearly enough to support a healthy active athlete. It is enough for a petite woman maybe. Enough to prevent scurvy. It is the bare minimum testing and evaluation. All medicine undergoes this sort of treatment. If you wanna trust things that are not 100-percent, than that is your choice. I stick by my choice not to. I certainly am not gonna trust german scientists...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]"Reasonable" results is notgood enough for me. It may be good enough for you. I will not waste time arguing semantics. Fact is, they can test it in the morning, they can test it at noon, they can test it all night... unless it's 100% safe and effective and does not have any adverse effects on testosterone levels, especially above-normal, since not everyone wants to be average in this regard, then yeah, I ain't taking it. Besides, who does the testing? Which scientists are good ones and which aren't so good? Did the people tested have good health to begin with? Do they exercise? I could go on all day. Why do I mention this? Think about vitamins. The recommended allowance by the scientific community is not nearly enough to support a healthy active athlete. It is enough for a petite woman maybe. Enough to prevent scurvy. It is the bare minimum testing and evaluation. All medicine undergoes this sort of treatment. If you wanna trust things that are not 100-percent, than that is your choice. I stick by my choice not to. I certainly am not gonna trust german scientists... [/B][/QUOTE]
fine then, don't take them. i'm not forcing you to, nor am i trying to convince you to. my point was this thread is about the hypothetical idea of taking the pill under the assumption that it is reasonably safe.
you're right about the vitamins, but that is just smoke to this conversation.
and again, you're right, which doctor or scientist does one trust? i don't know, but i'd be more willing to bank on a scientist's or doctor's research than on your opinion. but again, this point is just smoke...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]There you go again, misquoting me entirely. I understand completely. Women do this. I say I'm responsible but that I respect my penis, and they twist it to say "what an irresonsible jerk! and he has a penis, the thing I hate more than anything! Men with their penises! And their goddamn irresponsibility!"
[/B][/QUOTE]

Misquoting you? Hardly. You repeat over and over in your big Brock voice that you won't take them because they could mess with you. Did I miss something? It seems I cleary understand your stance. I get it. I understand. You feel that you don't want to risk your health (could any of the stuff you take to beef up harm your health? Who cares!). And that is fine, many people feel this way. The issue isn't 'does Brock want to take the pill' the issue is that men won't take the pill. Your personal feeling is your own. Many women won't take the pill for health reasons. But what it boils down to is that many men feel like they don't need to take the pill because the woman can do it. It is her job.

[QUOTE] [B]You know why they call them "women's rights"? Okay, neither do I, but I do know they aren't called "men's rights" so why should I care?

Fucking seriously... I don't believe for a second, not even a millimeter of a second... not even the teensiest fraction of a second ever, that alene gives two shits about "men's rights"... no woman does. So why do women expect men to care about women's rights? Because they can. Because men like trypdwyre marry them and tell them "yes dear, I too want an even playing field... now, why is it you never give me fellatio anymore? What happened to the long, sloppy blowjobs now that we are married? Why do you only ever kiss my pee-pee on my birthday... two years ago?"
[/B][/QUOTE]

Such absolute bullshit, Brock. Once again. I don't give a rats ass about men or women rights. I give a shit about human rights. And even more, I give a shit about the people I care abouts rights. I can't honestly say that I care if the guy down the street gets screwed. I care about things as the effect me. So I care if they change abortion rights because that effects me and I care if they change the law about male parental rights because that could effect me. Stereo-typing is bullshit and you should know that by now.

[QUOTE] [B]
Fact is this. Alene takes Depo. Okay. Great for her. No one forces Depo on her. I'm sorry it has side effects, but why is it my fault she needs birth control? I'm not fucking her. Don't take it out on me. Get pissed at your current live-in penis, alene. He's the one not taking the sperm-killing pill and forcing you to get breast cancer... meanwhile let's all just put aside for a moment the fact that sex is NOT required to survive. You choose to fuck... you choose to take risks. No one makes you spread your legs and take it balls deep. That's all you. Oh, and maybe all him too. But it sure ain't all me, so again, why is it my fault? Why am I irresponsible because you take Depo and open your twat for strange cock? I just don't get that. Is it some kind of mindmeld thing?
[/B][/QUOTE]

I am not pissed at anyone, taking depo is completely my choice and I am happy with it. What we are debating is the gap in responsibility and options. Before this there were very few options for men if they didn't want to use a condom. Now there is a choice, but typically, men are afraid of it. It took them how many years to even start testing this? Meanwhile they think of bigger and brighter new ways for women to be in control of the situation. This option gives men some control. What is wrong with that? When did this turn into anyone's fault? When did this turn into Alene doesn't want to take birth control? And not that it matters, but if it were tested more and proven safe, my current live in penis would take the man pill.

[QUOTE] [B]
Women aren't expected to fuck with their hormones. They do it because they want to. You make the choice. No one forces you. So then it becomes symantics... you feel like it's not fair that your hormones should be fucked with, so goddamnit, I want men to suffer too! What you want is not equality or shared power. What you want is shared suffering! What you are asking for is even more suffering in this world. I'm a woman, hear me roar! Look at me, I have breast cancer! All men must suffer and get testicular cancer now!

I know that may sound over-the-top, but drastic times call for drastic measures. Use your brain. You know I am saying things that make sense, as inundated with excitement as they may be...
[/B][/QUOTE]

They don't do it because they want to. No woman sits around and thinks, gosh, I want to fuck with my health because it sounds fun! They do it because there is not many alternatives. Sure, they can choose to use condoms or what have you, but they are also choosing a much higher risk of getting pregnant. If a woman wants security, this is their only choice. I fail to see how you can't understand that no one wants Brock on the pill. They want another option. It has nothing to do with wanting someone else to suffer, and there is no such thing as shared suffering unless you break your leg at the same time as your friend so that you can share. If you go back and read what has been said a billion times, we are debating on the premise that the pill is proven equally safe as the birth control for women. If that is the case, why wouldn't you take part of the responsibility if you were in a relationship. This is hypothetical, Brock. Why wouldn't you take it for a year and then she can take it for a year? What are you so afraid of? Does this threaten your big man ego? I think Rohan hit it right on the head.

[QUOTE] [B]
As far as father's go, obviously shitty fathers exist. Same as pornographers exist. Ever seen People versus Larry Flynt? Do you want to take away all freedoms because of a few bad seeds? You want to take away that shitheels rights for your sister, but have you ever contemplated the repercussions for other fathers if the courts override his parental rights, just because she thinks it's better that way? You are obviously biased. Nothing wrong with that. I sympathize. It's not fair even. But neither is anything in this fucking world and the sooner we realize this fact, the sooner we can move on and live the best lives we can given the situation...
[/B][/QUOTE]

What the fuck are you talking about now? I think the whole point of my rant is that I can't stand the blanket laws. I can't stand the fact that the judge just automatically gives rights simply because he is trying to be PC because of the push-back for male rights. It should be taken CASE BY CASE. Isn't that what the courts are for? If a father never pays a cent, never sees his kid for 2 years, is tossed in jail for all kinds of terrible offenses, he should not have rights to see his kid anymore. I don't care if he is the natural father. And on the other side, if a guy tries to see the kid, provides a safe environment, offers support, he should fully get rights. Same with a woman. If she is a fuckwit, she should lose her rights. Things aren't fair, but if you take a second to look at the situation instead of making assumptions, things can certainly improve.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]Misquoting you? Hardly. You repeat over and over in your big Brock voice that you won't take them because they could mess with you. Did I miss something? It seems I cleary understand your stance. I get it. I understand. You feel that you don't want to risk your health (could any of the stuff you take to beef up harm your health? Who cares!). And that is fine, many people feel this way. The issue isn't 'does Brock want to take the pill' the issue is that men won't take the pill. Your personal feeling is your own. Many women won't take the pill for health reasons. But what it boils down to is that many men feel like they don't need to take the pill because the woman can do it. It is her job.

Such absolute bullshit, Brock. Once again. I don't give a rats ass about men or women rights. I give a shit about human rights. And even more, I give a shit about the people I care abouts rights. I can't honestly say that I care if the guy down the street gets screwed. I care about things as the effect me. So I care if they change abortion rights because that effects me and I care if they change the law about male parental rights because that could effect me. Stereo-typing is bullshit and you should know that by now.

I am not pissed at anyone, taking depo is completely my choice and I am happy with it. What we are debating is the gap in responsibility and options. Before this there were very few options for men if they didn't want to use a condom. Now there is a choice, but typically, men are afraid of it. It took them how many years to even start testing this? Meanwhile they think of bigger and brighter new ways for women to be in control of the situation. This option gives men some control. What is wrong with that? When did this turn into anyone's fault? When did this turn into Alene doesn't want to take birth control? And not that it matters, but if it were tested more and proven safe, my current live in penis would take the man pill.

They don't do it because they want to. No woman sits around and thinks, gosh, I want to fuck with my health because it sounds fun! They do it because there is not many alternatives. Sure, they can choose to use condoms or what have you, but they are also choosing a much higher risk of getting pregnant. If a woman wants security, this is their only choice. I fail to see how you can't understand that no one wants Brock on the pill. They want another option. It has nothing to do with wanting someone else to suffer, and there is no such thing as shared suffering unless you break your leg at the same time as your friend so that you can share. If you go back and read what has been said a billion times, we are debating on the premise that the pill is proven equally safe as the birth control for women. If that is the case, why wouldn't you take part of the responsibility if you were in a relationship. This is hypothetical, Brock. Why wouldn't you take it for a year and then she can take it for a year? What are you so afraid of? Does this threaten your big man ego? I think Rohan hit it right on the head.

What the fuck are you talking about now? I think the whole point of my rant is that I can't stand the blanket laws. I can't stand the fact that the judge just automatically gives rights simply because he is trying to be PC because of the push-back for male rights. It should be taken CASE BY CASE. Isn't that what the courts are for? If a father never pays a cent, never sees his kid for 2 years, is tossed in jail for all kinds of terrible offenses, he should not have rights to see his kid anymore. I don't care if he is the natural father. And on the other side, if a guy tries to see the kid, provides a safe environment, offers support, he should fully get rights. Same with a woman. If she is a fuckwit, she should lose her rights. Things aren't fair, but if you take a second to look at the situation instead of making assumptions, things can certainly improve. [/B][/QUOTE]

You make interesting points, so I will only dwell on a couple... keep in mind I am not arguing your opinion, just talking about your opinion...

"If a father never pays a cent, never sees his kid for 2 years, is tossed in jail for all kinds of terrible offenses, he should not have rights to see his kid anymore. I don't care if he is the natural father."

I can certainly understand why a woman would feel this way... maybe even a man, but you and I both know, this is a very personal thing for you considering you know the people in question. A father is father whether or not he is a good one. It doesn't matter if he sits in jail for 18 years while the kid grows up and never meets them. Maybe a bad father should not be allowed to have a kid, but if we took kids away from every bad father, well... let's just say there'd be a lot of fatherless children. I mean, is a father who's never around but pays child support a good father? Is a father who's always around and loves his kid but never paysa dime a bad father? There is so much gray area here. It's all opinion. I don't care about laws and courts and all that shit. I hear about I every day from my brother, a family lawyer. His wife is a case worker. All they do is handle shitty fathers and shitty mothers and deciding whether people should be parents. If life were ideal then bad parents would not exist. It isn't. People who should never procreate have kids. Who are we to say they shouldn't be allowed? The court system sucks. It always has. It is, however, all we have. Fathers are made and unmade. They just are... things can always improve, but last time I checked, being a fuckwit isn't illegal as far as I know... just look around this place...

About the depo, again, you decide. It's not anyone's fault but your own for taking it. You say you love it, and it's good for you personally, but then you say the side effects bother you. Which is it? I think beyond that what bothers me most is this statement:

"Why wouldn't you take it for a year and then she can take it for a year?"

What is 'that' all about? I've never heard such nonsense? This is like couples who make lists and tally deeds. This is like those couples who don't get along and say "I cooked last time! It's your turn! I did laundry yesterday! It's your turn to walk the dog!" God. I hope I'm never in a relationship where everything must be 50/50... as if 50/50 is even an option. No... relationships are never fair, and even when they are, they're not... because being fair is a chore... and once a relationship stops being something you want to do, once it becomes about keeping track of who did what and who does what, then it is no longer a relationship that I want to be in. In my opinion, a person should want to do things for their partner. They shouldn't have to be told that they have to. Not to mention, why switch off ever? Women have been taking the pill for years. I got no problem with them continuing this tradition. If I really "love' someone, and the pill harms them, then I'd rather get a vasectomy than take a pill that they give to sex offenders to kill their sperm... ever heard of chemical castration? It's not far off...

As far as it harming my ego or whatever, all I can say is that I pity the man who ends up with you, the ball-buster that you are. I don't mean that as an insult, but is this how you deal with people who disagree with you in real life? You put down their manhood? You try to make them feel bad for having an opinion different from yours? You're not the only one. Lots of women want control this way. It's really too bad, because sexual terrorism is not even necessary. I get it... you're opinionated. Great for you. Save your whip for your own man's balls...

Lastly stereotyping is generally not bullshit. Generally it's just a generalization. It may suck, but it's precisely what being ethical is all about...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]You make interesting points, so I will only dwell on a couple... keep in mind I am not arguing your opinion, just talking about your opinion...

"If a father never pays a cent, never sees his kid for 2 years, is tossed in jail for all kinds of terrible offenses, he should not have rights to see his kid anymore. I don't care if he is the natural father."

I can certainly understand why a woman would feel this way... maybe even a man, but you and I both know, this is a very personal thing for you considering you know the people in question. A father is father whether or not he is a good one. It doesn't matter if he sits in jail for 18 years while the kid grows up and never meets them. Maybe a bad father should not be allowed to have a kid, but if we took kids away from every bad father, well... let's just say there'd be a lot of fatherless children. I mean, is a father who's never around but pays child support a good father? Is a father who's always around and loves his kid but never paysa dime a bad father? There is so much gray area here. It's all opinion. I don't care about laws and courts and all that shit. I hear about I every day from my brother, a family lawyer. His wife is a case worker. All they do is handle shitty fathers and shitty mothers and deciding whether people should be parents. If life were ideal then bad parents would not exist. It isn't. People who should never procreate have kids. Who are we to say they shouldn't be allowed? The court system sucks. It always has. It is, however, all we have. Fathers are made and unmade. They just are... things can always improve, but last time I checked, being a fuckwit isn't illegal as far as I know... just look around this place...

About the depo, again, you decide. It's not anyone's fault but your own for taking it. You say you love it, and it's good for you personally, but then you say the side effects bother you. Which is it? I think beyond that what bothers me most is this statement:

"Why wouldn't you take it for a year and then she can take it for a year?"

What is 'that' all about? I've never heard such nonsense? This is like couples who make lists and tally deeds. This is like those couples who don't get along and say "I cooked last time! It's your turn! I did laundry yesterday! It's your turn to walk the dog!" God. I hope I'm never in a relationship where everything must be 50/50... as if 50/50 is even an option. No... relationships are never fair, and even when they are, they're not... because being fair is a chore... and once a relationship stops being something you want to do, once it becomes about keeping track of who did what and who does what, then it is no longer a relationship that I want to be in. In my opinion, a person should want to do things for their partner. They shouldn't have to be told that they have to. Not to mention, why switch off ever? Women have been taking the pill for years. I got no problem with them continuing this tradition. If I really "love' someone, and the pill harms them, then I'd rather get a vasectomy than take a pill that they give to sex offenders to kill their sperm... ever heard of chemical castration? It's not far off...

As far as it harming my ego or whatever, all I can say is that I pity the man who ends up with you, the ball-buster that you are. I don't mean that as an insult, but is this how you deal with people who disagree with you in real life? You put down their manhood? You try to make them feel bad for having an opinion different from yours? You're not the only one. Lots of women want control this way. It's really too bad, because sexual terrorism is not even necessary. I get it... you're opinionated. Great for you. Save your whip for your own man's balls...

Lastly stereotyping is generally not bullshit. Generally it's just a generalization. It may suck, but it's precisely what being ethical is all about... [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with you Brock. Who are we to decide that a parent is good or worthy. In fact, last time I checked, there are very few honestly good parents. It is all trial and error. I guess that my main problem is the fact that the courts sided with my nephews father simply because he was the father. It doesn't matter that he has illegal weapons and is selling drugs. All that matters is that he added a little sperm to the situation and vanished. I think that is not fair. I think he has proven that he does not want the kid, except as a matter of pride, and that he can't handle the kid if he had him. It is PC bullshit.

And again, I agree with you that relationships are never equal and they are never 50/50. When my parents go out to eat my mom will count up the bill to the penny and split it with my step-dad. Literally to the penny. I can't imagine a relationship being so controlled. But on the other hand, I do think that it is a gesture of caring if you are willing to take on some of the responsibility. It bothers me that you think that it is ok for women to continue doing something they are unhappy doing just because it is tradition. But then you say that you would go for the vasectomy, and I think that is just as good as taking the man pill. I think that most men blanch at the word vasectomy, which is why I have been assuming that men would rather take the pill if they had to do anything. I don't think that we disagree as much as we appear to.

Lastly, it really doesn't matter how I behave in real life because all I am to you is what you read on the screen, but I can tell you that you would be extremely surprised. But to the point, I wasn't trying to put down your manhood, I was honestly asking the question - is that why you do not want the pill. And the reason I ask is because of the post Rohan made touching on the fact that it threatens men. I wanted to know if this was true. The last thing that I ever want to do is to control someone elses opinions. Clashing opinions is exactly the reason that I come here, and exactly the reason that I stop and make sure to read your posts. I like that we don't agree. I like that you will defend yourself to the end. It is becoming rare around here. I want you to tell me I am wrong and why, but then I am going to do the same for you. It isn't control or cracking the whip. I know that my aggressive opinionated posts come across as angry, 'sexual terrorist' posts, and if I cared enough I would change it, but that honestly isn't my intention. I just want some passion. There is nothing that I hate more than wishy-washy, undecided pandering. Pick a side and defend it, even if you come across as, well, a total bitch.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]I agree with you Brock. Who are we to decide that a parent is good or worthy. In fact, last time I checked, there are very few honestly good parents. It is all trial and error. I guess that my main problem is the fact that the courts sided with my nephews father simply because he was the father. It doesn't matter that he has illegal weapons and is selling drugs. All that matters is that he added a little sperm to the situation and vanished. I think that is not fair. I think he has proven that he does not want the kid, except as a matter of pride, and that he can't handle the kid if he had him. It is PC bullshit.

And again, I agree with you that relationships are never equal and they are never 50/50. When my parents go out to eat my mom will count up the bill to the penny and split it with my step-dad. Literally to the penny. I can't imagine a relationship being so controlled. But on the other hand, I do think that it is a gesture of caring if you are willing to take on some of the responsibility. It bothers me that you think that it is ok for women to continue doing something they are unhappy doing just because it is tradition. But then you say that you would go for the vasectomy, and I think that is just as good as taking the man pill. I think that most men blanch at the word vasectomy, which is why I have been assuming that men would rather take the pill if they had to do anything. I don't think that we disagree as much as we appear to.

Lastly, it really doesn't matter how I behave in real life because all I am to you is what you read on the screen, but I can tell you that you would be extremely surprised. But to the point, I wasn't trying to put down your manhood, I was honestly asking the question - is that why you do not want the pill. And the reason I ask is because of the post Rohan made touching on the fact that it threatens men. I wanted to know if this was true. The last thing that I ever want to do is to control someone elses opinions. Clashing opinions is exactly the reason that I come here, and exactly the reason that I stop and make sure to read your posts. I like that we don't agree. I like that you will defend yourself to the end. It is becoming rare around here. I want you to tell me I am wrong and why, but then I am going to do the same for you. It isn't control or cracking the whip. I know that my aggressive opinionated posts come across as angry, 'sexual terrorist' posts, and if I cared enough I would change it, but that honestly isn't my intention. I just want some passion. There is nothing that I hate more than wishy-washy, undecided pandering. Pick a side and defend it, even if you come across as, well, a total bitch. [/B][/QUOTE]

Christ... with all this feel-good warm-fuzzy shit going around, I'm beginning to understand how the other half live. I've insulted, I've digressed, I've said shit and more shit, I've done everything in my power to be banned and piss people off, and here I am, met with the ultimate "revenge"... ugh... niceness. What a frickin' day. Prepare for the worst and be beckoned to the best. Here I was getting all suicidal and out-of-whack and disproportionately uncomfortable with my own disillusionment, and whammo, presto, magnifique! Jamais Vu has struck again! The emancipation Brocklamation has freed my inner wage-slave once more! Jesus... you and trypdwyre really know how to make me feel like crap... to think I actually had some good good hate-sex this weekend in part due to my mental proliferation of you and all your thoughts embody to me and my ephemereal self. I mean it. More and more I have no life. More and more I realize that everything I do revolves around this place. I swore I'd never sink to such a level, but I'm addicted as such. I actually, gasp, think of alene as a friggin' person, with, goddamn feelings and a motherfucking heart! What is to become of me?!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brock Landers [/i]
[B]Christ... with all this feel-good warm-fuzzy shit going around, I'm beginning to understand how the other half live. I've insulted, I've digressed, I've said shit and more shit, I've done everything in my power to be banned and piss people off, and here I am, met with the ultimate "revenge"... ugh... niceness. What a frickin' day. Prepare for the worst and be beckoned to the best. Here I was getting all suicidal and out-of-whack and disproportionately uncomfortable with my own disillusionment, and whammo, presto, magnifique! Jamais Vu has struck again! The emancipation Brocklamation has freed my inner wage-slave once more! Jesus... you and trypdwyre really know how to make me feel like crap... to think I actually had some good good hate-sex this weekend in part due to my mental proliferation of you and all your thoughts embody to me and my ephemereal self. I mean it. More and more I have no life. More and more I realize that everything I do revolves around this place. I swore I'd never sink to such a level, but I'm addicted as such. I actually, gasp, think of alene as a friggin' person, with, goddamn feelings and a motherfucking heart! What is to become of me?! [/B][/QUOTE]

Sometimes I almost refer to myself as Alene in life. But mostly I just say that because I wanted to quote you so that I can read this post again and again. In case you decide to delete it.

The male pill may be a good idea, but the maximization of profits sought out by large drug companies, forced upon them by capitalistic ideals, precludes any real development of this form of contraception... simply put, the monetary risks of the male birth control pill outweigh the benefits...

Why would the large drug companies research a male contraceptive when they can make more profit from Viagra? This attitude not only reflects the economic priorities of drug companies, but social priorities as well... you see, research and funding is put into contraceptive methods for women and sexual rejuvenation for men... which makes the social message clear... women take care of birth control and men take care of sexual performance...

I didn't make the rules. It's like trypdwyre says, "it seems everyone wants to be different". He's right. I am not a unique snowflake, so why should I take a unique snowflake pill?