Race, Multiculturalism and You

This is the second time this forum has made me really happy to live in Canada.

[QUOTE=Adelheid]This is the second time this forum has made me really happy to live in Canada.[/QUOTE]

And what does this have to do with the topic of the thread?

Rkdaley, please stop talking out of your ass.

The fucked up version of multiculturalism you’re preaching is nothing more than reactionary politics at its very worst. The fact of the matter is that cultures evolve. The whole concept of a black culture, Asian culture, or any other racial culture is horribly dated. People, at least sane people, define themselves by there experiences and beliefs, not by what there ancestors experienced and believed. To lump all black people as belonging to a “black culture” or all Hispanics belonging to a “Hispanic culture” is foolish. A Hopi Indian living in a reservation is going to have a different cultural experience than one living in a suburban environment. Should we point our finger at a black teenager for wanting to buy Polo instead of FUBU? Should we tell a Puerto Rican that he cant start a pizza restaurant because pizza is Italian ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_Juli%C3%A1)?[/url] Speaking of food, a lot of my favorite foods are a result of a healthy dose of melting pot mentality. Hawaiian pizza and California sushi come to mind at the moment.

And for the flip side, I’m sure there are plenty of Kurds and Sunnis that would love to espouse the value of multiculturalism, after they stop killing each other

The NAACP does not function because there are less black people than white people. The NAACP functions because there are very real socioeconomic issues facing some black people. But the organization is not a very good one, as your NAAWP would not be a very good one because some assholes in that organization have the same ideas about multiculturalism that you do.

And for Christ sakes, if your going to make a big deal about calling black people brown, have the common courtesy to call yourself pink.

Finally, I dare you to add the Turner Diaries to the book club forum.

Can I live in Canada too? Christ.

I have talked to exactly five black people in my entire life.

There is an interesting paradox here.

You can argue for various different races not breeding with each other but you'll most likely get accussed of being a racist because you'll be seen as saying that people of other races aren't good enough to marry people from yours. Even if you're just arguing that the different races are different, then people are going to think that you're saying that some are better than others.

If you argue that everyone should breed with each other, so that eventually everyone become mixed race, then all the mixed races breed with each other so that eventually everyone because a vaguely uniform mix of races then you could also be seen as racist. You could be seen as saying that you want to wipe out all races and that you can't tolerate people of different race, so you're trying to breed out the differences.

The same type of argument could be put forward using 'culture' rather than race. If you're against mixed marrages then you are racist, if you're for mixed marrages then you are intolerant or insensitive to other peoples cultures.

Overall I agree with what has been said before in this thread. You should be shaped by you're experiences and believes, rather than those of hundreds of thousands of your ancestors who lived years ago, possibly in a completely different place.

'Culture' is a totally devisive and trouble-making way of maintaining an identity, that leads naturally to racism, I think gradually abolishing the heriditary view of culture would be for the best. People might say that it's a shame to loose all that interesting artwork or music or food, but if something in a culture has true beauty and value then it shouldn't really need such drastic measures as a prevention of mixed marrages to maintain it, it should be maintained by it's own virtue.

In the interests of not repeating myself, here's a [URL=http://chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=20489]link to a post that covered most of my thoughts on this already[/URL].

Summary: Being proud of your race is like being proud of not going bald. Like you had a choice?

I'm not saying that heritage and history are unimportant - they can help us understand ourselves in certain ways. They just shouldn't be a source of pride. Nor should they be a source of shame.

Example for RK: You've got lots of tattoos. White skin seems to have more options as far as what will look good on it. Nothing wrong with being grateful for having white skin. Or keeping your hair. But pride? Come on dude...

Oh, and by the way, you don’t have to worry about people becoming homogenious and all the same. People don’t act different because there Korean or german, they act different because they have personalities. And some people act differently because of disparitie in intelligence, which account for this thread

I want to go to Canada now...

Why don't some of you come up with a response as to why you disagree with this, its suppose to be a discussion not "I want to leave from reading one person's opinion on something." Honestly sometimes crap like this just gets on my nerves.

If you're going to be pointless about it then make something funny of it or attempt to be funny like me and fail miserably. Like right now, If i'm going to buy breakfast tacos from a beaner I want an authentic beaner to be making it not some british person that can't even say words like "burrito" and "quesadillas" without making me wince in abdominal pains right after I hear them repeat my order to me.

So what i'm saying is, Frank my mexican cult beaner, make me some god damn authenic mex plates when your ass gets down here!!!

I don't want to go to Canada just over this...I just like Canada

I wouldn't that Adelheid person is there.

[QUOTE=UbikRex]Why don't some of you come up with a response as to why you disagree with this, its suppose to be a discussion not "I want to leave from reading one person's opinion on something." Honestly sometimes crap like this just gets on my nerves.

If you're going to be pointless about it then make something funny of it or attempt to be funny like me and fail miserably. Like right now, If i'm going to buy breakfast tacos from a beaner I want an authentic beaner to be making it not some british person that can't even say words like "burrito" and "quesadillas" without making me wince in abdominal pains right after I hear them repeat my order to me.

So what i'm saying is, Frank my mexican cult beaner, make me some god damn authenic mex plates when your ass gets down here!!![/QUOTE]

are you talking to RK and me, or the people who want to go to canada?

i thought the i wanna go to canada post were a joke. i laughed

What? Canada sucks.

(...did I just quote Peter Griffin? )

This post brings up some good points. Is it racist to be proud of the dead members of your family? Or is it racist not to care about them? I could care less about my ancestors. When people ask me what my race is, I say American. if you want to know what race my ancestors were, they were eastern european. I can't get more specific, because 1, some of the countries no longer exist, and 2, I never cared enough to find out. For the record, I'm not particularly proud of being American. I admit, Americans have done some pretty kick ass things, like the internet, and fight club. But we also probably have more cannibals than most developed countries, so that's something that kinda shames me. I mean, we were swept away by the macarena. "Pride" is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of America. I think more, this is what I'm used to, I probably wouldn't do too well somewhere significantly different. When it comes to my feelings about others, yeah, I judge based on appearances. I'm white, and if I see a black dude walking up to me, wearing a doo-rag, a baseball cap on backwards, his pants hanging about 6 inches below his ass, I think, I probably don't want to talk to this guy. Same if I see a white dude wearing leather, with a beard and hair made entirely of dreadlocks, and tattoos inching out of his collars. After I talk to them, I might change my mind. That's one thing I'm very good at, changing my mind. But I judge based on appearances not because I'm racist, just because that's all the information I have when I first see someone. I think people pay far more attention to race than is warranted. Ultimately, it comes down to how you treat the people you know. You can be forgiven for being afraid of people with red hair if you've been robbed by one (I will never forgive Ron Howard for the Da Vinci Code). But if you feel this after you've gotten to know a red headed person, who was in no way related to that 2 hour snooze fest, well, maybe you should consider xanax.

“The fucked up version of multiculturalism you’re preaching is nothing more than reactionary politics at its very worst” – a quote from Westontinople who is pleading – “please, for everyones sake

Rkdaley, please stop talking out of your ass.” And later added this “And some people act differently because of disparitie [sic] in intelligence, which account [sic] for this thread” – which I am taking to be in reference to me, the thread starter.

That’s real nice talk there….

I believe in my view on culture and the preservation of it. And I’m not afraid to speak about it. Which causes some people to attack me and makes many people uncomfortable.

“The whole concept of a black culture, Asian culture, or any other racial culture is horribly dated.” - Westontinople

Why?

Culture is about history. It’s also about community and feeling connected to people with a similar history.

Let me clarify a little bit. I don’t care if people of two races marry and have babies. Love who ever the fuck you want. I don’t really care. There is evolution and one day this whole planet will be interbred. This seems to be a natural progression. I get it. I believe it. But it ain’t here yet.

I’m thinking more of the way every American city is becoming the same. Cultural diversity isn’t really celebrated. It’s frowned upon. Look at all the national chain stores. In just about every city they put smaller businesses out of business. This makes for empty storefronts and the loss of local jobs. One effect of this is that it causes business people to move which breaks up neighborhoods and lowers the tax base as well as community involvement.

I think that having ethnically and racial diverse neighborhoods is a good thing. Everyone in America has basically the same values and morals so it’s not like people would be radically different or anything. People would be able to visit and experience other cultures. Children would have a more personalized view of their cultural history and then maybe they would have more respect for other cultures. I’m not suggesting segregation in our cities. I’m suggesting that being the same is not a good thing. Losing the history of a culture is a sad thing.

Are you guys (people that have posted in this thread) saying that Chinatown in San Francisco is bad? When all the illegal immigrants get amnesty are they to throw their Latino heritage away?

Why not hold on to your heritage?
Because you didn’t do it yourself? You were just born that way so no need to care about it?

America is supposed to be a diverse nation filled with many cultures under the American umbrella. That is going away.

“'Culture' is a totally devisive and trouble-making way of maintaining an identity, that leads naturally to racism, I think gradually abolishing the heriditary view of culture would be for the best. People might say that it's a shame to loose all that interesting artwork or music or food, but if something in a culture has true beauty and value then it shouldn't really need such drastic measures…” – mikandrewz

I think this will happen over time.

Don't you like Chinese neighborhoods? Don't you like Mexican neighborhoods? Don't you think it's cool that someone living right down the road is so different from you? I do. I like that San Francisco and LA are two different worlds. I like things to be diverse. I like people to be diverse.

[QUOTE=rkdaley]I think that having ethnically and racial diverse neighborhoods is a good thing. Everyone in America has basically the same values and morals so it’s not like people would be radically different or anything. People would be able to visit and experience other cultures. Children would have a more personalized view of their cultural history and then maybe they would have more respect for other cultures. I’m not suggesting segregation in our cities. I’m suggesting that being the same is not a good thing. Losing the history of a culture is a sad thing.

Are you guys (people that have posted in this thread) saying that Chinatown in San Francisco is bad? When all the illegal immigrants get amnesty are they to throw their Latino heritage away?

Why not hold on to your heritage?
Because you didn’t do it yourself? You were just born that way so no need to care about it?

[some deletions]

Don't you like Chinese neighborhoods? Don't you like Mexican neighborhoods? Don't you think it's cool that someone living right down the road is so different from you? I do. I like that San Francisco and LA are two different worlds. I like things to be diverse. I like people to be diverse.[/QUOTE]
I fail to see the difference between conforming to chain stores and conforming to your parents. It's still conformity. Exploring your history can tell you some things about your genetics and your parents and some of the people you love (or hate - hey, it's family).

And if, while exploring that history, you find things to do or wear or eat that make you happy, then go with it. You may be naturally predisposed to "it", so there's value in "it". But to do something solely because your anscestors did it and not because it enriches your life in some meaningful way is pretty stupid and will just make you miserable, possibly resentful, possibly judgmental of the people who are doing things differently. You may also exclude others from exploring your culture if they don't share your 'history'.

The problem with how I'm hearing your view of "Diversity" is that your version of "Diversity" is drawn along racial lines, and not along the lines of what people choose to do. Even in an isolated island culture, people behave differently and have different things that make them happy - their opportunities are limited by geography and climate, not racism. Real diversity exists when people are allowed to choose their path in life, not when they have it chosen for them.

jase is right. I live about 30 minutes from Gallaudet University, the only liberal arts college for the Deaf. naturaly it is an epicenter of the Deaf community. eighteen years ago they pretty much put the ideas of the modern disability rights movement to the forefront with the Deaf President Now protest, which as a result hepled me out when i was diagnossed with learning dissabilities at a time when mot people knew nothing about LD. recently, the community has started to move out as the employment opportunities for the deaf and hearign impaired have increased.

so am i greatly apreciative of the contributions of the Deaf community? Hell yes.
am i upset that deaf people dont live as close any more? well there are educational issues related to residential school, but as for the adults, Hell no.

Here's an interesting tidbit:

The deaf are really considered a culture all their own. (I took sign language in college, I learned all this stuff then.) They have their own events, clubs and so on.

Anyway, they are the only people group whose interpreters are never from their own culture. You can't be a sign language interpreter if ya can't hear, now can you?

I always thought that was interesting point.

Not that it really relates to race issues... but whatever, this thread is getting tired.

thats not true. alot of deaf people are taught to speak and read lips. also, not all people are born deaf, like I King Jordan, who became the president of the university after the protest.

on the other hand, Deaf culture is a complicated subject. some Deaf people consider only people that were born deaf and sign to be part of the culture, others beleive you had to have gone to a residential school for the deaf or hearing impared. others insist that anyone deeply immersed into Deaf life, regardless of how much they can hear, is part of the culture.

if your interested in the Deaf, (Deaf is capitalized when refering to deaf people as a cultural, linguistic, social group) i have a bunch of cool books in my house (which of course i'm not in right now becasue i'm still in military school). probably the best one is [I]Oliver Sacks Seing Voices: A Journey into the Land of the Deaf[/I] for that matter, any oliver sacks book i worth reading

really off topic, but its omething i'm passionate about (i did an oral history of the Deaf President Now protest)

Well, that's just what I learnt in klass... I spose I'm not athoratee on the subjeck.

well its not completely false. it just depends on who you ask.

Good point.

So... you like tacos?

god, it's been too long. i could so go for tacos right now, except that i'm going to a senior barbecue in 15 minutes

[QUOTE=rkdaley]And what does this have to do with the topic of the thread?[/QUOTE]

We have the kind of multiculturalism that you support. We're not a "melting pot" or what have you.

[QUOTE=UbikRex]I wouldn't that Adelheid person is there.[/QUOTE]

What does THIS have to do with the topic of this thread? I think UbikRex is annoying and unnecissarily rude.

I have a question for fellow Canadians that's more or less in-line with the thread topic: is it just me, or are there very few black people here, and if it's not just me, why is this??

[QUOTE=Adelheid]What does THIS have to do with the topic of this thread? I think UbikRex is annoying and unnecissarily rude.

I have a question for fellow Canadians that's more or less in-line with the thread topic: is it just me, or are there very few black people here, and if it's not just me, why is this??[/QUOTE]

They don't survive well in cold weather.

Is it multi-culturalism if you think this Asian/Black interracial bank teller is good enough to eat??

[QUOTE=Adelheid]We have the kind of multiculturalism that you support. We're not a "melting pot" or what have you.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I see... Well how is that workin' out for ya?

I think, and I may be wrong, but aren't most countries other than America not a melting pot, but a mixture of races and cultures?

[QUOTE=rkdaley]Oh, I see... Well how is that workin' out for ya?

I think, and I may be wrong, but aren't most countries other than America not a melting pot, but a mixture of races and cultures?[/QUOTE]

You're missing my point. This chick is hot. Way hot. I'd eat her poop.

Is that multicultural of me, or just lecherous?

well, obviously it's a little of both. You seem to be seeking a mulitcultural lecherous sexual experience. By partaking in the festivities with a woman of mixed heritage you are essentially knockin' down two birds with one bone.

Advice section - don't eat poop. you'll spend the next fourteen hours tryin' to get the taste out of your mouth and it'll overpower the taste of her blacasian pussy. You want to be able to taste it right?

EDIT:"I think UbikRex is annoying and unnecissarily rude." - Adelheid

Yep - AND he's not funny a whole lotta the time, but when he is funny....oh man ...he is funny. Ya just gotta wade through the crap to get to the good stuff. (Rod, this has nothing to do with you wanting to eat poop, this is different kind of crap to wade through)

Good advice. About the poop eating. Don't eat poop is part of my philosophy as well.

Okay, I'll try to keep her poop out of my mouth if I get the courage to ask for a phone number.

I guess I distinguish culture from ethnicity. I'm an equal opportunity letch.

[QUOTE=jase]I fail to see the difference between conforming to chain stores and conforming to your parents. It's still conformity. Exploring your history can tell you some things about your genetics and your parents and some of the people you love (or hate - hey, it's family).

And if, while exploring that history, you find things to do or wear or eat that make you happy, then go with it. You may be naturally predisposed to "it", so there's value in "it". But to do something solely because your anscestors did it and not because it enriches your life in some meaningful way is pretty stupid and will just make you miserable, possibly resentful, possibly judgmental of the people who are doing things differently. You may also exclude others from exploring your culture if they don't share your 'history'.

The problem with how I'm hearing your view of "Diversity" is that your version of "Diversity" [B]is drawn along racial lines[/B], and not along the lines of what people choose to do. Even in an isolated island culture, people behave differently and have different things that make them happy - their opportunities are limited by geography and climate, not racism. Real diversity exists when people are allowed to choose their path in life, not when they have it chosen for them.[/QUOTE]

I've written up a few responses and they all lead me to the same position. I can't find a way to defend racism. It's choosing to draw the lines at one certain point in the evolution of the human race. Why not draw the line - when the white man came to America? Send back the europeans in cargo ships! I mean what's the difference? There is none. Might as well go back to before the continents separated. When all life was on one land mass. Bring back the Unicontinental way of life!

I tried to bring this up and be as over the top as I could without sounding completely over the top.

but this line -

“I want the races and cultures of the world to remain separate and individual.” – Me in the first post of this thread –

This is just silly....

For one thing, it’s physically impossible for anything like that to happen, so that statement is bullshit. Seconal, common sense alone negates it.

I am all for homelands. Nationalism. I like the power closer to home. United nations, alliances, the world banks and all that global power grab shit takes the decision making farther away from the local community and me.

I do like ethinic neighborhoods and a diversity in the way girls look.

i dont agree on yoru stance on nationalism (i'm a pro-globalization, pro-capitalism internationalist), but rkdaley, your off my shit list. congradulations

[QUOTE=Westontinople]i dont agree on yoru stance on nationalism (i'm a pro-globalization, pro-capitalism internationalist), but rkdaley, your off my shit list. congradulations[/QUOTE]

Oh please...put me back on.

cool. your my favorite sparing partner here.

I don't need any spare partners. You'll never succeed sparring with me or anyone else here until you [I]learn how to spell correctly[/I].

It's easy to do. Just keep Word or your preferred text editing software with spellcheck feature open and cut and paste your post in there and look for the red and green underlined words. Click on 'em, it’s fun!

Globalization is the ultimate fuck you to a "for the people, by the people" type government. It puts decisions that affect me too far out of reach. It's also soooo "all about the money" and not "about the people."

I am a people. I want everything to be about me.

[QUOTE=rkdaley]I don't need any spare partners. You'll never succeed sparring with me or anyone else here until you [I]learn how to spell correctly[/I].

It's easy to do. Just keep Word or your preferred text editing software with spellcheck feature open and cut and paste your post in there and look for the red and green underlined words. Click on 'em, it’s fun!

Globalization is the ultimate fuck you to a "for the people, by the people" type government. It puts decisions that affect me too far out of reach. It's also soooo "all about the money" and not "about the people."

I am a people. I want everything to be about me.[/QUOTE]

Criticising spelling is the last resort of the intellectually beleaguered.

And I agree with Globalisation for the reasons you just gave, I think people like you should be kept as far away as possible from any decision making processes as possible.

[QUOTE=mikandrewz]Criticising spelling is the last resort of the intellectually beleaguered.
[/QUOTE]

Hippocrit...!

Not really, I'd just like to thank you for inadvertantly telling me the correct spelling of "beleaguered".

THIS IS A QUESTION FOR WESTONTIwhatever: what exactly is a "pro-globalization, pro-capitalism internationalist"?

Wait, actually, you only need to define the two words sandwhiching "pro-capitalism", and then tell me [I]why[/I] you take this "pro-globalization, pro-capitalism internationalist" stance, please.

first, ITS MY BIRTHDAY. YAY!!!!!

second, i'm definately to lazy to spellcheck. sorry. not gonna happen.

a sparing partner is someone you spar with, like in fencing.

capitalism is putting the power to choose back in the peoples hands, rather than some government official who's never met me but somehow claims to know how to spend my money better than i do.

internationalism is the beleif that no one is justified in claiming that they are somehow better or more important than another because they come from a particular country, and the beleif that no country deserves special treatment over another.

globalization is the fusion of these two ideas. if a buisness from japan wants enter the american market, it has every right to. whats more, both i, as an american consumer, and the japanese buisness benefit. plus, for countries that are poor, globalization can be a saving grace.

and just look how its saving the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China)

oh, and this is my last post of the day. got to celebrate :friday: (and work on my script, since the deadlines aproaching):grumble:

I still haven't figured out the bi-racial bank teller thing. She's so fine, I go into the lobby when I'm there in hopes of checking her out, instead of using the more convenient drive-through.

Way, way, too young for me, but it's a fun fantasy.