Police Officers in Schools with WEAPONS
I'm a senior in this school in CT, right dead in the center of the most corrupted strip of land on the planet. But that's beside the point, for now. What I'm here to bitch about is that we have a cop in our fucking school. No, wait, I'm not complaining about the cop.. he's one of those "school resource officers" (i.e. the pigs who sit around in a desk ALL day, then at lunch he walks around, ignoring the gambling, drinking, and drugs just to bitch at the kids who say "Fuck you Pig!"). Instead, I'm here to complain about the loaded semi-automatic pistol he carries at his hip.
When I asked him why he needs to carry that into a public school he replied, "I'm a cop." I nodded and pressed on, pointing out the fact that theoretically, that gun is there to shoot a student. His reply was, "Yes, that's right, if I needed to I'd shoot a kid right in the head." I left it at that and a few days later approached one the administrators, commenting on the gun and how it made me and other students I had talked to uncomfortable. The administrator said he agreed with us and even agreed with my suggestion that perhaps non-lethal weapons would be a more appropriate presence in a public school. Of course, I was given the whole "yeah man, look it up and do something about it!" speech.. so that's what I'm doing.
First, I would like to know what everyone here thinks of this loaded weapon at the ready in a school. Second, I was wondering if anyone has some ideas for what sort of arguements I could research on the topic and further action I might take.
Feel free to slander, bitch piss and moan right along with those who agree wtih me here. Not to mention, please ask questions--its the best way for me to adjust my arguement!
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
snuffy pretty well encompases the arguments you're going to need to go up against.
you said something in your initial post which i think is a incredibly good point. something you should expand upon "perhaps non-lethal weapons would be a more appropriate presence in a public school". that is a very good point. you'll definately want to try to present that idea as a way of making the school safer. of course you'll have to find out what specific non-lethal weapons you have in mind, and keep in mind there aren't many out there already available other than the truncheon.
one thing you may want to mention is, with that cop there, that means at any given time there will always be a firearm in the building. police aren't all powerful either, so that always leaves the possibility of that firearm being used by the wrong person. i'll see what i can dig up here in a bit.
dont give him a reason to shoot you
Who says I thought he was gonna shoot me? I'm just taking the stance that its somewhat insane to have a loaded weapon in school. "I wouldn't shoot to hurt, I'd shoot to kill." fuck that pig.
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
dont give him a reason to shoot you
that's nice man.. gotta better response? I did hear you the first fucking time.
on top of that.. i do occasionally like to think in the shoes of other people.. lets say a potential loon who fucks up once, just once in his life and brings a weapon to school, he shows it to a friend and mr pig happens to see it.. then what, he shoots the fucking kid, right in the head. Dead, blam, no more.. all that potential lost, for one fucking mistake and a goddamned trigger happy cop.
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
[QUOTE=RunAmok]"I wouldn't shoot to hurt, I'd shoot to kill." fuck that pig.[/QUOTE]
You never [b]ever[/b] shoot someone to injure them. It makes them more dangerous and they tend to sue.
It sucks that you have to have a cop in your school. Then again, my highschool could have used a few. Your cop _does_ have nonlethal resources available to him, including but not limited to mace/pepper spray, a baton, and his own hands.
I used to feel exactly the way you do, but belive me, should you ever actually _need_ him, you'll be giving him hugs and sending him Channukah cards for life. Most cops aren't in fact Fucking Pigs, but people doing a very difficult job that they sincerely believe in (you already know this). Many of them do come across as assholish - this is unfortunate - but a) it's part of the job, and 
it's a defence mechanism; try walking around for a while in a poor neighborhood other than that usually reserved for your skin color dressed like an asshole wearing a target (i.e., if you're white, hang out in a black ghetto. Try to look and act like a redneck for maximum abuse.) It won't take long before you turn into a real prick. A cop is a target. That will have a bit of an effect on your demeanor.
So, yeah, talk to this guy when you get a chance. Don't be a prick, just talk to him about everyday shit. You'll feel better. He'll feel better. Flowers will bloom and ponies will run o'er the hills of green.
Damn. I've turned into such a hippy.
[QUOTE=RunAmok]all that potential lost, for one fucking mistake and a goddamned trigger happy cop.[/QUOTE]
One fucking mistake will kill you anytime and anyplace, with or without a cop, in or out of school. The idea is not to be a fuckup. This is Darwin at work.
i said it twice and you still dont get it
the last thing the cop wants to do is shoot up a school, ok?
so dont give him a reason to and he wont
yeah maybe it makes you shit your pants a lil that hes carrying a gun but if you dont give him a reason to use it on you then whats the big deal?
id rather not have to have him there but you are safer
if some asshole brings a gun to school, for any reason, id kick his ass
thats more dangerous than a cop carrying one
youre worried about a cop carrying a gun because if one of your buddies is carrying a gun then he might get shot???
maybe you should worry about your buddy with the gun before you start worrying about some guy whos just doing his job
the line he gave you sounds rehearsed and prepared
he was probably told to tell you that
if it bothers you that much
then wear diapers
and dont give him a reason to shoot you
Alright man, good points there and everything.. but just a few things--this cop IS a pig, not just "pig" as in "cop" but "pig" as in complete densemotherfuckingassole pig.
Here's my line of sight: This cop has abundant non-lethal resources behind him, if he were A) inclined to use them or FORCED to use them and importantly C) Allowed such resources. I mean, honestly, there is a such thing as a rubber-bullet gun, or those fucking beanbag guns.. those things fucking work man. U ever seen Knoxville take a beanbag from a shotgun? Man, he was even wearing a damned flak jacket and it knocked the wind outta him.
I guess I'm just not a big fan of guns altogether, and I understand the logic behind the cop having a gun--I simply don't agree with it. I believe there are better ways to go about dealing with even the most nightmarish situations (i.e. school shootings, bombings, ect.)
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
if i a kid brings a gun to school and plans to use it against people, and you have a cop with some pepper spray or rubber bullets, than you have one dead cop and some dead kids.
So, when you write your letter, come up with a defnse against that. It would serve you to have it better argument than "1-8-7 on a motherfuckin cop." because that's not working.
I understand that you're freaked about anyone having a gun in your school; it IS freakish - cop or not.
Now, fyi, beanbag guns are great if your target is less than 10 feet away and standing still (or moving steadily towards you). They don't fire very quickly, iirc, so you better disable the kid with the knife to the throat of another kid with that first shot... Beanbag guns are for crowd/riot control - fire into a mass of angry bodies, someone yells 'ouch' and falls, tangling the legs of other bodies which also fall, etc. They're of limited use.
Rubber bullets are not accurate at a distance, and too often lethal. They are meant to be used the same as beanbags, only sprayed at the legs.
I'm going from memory of things I've read here - I'm no expert on non-lethal weaponry or anything.
run, i still think you raise a valid point, i just think it's a hard one to justify to paranoid and/or fascist administrators.
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]I used to feel exactly the way you do, but belive me, should you ever actually _need_ him, you'll be giving him hugs and sending him Channukah cards for life.[/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking. Like when everyone would get checked before going in a concert...or on a freaking plane..I can't believe people are complaining about the inspections on planes (other than being humiliated - having to take off your clothes and get searched before getting on a plane is a little ridiculous) But I WANT them to put everyone through a metal detector and check anything that's suspicious or whatever. I don't want to be on the plane where the security guys were too afraid to offend people by checking them and ends up letting something bad on.
If some crazy stupid kid came in my school trying to shoot everyone I would MUCH rather have a cop who could do something about it than wait for other cops to get there. It's not like cops are complete idiots and will decide to go around the school themselves shooting everyone who gets a note out of their pocket.
Plus...aren't cops trained to like shoot you in the leg - not "shoot the kid in the head" or something so they won't kill you? And they keep their finger straight instead of over the trigger so they don't accidentally pull it? And really only shoot after saying multiple times to put the gun down?
A kid who brings a gun to school and shows it to someone wouldn't be shot unless he was too stupid to put it down, tried to shoot someone, or aimed it at the cop. It's a fun little idea to think that all cops are evil, but I know a few of them, and they're pretty nice. Mostly they're trying to help you...unless you're the one they're after. (and then you can argue that they're still trying to help you).
Ever think his attitude is on purpose? Where I went to college our security guards were often called "rent-a-cops" didn't carry guns. Most were overweight and rode on golf carts everywhere. In my Humor class we even made up a top ten list for their job requirements.
I'm sorry, but I would have felt safer with a cop who had a gun (which can also intimidate someone even if it isn't used...).
For the kid who's going to bring a gun to school to shoot everyone. He either 1. knows the cop doesn't have a gun and therefore he can do whatever he wants because he *does* 2. knows the cop has a gun but doesn't like to use it or 3. knows the cop has a gun and would shoot a kid in the head if he had to.
Whatever he really thinks doesn't matter. It's possible he's playing out a stereotype in the school so kids who would try to do something bad might think twice. Not saying this will definitely work, but you might as well try.
You may find out he's completely different if you talk to him enough so he knows you aren't that stupid kid. Maybe not what's going on, but a strong possibility.
[QUOTE=PsychoKeety]...aren't cops trained to like shoot you in the leg - not "shoot the kid in the head" or something so they won't kill you?[/QUOTE]
No. They are not. There is a very strict protocol for drawing, aiming, and firing your weapon. Police are forbidden to fire unless it is a life-threatening situation. When lives are threatened, you shoot to kill.
runamock, you had a good idea there at the beginning, but i think you're carrying your fantasy a bit too far. calling all cops "pigs" and implying that all they want to do is put a bullet in someone's head. sure there are some like that, but have you ever talked to a cop? have you ever bothered to research what it takes, what training they recieve? you imply in your conversation that having a group of trained individuals on pay by the city to protect you and keep certain things in order is a bad thing. it is not.
i agree with you on principle that having an armed police officer might not be a good idea, but i also have done a bit of research into non-lethal weapons, specifically ones that are supposed to incapacitate an individual over some range. they don't exist with good enough accuracy to make them safe, and aren't readily available to the police workforce. the fact is having an armed officer in your school is the safest option so far. check again in about 5 years, maybe then you'll have better alternatives.
and don't bother with generalizing all police officers as being a "complete densemotherfuckingassole pig". to say such is just rubbish, and ignorant.
FORCED to use them and importantly C) Allowed such resources.
lastly, no they don't have an abundant non-letal resources that would work effectively indoors. most of their non-letal resources are for outdoor crowd control. nearly all police stations do not have the sort of resources you're implying. you must understand, they also have budgets, non-letal weapons are more expensive as most of them are newer. do a bit of research on your own, call up your police non-emergency number and ask to speak with someone for a school project (best not to use the term "pig" when talking to them). and please, re-think your stance on police in general, at least make an educated opinion of them...
Listening to this thread, it sounds as though a million kids are bringing and using guns at school. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that is happening. I don't think we should be looking at kids as the enemy, and an armed officer suggests that they are. I can guarantee that if a kid ever were to open fire at school, he probably wouldn't do it around the cop. Didn't Columbine have a school officer? It seems to me like a token gesture to make people feel better, but I personally don't like the implication of having an armed officer. It says we don't trust you. It says we are running scared. It says we are at a loss. If a kid is seriously upset enough to shoot up the school, Mr. Officer isn't going to make a bit of difference.
I had a school cop where I went to school, and I must say she was amazing. She never carried a weapon, she made friends with all of the trouble kids, no doubt so that she could keep them in line better, but it worked. She gained our respect and we listened to her. A teacher would tell us to get in class and we would ignore them. Renee came along and we would all walk gladly to class, often with her along telling us stories about cop life. The attitude there was that she was a friend and that the admins weren't afraid of the students. Renee didn't see us as the enemy, she saw us as something to protect.
Because she gained our respect and kept her ear to the ground, she was able to get ahold of a kid and remove him from the school when she found out that he was bringing a gun with the intent to shoot a teacher.
I felt safe with Renee, and respected. Not like the enemy with a cop and his token lethal weapon that will probably never do any good.
Now that's a hell of a way of lookin' at it. I'm impressed, i suppose
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
[QUOTE=alene]Listening to this thread, it sounds as though a million kids are bringing and using guns at school. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that is happening. I don't think we should be looking at kids as the enemy, and an armed officer suggests that they are.[/QUOTE]
It happens a lot, but it's not everywhere at every school (even though it can happen anywhere). I don't even think other kids are the only threat. a teacher, a guy running from the cops who happens to run into a school, someone who just robbed someone down the street and runs into the next available building. A parent who doesn't have custody of the kid (although the school should know this, most of the time "I'm Jenny's dad" will get them through)
Our school was unlocked all the time. Not sure how many schools lock all their doors, or how realistic that would be. Kids bringing guns to school isn't the only threat. I just see it as a protection for kids I might have someday at that school.
The cop at your school sounds perfect. All of that comes first of course. But in case all that doesn't work - it can't work with every single kid - I think a gun is just that much more protection. It doesn't have to be flaunted or anything, like every kid in the school needs to be told that the cop has a gun and that will deter them. It's just something else, another backup, for them to use, if something else fails.
I would agree with that, but most armed cops I have come across see the kids as the enemy. They aren't worried about a parent coming along or the teachers. They are watching, and are aware of the kids. I am not so concerned about the actual gun itself, although I still think it is probable that it won't do any good anyway, but what I am concerned about is the message it sends. Is this really the message we want to send to our kids?
Yeah ive got a piggy in my school too
and yes he has a gun
in jersey theyre supposed to carry their weapons with them at like all times
especially on duty
i can see how it makes you uncomfortable
but the dudes there to protect you
thats what hes trained and paid for
a kids not going to take the weapon
a cop shoots to kill- when he shoots to wound he gets in trouble
i know i know- im gonna get shit for saying this but
shut the fuck up- hes there for your saftey and its not your job to say whether or not hes doing his
i dont really care how many administrators agree with you
cops are there for your protection
which would you prefer- gambling during lunch or a knife in your face
The whole situation is a consequence of the widespread circulation of firearms.
Why is there a cop in a school ?
Why is he armed ?
How can students find weapons and bring them to school ?
What we have now is the logic of the firearm lobby reversed.
According to them, available weapons for the general public are supposed to serve for self-protection. They also equalise the relation to the police, considered as a potential threat to the civil liberties, and the tool of the oppressive political power. So according to this logic there should be no cop in schools, and most kids should be armed to prevent trouble.
Hmn.. I like the thought of the gun being a sort of back up. Maybe keep it in a safebox or something.. or a few of them in safeboxes scattered around the school.. hehe, anyway. .
A lot of the discomfort, though, was attitude I recieved from the cop. It seemed like he really did mistrust us for the most part and would be tickled to put a hole in my head if I were to "run amok".
Well, that pretty much wraps it up for me, I'm almost out anyway--and I'm sure as fuck not sending my kids to a public school.. at least not an AMERICAN public school...
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
yes
a safebox
marvelous idea
especially since i am the only person in highschool who knows how to pick a lock and no one else in the world can
I think most high school security guards go to prison, eventually.
[QUOTE=RunAmok]Hmn.. I like the thought of the gun being a sort of back up. [/QUOTE]
That IS what they use it for. It's the last resort kind of thing. If making friends with the students doesn't work, if catching the problem before it happens doesn't work, then not being able to talk the kid out of shooting people...etc. Cops do everything they can before they shoot someone.
interesting issue, good luck on the research.
the strongest arguments against your point of view:
1. What good is a police officer without a lethal weapn, if a student with a leathal weapon comes to school?
2. The police officer is there to protect you, so why do you want him less equipped?
3. Parents want their kids to be safe in school. How does an armed police officer WEAKEN security?
4. Police officers are most likely required by law to carry firearms. So, if you really want no guns, you may have to settle for a rent-a-guard, who will have the same attitude and shitty disposition as a cop, but is less talented and less motivated to protect you.
5. THe police officers primary goal is deterrence. Not to shoot students, but to deter students from bringing and brandishin weapons in school through fear.