New Orleans Evacuated Today

I also don't understand why people are so concerned about some guy taking a TV, protect the GUN STORES and that's it. as long as people are peaceful I don't care what people are taking as long as they are orderly.

Having to police that area would and probably is a nightmare. Even with all the National Guard help, its still seems verey chaotic. This reminds me of all thse videos you see where people are shown rioting (ie after the Rodney King trial, any college championship, etc) and law enforcement is out in their riot gear. The difference is this is going to last several days, if not weeks. Keeping the peace is one thing, but having to restore humanity is another.

many of the police there have simply given up. Member of the media said they asked some police they talked to just broke down and began crying when asked how they where. that law enforment have to loot for food and water just like everyone else. They also have absolutely no communications. Its obvious that the national gaurd needed to be there Wednesday

[QUOTE=Undertow]Sure there are other races, but there's other factors too, such as whether the people still there are at or below the poverty level, meaning having a ride to get out of town, or even know people to bum a ride. Some are probably just stubborn and decided to sit it out, but others probably didn't have much choice, and had to stay.

Some probably aren't poor but still don't have a ride to get out.

Those are just some guesses.[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of people there below poverty level and there are a lot of black people below poverty level there. And a lot of people that lived there didn't have cars - the public transportation system was fairly decent, well, meaning that you could go pretty much anywhere you needed to in the city - slow, but if you had to use it, you could get where you needed to.
Also - there were 6 universities - so I'm sure that some of the students didn't stay on campus, but lived near enough to walk and that weren't required to evacuate because they did live on campus were stuck there too.
The people that they're shipping in to the Astrodome were the ones that got out before the gunshots yesterday - before the people helping backed down.
The people in the Superdome - they're the ones that didn't have anywhere else to go or anyway to get there.

[QUOTE=bigS]so they were interviewing people getting off of the busses right? and there was this dude, alvin was his name, and he was homeless like everyone else and the newsguy got his story and a viewer felt bad so he went down to the astrodome and told alvin he can stay with him and his wife. then the newsguy talks to alvin again and alvin says 'i was homeless before the hurricane so you understand where i am'. yeah, exactly where you were before the hurricane. what, did your box float away? you didn't lose SHIT, asshole.[/QUOTE]
He lost everything at [I]some point[/I]. Should he have just stayed out on the street through it?
People are just trying to help. The same thing could happen to us, you know. (I live South of Houston - if that thing had come here, I'd be in the same situation.) My kids got all freaked out last night because the sky started getting dark and they ran in from outside and started saying, "We're getting a hurricane!" It took a lot of convincing to let them know that it was just going to rain.

Bush declares that the relief effort is unacceptable, then goes down South to hug some black people.

i almost broke the TV i was watching when I saw that.

[QUOTE=snuffy]Bush declares that the relief effort is unacceptable, then goes down South to hug some black people.

i almost broke the TV i was watching when I saw that.[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised he didn't say [I]in[/I]-acceptable.

[QUOTE=wenknee]I'm surprised he didn't say [I]in[/I]-acceptable.[/QUOTE]

Although, Bush is a master at clearing debris. He's spent months at his ranch in Texas doing just that. Maybe he CAN lend a hand.

[QUOTE=snuffy]Although, Bush is a master at clearing debris. He's spent months at his ranch in Texas doing just that. Maybe he CAN lend a hand.[/QUOTE]
In a suit, no less...I'm sure that's just what he's prepared to do, too.
And I'm sure that they'll fly him right ... over ... the Superdome so he can see those thousands of people sitting out there in the sun waiting for something to eat and drink.

[QUOTE=snuffy]Although, Bush is a master at clearing debris. He's spent months at his ranch in Texas doing just that. Maybe he CAN lend a hand.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. We're kicking ass in the war on terror and we rocked it with getting things back to normal from last year's hurricane onslaught.

one of the lessons from this ordeal, which is FAR from over, is that everything becomes a politcal issue, even natural disasters.

Yes, Bush didn't cause Hurricane Katrina, but his response is so inept and, as he put it, "unacceptable," that he may as well have.

[QUOTE=snuffy]one of the lessons from this ordeal, which is FAR from over, is that everything becomes a politcal issue, even natural disasters.

Yes, Bush didn't cause Hurricane Katrina, but his response is so inept and, as he put it, "unacceptable," that he may as well have.[/QUOTE]

I agree. The information's been out for years regarding the levees. Same with the risk of a pending attack in New York City, and both incidents were ignored by our fearless leader.

And to think Clinton was awaiting impeachment for a blow job.

Anxious Phoniex i admire your push to get there.

[QUOTE]Four days after the hurricane struck, the scale of the casualties is still not known.

However one senator fro Louisiana, David Vitter, has predicted the death toll could climb above 10,000 in Louisiana alone.

Senator Vitter said he did not base his estimate on any official toll.

The head of the New Orleans emergency operations has described the relief effort as a national disgrace.

And Mayor Ray Nagin has angrily denounced the level of outside help the city has received. "People are dying here," he said.

Meanwhile airlines have begun providing relief flights, bringing in supplies and flying out with people from New Orleans' Louis Armstrong International Airport at a rate of four an hour from midday on Friday.

Most of the flights will take refugees to Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, which is providing emergency shelter for 75,000 survivors, in stadiums in Houston, Dallas and San Antonio.

[COLOR=red]'Shoot to kill' [/COLOR]

A large cloud of acrid, black smoke is drifting over New Orleans following a series of huge blasts on Friday along the Mississippi riverfront, apparently at a chemical plant.

The incident in the already crippled city came after Louisiana's governor said 300 "battle-tested" National Guardsmen were being sent to quell the unrest.

The city of New Orleans will never be the same again

Mayor Ray Nagin

Questions grow over chaos

"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said.

Washington pledged a further 4,200 guardsmen in coming days, and said that 3,000 army soldiers may also be sent to the city where violence has disrupted relief efforts.

The deployment came as thousands were finally taken from the Louisiana Superdome, where up to 20,000 have been corralled amid heat and squalor since Katrina struck.

The BBC's Matt Frei, in New Orleans, says conditions in the city's convention centre, where up to 20,000 more are stranded, are the most wretched he has seen anywhere, including crises in the Third World.

"You've got an entire nursing home evacuated five days ago - people in wheelchairs sitting there and slowly dying," he says.

The situation has been made worse by a lack of trust between the mainly poor, African-American population left behind in New Orleans and the predominately white police force, our correspondent adds.

Lawlessness in New Orleans

In pictures

Up to 60,000 people could still be stranded in the city, the US coastguard says.

Looting has swept the city as people made homeless by the flooding have grown increasingly desperate.

There have also been outbreaks of shootings and carjackings and reports of rapes.

The federal emergency agency was trying to work "under conditions of urban warfare", director Michael Brown said.

The muddy floodwaters are now toxic with fuel, battery acid, rubbish and raw sewage. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]Don't you respect the opinioun regardless of religion?
If you’re hungry, wet, cold, desperate and suffering you'll do whatever you can to get out of it. That means breaking a shitload of federal laws. You can't hold these people to the same standard. Especially when you preach from comfort. That's sick insane.
The breaking of moral laws is another topic.

He's not the cause, unless Katrina was pressured Air finally escaping his head.

The irony of benevolence and banks :([/QUOTE]
i was kidding on both accounts, actually.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]i was kidding on both accounts, actually.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I know you weren't serious about Bush(-ed under a hollow oak). I wish you were. If possible--out of spite--I would blame him.

I got this from [URL=http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-28/cover_story.html]Best of New Orleans[/URL] news website.

"...Among emergency specialists, 'mitigation' -- the measures taken in advance to minimize the damage caused by natural disasters -- is a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs. But since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA's Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half. Communities across the country must now compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars."

The Bush administration's move to merge FEMA with Homeland Security meant that the two had to compete for funding. Straightforward projects that would have massively reduced the devastation we are now seeing, such as raising houses, were cast aside in favor of anti-terrorism measures.

And since the Bush administration has become renowned for its open border policies, the argument that the money was directed towards the real threats facing America is a hollow excuse.

Much of the Netherlands lies below sea level and after the 1953 flood which killed 1,800 people, the Dutch launched a major flood prevention program called the Delta Plan. Engineers fortified dykes and bolstered other water defenses against a future disaster and there hasn't been one since.

Had a similar project been in place for New Orleans and had Bush not cut the funding, the misery and turmoil being visited on that area would have been avoided.

[B]It is an insult to the victims of Hurricane Katrina that the federal government can stomp in, impose martial law while forcibly evacuating local government officials against their will and then be portrayed as saviors by the media, when it was the Bush administration that figuratively opened the gates for the floods to rampage through the city and kill countless thousands." [/B]

That last paragraph is really touching. So Snuffy, what you said about the Bush Administration causing this disaster and not nature, can actually be in a way true. The hurricane was a natural disaster but the ensuing chaos and damage was a man-made, or man-facilitated disaster.

[QUOTE=wenknee]He lost everything at some point. Should he have just stayed out on the street through it?
People are just trying to help. The same thing could happen to us, you know. (I live South of Houston - if that thing had come here, I'd be in the same situation.) My kids got all freaked out last night because the sky started getting dark and they ran in from outside and started saying, "We're getting a hurricane!" It took a lot of convincing to let them know that it was just going to rain.[/QUOTE]

i understand that people are just trying to help, i'd do the same; but our friend alvin led us to believe that he was in such distress and he didn't have anything, then he conveniently waits until after someone comes to help to tell us he was homeless before the storm. what about the people who had their shit together before the storm, the people who had families. they should have precedent over some bum who hitched a ride. that was my point.

[QUOTE=big S]i understand that people are just trying to help, i'd do the same; but our friend alvin led us to believe that he was in such distress and he didn't have anything, then he conveniently waits until after someone comes to help to tell us he was homeless before the storm. what about the people who had their shit together before the storm, the people who had families. they should have precedent over some bum who hitched a ride. that was my point.[/QUOTE]
Yeah...at least he was honest though. I'm just thankful that some of them have gotten out. Supposedly the others are going to be helped soon. They're all homeless now.

This whole thing just pisses me off. I know people that evacuated and I've got no way to get in touch with them - except by emailing their relatives who live all over the country and they haven't responded. I'm trying to get them to come stay here until they're allowed back in.

[QUOTE=Maddetchke Malorkus]
"[B]It is an insult to the victims of Hurricane Katrina that the federal government can stomp in, impose martial law while forcibly evacuating local government officials against their will and then be portrayed as saviors by the media, when it was the Bush administration that figuratively opened the gates for the floods to rampage through the city and kill countless thousands." [/B]

That last paragraph is really touching. So Snuffy, what you said about the Bush Administration causing this disaster and not nature, can actually be in a way true. The hurricane was a natural disaster but the ensuing chaos and damage was a man-made, or man-facilitated disaster.[/QUOTE]
I don't care for Bush, and I'd agree he added fuel to the fire here in the aftermath by furthering the cuts to the programs that could have provided swift relief. But to claim that the flood itself is his fault is ignoring history.

I've seen multiple brief interviews with people from the Army Corps of Engineers and this shit has been going on for decades. Bush may be inept, but he's also unlucky - this could have happened 20-30 years ago if the conditions had been met.

Americans are too near-term-results-oriented. Fixing the levee was never going to happen under any Democratic Party administration, because people weren't afraid of it, and the Dems don't use fear tactics well.

The Republicans are masters of manipulating fear, and as such could have convinced the public to fix the levees. They could have milked tax dollars to build it and paid Halliburton or some other company that's lining their pockets. It was, to be fair, more realistic under Bush I or Reagan. Bush II used the tactic above instead to start the Iraq war.

And to be fair, setting up democracy in Iraq could pay off in 30 years and make America safer. Right now, we're less safe in my opinion - especially considering the effect of this hurricaine. But there's no telling what the state of affairs will be 30 years down the road.

Still, now we're stuck with resource shortages on multiple fronts. The country is getting tired of it. This very well could break the Republican's chances of continuing to hold the presidency.

And that's exactly why we don't have any good long term plans. Shit happens, and we change parties in charge, regardless of how much of it was their fault.

Yeah, I'm depressed as hell about all this.

[QUOTE=jase]I don't care for Bush, and I'd agree he added fuel to the fire here in the aftermath by furthering the cuts to the programs that could have provided swift relief. But to claim that the flood itself is his fault is ignoring history.

I've seen multiple brief interviews with people from the Army Corps of Engineers and this shit has been going on for decades. Bush may be inept, but he's also unlucky - this could have happened 20-30 years ago if the conditions had been met.

Americans are too near-term-results-oriented. Fixing the levee was never going to happen under any Democratic Party administration, because people weren't afraid of it, and the Dems don't use fear tactics well.

The Republicans are masters of manipulating fear, and as such could have convinced the public to fix the levees. They could have milked tax dollars to build it and paid Halliburton or some other company that's lining their pockets. It was, to be fair, more realistic under Bush I or Reagan. Bush II used the tactic above instead to start the Iraq war.

And to be fair, setting up democracy in Iraq could pay off in 30 years and make America safer. Right now, we're less safe in my opinion - especially considering the effect of this hurricaine. But there's no telling what the state of affairs will be 30 years down the road.

Still, now we're stuck with resource shortages on multiple fronts. The country is getting tired of it. This very well could break the Republican's chances of continuing to hold the presidency.

And that's exactly why we don't have any good long term plans. Shit happens, and we change parties in charge, regardless of how much of it was their fault.

Yeah, I'm depressed as hell about all this.[/QUOTE]
The levee system was only completed in 1966 - 3 years after another Category 5 hurricane, named Betsy hit. Then in 1969 they got the outer bands of a Category 5 hurricane named Camille that hit Biloxi. Sure they could've been improved, but maybe they should have been built properly in the first place. That was 40 years ago that they were first built. Why 10 years later did they come back and say that they were inadequate?

Louisiana, in general is known for corrupt politicians and the money used for these projects goes elsewhere. Money from the casinos is supposed to go toward education, but I didn't see any improvements in that when I lived there. In fact, right before I left, my son's school, who was leasing a building, lost its lease. They had to relocate the entire school to another building, and it took them months to find one that would give them a one year lease - and that's just completely ridiculous. Road construction takes years to complete and then the contractors end up doing something incorrectly and it all has to be redone.
One of the canals that runs along an area where one of these levees broke has a flood lock, as do many of the other canals that run along these levees (the canals flow into Lake Ponchartrain) It took them two years to install this flood lock (it was complete in 2002). They did this because it flooded in 1998. And this did improve flooding a bit. Who knows if they could have done anything in time to improve the levee enough to prevent this. (I used to live 3 blocks from one of the levees that broke).
They were vulnerable with or without improvements - most of the city lies below sea level on the Gulf Coast. This happens to Florida and the southeast coast every year - entire cities are destroyed. This much attention is occuring because this time it hit a major city and the government failed to act in time to get the survivors out. Blaming the flooding on anyone is beside the point - I blame the [I]aftermath[/I] on the government sitting on its ass for days because they 'weren't sure what they were going to do'. But ... blaming it on Bush is no problem for me. The levee problems can also be blamed on the state or the city, who are notorious for mishandling their money.

And there are probably still people trapped in their homes. At least in pictures I've seen of the Convention Center today and those people are finally getting help. Four days too late.

And yes, the fact that this happened is absolutely depressing. 80 days to clear the flood water out. How long is it going to take them to tell how many people died? When are they going to start gathering the bodies that are just lying around?

[QUOTE=jase]I don't care for Bush, and I'd agree he added fuel to the fire here in the aftermath by furthering the cuts to the programs that could have provided swift relief. But to claim that the flood itself is his fault is ignoring history.

I've seen multiple brief interviews with people from the Army Corps of Engineers and this shit has been going on for decades. Bush may be inept, but he's also unlucky - this could have happened 20-30 years ago if the conditions had been met.

Americans are too near-term-results-oriented. Fixing the levee was never going to happen under any Democratic Party administration, because people weren't afraid of it, and the Dems don't use fear tactics well.

The Republicans are masters of manipulating fear, and as such could have convinced the public to fix the levees. They could have milked tax dollars to build it and paid Halliburton or some other company that's lining their pockets. It was, to be fair, more realistic under Bush I or Reagan. Bush II used the tactic above instead to start the Iraq war.

And to be fair, setting up democracy in Iraq could pay off in 30 years and make America safer. Right now, we're less safe in my opinion - especially considering the effect of this hurricaine. But there's no telling what the state of affairs will be 30 years down the road.

Still, now we're stuck with resource shortages on multiple fronts. The country is getting tired of it. This very well could break the Republican's chances of continuing to hold the presidency.

And that's exactly why we don't have any good long term plans. Shit happens, and we change parties in charge, regardless of how much of it was their fault.

Yeah, I'm depressed as hell about all this.[/QUOTE]
What you say might be true jase. But all this hindsight amounts to donkey shit. What's needed is help down south. Why bother analyzing what should have been done when we desperately need to know what is being done?

[QUOTE=wenknee]They were vulnerable with or without improvements - most of the city lies below sea level on the Gulf Coast. This happens to Florida and the southeast coast every year - entire cities are destroyed. This much attention is occuring because this time it hit a major city and the government failed to act in time to get the survivors out. Blaming the flooding on anyone is beside the point - I blame the [I]aftermath[/I] on the government sitting on its ass for days because they 'weren't sure what they were going to do'. But ... blaming it on Bush is no problem for me. The levee problems can also be blamed on the state or the city, who are notorious for mishandling their money.

And there are probably still people trapped in their homes. At least in pictures I've seen of the Convention Center today and those people are finally getting help. Four days too late.

And yes, the fact that this happened is absolutely depressing. 80 days to clear the flood water out. How long is it going to take them to tell how many people died? When are they going to start gathering the bodies that are just lying around?[/QUOTE]
I think we're all in agreement about the aftermath. If this was truly unpreventable, I have to wonder why people insist on living down there in the first place. Is the country really that crowded now?

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]What you say might be true jase. But all this hindsight amounts to donkey shit. What's needed is help down south. Why bother analyzing what should have been done when we desperately need to know what is being done?[/QUOTE]
Yes, they need serious help. We're getting band-aids for a severed jugular. Everyone knows that, and it certainly sucks.

My "hindsight" was trying making a point about our future. We knew, even expected that this could happen, and didn't do anything (at least, not enough) about it. People living down there, to some extent, knew it was risky to be there. Then it got serious, evacuation notices and such. Some people couldn't afford to heed the warning, others were just stubborn, others never heard about it. BAM. Tragedy.

Sure, we gotta patch things up, but is it too soon to look for a pattern here? Maybe look past this at other potential problems that are being neglected? Your statement is exactly that near-term results-now after-the-fact mentality I was talking about. Are we going to learn anything from this, or are we going to just wait for the next tragedy to hit us?

Let's get specific: We still have chemical plants completely exposed to terrorism. Is anyone going to do anything about it before one of them gets a-sploded into the sky and poisons a few thousand to death? Other than buying duct tape and plastic sheeting, that is...

Probably not.

And whoever's president at the time will get blamed for it. And that party will blame the prior administrations. And we still won't learn a damn thing. You wanna call that donkey shit, hell, I'm right with ya on that. It's one big festering pile of maggot-infested shit.

I'm not trying to be callous to the people in need down there. I just don't feel like waiting until the area dries up before bringing this pattern of neglect to light.

[QUOTE=jase]I think we're all in agreement about the aftermath. If this was truly unpreventable, I have to wonder why people insist on living down there in the first place. Is the country really that crowded now?[/QUOTE]

Most of those people lived there their whole lives. They don't know any place else. I went to college there. It was the kind of place that you just kind of got stuck.

[QUOTE=Maddetchke Malorkus]You may be joking. But when I showed the pictures to my coworker she said the same thing and she wasn't joking. Anyway if you want to get specific the white guy has a backpack and you don't know how many people the black guy is sharing with. Maybe the white guy is a rapist, maybe the black guy is a Christian, maybe he's a liar, maybe the white guy is a really generous tipper at restaurants. It doesn't matter. I'd be looting/finding/taking if I were there. I'd be trying to survive. If the law enforcers aren't there to protect and serve then I wouldn't respect the law's abstract ideals that have no relevence in a situation where I felt abandoned by them.[/QUOTE]

Listen hon. This isn't entriely a black and white thing. I am sure there a plenty of white trash nieghborhoods that would loot the same or worse.

However you can't cover the sky with a finger. The ones who appear in the majority of videos, who are looting tvs and stuff, are black.

Shit, i saw a interview with a black kid who said he was looting because there were no cops around, so what he was doing wasn't bad.

and yeah, i am sure the one who looted the Kmart store, the gun department were white people with backpacks.

:rolleyes:

Yeah there is people who are taking things for survival, and there are people who are taking everything for whatever reason. Even going into other peoples homes and shit. You are going to be PC about that?

Also, on the note on the picture thing, maybe before using your imagination about the kid being christian, maybe you could have guessed that the person who took the picture probably saw what the kid putted in the trash bags, and how many trips he may have taken back and forth with stuff, etc.

Besides i am sure there are black people everywhere who are pissed by what they saw on t.v., and i am sure there must be someone who is black who thinks the same thing about the picture. The same way i am pissed when puertorricans act like asses on t.v.

but hey, yeah whatever...

[url]http://poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=88106[/url]

[url]http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index.html[/url]

rest my case.

make no mistake about it--if i were there right now, i'd be looting the fuck out of the place, and i would've been prepared by bringing my own backpack (or i would just get a new one!)

[QUOTE=alex cassun]make no mistake about it--if i were there right now, i'd be looting the fuck out of the place, and i would've been prepared by bringing my own backpack (or i would just get a new one!)[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I might've even taken the goddam photographer's camera... and water bottles... and food... and...

[QUOTE=alex cassun]make no mistake about it--if i were there right now, i'd be looting the fuck out of the place, and i would've been prepared by bringing my own backpack (or i would just get a new one!)[/QUOTE]

and make no mistake about the only thing i am really pissed about is people looting shit they don't need like tv's.
the only thing questionable about the kid in the picture is the thrash bag. I don't care about the diet pepsis.

but hey i am sure you would cover a piece of food that is half way in the water for good reason right?
other than hiding something
right?

[QUOTE=jase]
Yes, they need serious help. We're getting band-aids for a severed jugular. Everyone knows that, and it certainly sucks.

My "hindsight" was trying making a point about our future. We knew, even expected that this could happen, and didn't do anything (at least, not enough) about it. People living down there, to some extent, knew it was risky to be there. Then it got serious, evacuation notices and such. Some people couldn't afford to heed the warning, others were just stubborn, others never heard about it. BAM. Tragedy.

Sure, we gotta patch things up, but is it too soon to look for a pattern here? Maybe look past this at other potential problems that are being neglected? Your statement is exactly that near-term results-now after-the-fact mentality I was talking about. Are we going to learn anything from this, or are we going to just wait for the next tragedy to hit us?

Let's get specific: We still have chemical plants completely exposed to terrorism. Is anyone going to do anything about it before one of them gets a-sploded into the sky and poisons a few thousand to death? Other than buying duct tape and plastic sheeting, that is...

Probably not.

And whoever's president at the time will get blamed for it. And that party will blame the prior administrations. And we still won't learn a damn thing. You wanna call that donkey shit, hell, I'm right with ya on that. It's one big festering pile of maggot-infested shit.

I'm not trying to be callous to the people in need down there. I just don't feel like waiting until the area dries up before bringing this pattern of neglect to light.[/QUOTE]
Mate… ok….Errrr…. I could argue a metaphysical hypothesis about the essence of a peanut shell. My point was abstract talking... …..Shit, what it boils down to is that my beef is with all the bullshit hypocritical politicians that talk in circles about solutions that lead nowhere, and in our case we're lead by an overcooked potato head that “we” as a country put into office.

Another thing that kills me is that it takes a tragedy like this to open some eyes. There’s plenty of famine, disease, and natural disaster in the rest of the world—on going, going on.

To answer you question, no, I really don’t think we will learn anything from this. If we’re allowed to crawl back in our bubbles we will.

Then again, come on! I don’t care how “prepared” you think you are, you can’t predict the future. Are you suggesting we amend the patriot act to the point where it infringes on simple civil liberties? Then it an’t long before it restricts freedom of speech and expression—and I’ll jump to the front line if it comes to that. (And I think you would to.)

Today, above all, in this rink-of-a-dink-town I heard people bitch about gas prices. It’s pretty pathetic when gas prices take precedence over human life.

You think for a country that has been told it “has it together” could get hundreds of people out of a dome in a blink of the eye. Where is all the military recon? That’s right, they’ve been told to run after a phantom threat, which just creates more hate and death in the eyes of freedom—how does that work? I support the troops whole-heartedly (lost a friend in this fucking war), but not this thin cause that is nothing but a charred matchbook of lies.

We’ve been so busy chasing some mystified abstract demon we refuse to look at the problems in our own structure. Done. I an’t saying anything new.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]and make no mistake about the only thing i am really pissed about is people looting shit they don't need like tv's.
the only thing questionable about the kid in the picture is the thrash bag. I don't care about the diet pepsis.

but hey i am sure you would cover a piece of food that is half way in the water for good reason right?
other than hiding something
right?[/QUOTE]
It's possible that the kid had a few people to take food back to and ripped open a box of garbage bags because with water chest-high - who knows when you're going to be able to get out to get more.
I'd do the same thing.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]and make no mistake about the only thing i am really pissed about is people looting shit they don't need like tv's.[/QUOTE]

Hahahahahahahahaha! Least that's "the only thing" you are "really pissed about" .

(Maybe the bags are full of anti-psychotics. I'm "powered" my similar chemicals, so I can say that. )

[CENTER]THE CITY IS DESTROYED.
WHO FUCKING CARES [B]WHAT[/B] THEY WERE "LOOTING"--or "FINDING"?[/CENTER]

It's not like they're going to load the TVs up on the bus out...

Let them loot.
I'd do the same.

It's human nature at this point, because if it's free everyone must have it.

i almost considered getting money to drive my shit van out there just to steal a new jeep wrangler. i've always wanted one of those.

LOL.

Except with the amount that gas will cost to get there you might as well just buy a new one.

Yep,
Kanye West...
I wasn't going to say anything...
But the thing is, making it about race is not going to help anyone. Even if it is about race, shouldn't we just focus on helping people as opposed to talking about shit like race and wealth? Can't we deal with that when people are eating, clothed, and dry in a house?

Plus, he sounded like a moron anyhow.

[QUOTE=sara faye]Alright, this is really bothering me:

I watched a portion of that "Concert for Hurricane Relief" on NBC earlier, and one of the celebrity guests (I think it might have been Kanye West, he was standing next to Mike Myers) blurted out "George Bush doesn't like black people!" right before it cut to Chris Rock. Seriously, what the fuck. It's a FUNDRAISER, not a political sounding board for racial propaganda![/QUOTE]

A few years ago--I think it was during his first campaign--I saw him KISS A BLACK BABY! ON TV!

But seriously, you're right. VERY right.

[QUOTE=ralphthompsonxxx]Hahahahahahahahaha! Least that's "the only thing" you are "really pissed about" .

(Maybe the bags are full of anti-psychotics. I'm "powered" my similar chemicals, so I can say that. )

[CENTER]THE CITY IS DESTROYED.
WHO FUCKING CARES [B]WHAT[/B] THEY WERE "LOOTING"--or "FINDING"?[/CENTER]

It's not like they're going to load the TVs up on the bus out...[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah right city is destroyed so it's okay to get guns. :rolleyes:

and my point exactly the city is fucking destroyed, the can't use the tv but yet they have to loot them. They get into people's houses and loot whatever they have left.

If your house was lucky enough not to get destroyed, probably wasn't lucky enough to not get looted.

Point is, instead of the tragedy bring people together and forget silly things as tvs, some people can't forget that. They have to act the same shitty or worst way than before the hurricaine.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard[/url]

I think Congress probably should investigate the National Guard delay. Looks like George Bush might have to fire some low-ranking person.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]Oh yeah right city is destroyed so it's okay to get guns. :rolleyes:

and my point exactly the city is fucking destroyed, the can't use the tv but yet they have to loot them. They get into people's houses and loot whatever they have left.

If your house was lucky enough not to get destroyed, probably wasn't lucky enough to not get looted.

Point is, instead of the tragedy bring people together and forget silly things as tvs, some people can't forget that. They have to act the same shitty or worst way than before the hurricaine.[/QUOTE]

You're always going to have those that see situations like this as opportunity, rather than tragedy.

The cops couldn't be everywhere - they had no communication - they had no food themselves and were taking food from stores and many of them walked off the job - they lost everything too.

A lot of this could have been prevented if help had come earlier.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]Oh yeah right city is destroyed so it's okay to get guns. :rolleyes:

and my point exactly the city is fucking destroyed, the can't use the tv but yet they have to loot them. They get into people's houses and loot whatever they have left.

If your house was lucky enough not to get destroyed, probably wasn't lucky enough to not get looted.

Point is, instead of the tragedy bring people together and forget silly things as tvs, some people can't forget that. They have to act the same shitty or worst way than before the hurricaine.[/QUOTE]

All bets are off. Had guns not been fired, the media wouldn't have started getting serious. Before shots were fired (things get hazy in memory after a few days, so don't make like you walked into the movie an hour after it started... unless, well, you did), VERY FEW were paying ANY attention. Look back to when just this little piss thread exploded (about the same time the media started flipping out). "They're shooting at helicopters!" May be... but I've yet to see a chopper with a single bullet in it. One Guardsman/cop was shot in the leg about midweek--that's when the conditions started to garner attention. If a house wasn't destroyed, then when was it looted: was it the first day after, the second, the third, or the fourth? The fifth? Get the point...? How would you be feeling on the third night of being in those kinds of conditions without your meds? You'd be fighting with and against people like me: to find them and survive. I'm not going to sit back after the Government left them stranded there and point a finger at anyone's "crazy" actions, like stealing TVs. The rapes, the assaults, the REAL violence obviously isn't good, but that's a reflection of a few peoples' mindsets... THAT's a condemnable action, not stealing TVs--that's petty.

What's worse than a medicated drama queen?
An unmedicated, heat-exhausted, starving, dying of thirst, toxic-water swimming, gun-toting, helpless, seemingly-forsaken and forgotton drama queen.

(I know, that could've been nicer... but I ran out of clever adjectives/adverbs.)

[QUOTE]What's worse than a medicated drama queen?
An unmedicated, heat-exhausted, starving, dying of thirst, toxic-water swimming, gun-toting, helpless, seemingly-forsaken and forgotton drama queen.[/QUOTE]

Best thing I read all day.

I don't no whether to laugh or cry.... The words of our president elect.
[QUOTE]
Again, my attitude is, if it's not going exactly right, we're going to make it go exactly right. If there's problems, we're going to address the problems. And that's what I've come down to assure people of. And again, I want to thank everybody.
And I'm not looking forward to this trip. I got a feel for it when I flew over before. It -- for those who have not -- trying to conceive what we're talking about, it's as if the entire Gulf Coast were obliterated by a -- the worst kind of weapon you can imagine. And now we're going to go try to comfort people in that part of the world.[/QUOTE]

Read the last line again.

[QUOTE]And now we're going to go try to comfort people in [U]that part of the world[/U].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]I don't no whether to laugh or cry.... The words of our president elect.

Read the last line again.[/QUOTE]
He should not speak unless things are written down for him.

he probably wrote it himself with crayons on the back of a mcdonald's placemat.

[QUOTE=big S]he probably wrote it himself with crayons on the back of a mcdonald's placemat.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he drew pictures of what he was going to say...

[QUOTE=wenknee]He should not speak unless things are written down for him.[/QUOTE]

But [I]he[/I] chooses who writes them down... and they probably were prewritten.

[QUOTE=big S]he probably wrote it himself with crayons on the back of a mcdonald's placemat.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=wenknee]Maybe he drew pictures of what he was going to say...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ralphthompsonxxx]But [I]he[/I] chooses who writes them down... and they probably were prewritten. :D[/QUOTE]
haahahahahahhahaha! NEEDED THAT!
Yeah, here's one....

[IMG]http://www.bbna.com/EarlyLearning/Dillingham/images/kids%20drawings/draw4.jpg[/IMG]

Actors and directors and celebrities...the weathly whether well known or not-so, out there with 5 houses and millions of dollars....especially Oprah with her weight loss program, i.e: lipo.... and Mel Gibson, spending over $100Million on The Passion....yet, when they donate, that is IF they donate, they only give $650K, or some bullshit when tomorrow they would probably go spend $2million on a giraffe for their backyard ensemble of other million-dollar trinkets.

Should someone try to profit from this or any kind of horrific disaster, there should be a policy or law against it, and the policy would inculde that if someone does create something of any profitable value from a disaster, that all lucre would go directly to the communities involved and/or directly affected.

[QUOTE=Minuet]Actors and directors and celebrities...the weathly whether well known or not-so, out there with 5 houses and millions of dollars....especially Oprah with her weight loss program, i.e: lipo.... and Mel Gibson, spending over $100Million on The Passion....yet, when they donate, that is IF they donate, they only give $650K, or some bullshit when tomorrow they would probably go spend $2million on a giraffe for their backyard ensemble of other million-dollar trinkets.

Should someone try to profit from this or any kind of horrific disaster, there should be a policy or law against it, and the policy would inculde that if someone does create something of any profitable value from a disaster, that all lucre would go directly to the communities involved and/or directly affected.[/QUOTE]
yes yes, great points.. God forbid big oil companies donated the profits they're making from artificially high gasoline prices. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Minuet]Actors and directors and celebrities...the weathly whether well known or not-so, out there with 5 houses and millions of dollars....especially Oprah with her weight loss program, i.e: lipo.... and Mel Gibson, spending over $100Million on The Passion....yet, when they donate, that is IF they donate, they only give $650K, or some bullshit when tomorrow they would probably go spend $2million on a giraffe for their backyard ensemble of other million-dollar trinkets.

Should someone try to profit from this or any kind of horrific disaster, there should be a policy or law against it, and the policy would inculde that if someone does create something of any profitable value from a disaster, that all lucre would go directly to the communities involved and/or directly affected.[/QUOTE]
I saw that Hillary Duff donated $250 thousand and I thought to myself "Where are the Olsen twins?"
There will be some that donate - it's really publicity for them...and those that are now getting involved took as long to get involved as the relief took to get there.
Their help [I]is[/I] needed, yes, because they've GOT the money. The pictures of kids dumping their piggy banks in order to help these people and the regular, nameless people, giving what they can is more profound to me than a publicity photo of some celebrity next to an article with a dollar amount that I can't even conceive of having all at once.

My kids came home with flyers yesterday, asking them to bring in change. My youngest (who was born in New Orleans) said, "My teacher said it's for all the dead people." I tried to explain that wasn't really what it was for, but what's the point in arguing with a six year-old?