Michael Vick - Hero or the baddest illegal dog-fighter to ever touch a pigskin?

As my boyfriend stated tonight..."It's odd how O.J. killed his wife and nobody seemed outraged at that, but some dumbass NFL player fucks around with dogs and everyone's in an uproar."

I remember lots of people being outraged by the OJ thing.

[QUOTE=aiyoku;1022620]As my boyfriend stated tonight..."It's odd how O.J. killed his wife and nobody seemed outraged at that, but some dumbass NFL player fucks around with dogs and everyone's in an uproar."[/QUOTE]

For the record: my take was OJ was guilty and should have gotten the gas chamber. I think they still have a gas chamber in California, as un-Californian as that seems.

I hate 'lethal injection.' Executions are supposed to be gruesome, they're for the benefit of those in society who might have the same impulses, the ultimate 'Do you want to make good choices?' statement. The only way the death penalty really works is if it's swift and terrible. Six weeks, tops, for all appeals to be run. Do we need a better justice system to make that happen? Absolutely, but morally, someone who's committed a capital crime should not be able to buy his freedom or escape retribution.

Michael Vick does not deserve the death penalty, even though I love dogs. But he does deserve to lose his career and his fortune, and he definitely deserves to lose his freedom for a long time. In my world, he'd emerge from prison in ten or fifteen years with no money and have to figure out an existence on his own. Put him where he'd be if he didn't have all that talent: just another marginal ex con with no prospects anyone can detect.

[QUOTE]For jail time, my money is still on not one day. The only thing I can see making him cop this plea is a promise that he'll spend zero nights in shackles and chains, though he ought to get more than a couple years, the fucker.[/QUOTE]

They won't let him off without prison time, don't worry. A year (6 mos. for good behavior) at the absolute minimum. And he copped a plea because he knew he was fucked. They've got an orgy of evidence, man. Plus seven witnesses who turned state's against him to cut down on their own sentences, and photographs on top of that.

It's not like he was a casual participant who just happened to sponsor a dog or two in some matches. If what they're saying about him is true, he financed most of the fights personally. Pleading guilty (rather than being convicted, which he would have been, in all likelihood) lessened his time behind bars, but didn't eliminate it.

There was tons of outrage over the OJ Simpson ordeal, but the difference between these two cases is that OJ was long retired from football while Vick is still in his prime, he's in a contract for over one hundred million dollars, he's the face of his team and one of the most popular figures in the sport. The OJ outrage was many white people felt he should've been found guilty and killed and many black people thought the white people were being racist. As horrific as dogfighting is I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as murdering another person, but if I were in charge of the universe Vick would be in prison for 5 years (long enough to guarantee no return to football) and his fortune would be long gone.

Mike Vick 'doggie chew toy' hits the market.

[url]http://akamat.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/vick-dog-chew-toy/[/url]

Saint Paul Saints to be giving them away at next game.

[IMG]http://www.jimmyshowbiz.com/vickschewtoy2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Benny P.;1022664]They won't let him off without prison time, don't worry. A year (6 mos. for good behavior) at the absolute minimum. And he copped a plea because he knew he was fucked. They've got an orgy of evidence, man. Plus seven witnesses who turned state's against him to cut down on their own sentences, and photographs on top of that.

It's not like he was a casual participant who just happened to sponsor a dog or two in some matches. If what they're saying about him is true, he financed most of the fights personally. Pleading guilty (rather than being convicted, which he would have been, in all likelihood) lessened his time behind bars, but didn't eliminate it.[/QUOTE]

Well, OJ wasn't a casual participant in the murder of his ex wife and her boyfriend. He was the one who stabbed them to death.

Still, I guess it's theoretically possible he'll at least visit jail. Martha Stewart couldn't quite buy her freedom.

[QUOTE=alex cassun;1022665] but if I were in charge of the universe Vick would be in prison for 5 years (long enough to guarantee no return to football) and his fortune would be long gone.[/QUOTE]

5 years sounds good to me, but if I were in charge of the universe he would be tied to a rape stand of his own in jail and, well I think we all know what would happen then.

[QUOTE=aiyoku;1022840]5 years sounds good to me, but if I were in charge of the universe he would be tied to a rape stand of his own in jail and, well I think we all know what would happen then.[/QUOTE]
No. What?

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1022849]No. What?[/QUOTE]

Everyone else in jail would have a very good five years.

[QUOTE=aiyoku;1022850]Everyone else in jail would have a very good five years.[/QUOTE]

I highly doubt that having butt sex with a restrained black man in prison constitutes a "good five years".

Why, because you've tried it and it wasn't up to par?

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1022862]I highly doubt that having butt sex with a restrained black man in prison constitutes a "good five years".[/QUOTE]

BWABWA!!
if he's going to a regular federal prison that'd be funny, he copped a plea and he's a multi-millionaire he should be going to the prison martha & pablo went to. with non-stop congecal visits

he should wrestle after he gets out of prison
hell pac-man did it
and he doing So welll

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1022862]I highly doubt that having butt sex with a restrained black man in prison constitutes a "good five years".[/QUOTE]
Now if he was white or Asian, it'd be different. In my opinion, I think.

The awful thing is, he'll be adored by his fellow inmates. And the way things are these days, he'll probably be back out in a year, maybe serve another year's suspension and by under center by the time he's 30 with a good five to eight years of amazing play still in him.

It's a shame, because as much fun as he was to watch, this should ruin him. Sucks that it won't.

Yeah, we're too easy to forgive. The good thing about his talent is that he's not the type of guy you just plug into an offense - you've got to build an offense around him, and I'm hoping owners don't want to rebuild their team around a 30 year old felon past his peak.

[QUOTE=alex cassun;1022963]In my opinion, I think.[/QUOTE]But of course.

[QUOTE=alex cassun;1023137]Yeah, we're too easy to forgive. The good thing about his talent is that he's not the type of guy you just plug into an offense - you've got to build an offense around him, and I'm hoping owners don't want to rebuild their team around a 30 year old felon past his peak.[/QUOTE]

My humble (as always) opinion of owners is they're mostly scumbags. Al Davis wouldn't want this guy? And this guy isn't talented enough for Al Davis to build a Super Bowl contender around? Jerry Jones would hire this guy. I'm sure others would. Unless the NFL bans him for life, Vick will be back. And we do not need a competitive Phoenix Cardinals.

The late Marge Schott (may she be fed to the fighting dogs in hell) would have invited Vick to dinner after this except for him being 'colored.' Schott would actually probably like him the more for reinforcing the notion that hip-hop culture is both reprehensible and irresistible to blacks. I know, she was baseball, but she was still an owner and not atypical to my way of seeing them.

[B]UPDATE:[/B]

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick [U]will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights[/U], as detailed in his indictment, when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, Va., federal court Monday, a source close to the case has told ESPN. Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

The source told ESPN that Vick's defense team met with federal attorneys Thursday afternoon to determine the "summary of facts" to which Vick will plead, and that his attorneys believed they had a deal. The source said Vick maintains he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight.

He will admit he was present when dogs were killed, but that he did not personally kill any of the dogs.

The allegations of killing dogs and gambling were part of the picture painted by Vick's three co-defendants, all of whom have pleaded guilty.

Vick, 27, is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.

[b]Vick's co-defendants said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight dogs seen as underperforming by various means, including drowning and hanging.[/b]

A government official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the terms are not final, told The Associated Press Wednesday that prosecutors will recommend a sentence of one year to 18 months. However, U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is not bound by that recommendation or by federal sentencing guidelines that will call for less than the five-year maximum.

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989037[/url]

bigshrimpn

In the movie "The Jerk" Steve Martin played a white boy who grew up in a black family thinking he was black. Strange, but I kind of understand how that might happen. But how can a white boy grow up in a white family, yet still believe he's black? After reading your post I felt like I'd rather put lighter fluid on my hair and set it on fire than listen to the inane drivel you try to pass off as "thought." I hope one day to live on a planet where brains and mouths are handed out only in pairs.

[QUOTE=mongo95442;1024578]bigshrimpn

In the movie "The Jerk" Steve Martin played a white boy who grew up in a black family thinking he was black. Strange, but I kind of understand how that might happen. But how can a white boy grow up in a white family, yet still believe he's black? After reading your post I felt like I'd rather put lighter fluid on my hair and set it on fire than listen to the inane drivel you try to pass off as "thought." I hope one day to live on a planet where brains and mouths are handed out only in pairs.[/QUOTE]
I'm not black?

EDIT: Suck my balls.

[QUOTE=mongo95442;1024578]bigshrimpn

In the movie "The Jerk" Steve Martin played a white boy who grew up in a black family thinking he was black. Strange, but I kind of understand how that might happen. But how can a white boy grow up in a white family, yet still believe he's black? After reading your post I felt like I'd rather put lighter fluid on my hair and set it on fire than listen to the inane drivel you try to pass off as "thought." I hope one day to live on a planet where brains and mouths are handed out only in pairs.[/QUOTE]Also you should know that the feeling I get from knowing that my post was the reason you signed up here kinda negates your negative comments.

:32:

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1025636]Also you should know that the feeling I get from knowing that my post was the reason you signed up here kinda negates your negative comments.

:32:[/QUOTE]

:owned:

I don't really care about the Michael Vick thing most likely he did it if sentenced hes gonna be going to jail for a long time. All I know is that the Falcons have sucked so far without him their like 1-6 they need Vick.

All I'm going to say is this;

I fucking hate dogs.

Edit: Not that I condone this shit, but I think there are much, much, much worse things happening everyday that get overlooked, when they should be in priority over some animal abuse.

I don't trust people that don't like dogs.

To be fair, it's a bit of a childhood trauma.

Two big fucking pitbulls lived near me.
Cool.

One fucking escaped and ran rampant around trying to bite kids and shit.
Cool.

I was like six and my mum got me and my little friends in the backyard (we had a fence) because this dog was like lurking around waiting for one of us to slip up, so it could maim us or something.

From then on I was paranoid, but dogs always seemed to hate me.

I've been bit in the arm by big dogs, and chased and bitten in the leg by small dogs this year.

And let me tell you;

A few terriers and a poodle fucking chasing you down and nipping at your legs isn't nearly as notthatbad as it sounds. I wish I fucking kicked one of them into a car or something...

[QUOTE=essga11;1114312]I don't trust people that don't like dogs.[/QUOTE]

Which is why our love can never be, Bess.

Knuck Knuck says:

Dogs suck.

Meow.

[QUOTE=YellowRedBlue;1114283]All I'm going to say is this;

I fucking hate dogs.

Edit: Not that I condone this shit, but I think there are much, much, much worse things happening everyday that get overlooked, when they should be in priority over some animal abuse.[/QUOTE]

Agreed: sucking babies out of their mother's uteruses because 'Jimmy wants a new camcorder and a pickup' for a few greasy bucks is worse than the dog fighting thing. But that doesn't make the dog fighting thing okay.

[QUOTE=bigshrimpn;1114373]Knuck Knuck says:

Dogs suck.

Meow.[/QUOTE]

He knows all.

Knuck Knuck agrees.

[QUOTE=Chixulub;1114385]Agreed: sucking babies out of their mother's uteruses because 'Jimmy wants a new camcorder and a pickup' for a few greasy bucks is worse than the dog fighting thing. But that doesn't make the dog fighting thing okay.[/QUOTE]

I know, I'm just trying to put it into perspective.

If only his dog fighting buddies were as loyal.

[QUOTE]NEW YORK (AP) - Roddy White and four other Atlanta Falcons were fined by the NFL for violating uniform regulations with tributes to Michael Vick during last week's Monday night game.

Vick, Atlanta's suspended Pro Bowl quarterback, was sentenced to 23 months in prison on federal dogfighting charges the morning of Dec. 10. The Falcons played at home against New Orleans that night.
After scoring a touchdown, White displayed a "Free Mike Vick" T-shirt under his jersey.

He, along with tight end Alge Crumpler and cornerbacks DeAngelo Hall and Chris Houston, were fined $10,000 each. Crumpler, Hall and Houston all wore black eye strips with written tributes to Vick, which the league called "displaying an unauthorized personal message."

Wide receiver Joe Horn was fined $7,500 for pulling up White's jersey to show the black T-shirt with handwritten white lettering. The fines were confirmed Tuesday by NFL spokesman Randall Liu.

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Hall also had a poster of Vick on the field during pre-game introductions.

The Falcons lost the game 34-14. [/QUOTE]

I've been mauled by a pitbull and I've jumped in between my dog fighting another pitbull and it's never pretty seeing these animals fight. With that said, I believe pitbulls are one of the smartest and most loyal and loving breed of dogs out there and people who train them to be vicious are the real animals and should be treated accordingly. I think Vick's punishment is appropriate.

I do as well. Many things about the whole situation are fucked up, Vick's involvement being the forerunner. The sentenceing is fair enough

Also, enough with this "its part of the culture" bullshit, please.

I still think if he would have just done like Ray Lewis and killed somebody he would have been alright and still playing football.

They'd've forgive him if he was killing big mean black guys but because its cute little puppy dogs he's gunna get hanged.

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker;1125042]I still think if he would have just done like Ray Lewis and killed somebody he would have been alright and still playing football.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=alex cassun;1125072]They'd've forgive him if he was killing big mean black guys but because its cute little puppy dogs he's gunna get hanged.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned before, Vick is not a MVP material.

[B]In 2006, Vick became the only quarterback in NFL history to rush for over 1,000 yards during the regular season. [/B]

[B]In 2006, Vick set the NFL record for most yards per carry in a season, at 8.4. [/B]

When Vick and RB Jerious Norwood both ran for over 100 yards in Week 4 of the 2006 season, the Falcons became the only NFL team to ever record two games in a franchise's history where both the quarterback and a running back on the same team surpassed the 100-yard mark in the same game. (Vick and Warrick Dunn both eclipsed 100 yards in Week 2 of the same season.)

Vick (1,039 yards) and Dunn (1,140) became the first QB/RB tandem in NFL history to each go over the 1,000-yard rushing mark in the same season. They also became the fourth set of teammates in league history to each have 1,000 or more yards. The last set of teammates to accomplish the feat were Cleveland RBs Kevin Mack (1,104 yards) and Earnest Byner (1,002) in 1985.

[B]Earned his second consecutive and third overall Pro Bowl nod in 2005 as he passed for 2,412 yards and 16 touchdowns in addition to leading all NFL quarterbacks with 597 rushing yards and six scores. [/B]

Named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004.

Set an NFL postseason record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff win against the Rams.

[B]Became the first quarterback to ever throw for more than 250 yards and rush for over 100 yards in the same game at the Broncos (October 31, 2004).[/B]

[B]Named to the 2002 Pro Bowl[/B], becoming the seventh quarterback to be voted to the NFL All-Star game in his first year as a starter since 1970, joining[B] Dan Marino [/B]of the Miami Dolphins (1983), [B]Brett Favre [/B]of the Green Bay Packers (1992),[B] Kurt Warner [/B]of the St. Louis Rams (1999), [B]Daunte Culpepper [/B]of the Minnesota Vikings (2000), [B]Donovan McNabb [/B]of the Philadelphia Eagles (2000), and [B]Tom Brady[/B] of the New England Patriots (2001). This group would later include Marc Bulger of the St. Louis Rams (2003), Philip Rivers of the San Diego Chargers (2006), and Tony Romo of the Dallas Cowboys (2006).

Top overall NFL draft choice in 2001 after a celebrated college career at Virginia Tech. Was the fourth Falcons #1 overall pick in club history (Tommy Nobis in 1966, Steve Bartkowski in 1975, Aundray Bruce in 1988)

Yeah dude, you're probably right.

If your team doesn't get into the playoffs you should not be considered for MVP.

[QUOTE=essga11;1114312]I don't trust people that don't like dogs.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, word for word I used that exact same sentence in my story Thumbing. I like you.

MVP is so broad. League MVP? Team MVP? Offensive MVP? QB MVP?

In '04 the dude almost single handedly won the NFC South.

He's an ignorant fuck for what he did, but c'mon, the dude could have been a great football player. Maybe he had some weaknessed he needed to polish up on, but look at how long it's taken some of the greats to get the swing of pro ball after dominating in college. I think another couple years and he would have finally lived up to all the expectations.

I think he's a one of a kind talent, for sure. I think that if he wasn't a dumbfuck he'd've retired from the league in 12 years or so with some amazing stats, but that just makes him all the more of a douche. But up to the point that he was caught I don't think he's ever put up a league MVP type season.

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker;1003333]Even if he is guilty on every single thing they've charged him with, why should that be a reason to never allow him to play football again? Sure dog-fighting is bad and all but he didn't kill anybody! :looks over at Ray Lewis:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Golfcat;1003339]I don't think Vick can be MVP like Lewis.[/QUOTE]

Nothing personal, shrimpn.

I don't think he should be banned forever from the league but I think he needs to be banned for a year following his prison sentence. If someone wants to take him after taking 3 years off, go right ahead.

[QUOTE=Golfcat;1125405]Nothing personal, shrimpn.[/QUOTE]

Of course not. This is a discussion forum, right? I respect and value both (all) of your opinions.

FUCK PETRINO!!!!!

[QUOTE=alex cassun;1125408]I don't think he should be banned forever from the league but I think he needs to be banned for a year following his prison sentence. If someone wants to take him after taking 3 years off, go right ahead.[/QUOTE]It would be a sight to see.

What would be a sight to see?