London Explosions

[QUOTE=Ozymandias]Well sure, we were just defending ourselves [Fun Fact :Germany declared war on America, not the other way around as is commonly assumed. Use that the next time some red-faced yahoo tries to excuse our serial-killer foreign policy by saying "Well then why did we invade Germany?"]. But, nevertheless, we saved their asses in the process, like how the French helped us win our independence even though they only did it to get revenge on the British.
Bitches should've told us how ridiculous we were being like a real friend would do.[/QUOTE]

Fun fact?? Dude, what kind of yahoos do you hang out with? Everyone knows that.

[QUOTE=Cindy Weston]I feel outraged by both the bombings in London and by those of you who assume that terrorists that did this come from the middle east. Do none of you remember the Oaklahoma City Bombing? That was no Middle eastern terrorist. That was an American! An American was able to devastate our country as bad as any middle eastern.
Right now our energies need to go to the familes in London, not to blaming unknown people.[/QUOTE]
hey now, don't jump the gun here: as anne coultier has said (which of course makes it the truth): not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims.

Don't bite Cindy. Just spit in his chili at the meet up

[QUOTE=mirkah]Fun fact?? Dude, what kind of yahoos do you hang out with? Everyone knows that.[/QUOTE]
Every single argument I've ever been involved in/listened to always ended up with someone claiming that we declared war on Germany because Hitler had to be stopped, and thus other wars are cool too. If there was poll taken of random people, I can guarantee a majoirity would think we declared war on Germany in WWII
The history books/documentaries are so focused on our "bravery" that people tend to get the impression that we were stepping in to stop evil, instead of defending ourselves.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]hey now, don't jump the gun here: as anne coultier has said (which of course makes it the truth): not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims.[/QUOTE]
I spit poison, Alex.

We have terrorists [I]Everywhere[/I]! Even in our own military.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias]Every single argument I've ever been involved in/listened to always ended up with someone claiming that we declared war on Germany because Hitler had to be stopped, and thus other wars are cool too. If there was poll taken of random people, I can guarantee a majoirity would think we declared war on Germany in WWII
The history books/documentaries are so focused on our "bravery" that people tend to get the impression that we were stepping in to stop evil, instead of defending ourselves..[/QUOTE]

I repeat, what kind of yahoos do you hang out with?? (feel free to substitute "hang out with" for 'argument with")

[QUOTE=Atomos]what part of "islamic extremist group claims responsibility" does your tiny canadian brain not understand[/QUOTE]

What part of the collective British protective institutions stating during their press conference there is no proof aside from some random internet post (and we all know the validity of internet postings), but that they are not ruling anything out at this point, did [I][B]you[/B][/I] not comprehend?

[QUOTE=FuzzBusta]What part of the collective British protective institutions stating during their press conference there is no proof aside from some random internet post (and we all know the validity of internet postings), but that they are not ruling anything out at this point, did [I][B]you[/B][/I] not comprehend?[/QUOTE]
do you expect them to hold a press conference, dumbfuck?
most everything al quaida has done has been varified either online or by THEIR media.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]you can't fight anger with anger, it perpetuates and feeds on itself. I openly protest this war and every lie it stands for (which doesn't mean I don't support the troops). a friend died in this fake circus, and when I talk to the dead friend's wife I can't tell her what he died for.

I pray to whatever gods there are that Bush wont use London as a method to fuel his bullshit argument of "WAr on TErrOR." you want a war on terror bushy, why don't you look closer to home?[/QUOTE]
I completely agree that evil begets evil. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like to have this sort of burden from that angle. 99% of politicians and political viewpoints aren't even concentrating on our own issues. Our noses are shoved into the shit by the hand of politics, and we get to take it all in. It's up to us to decide if the shit smells good or not, regardless of what the hand tells us.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]It's a franchise operation.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is. Fucked up that it goes like that, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]so they raise the threat level to orange with Polka Dots.
And Papa Rummy and Bushy blame the three headed demon dog with sixteen circumcised pricks called "WOT"[/QUOTE]
Flip that "W" upside down, toss in an "O", look at it from the adjective standpoint, and you've got yourself the real "WOT"

Mankind is running thin on it's last chance, and when we reach the end of that chance, the truth will come out, one way or another. Fucked up that it goes like that, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Atomos]do you expect them to hold a press conference, dumbfuck?
most everything al quaida has done has been varified either online or by THEIR media.[/QUOTE]

There is no other backing proof as their has been in the past tying this to any al-Qaeda activity. A single claim, with no other electron trail other than that.

Madrid bombings? HUGE amount of data backing it up that aQ was in fact the perpetrator. Claims on various message boards, detailed information, assorted media backing, emails, tracked phone calls, text messages, etc. Bali? Yup, same deal. Do I need to keep going?

No I don't expect them to hold a press conference. They do enough work across the net that it wouldn't be necessary. The name of the organization itself is enough to make me skeptical, as it does not coordinate with any other group in Britain or Europe, so why start a new one? And hey, plagarism exists in the terrorist world too! Amazing eh? Plenty of bombings in Israel have been claimed by one group but later been proven to be another, and elsewhere around the world.

Find me proof aside from this single claim. As was said before, there are plenty of other homegrown psychos and other assorted pro/anti-whatever out there that we need not point the finger at al-Qaeda every damn time just because it's the easy thing to do.

indeed there are a good amount of hometown hereos these days (im being very sarcastic) but this fits alquida profiles. the only other group in the world (that i can think of) known for mass coriographed bombings works in ireland. besides most of our home made mad bombers go after abortion clinics

[QUOTE=Atomos]indeed there are a good amount of hometown hereos these days (im being very sarcastic) but this fits alquida profiles. the only other group in the world (that i can think of) known for mass coriographed bombings works in ireland. besides most of our home made mad bombers go after abortion clinics[/QUOTE]

Ex-military groups, militia, etc are known for coordinated strikes, but nothing of this caliber. Yes it does scream al-Qaeda, but given their relative quiet attitude towards the west lately, and their focus on Iraq, this just seems off. If a splinter group wants to CLAIM to be on behalf of aQ, fine. But until I see the paper trail of cashed checks to pay for expenses from whoever decided to fund this, I'm keeping an open mind about this.

i'm pretty sure it was the queers--i mean, after what they did to our soil, you don't know what they'll stop at.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]i'm pretty sure it was the queers--i mean, after what they did to our soil, you don't know what they'll stop at.[/QUOTE]

Oh god you're right! How could we all forget about those damn queers? Well this just kills any chances they had at getting that marriage baloney passed!

you'd think they'd be wise enough to know this would be counter productive, but after so many years of being held down by Teh Man, I can imagine that they're just good and fed up.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias]Well sure, we were just defending ourselves [Phun Phact :Germany declared war on America, not the other way around as is commonly assumed. Use that the next time some red-faced yahoo tries to excuse our serial-killer foreign policy by saying "Well then why did we invade Germany?"]. But, nevertheless, we saved their asses in the process, like how the French helped us win our independence even though they only did it to get revenge on the British.
Bitches should've told us how ridiculous we were being like a real friend would do.[/QUOTE]

We didn't save the French out of any more nobility than our failed attempt to save the South Vietnamese. Saying that we saved their asses sixty years ago makes almost as much sense as Civil War re-enactments. For that matter, why not hate the U.K. over winning every battle but New Orleans in the War of 1812 and sacking the capital?

As far as the 'defending ourselves' part goes, you could make that case for Afghanistan, though the Taliban was the spawn of our funding/advising/training of the Muhajadeen, then turning our backs on them like they'd find nothing else to do once the Soviets were gone. A lot of our problems in the Middle East can be traced back to the unquestioning bipartisan backing of Israel no matter how many Palestinians get murdered, displaced or otherwise mistreated. Our money, our hardware, who would you hate if you were on the receiving end of a helicopter gunship on account of your nationality and religion?

But I said everything I wanted in my [URL=http://midwestrocklobster.blogspot.com/2005/07/war-on-reason.html]blog[/URL], so I'll just pimp that and let it go.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]i'm pretty sure it was the queers--i mean, after what they did to our soil, you don't know what they'll stop at.[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't do this if Nixon was in the White House...

Try to beat this statement:

"Had it not been for the U.S. invasion of Iraq, London would have not been bombed this past thursday"

ps. Terrorists + Govts = all suck. I want to move you both to Mars and let you all kill each other while the rest of us play soccer.

[QUOTE=Eq]I
Flip that "W" upside down, toss in an "O", look at it from the adjective standpoint, and you've got yourself the real "WOT"
[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with you if i could follow the acronym.
MOOT?
MOTO?

NATO?

[QUOTE=Cindy Weston]I feel outraged by both the bombings in London and by those of you who assume that terrorists that did this come from the middle east. Do none of you remember the Oaklahoma City Bombing? That was no Middle eastern terrorist. That was an American! An American was able to devastate our country as bad as any middle eastern.
Right now our energies need to go to the familes in London, not to blaming unknown people.[/QUOTE]
The IRA isn't big on targeting civialians.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]I'd agree with you if i could follow the acronym.
MOOT?
MOTO?

NATO?[/QUOTE]
Are you saying all of those possibilities are applicable? Or agreeing for the sake of agreeing?

You were right the first time, this whole charade is excruciatingly questionable.

london folk rule.
one guy on the news was being interviewed with blood running down his neck debating whether he should go to work or not - that, my friends, is fucking cool.

"Police, who have made no arrests, said they were looking for no specific individuals and the bombs were made of high explosive, not home-made materials.

A third Islamist group claimed responsibility for the blasts, which government ministers said bore the hallmarks of the Islamic militant al Qaeda network which was behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States."

HE, not home made, plus the coordination would suggest an organized group, if not Al Qaeda, then certainly something the Brits have seen before and are on their radar.

Not the IRA, doesn't sound like the IRA, they usually try and kill soldiers, police and politicians rather then random strangers.

I suppose it could be some very well motivated soccer hooligans, but they'd have to smarter than you average soccer hooligan and probably a lot more sober.

[QUOTE=Eq]Are you saying all of those possibilities are applicable? Or agreeing for the sake of agreeing?

You were right the first time, this whole charade is excruciatingly questionable.[/QUOTE]
no, I was being strait forward because I don't know what MOOT is unless your talking about European moot court.

PS:
Are You who i think YOU are?

If so: Hi (waves)
If not: Welcome (hugs)

[QUOTE=Zaki]Try to beat this statement:

"Had it not been for the U.S. invasion of Iraq, London would have not been bombed this past thursday"

ps. Terrorists + Govts = all suck. I want to move you both to Mars and let you all kill each other while the rest of us play soccer.[/QUOTE]

I don't know whether London would have escaped bombing if the U.S. had not invaded Iraq. Al Queda was on the offensive for at least 12 years prior to that, and probably started networking befre the Soviet pullout was complete in Afghanistan.

The focal point of the hatred is Israel. The PLO hasn't had the network and tools to put together actions that far from home, but with some Saudi funding, the shelter of the Taliban (those good old Muhajadeen), and the indulgence of the U.S., especially during the Clinton regime, a network capable of 9/11 became possible. Now that some of their obvious financing sources have been clipped and the Taliban is no longer providing a safe haven country, it's unlikely Al Queda could pull of another 9/11 scale attack.

But all a cell in London had to do was look at the good times the IRA had. It takes a remarkably small number of 'committed' people to pull this kind of attack off. If you can do it without suicide bombers, you can probably even get a few extra recruits. If you use suicide bombers, there's fewer potential snitches after the fact, so the rest of the cell may be able to continue to the next attack.

I don't think a policy should be built around a single attack or even a cluster of them. These things are complex, and the thing to do while trying to thwart additional attacks is to look at root causes (like the million-plus Palestinians who really have nothing to lose and know very well who's aiding and abetting the Israeli terror machine).

The invasion of Iraq was a mistake to be sure, but one we probably have to ride out. It's not the cause of the attacks in London, just the excuse. When the first Trade Center bomb went off, don't forget, it wasn't long after Bush One had decided against invading Iraq, an Iraq that definitely had WMDs. WMDs they spent on Kurdish and Shiite resistance we had encouraged but never supported.

Time and again we ignored the attacks, so they got bigger and bolder. The fact that this was a small scale attack compared to Kenya/Tanzania or 9/11 would indicate Al Queda doesn't have the means to bring off something as spectacular and symbolic. Which doesn't mean they won't continue to be assholes and inflict what harm they can.

I think it's also important to keep in mind that there are interests that want a big military machine using the goods and services of the 'military industrial complex.' They're not going to go away and just pine for the good old says of the Cold War. The occupation of Iraq is exactly what these interests need, just as Korea and Vietnam was needed to juice up the Cold War and make it a profitable use of conventional weapons.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]no, I was being strait forward because I don't know what MOOT is unless your talking about European moot court.

PS:
Are You who i think YOU are?

If so: Hi (waves)
If not: Welcome (hugs)[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that, I was getting into the moment tossing words around, I simply meant the whole ordeal is questionable. From the very beginning, politics have been the cause and effect. I used to be pretty zealous about my stand on this issue, it faded over time and now this is getting my blood pumping again.

IRT PS: Doubt it

[url]http://www.warrenellis.com/index.php?p=971[/url]

Nice. Tougher than nails and spitting fire.

[QUOTE=Eq]Nice. Tougher than nails and spitting fire.[/QUOTE]
Fookin' A right!

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]Riddle Gimp if you see this please post. .[/QUOTE]

Hey dude, sorry I didn't post earlier, only just seen this thread - thanks for the concern.

Been a pretty weird couple of days here. I had a mate who was on the train next to the Edgeware rd blast - he says he felt the shockwaves. That shit me up a little.

Was on the tube on Friday - that was a hell of a sombre atmosphere. Bizarrely it seems to be making Londoners finally make some eye contact on public transport - even if it is in a suspicious kinda way.

Anyway - grim times, but life goes on.

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Hey dude, sorry I didn't post earlier, only just seen this thread - thanks for the concern.

Been a pretty weird couple of days here. I had a mate who was on the train next to the Edgeware rd blast - he says he felt the shockwaves. That shit me up a little.

Was on the tube on Friday - that was a hell of a sombre atmosphere. Bizarrely it seems to be making Londoners finally make some eye contact on public transport - even if it is in a suspicious kinda way.

Anyway - grim times, but life goes on.[/QUOTE]

"And relief washes over me in an awesome wave."

Good to hear you cool Gimp.

I just found out today that a girl from my college who worked in London died in one of the explosions.

thank god my dad was already at the office before rush-hour. Had a few other scares (concerning some friends whereabouts), but everyone I know was luckily fine and managed to get out safely.
I didn't hear about it until midday (as I was abroad with no tv).
One of the girls I was holidaying with phoned her brother who's an ITN news correspondent (he did coverage in Iraq etc) and he did a good report on it all in the evening (big village search for a tv). Seemingly my friend's sister was on the top of the tube escalators just as one of the bombs were going off and she could see the flames rising up.

As it has already been said, life goes on. Having said that, when i'm in the city studying in september, I will be buying a bike (for financial and athletic reasons) to get from A to B.

[QUOTE=SnowWhite]thank god my dad was already at the office before rush-hour. Had a few other scares (concerning some friends whereabouts), but everyone I know was luckily fine and managed to get out safely.
I didn't hear about it until midday (as I was abroad with no tv).
One of the girls I was holidaying with phoned her brother who's an ITN news correspondent (he did coverage in Iraq etc) and he did a good report on it all in the evening (which we managed to watch). Seemingly my friend's sister was on the top of the tube escalators just as one of the bombs were going off and she could see the flames.

As it has already been said, life goes on. Having said that, when i'm in the city studying in september, I will be buying a bike (for financial and athletic reasons) to get from A to B.[/QUOTE]

thats giving them exactly what they want. fuck em! let them know you're not afraid of their pussy bombs. if we are too afraid to use the transport service we have every right to use freely we are only letting them win.
to hell with them, i say. i'll continue travelling around london as i always have done and i'm not going to be scared of those bastards antics.

respect to the london folk for handling it like they did. it's a tragedy but people have to show they aren't going to have their freedoms taken away by fucking extremists.

glad everyone you know is ok <333

[QUOTE=188416]thats giving them exactly what they want. fuck em! let them know you're not afraid of their pussy bombs. if we are too afraid to use the transport service we have every right to use freely we are only letting them win.
to hell with them, i say. i'll continue travelling around london as i always have done and i'm not going to be scared of those bastards antics.

respect to the london folk for handling it like they did. it's a tragedy but people have to show they aren't going to have their freedoms taken away by fucking extremists.

glad everyone you know is ok <333[/QUOTE]
I'm giving myself what I want: I need the exercise and will be fucking poor from living in London and being a student. I fucking hate paying all that money for the tubes (incidentally does anyone have an Oyster card?) and buses are unreliable. I'll use buses if I get a bike puncture.

fair play. way it was worded...fuck it. enjoy your bike. i prefer skates <3

" I will be buying a bike (for financial and athletic reasons) to get from A to B."

Logistically, there's no lane for rollerskates, although it is a cute idea.

whoa. ok its too early for me. i'm missing words....

it's fucking 1pm! ok, i'm just stupid. <3

To give some idea how out of proportion reporting gets, I had to scrounge to find [URL=http://us.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/07/12/pakistan.trainsmash/]this.[/URL] If you surf about, you'll find varying death tolls, CNN (the link I gave) has it at 133, I've seen figures as low as 108 and as high as 200, but in any case it was a three train collision that killed more people than the four bombs in London.

I'm not trying to diminish the London bombings, I just think it's telling that if the people killed are brown, the (Western) press doesn't pay much mind to it.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]To give some idea how out of proportion reporting gets, I had to scrounge to find [URL=http://us.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/07/12/pakistan.trainsmash/]this.[/URL] If you surf about, you'll find varying death tolls, CNN (the link I gave) has it at 133, I've seen figures as low as 108 and as high as 200, but in any case it was a three train collision that killed more people than the four bombs in London.

I'm not trying to diminish the London bombings, I just think it's telling that if the people killed are brown, the (Western) press doesn't pay much mind to it.[/QUOTE]

I've lived in, am planning to live in again and have very strong ties to London - so the bombings have had a pretty strong effect on me, but you're right.

An example of the imbalance:

Official reports put number of Iraqi civilian dead at 25,000 of which 37% were directly attributable to US and coalition forces.

[URL=http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1531742,00.html]http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1531742,00.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]I've lived in, am planning to live in again and have very strong ties to London - so the bombings have had a pretty strong effect on me, but you're right.

An example of the imbalance:

Official reports put number of Iraqi civilian dead at 25,000 of which 37% were directly attributable to US and coalition forces.

[URL=http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1531742,00.html]http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1531742,00.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

I guess the one distinction, to me, with the attack on Iraq (and I'm NOT defending the invasion), is that the combination of night warfare and precision weapons was designed to minimize the death toll. Smart Iraqis, weather supporters/employees of the regime or not, who were smart enough to stay out of government buildings at night had a fair chance at surviving the attack. That wasn't true when the U.S. firebombed Dresden or Hamburg. It was also not true when we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So I'm not touting the nobility of our warfare so much as noting that there's a difference between an attempt to maximize the death toll and civilian impact (as is always the case in small terrorist strikes), and an overt military action announced in advance and carried out according to a stated plan.

If Saddam had been sitting on nukes, I'd even say the invasion was justified. But just unseating him and occupying the country because he was an intolerable shit, well, where do you end that game? Better get ready to invade at least 70 countries next week.

But in any case, I think it's cute that Westerners wag their fingers at Al Jazeera for not being objective and fair. Our press ignores, say, the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge or genocide in Rwanda while whining about four dozen dead and a disruption of traffic if it's white people being killed. That's fair and balanced?

This is unbelievable.

I'm listening to eye-witness reports that bombers tried to strike again, the detonators failed and they chased them out of the station.

3 tube trains and a bus again.

It has very nearly just happened again. But this time - we might have caught the fuckers

I think it's time for some good old english propaganda to keep our patriotic spirits high.
[img]http://www.visco.de/vscholz/Texte/Churchill.gif[/img]

Good ol' Churchill. He'd reduce all terrorists to tears with a stern talking to.

So what's this I'm hearing about a repeat attack? I'm heating multiple stories. On one hand I hear that another bomb has gone off in a tube station and on the other I hear they acted in time and prevented a repeated shit storm.

[QUOTE=Earthbound]Good ol' Churchill. He'd reduce all terrorists to tears with a stern talking to.

So what's this I'm hearing about a repeat attack? I'm heating multiple stories. On one hand I hear that another bomb has gone off in a tube station and on the other I hear they acted in time and prevented a repeated shit storm.[/QUOTE]

4 attempted explosions. 3 tubes, 1 bus. Exactly as two weeks last thurs.

Didn't work!

We might have caught the fuckers in the act

Their lack of creativity will be their undoing.

Damn. The plot thickens:

One injury reported: Apparently it's one of the attempted bombers.

The question is.....how do you prevent some demented twisted person from killing people who is willing to kill him/herself in the name of their god? And, let's face it, we are not any better. I get tired of seeing all of these God Bless America bumper stickers. The god I believe in does not favor one race, one creed, whatever....until people get that, I'm afraid this is going to continue.

[URL=http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-21T150647Z_01_N21600166_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BRITAIN-USA-DC.XML]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-21T150647Z_01_N21600166_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BRITAIN-USA-DC.XML[/URL]

Heh, the U.S. is starting to get paranoid now.

[QUOTE=Undertow][URL=http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-21T150647Z_01_N21600166_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BRITAIN-USA-DC.XML]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-21T150647Z_01_N21600166_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BRITAIN-USA-DC.XML[/URL]

Heh, the U.S. is starting to get paranoid now.[/QUOTE]

Dude, this was like a movie scene today...

Bombers standing with smouldering bags, bemused why they didn't go off. Commuters realising what's happening and chasing the "bombers" out of the station. Bombers hurdle the ticket barriers and escape from their various target stations. Apparently one hides out in a hospital. A memo circles to hospital staff saying "Be on the lookout for a man with wires sticking out of his top" before armed police race in. A guy is tackled by armed police at Downing Street with a backpack eerily similar to the ones used two weeks ago.

It's hard to work out why all of the bombs failed in the same way - whether they were all wired wrong or there was some kind of timing failure.

Whatever the reason - we only just escaped an almost identical attack as two weeks ago.

This is seriously unnerving.

To be hit once is a shock, to be hit once again chills the blood.

Glamorama springs to mind.