Let the Games begin! XXVIII Olympiad Athens 2004

[QUOTE=Ballerina]Did it actually say that? I seem to have missed it.[/QUOTE]
I read it on there somewhere, yeah.

[QUOTE=lofivinyl]if the winter olympics have snowboarding, the summer ones should have skateboarding.[/QUOTE]

so-called "xtreme athletes" aren't athletes. Skateboarding is NOT a sport. XGames is the stupidest invention in the history of stupid inventions... by the way, snowboarding is not a sport either. I don't care what they say. So stupid...

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]so-called "xtreme athletes" aren't athletes. Skateboarding is NOT a sport. XGames is the stupidest invention in the history of stupid inventions... by the way, snowboarding is not a sport either. I don't care what they say. So stupid...[/QUOTE]

Hey, I don't know about them being Olympic sports, but saying they are not sports at all is a little harsh. Have you ever done either? I play hockey and try to skateboard. I have had a lot harder time learning to skateboard than playing hockey, where I excelled in with no problems what-so-ever.

Oh, I would also like to add that it is a great honor for Greece to be hosting the Olympics again, but what the hell are they doing with those ugly ass mascots?

Sport: " an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition "
[url]www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn[/url]

Yes, Skateboarding is a sport. Anything that involves competitive physical activity is a sport, no matter how much you deny it because of silly prejudices.

[QUOTE=PGoutis01]Hey, I don't know about them being Olympic sports, but saying they are not sports at all is a little harsh. Have you ever done either? I play hockey and try to skateboard. I have had a lot harder time learning to skateboard than playing hockey, where I excelled in with no problems what-so-ever.

Oh, I would also like to add that it is a great honor for Greece to be hosting the Olympics again, but what the hell are they doing with those ugly ass mascots?[/QUOTE]

I bet you were a big fan of Rollerball, eh?

You know what? You're right. Roller disco should award gold medals for athletic prowess...

Just because you suck at skating doesn't men it;'s hard. It just means you lack coordination. Coordination doesn't make an athlete. People who play videogames all day have good coordination...

All I'm gonna say, is that when bowling makes the olympics, then skateboarding should make the olympics. Both considered sports, both not sports... I don't care about that stupid stone throwing ice olympic game with the brooms...

[QUOTE=Sycron]Sport: " an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition "
[url]www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn[/url]

Yes, Skateboarding is a sport. Anything that involves competitive physical activity is a sport, no matter how much you deny it because of silly prejudices.[/QUOTE]

Then sex should be in the olympics. Sex is an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition... can I get a gold medal for fucking now?

sex is a competition? HAHAHAHA THAT'S what you've been doing wrong there buddy.

"worship the Lord, not the flame"
-sign appearing outside local church

This may just be me, but I was just watching the opening ceremonies.
They actually said, "You may not know this, but it's actually Denmark that rules the shuttlecock in Europe."
I heard, "You may not know this, but it's actually Denmark that rules the cock in Europe."

Yeah, yeah, teenage boy humour. Funny though.

[QUOTE=RandomThought]This may just be me, but I was just watching the opening ceremonies.
They actually said, "You may not know this, but it's actually Denmark that rules the shuttlecock in Europe."
I heard, "You may not know this, but it's actually Denmark that rules the cock in Europe."

Yeah, yeah, teenage boy humour. Funny though.[/QUOTE]

one track mind
stop thinking about us boys!
stop tainting us with your wicked debaucherous daydreams of sin!

[QUOTE=trypdwyre]sex is a competition? HAHAHAHA THAT'S what you've been doing wrong there buddy.[/QUOTE]

of course sex is a competition. I can't believe you laugh as if it's not. It's the war of the sexes. You obviously HAVE been brainwashed. Pleasure is selfish. There is no fifty-fifty in sex. I mean, I like to give pleasure, but giving pleasure takes away from the pleasure I could be getting. Sex is a power struggle. Someone always is getting more out of it than the other person involved. That's why it's a competition. At this point, I'd usually bring up your married sex and say something about how you would know nothing about competition or sex since you gave up and said to yourself "this is the best pussy I ever have a chance of getting ever again, so I will no longer try to get better pussy" and I'm sure you are very satisfied with the pussy you have stuck your dick into a zillion times before and the pussy that has gonethrough childbirth, but childbirth changes pussy and you and I both know the same pussy gets old and childbirth changes pussy, but if I said that you'd probably get all pissy and say I broke some kind of invisible decency guidelines based on your own narrow moralistic view of the world, so I won't say that, instead, I'll just say until you have proof to the contrary that sex is not a competition, you best keep your ass shut and not say anything...

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]of course sex is a competition. I can't believe you laugh as if it's not. It's the war of the sexes. You obviously HAVE been brainwashed. Pleasure is selfish. There is no fifty-fifty in sex. I mean, I like to give pleasure, but giving pleasure takes away from the pleasure I could be getting. Sex is a power struggle. Someone always is getting more out of it than the other person involved. That's why it's a competition. At this point, I'd usually bring up your married sex and say something about how you would know nothing about competition or sex since you gave up and said to yourself "this is the best pussy I ever have a chance of getting ever again, so I will no longer try to get better pussy" and I'm sure you are very satisfied with the pussy you have stuck your dick into a zillion times before and the pussy that has gonethrough childbirth, but childbirth changes pussy and you and I both know the same pussy gets old and childbirth changes pussy, but if I said that you'd probably get all pissy and say I broke some kind of invisible decency guidelines based on your own narrow moralistic view of the world, so I won't say that, instead, I'll just say until you have proof to the contrary that sex is not a competition, you best keep your ass shut and not say anything...[/QUOTE]
the only key words you're leaving out of that whole paragraph is "for me" example:
"Pleasure is selfish [B]FOR ME[/B]. There is no fifty-fifty in sex [B]FOR ME[/B]. I mean, I like to give pleasure, but giving pleasure takes away from the pleasure I could be getting [B]FOR ME[/B]. Sex is a power struggle [B]FOR ME[/B]."

and let me note that when i got married i never once thought "this is the best pussy I ever have a chance of getting ever again, so I will no longer try to get better pussy". that wasn't an issue for me, it wasn't about sex. not everything is about sex. but we've been over that already.

[QUOTE=trypdwyre]the only key words you're leaving out of that whole paragraph is "for me" example:
"Pleasure is selfish [B]FOR ME[/B]. There is no fifty-fifty in sex [B]FOR ME[/B]. I mean, I like to give pleasure, but giving pleasure takes away from the pleasure I could be getting [B]FOR ME[/B]. Sex is a power struggle [B]FOR ME[/B]."

and let me note that when i got married i never once thought "this is the best pussy I ever have a chance of getting ever again, so I will no longer try to get better pussy". that wasn't an issue for me, it wasn't about sex. not everything is about sex. but we've been over that already.[/QUOTE]

Pleasure is selfish FOR EVERYONE. Pleasure simply cannot exist without selfishness. Don't tell me, you never orgasm when she doesn't? You never got a blowjob? That's selfishness. That's pleasure. The greater the selfishness, the greater the pleasure. It's that simple. I don't make the rules. I didn't invent pleasure being selfishness. Science maybe invented it, but not me... you got a problem with it, take it up with whatever created you...

Also, everyone who gets married gets married for the simple reason that you don't ever want to "lose" that person. Person is the same as pussy in this context. Obviously you "settled" for what you could get. It doesn't take a genius to know that if you could have done better, you would have...

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]Pleasure is selfish FOR EVERYONE. Pleasure simply cannot exist without selfishness. Don't tell me, you never orgasm when she doesn't? You never got a blowjob? That's selfishness. That's pleasure. The greater the selfishness, the greater the pleasure. It's that simple. I don't make the rules. I didn't invent pleasure being selfishness. Science maybe invented it, but not me... you got a problem with it, take it up with whatever created you...
you've yet to provide reason as to why pleasure is selfish. you've given examples of how selfishness can be pleasureful, but i get pleasure out of helping people out, that's the exact opposite of selfishness. there's an example of how pleasure can be non-selfish based. come back when you have an actual reason, not examples, of why you think pleasure is selifsh...

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]Sex is a power struggle.[/QUOTE]

Hell yes. I try to explain that to people all of the time.
Sometimes you are nearly godlike, Mr. Landers.

can someone explain the Greek alphabet?

[QUOTE=trypdwyre]you've yet to provide reason as to why pleasure is selfish. you've given examples of how selfishness can be pleasureful, but i get pleasure out of helping people out, that's the exact opposite of selfishness. there's an example of how pleasure can be non-selfish based. come back when you have an actual reason, not examples, of why you think pleasure is selifsh...

a person is not "pussy" in that context. in my case she's my wife, and much much more than a sexual object. i didn't "settle", i didn't "try to keep from losing" her. i married her because i love her. love is not synonomyous with sex or sexual gratification. it has nothing to do with "doing better" or keeping from "doing worse" it's a matter of emotion. she's the one i love. you have a hard time with the concept of love, i know this, but as i've said before, just because you don't believe it exists, doesn't make it non-existant.[/QUOTE]

an orgasm is proof, silly. there is no way that you can tell me that an orgasm IS NOT the ultimate act of selfishness... ejaculation on the other hand...

Much more than a sexual object... maybe. Still, I should hope that as your wife that she fucks you. Sex IS partof it and as such you chose one pussy for life. That means you are more than happy tonever have a pussy any better than hers no matter what, unless you cheat,and you don't seem that type... so... you settled. Simple. You all of all people can't possibly be so naive as to think "love conquers all" like some Disney fairy tale. Love is part of it, but so is sex and finance and getting along and so many other things including pussy and selfishness. I don't have a hard time with the concept of love. I have a hard time with love. Big difference...

[QUOTE=lupus]Okay people!
"Today, 13 August, the biggest celebration of the world begins at the Athens Olympic Stadium. At 20:45*, the Opening Ceremony of the ATHENS 2004 Olympic Games signals the return of the Olympic Games to the country where they were born and revived."

*GMT+2. In about 3 hours that is.

Log off and go watch it![/QUOTE]

The opening ceremonies were amazing. I loved the parade through Greece's history. It was just beautiful.

Stop hijacking my thread, you fuckers!
[QUOTE=Popcultjunkie]can someone explain the Greek alphabet?[/QUOTE]
I'd be delighted to, if only you could tell me what needs to be explained.
I have made a table with the sounds that correspond to each letter, hope that helps:

[QUOTE=mirkah]The opening ceremonies were amazing. I loved the parade through Greece's history. It was just beautiful.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I thought it was fantastic. They did a really good job. *radiates pride*

[QUOTE=lupus]Stop hijacking my thread, you fuckers!

I'd be delighted to, if only you could tell me what needs to be explained.
I have made a table with the sounds that correspond to each letter, hope that helps:[/QUOTE]

No one hijacked your thread. Me and trypd were talking about the olympics. See, the pussy is about the sex which is a sport like skateboarding and bowling and the winter olympics or something... how arethey gonna snowboard in greece? That's wierd. You guys got fake snow?

[QUOTE=lupus]
I'd be delighted to, if only you could tell me what needs to be explained.
I have made a table with the sounds that correspond to each letter, hope that helps:[/QUOTE]
I think the opening ceremonies had the countries come out in the order of the Greek alphabet, which kinda confused me. But thanks for the table.
____________________________________________
oh yeah, this pic [url=http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Sport%20Gallery/Ceremonies/13%20August%202004/1961616_b.jpg]Glow belly[/url]. I don't know why, but that was H-O-T!

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]an orgasm is proof, silly. there is no way that you can tell me that an orgasm IS NOT the ultimate act of selfishness... ejaculation on the other hand...
again, another fine example, but still just an example none-the-less.

[QUOTE=trypdwyre]again, another fine example, but still just an example none-the-less.

as i've said before, what my wife and i do in bed stays there. yes marriage is a decision, and this decision is based on many variables, sex being one of them. at the same time love isn't a variable, it encompases all the variables. the variables make up the unconscious or conscious decision of love. and as i said above, i don't think about someone in terms of "pussy" or "dick", they're a person to me, and i doubt many people think in those terms you are talking about. so, as you keep illustrating examples instead of reasons, i'll keep pointing out examples instead of reasons that are contrary to your own reasons. example: pleasure = providing a life for my family via my job (now the job's not pleasureful, but knowing i provide for them all they need is) that's far from selfish.

as for the opening ceremonies, in the past few olympics opening ceremonies they've had all one thing in common; every last opening ceremony from this year back past 10 years have had people suspended from wires "floating" or something to that effect. why is this?[/QUOTE]

first off, no one cares what you and your wife do in bed, I never said anything about specifics, and really I don't want to know, but thanks for being uptight anyway!

and dude... parenthood is the ultimate selfishness... you don't see that? Wanting someone to live on your legacy? Everytime I see a mother obsessed with their children, I think she is quite possibly the most selfish person onthe face of the planet. I mean it. I'm dead serious. It only appears to not be selfish, but it's all selfish, just like an orgasm is selfish. Think about it for a moment. You prettymuch just said that the meaning of your life is your family, right? It certainly sounds like it's the most important thing to you, anyway, so... with that said... you are using your family for gratification, which is an entirely selfish reason, you garner "pleasure"... a sense of well-being... whatever... from taking care of your family. The ultimate act of selfishness. Same as me and my preoccupation with sex. We are the same, you and I, inthat we are both extremely selfish creatures. Selfishness is not a bad thing. You have to admit I just made some good sense. I mean, you don't have to admit it, but it's there for all to see...

Anyone got a really [I]really[/I] good Olympic weblink?
I'm checking the medal counts at Yahoo and NBC, but all they say is how many medals a country won, not what they won.

Like Mongolia won a bronze, but for what?

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]dude... parenthood is the ultimate selfishness... you don't see that? Wanting someone to live on your legacy? Everytime I see a mother obsessed with their children, I think she is quite possibly the most selfish person onthe face of the planet. I mean it. I'm dead serious. It only appears to not be selfish, but it's all selfish, just like an orgasm is selfish. Think about it for a moment. You prettymuch just said that the meaning of your life is your family, right? It certainly sounds like it's the most important thing to you, anyway, so... with that said... you are using your family for gratification, which is an entirely selfish reason, you garner "pleasure"... a sense of well-being... whatever... from taking care of your family. The ultimate act of selfishness. Same as me and my preoccupation with sex. We are the same, you and I, inthat we are both extremely selfish creatures. Selfishness is not a bad thing. You have to admit I just made some good sense. I mean, you don't have to admit it, but it's there for all to see...[/QUOTE]
i'm not saying you don't make sense, you do, to a certain extent. yes, parenting can be a selfish act. CAN BE. so you think me working fulltime is selfish because it propagates my family life (which is a majority of the meaning of my life, i'm not a shut in ya' know ) which is selfish in itself? what about how i get pleasure from giving out information at my job, which takes my time and effort, and never once during this time do i bother to reflect on my paycheck. or helping out my rather eccentric aunt (who racks my nerves sometimes) with computer related troubles? there's nothing selfish in either of those things. yet i still recieve pleasure from that work, from helping out other people.

i'm not "using" my family for pleasure, to "use" them would imply intent to create them for that purpose. they provide me with pleasure, and i do them as well. it's giving and letting them give back. there's no taking, there's no act of selfishness involved in it.

[QUOTE=Popcultjunkie]Anyone got a really [I]really[/I] good Olympic weblink?
I'm checking the medal counts at Yahoo and NBC, but all they say is how many medals a country won, not what they won.

Like Mongolia won a bronze, but for what?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.athens2004.com/[/url]

it's the official site of the olympics. they have resultes listed on there, and scheduling as well.

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]No one hijacked your thread. Me and trypd were talking about the olympics. See, the pussy is about the sex which is a sport like skateboarding and bowling and the winter olympics or something... how arethey gonna snowboard in greece? That's wierd. You guys got fake snow?[/QUOTE]
Meh, you _are_ hihjacking and you know it.

As far as the snow goes, I'll let you know that we do have plenty of the real stuff in winter. We've got mountains, we've got ski resorts and all kinds of winter sports facilities, we have everything.

From the guidelines:

[list][*]If the thread starter requests that a thread be kept serious, please try to respect his/her wishes.[/list]

Thank you Brock. Please continue your discussion about Tryp's personal life elsewhere.

[QUOTE=mirkah]From the guidelines:

[list][*]If the thread starter requests that a thread be kept serious, please try to respect his/her wishes.[/list]

Thank you Brock. Please continue your discussion about Tryp's personal life elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, by why are you not addressing trypdwyre? And are you blind? No one is discussing his private life except him. I said sex should be an olympic event if skateboarding is. trypd took it to another level when he said sex was not competitive. I have been vague about his life. I asked for no specifics. I was talking merely tohim as a married man. AND I AM DEAD SERIOUS THAT SEX SHOULD BE IN THE OLYMPICS IF SKATEBOARDING SHOULD BE. DID I BRING UP SKATEBOARDING? FUCK NO. SO AS MUCH AS I LIKE YOU MIRKAH AND AS MUCH AS WE KID, GET THE FUCK OFF MY ASS IF YOU ARE GOING TO PICK ONLY ONME AND SAY NOTHING TO TRYPD WHO INSISTS ON ARGUING ABOUT HOW DUMB HE THINKS EVERY IDEA I HAVE IS. QUIT INSULTING ME MIRKAH. I WILL HAVE TO FILE A COMPLAINT IF YOU DON'T. I FUCKING MEAN IT. I DID NOTHING FUCKING WRONG, SO KISS MY ASS... AND KISS MY ASSIS NOT AN INSULT, AND WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU COME OFF TELLING ME THAT I'M FUCKING UP THE THREAD BECAUSE MY ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS OLYMPICS DISCUSSION IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE. Big letters mean the veins inmy neck are sticking out... :mad: < if you need a mental image, here you go...

[QUOTE=trypdwyre]i'm not saying you don't make sense, you do, to a certain extent. yes, parenting can be a selfish act. CAN BE. so you think me working fulltime is selfish because it propagates my family life (which is a majority of the meaning of my life, i'm not a shut in ya' know ) which is selfish in itself? what about how i get pleasure from giving out information at my job, which takes my time and effort, and never once during this time do i bother to reflect on my paycheck. or helping out my rather eccentric aunt (who racks my nerves sometimes) with computer related troubles? there's nothing selfish in either of those things. yet i still recieve pleasure from that work, from helping out other people.

i'm not "using" my family for pleasure, to "use" them would imply intent to create them for that purpose. they provide me with pleasure, and i do them as well. it's giving and letting them give back. there's no taking, there's no act of selfishness involved in it.[/QUOTE]

MIRKAH SAYS SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR FAMILY

[QUOTE=trypdwyre][url]http://www.athens2004.com/[/url]

it's the official site of the olympics. they have resultes listed on there, and scheduling as well.[/QUOTE]
ok, this site is oddly set up. to see the results of any of the events, you have to click on "Schedule - Results" and then go to the sport or day you're wanting to know about (it's in spreadsheet format) and click on any BLUE day. it'll give you news on that sport, and another chart that looks like this:

and you can click on "start list" or "results" next to any of the events listed. Results will give you what you want. No medals have been awarded yet, i don't think.

[QUOTE=lupus]On August 11th, the Olympic Games begin with football (soccer). It appears that contrary to the bad press Greece was getting - not to mention our own slightly *ahem* disorganised nature - everything is ready on time and the result is pretty damn good (the mascots, however are [i]hideous[/i]. Only the one for the Para-Olympics is cool). Athens 2004 is expected to be a huge success.

So... which ones of you are going to watch the Games? Favourite sports, athletes, predictions, etc? Discuss.

Oh. And. Visit [url]http://www.athens2004.com[/url] , the official website. :)[/QUOTE]

I'll try to watch the games. I am a big fan of the female gymnast's muscular bodies. That's my favorite sport. Female gymnast body sport. You ever seen the way they straddle that horse thing? Man... the flexibility... the tightness of the muscular buttocks... the nipples in those little leotard thingies... the Texas judge gives a 9.5!

[QUOTE=Brock Landers]Excuse me, by why are you not addressing trypdwyre? And are you blind? No one is discussing his private life except him. I said sex should be an olympic event if skateboarding is. trypd took it to another level when he said sex was not competitive. I have been vague about his life. I asked for no specifics. I was talking merely tohim as a married man. AND I AM DEAD SERIOUS THAT SEX SHOULD BE IN THE OLYMPICS IF SKATEBOARDING SHOULD BE. DID I BRING UP SKATEBOARDING? FUCK NO. SO AS MUCH AS I LIKE YOU MIRKAH AND AS MUCH AS WE KID, GET THE FUCK OFF MY ASS IF YOU ARE GOING TO PICK ONLY ONME AND SAY NOTHING TO TRYPD WHO INSISTS ON ARGUING ABOUT HOW DUMB HE THINKS EVERY IDEA I HAVE IS. QUIT INSULTING ME MIRKAH. I WILL HAVE TO FILE A COMPLAINT IF YOU DON'T. I FUCKING MEAN IT. I DID NOTHING FUCKING WRONG, SO KISS MY ASS... AND KISS MY ASSIS NOT AN INSULT, AND WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU COME OFF TELLING ME THAT I'M FUCKING UP THE THREAD BECAUSE MY ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS OLYMPICS DISCUSSION IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE. Big letters mean the veins inmy neck are sticking out... :mad: < if you need a mental image, here you go...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I didn't read the posts clearly enough. I just saw you talking about him fucking his wife and assumed you were getting too personal.

My apologies for not including Tryp in my mod post, that should have read:

"Hey guys, give Lupus her thread back. Thank you"

Hope your veins are back where they should be

Ah...a fellow gymnastic groupie. Yeah this is definetly the event that I have watched, even though I could really care less for the athleticism. I have also been trying to keep up on basketball ever since Puerto Rico (where I'm from) totally blew out the U.S.!!!! Woo hoo!

[QUOTE=Gaeasoldier]Ah...a fellow gymnastic groupie. Yeah this is definetly the event that I have watched, even though I could really care less for the athleticism. I have also been trying to keep up on basketball ever since Puerto Rico (where I'm from) totally blew out the U.S.!!!! Woo hoo![/QUOTE]

I think mostof all I like watching the profiles on the 13-year old yugoslavian gymnast refugees. Not just them either. All of the profiles on the 15 and under year old gymnasts. They are fascinating! The strife! The hardship! The teen angst! Mean parents! Too much homework! The countless hours spent practicing tumbling on mats! The sacrifice! The pain! The chalk turning their little hands all white and freakish! Their first period in a leotard! The boys they think are cute! I truly can't imagine what life would be like if I didn't watch those profiles! I thank god for little miracles like that!

this [url=http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2004/08/25/sp_usa_vball03.jpg]pic[/url] is HOTNESS. yeah yeah..two women celebrating..so what..but look at that..don't deny the HOTNESS..

[QUOTE=lupus]Meh, you _are_ hihjacking and you know it.

As far as the snow goes, I'll let you know that we do have plenty of the real stuff in winter. We've got mountains, we've got ski resorts and all kinds of winter sports facilities, we have everything.[/QUOTE]

I found a beautiful picture of that Alexander statue you showed me, buried in snow. I have to pick up the book it was in, Alexander the Conqueror. Sort of a simplified version of Alexander's reign.

^ Now that's off-topic.

[QUOTE=lupus]Stop hijacking my thread, you fuckers!

I'd be delighted to, if only you could tell me what needs to be explained.
I have made a table with the sounds that correspond to each letter, hope that helps:[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the Alphabet and the Phonetics, Loop. I copied it to my Favorites.

[QUOTE=Popcultjunkie]^ Now that's off-topic. ;)[/QUOTE]

Nah. The statue's in Macedonia, where Loop lives, and apparently it snows.

[QUOTE=owenwarland]Nah. The statue's in Macedonia, where Loop lives, and apparently it snows.[/QUOTE]
pshhhh...teachers...always interested in the facts, never the racks...

[QUOTE=owenwarland]I found a beautiful picture of that Alexander statue you showed me, buried in snow. I have to pick up the book it was in, Alexander the Conqueror. Sort of a simplified version of Alexander's reign.[/QUOTE]

I always thought it was Alexander the Great and William the Conquerer and Genghis the Khan and Jesus the Nazareth and Conan the Barbarian? What gives?

[URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=10&u=/ap/20040828/ap_on_en_tv/mtv_video_music_awards_7]Paul Hamm and Carly Patterson ditch Greece for MTV-Miami[/URL]

I didn't watch any coverage on Saturday. The closing day ceremonies are Sunday, right?

Incidentally, after all the drama for nearly 2 weeks, I find it hard to get my excitement up for a bicycle race.

yup, it's later on today....
don't tell lofivinyl that last part you said..