Illegals Legalized?
[url=http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-illegal08.html]Bush: Let illegal aliens work in U.S.[/url]
Bush is trying to pass a law that would give temporary visas to illegal immigrants who can show that they have a job or job offer in the US.
opposing poitns:
Allowing undocumented workers, who make up an unknown percentage of the around 8 million illegal immigrants now in the United States, to work legally here would benefit all Americans, Bush argued. He said it would make the nation's borders more secure by allowing officials to focus more on the real threats to the country and would meet U.S. employers' dire need for workers willing to take the low-wage, low-skill jobs unwanted by many Americans.
vs.
''I'm not for allowing illegals to stay in this country,'' said Rep. Virgil Goode (R-Va.). ''I think they should have to go back to their home countries ... and get in line with Jack, Suzy and John and apply for a guest worker position.''
part of me wants to say that this would only encourage more boarder hopping, and another part of me just thinks, why should it matter, they're already here, it just gives them some protection.
thoughts?
if theyre illegal immigrants they should not be here...
so here i go...
i'm haLf the way to home...
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but can you really blame them for coming here? if it was me, i was living down in mexico, earning about $2.34 US per hour in 2001, you bet i'll be hopping the boarder to make probably less than minimum wage, but they do make more than $2.34 US. most of them come here, get a job and send the rest of the money back to their families.
i'm just saying, from their POV, it's a good thing.
definitely
i cant really add or argue
so here i go...
i'm haLf the way to home...
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I'm surprised Bush didn't declare a war on illegal immigration.
He's pandering to the Hispanic vote. But if pandering gives some people protection who need it then so be it. Immigration Reform is logical because our current policy isn't working.
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." Albert Einstein
.JPG "mugwump's picture")
Bush is a cock sucker, but this is good for the immigrants who need the work in america.
Assholes usually do the right thing for the wrong reasonl like Nixon creating the 1970 Clean Air act, to garner some sway with the environmentalists.
What?
but do you think this might encourage more boarder hopping, or even possibly make mexico the entry point of so many other nations trying to sneak into the US?
Mug and Gonzo brought up a very good point, that so many things in politics have come about because of a political leader just trying to grab a few more votes.
i don't know enough about this topic to say anything for sure...
i don't see what justifies them being here. i mean, like Virgil said - they should get in line with the rest of the people who want to work here. i don't really see what's so unfair about that. but like i said - i'm not familiar with the process or what's involved in getting across the border legally - so i can't really make an informed decision regarding this.
you're right xk3, there's a whole lot more to it than just a vote. unfortunately, it seems that the vote is the main thing that behooved bush to attempt to pass this bill.
and you've definately said some good points there. even though they'll do the jobs most people don't want to, a lot of people don't see why that is a good thing, especially seeing that america has unemployed persons of their own who are desperate for jobs to begin with. when someone's here illegally, and working, that takes jobs away from those people here legally, and are trying to get a job to sustain their life.
the cuban policy isn't just that simple. they set foot on american soil and they are allowed to apply for a us residency. while their application is being processed, they are allowed to stay in the country. that doesn't mean that they just are automatically allowed in. the cuban policy was put into effect for a reason, nothing remotely resembling what has happened in cuba is going on in mexico.
really this has little to no benefits for americans, or for our government, and does mostly just serve to garner bush some more votes in the upcoming election.
again, you do bring up valid points.
it is true that the companies [i]choose[/i] to employ immigrants at a cheaper cost. and yes there are thousands, if not more, illegal immigrants. but those are not things i'm disputing. i'm saying that for every job an illegal immigrant has, that's another possible job for a legal citizen out the window. i'm not disputing that the company is in the wrong for this, but because we can put some of the blame on the company does not excuse the fact that illegals working in the US cuts back on legals possibility for employment.
about the cubans you said "if he touches U.S. soil he gets to stay, legally" which isn't true. they get to stay, sure, until their application has been approved or turned down. and you mentioned the number of illegals from mexico in the US, the reason the US is more lax with the cuban policy is that we don't share a boarder with cuba, and there aren't hundreds attempting to cross the boarders from cuba on a daily basis.
people are fighting this because what does america get out of this? nothing. business get cheap illegal labor, sure, but like it says, it's illegal. they did a raid on wal-mart in the past year, and deported illegals working there, and are penalizing wal-mart for knowingly employing illegals.
i am still unsure if i support this bill yet. something about it doesn't seem to fit very well. after so many years of trying to combat boarder hopping, they just decide to make legal everyone who's working here illegally? is bush getting kick-backs from wal-mart? what does the US benefit from all of this?
you're right, you do have something to bring to this discussion, and i appreciate it.
but what you're talking about isn't beneficial to the whole of america. sure it benefits those comapnies who are willing to hire illegals. now it gives every company a way to have even cheaper labor. this doing this all they have to do is agree to hire someone from mexico, and lay off the people they already have. it beast having temps do the job, which was a bit of a scare when that trend first started. i'm sorry you and i don't agree on this, but please, don't attempt to say that i haven't read up on this, and that i'm not aware of how it impacts american economy. i only see this as a way of allowing business to hire cheaper labor to do jobs that our own people could do. more companies won't come out of this, just a higher rate of unemployment. and the taxes the gov't will gain out of this will all be lost in the big hole that is welfare.
i forgot to add in my last post, yes, i'd rather have people in this country who are willing to work for their keep than people who subside on welfare and don't attempt to achieve anything better. but again, that's neither here nor there.
oh, and i'm not talking about commonwealths, that is another subject that really isn't all that relevant to this line of discussion. i'd be more than willing to talk about commonwealths with you if you want to start a thread about it.
and one other thing i forgot to add in reference to this
"You definetly don't read international papers. Bush already has an agreement with Mexico. He already said yes. All this bill is doing is getting approved, bieng sold, probably passed."
i don't care what "agreement" bush has with mexico. the bill would make it legal, meaning whatever understanding or agreement he has with mexico isn't exactly legal yet.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Xk3zofrenik [/i]
[B]You can bet it will be. He has an agreement, he will make it legal. Mr. President is not the legal type is he?
The bill is there because there is already protests in mexico because of the agreement. This issue is bigger than winning the hispanic vote.
Besides Mr. I was governor of Texas knows how to profit from hispanic and knows the numbers are increasing, adding to the vote element. [/B][/QUOTE]
i'm sure he'll push it with all his might, it's about his only chance of taking the next election.
but as of yet, it's just a proposal, it still has to get past so many other people, we'll see what they think...
you really think that this is going to make or break him... honestly I don't see us not having Bush as our president next year... I would like to think that someone could beat him, but everday I lose more and more hope... I just don't think Dean is a Bush killer
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PoetryWrittenInGasoline [/i]
[B]you really think that this is going to make or break him... honestly I don't see us not having Bush as our president next year... I would like to think that someone could beat him, but everday I lose more and more hope... I just don't think Dean is a Bush killer [/B][/QUOTE]
no, i really can't see bush being re-elected. but this would be his only big vote base coming in.
actually, i see it as a bad thing for his re-election. many americans don't want to see illegals legalized, many view it as a threat to their own job. so i can eaily see that backfiring on him.
I hate Gore for not running again
sorry i got off topic
i try to keep some hope alive that democracy, though flawed, can work out if people do their jobs, and stop worrying about their asses and their votes.
where's the incentive for them to do this, though? cos it's 'right'? that's never been much of a motivator.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]where's the incentive for them to do this, though? cos it's 'right'? that's never been much of a motivator. [/B][/QUOTE]
you're right, we have to motivate our presidential candidates to do their job properly. let me get my pom-poms, meet you on the white house lawn.
i'm know you're just being the devil's advocate here disx. unfortunately it's 100% on the mark. and i just don't know how to respond to that. i guess THE OFFICE is my next stop, get me a nice $400,000.00 paycheck while i sex me up some interns in the oval office...
WE should invade Mexico and make it into a resort. We could fix it! We fixed Times Square! The Mexico I dream of is the new Flordia.....
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Lazlosdead/completeLazloSig.jpg[/IMG]
Someone at work brought up an interesting point when we were discussing this: would legalizing them mean they would now pay income tax? Because that might be a secondary motivation of Bush's, besides the hispanic vote....
yes, temporary visa holders are considered to be "resident aliens" and are taxes on their worldwide income, not just what they make in the US if they have other jobs across any boarders.
but i highly dobut that plays into bush's interest considering these resident aliens are considered to be holding the lowest paying jobs in the states. meaning that the taxes collected from them probably won't amount to enough to make a difference.
great question though.
im not sure,
but my first reaction was what the fuck
and NO
so here i go...
i'm haLf the way to home...
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