Hitler memorial in Wisconsin?

Yeah, I hate one sided views of faccist dictators who believed in genocide and racism.

When is genocide and racism ok? Oh, yeah, NEVER.

But we as a global community know how to turn the other cheek when it still happens.

[QUOTE=bassplr19]When is genocide and racism ok? Oh, yeah, NEVER.

But we as a global community know how to turn the other cheek when it still happens.[/QUOTE]
correct.
i think you and i are pretty much in agreement that genocide is very immoral, so i'll focus on what this fuckjapan character is saying.
[QUOTE]I realy dont see what the problem is with this. The westernized view of germany in world war two is very one sided and the remarks posted in this thread somewhat proves that. [/QUOTE]
yes, the westernized view of germany in world war two is very one sided. yes, the majority of posters in this thread seem to agree about the evils of Hitler. but bear in mind that the Holocaust happened less than 70 years ago, and that the eponymous "Hitler Memorial in Wisconsin" is in... Wiconsin...... which is in AMERICA, which not even 70 years ago was fighting Hitler. it's just irritating to hear people say things like: [QUOTE]The creator of this monument is a piece of history and is trying to share this with anyone who is interested.[/QUOTE]
you know why? let's be realistic - this "monument" is probably [I]not [/I]going to start another world war. it's probably [I]not [/I]going to convince anyone to love Hitler unless they already love him. and no, it's [I]not [/I]really a big deal when you consider what the old man could be doing instead of just setting up a memorial. but the point is he's doing it in the USA, where people are more than likely to frown upon his actions, no matter what the first amendment says. when i was at school i knew a fifteen year old kid who read Mein Kampf. that's not cool, in my opinion; and it made us feel a bit uncomfortable to live in the room next to his. that's the problem, fuckjapan, the only real and direct, non-philosophical problem: it makes people uncomfortable. just as some people nowadays tend to fear strict Muslims living in their neighbourhood. maybe the old man is harmless or senile or both. who cares?
he's doing something that makes the people around him, and by extension most of the people on this thread, uncomfortable. that's what the article seems to be primarily about. that's why the people are complaining. few of us actually know much about Hitler except what we were taught in school. he DID do some good things for Germany. as a leader he wasn't ALL bad. maybe he does deserve some credit on certain levels. but there's giving him credit and then there's setting up a memorial to honour a man who brought about one of the bloodiest and most indecent wars in history. it shouldn't come to you as a surprise that people are complaining.

[QUOTE=bassplr19]I think this is more of a valid reason than they were exterminated, along with the fact that they partially own Hollywood. There have been many other genocides since, so it's not like anyone learned from it, at least not in a good sense. .[/QUOTE]
We learned. and we paid a price for that knowledge . .

bass, youre a bright person, and i do see many of the sides from which youve contrived many parts of your emotional responses, but im also blown away because you are [i]normally[/i] a bright person. i really dont know anything about you, not ethnically speaking, i mean, so i dont know from where these ethics have derived, but man . .i had to save this webpage for this long in order to just not lose my temper and blast incoherently for ev er..

..we learned from our dead, and from those we’ve killed. Do you remember that little nothing part of american history, hiroshima ? you know, that part where we had to kill one hundred thousand people in the blink of an eye as a thank you note for getting us into the second world war ? helleva note for a helleva party. it was a nec response for pearl harbor, which is what got us into the war against germany in the first place. too bad it took so long. all of the atrocity, whole tv advertisements about the rat scum jews, the waste of life that had to be purified with humiliation and ultimate death after enough torture became less fun. i mean, a worse representation of the de-value of human life than the black americans of not so distant times where they would have parties for the lynchings, little kids spitting on and cursing grown men and women, those same kids buying still wet severed ears from venders; or even a few years before that, when men would ride through the countryside showing their worth with necklaces made of an indian's dried fingers. we learn from the dead, those we kill and those we lose. they talk to us in our sleep, hold us, bind us to what we learn.

How long did we watch, the jews in camps, the propaganda, the burnings. much of it was kept as country secret, but the rest of the world knew. we, all of us, watched. and did nothing. not our problem, not our place, we have no right. . no, it was the treaties, it was diplomacy, this is why so many failed to act when the honesty went scrawling across the tv screen and electrifying us in our nightly dreams.

It wasn’t that we did not act because we failed to care; it was that we did not act because we had no right to invade on another country’s politics. We were a damn shame. Thank god japan knocked some sense into us. They bombed pearl harbor to get us into the war. They allowed us to act, to fight for human life, both foreign and domestic ! The american motto is not the land of opportunity for any other reason than that your god given gift is the pursuit of happiness. It is not mcdonalds commercials or gap, or to become an internet billionaire. It is a right that we value and we will not allow again treaties to come before the measure of human rights. This is a large little world and mistakes were made and mistakes will continue to be made. History will show our value as humans. The point is that we don’t forget the dead, we do not desecrate those who suffered. We fight passed losing fingers and wet ears, we fight for those not able to fight for themselves. We should all of us be world police if we are to live together, to protect the dreams so that all of us may preserve the right to live and feel protection for our families and loved ones. Hitler was a patriot to his country, held by the blood of the innocent that unfortunately got in his way, most of which we families with children with dreams - a nice heart wrenching story could be found with anne frank. We just can’t – not ever – forget the measure of what we learn.
kabol

He can get a woody for anyone he wants, this is america right

[QUOTE=morey]He can get a woody for anyone he wants, this is america right[/QUOTE]
of course. nothing's stopping anyone from admiring Hitler. unfortunately, some people fail to see why setting up a Hiter memorial could be considered "offensive."

[QUOTE=bassplr19]Why is it that it's always focused on the Jews as being the victims?

1 million more Chinese citizens and almost twice as many "Russian" citizens were killed than Jews. But all you ever hear about is the Jewish Holocaust.[/QUOTE]

One word.

HOLOCAUST

Jews were targeteted, rounded up, stripped, ad gassed. Perhaps more Chinese and Russians died but as Mirka said they were casualties of war, the nazi regime tried to wipe jews off the face of the earth, it was attempted genocide.

I think the main difference lies in the fact that the Germans built killing factories, uniquely designed to eliminate and dispose of the body in an industrial way. They used the best possible techniques of that time, and organised it the way a modern nation could. Unlike many other crimes, they did not use the devices of non-civilisation : war, famine, neglect, on the contrary.

And even if the Jews were not the only victims, they are the vast majority of them.

precisely.
this reminds me of that joke:
Bush and Cheney tell Condoleeza they want to assassinate 3,000,000 Muslims and a movie star. Condoleeza asks "why the movie star?"
Cheney turns to Bush and says: "i told you she wouldn't care about the Muslims."

[I]intent [/I]is a major factor in my assessment of dictators. Stalin didn't [I]want[/I] millions to die, he acted out of what he felt was necessity (though there must have been sheer cruelty in there somewhere). Hitler, on the other hand, specifically sought to wipe out the Jews. Grae calls it "attempted genocide." i'd go even further and say it was highly successful genocide, with millions of Jews dying in death camps.

[QUOTE=xec8]Stalin didn't [I]want[/I] millions to die, he acted out of what he felt was necessity (though there must have been sheer cruelty in there somewhere).[/QUOTE]
Killing people was at the heart of the russian communists method, right from the Bolshevik days to the end of the Soviet Union. Weeding out any obstacles to power or the exercise of it was essential for them.

[QUOTE=franc tireur]Killing people was at the heart of the russian communists method, right from the Bolshevik days to the end of the Soviet Union. Weeding out any obstacles to power or the exercise of it was essential for them.[/QUOTE]
well, as far as I know, russian mentality have always showed a contempt to human life. look at Ivan IV Scary's cult that is in Russia, or that they still love Stalin. they are muredrs that are created for a national heroes of the masses.

I agree with that. We should also add that the instruction and strategy of the Russian Army have not much evolved since the days of the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945), and emphasize extreme brutality, even to its own soldiers.

Russia had won with Germany not because they had better soldiers but because they had a ocean of soldiers. it was like a flood.
and you're right franc tireur, look like Specnaz works. we had an example of their way of work in Bieslan (or how that place was called). They eliminated all, not only terrorists.

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]well, as far as I know, russian mentality have always showed a contempt to human life. look at Ivan IV Scary's cult that is in Russia, or that they still love Stalin. they are muredrs that are created for a national heroes of the masses.[/QUOTE]
i've met many several Russian Stalin apologists, and they appear to be quite delusional about their country's history. one claimed that Hitler and Stalin had secretely been working together during the 1941-1945 war, until Stalin betrayed Hitler in order to honourably bring down a tyrant.

[QUOTE=xec8]i've many several Russian Stalin apologists, and they appear to be quite delusional about their country's history. one claimed that Hitler and Stalin had secretely been working together during the 1941-1945 war, until Stalin betrayed Hitler in order to honourably bring down a tyrant.[/QUOTE]
yeah, that's funny. but that's a power of propaganda. but if we look in russia's past there always were repressions and terror. it's a part of their culture, just like vodka.

of course. Stalin was really worshipped in the years immediately after the war. there was genuine sadness when he died --- and panic. after all, he'd killed most good potential successors.
but that's irrelevant here.

getting even better : [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_fe_st/hitler_eatery[/url]

[QUOTE=franc tireur]getting even better : [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_fe_st/hitler_eatery[/url][/QUOTE]
you know what's sad? that if this restaurant would be called Lenin Cross or Mao something or any other communist murder name than no one would protest about it.

Absolutely.
Communism still has that romantic appeal, and the supposed virtue of "being a good idea that turned out bad".

[QUOTE=franc tireur]Absolutely.
Communism still has that romantic appeal, and the supposed virtue of "being a good idea that turned out bad".[/QUOTE]
Mother of one of my friends even pray to Che Guevara.

"I know what I am talking about when I am talking about the revolutions. The people who read the books go to the people who can't read the books, the poor people, and say, "We have to have a change." So, the poor people make the change, ah? And then, the people who read the books, they all sit around the big polished tables, and they talk and talk and talk and eat and eat and eat, eh? But what has happened to the poor people? They're dead! That's your revolution. Shhh... So, please, don't tell me about revolutions! And what happens afterwards? The same fucking thing starts all over again!"
from [B]Giu la Testa[/B] (Sergio Leone)

[QUOTE=franc tireur]"I know what I am talking about when I am talking about the revolutions. The people who read the books go to the people who can't read the books, the poor people, and say, "We have to have a change." So, the poor people make the change, ah? And then, the people who read the books, they all sit around the big polished tables, and they talk and talk and talk and eat and eat and eat, eh? But what has happened to the poor people? They're dead! That's your revolution. Shhh... So, please, don't tell me about revolutions! And what happens afterwards? The same fucking thing starts all over again!"
from [B]Giu la Testa[/B] (Sergio Leone)[/QUOTE]
true,
one of my friends who want to be a politician and know a lot about way of controling people say it's the best movie about revolution (and one of his favourite movies ever).

I remeber that once some company was forced to remove a tagline from their advertisement that was quote borrowed from Che Guevara. "we must be realists, we must want impossible" or something like that....