Hitler memorial in Wisconsin?

Not only is he a Nazi, he's also an incredibly lazy Nazi. Why is he waiting until [i]now[/i] to do this?

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13311289/[/url]

Shouldn't he be arrested for treason?

[COLOR=Red][B]Seriously, wow.[/B][/COLOR]

it's stupid but if he's doing this on he's own land than he is aloved to do that.

[QUOTE=mirka]Shouldn't he be arrested for treason?[/QUOTE]

Whoops, I didn't read the whole article. I thought that he was an American that served with the German military in WW2. But as a German immigrant, he should be deported.

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]it's stupid but if he's doing this on he's own land than he is aloved to do that.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't work like that here.

[QUOTE=bassplr19]

Why is it that it's always focused on the Jews as being the victims?

1 million more Chinese citizens and almost twice as many "Russian" citizens were killed than Jews. But all you ever hear about is the Jewish Holocaust.[/QUOTE]

You're so generally intelligent, i'm suprised that you would put that question forth.

Because..other citizens were casualities of war. They were not not systematically rounded up, tortured, humiliated, and executed in inhumane ways as part of a larger plan to eradicate their race?

[QUOTE=mirka]It doesn't work like that here.[/QUOTE]
he need a permit, right?
without it he can't bulid anything

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]he need a permit, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[QUOTE=mirka]You're so generally intelligent, i'm suprised that you would put that question forth.

Because..other citizens were casualities of war. They were not not systematically rounded up, tortured, humiliated, and executed in inhumane ways as part of a larger plan to eradicate their race?[/QUOTE]
wait, Stanil have killed in his slave-labor camps 10 milion people most of them were russians, but also people from east europe and asia, why any one don't care about them?

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]wait, Stanil have killed in his slave-labor camps 10 milion people most of them were russians, but also people from east europe and asia, why any one don't care about them?[/QUOTE]

People do care. What's your point?

[QUOTE=mirka]People do care. What's your point?[/QUOTE]
my point is thet when people think about who sufferd at WWII they think about Jews. I don't have nothing against them. I'm not one of those who negate holocaust, but I think it's unfair to others nations that suffer the same. so don't call them "...casualities of war".

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]my point is thet when people think about who sufferd at WWII they think about Jews. I don't have nothing against them. I'm not one of those who negate holocaust, but I think it's unfair to others nations that suffer the same.[/QUOTE]

My point is that is the [I]way [/I]that the jews were killed during WW2. Other nations had a higher loss of life but that was a s a result of "normal" warfare..death from disease, bombings, starvation etc. I'm not discouting that loss of life or saying it doesn't matter, I'm answering that guys question.

[QUOTE=mirka]My point is that is the [I]way [/I]that the jews were killed during WW2. Other nations had a higher loss of life but that was a s a result of "normal" warfare..death from disease, bombings, starvation etc. I'm not discouting that loss of life or saying it doesn't matter, I'm answering that guys question.[/QUOTE]
I accept that answer, sorry I've got too emotional a bit.

[QUOTE=Mr.Shadov]I accept that answer, sorry I've got too emotional a bit.[/QUOTE]

hey, I know Poland lost about 20% of it's population during WW2. I've also read the Gulag Archipelos. The aftermath of WW2 was terrible too, what with the labor camps etc.. I was just addressing that one question.

I have some friends that went on two tours of AXIS WWII historical sites in Europe. There's very little to commemerate the loss of lives on the losing side.

It's sort of sad ya know. So many good people died on the German side. and have almost no memorials to them. I'm sure that there were many soldiers that were just soldiers, just nice men who joined the military. Just because they happened to live in Germany and their gov't was wacky doesn't mean that the loss of their lives shouldn't be recognized. I guess that's what you get for losing!

It's tough to talk about Hitler in a positive light. He was the source of so many horrible acts. But no one, not ever Hitler was all bad. He was trying to make the world a better place for his people. Misguided but at least he believed in something bigger than corporate profit, unlike GW Bush who is a puppet of others.

There is a very interesting book called "[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415925819/102-2200057-4592920?v=glance&n=283155]Selling the Holocaust[/URL]"

Talks about things like Spielbergs movie Shindlier's list becoming viewed as historical fact. And how the Holocaust museum in DC was funded. Good stuff. From a guy who is a fellow at the Holocaust museum.

[URL=http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/]Hitler did help commission the Volkswagen Beetle. [/URL] Whether that is to his credit or his shame is up to you.

[QUOTE=random Hitler article]Sitting at a restaurant table in Munich in the summer of 1932, Hitler designed the prototype for what would become the immensely successful Beetle design for Volkswagen (literally, the "car of the people"). In an era where only the most economic elite possessed cars, Hitler believed that all people should be able to own a car and additionally thought that a smart design could allow for reliability, enjoyment, and vacation travel. The name given to the car in 1938 was Kraft durch Freude (KdF-Wagen, literally "strength through joy car").

Hitler gave his design to the head of Daimler-Benz, Jakob Werlin, and stressed its importance. "Take it with you and speak with people who understand more about it than I do. But don't forget it. I want to hear from you soon, about the technical details."
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=rkdaley]I have some friends that went on two tours of AXIS WWII historical sites in Europe. There's very little to commemerate the loss of lives on the losing side.

It's sort of sad ya know. So many good people died on the German side. and have almost no memorials to them. I'm sure that there were many soldiers that were just soldiers, just nice men who joined the military. Just because they happened to live in Germany and their gov't was wacky doesn't mean that the loss of their lives shouldn't be recognized. I guess that's what you get for losing![/QUOTE]
i fully agree, I saw once a documentary about fights in Warsaw. There was readed part of some dair of german solider, it remind me that they weren't some devils but normal people.
Not all german soliders were some fanatic nazi.

[QUOTE=rkdaley]It's tough to talk about Hitler in a positive light. He was the source of so many horrible acts. But no one, not ever Hitler was all bad. He was trying to make the world a better place for his people. Misguided but at least he believed in something bigger than corporate profit, unlike GW Bush who is a puppet of others.[/QUOTE]
Hitler wasn't a devil, he wasn't even frist that came with such idea that one nation should kill others, he was just someone who wanted to change world. but I don't change the fact I still hate him and all nazi.

[QUOTE=mirka]Whoops, I didn't read the whole article. I thought that he was an American that served with the German military in WW2. But as a German immigrant, he should be deported.[/QUOTE]

fuck free speech!
he should be building another statue for the ten commandments!

Jews aren't a "race". They're an "ethnicity".

[QUOTE=rkdaley]I have some friends that went on two tours of AXIS WWII historical sites in Europe. There's very little to commemerate the loss of lives on the losing side.

It's sort of sad ya know. So many good people died on the German side. and have almost no memorials to them. I'm sure that there were many soldiers that were just soldiers, just nice men who joined the military. Just because they happened to live in Germany and their gov't was wacky doesn't mean that the loss of their lives shouldn't be recognized. I guess that's what you get for losing![/QUOTE]

I agree fully. And as you know, there can't be much commemoration when practically breathing the word "Nazi" is illegal there...

[QUOTE]It's tough to talk about Hitler in a positive light. He was the source of so many horrible acts. But no one, not ever Hitler was all bad. He was trying to make the world a better place for his people. Misguided but at least he believed in something bigger than corporate profit, unlike GW Bush who is a puppet of others.[/QUOTE]

A personal question, Robert: whom do YOU think truly caused the shift in policy from internment to extermination, from work camps and slave labor into a "policy of extermination" of Jews, of mentally ill, of Gypsy folk, of selective homosexuals (Hitler seemed to have little problem with homosexuals--or their personal lives--for his own personal reasons, a la Ernst Röhm among many others), of Communists, of the mentally handicapped, of the physically handicapped, et cetera? Hitler? Himmler? Since there is no documentation to point to anyone in particular, do you think it was ever a true "national policy" at all?

Just curious.

Casualties of war. Innocent people. Were it not for the point that the war reached by the early '40s, I doubt things would've went the way they did. I myself [I]do[/I] believe that the Jews [I]were[/I] a "casualty of war", in that the war--yes, started by Germany--expedited their being placed into work camps, & when the war tide turned, they were... well, we all know what happened.

Or do we?

[QUOTE=Lazlosdead]fuck free speech!
he should be building another statue for the ten commandments![/QUOTE]

Heh.

Part of the reason is because there are more Jews living in both America and Canada than there are anywhere else on earth. Including Israel. So we tend to pay attention more.

Most of the Chinese people are like, still in China.

[QUOTE=Lazlosdead]fuck free speech!
he should be building another statue for the ten commandments![/QUOTE]

Don't quote me and post asinine out of context shit, please.

Read the thread. This dude is a war criminal. How does that have anything to do with free speech?

[QUOTE=jane s.]Part of the reason is because there are more Jews living in both America and Canada than there are anywhere else on earth. Including Israel. So we tend to pay attention more.

Most of the Chinese people are like, still in China.[/QUOTE]

And the other part of the reason, is, "like", Jews were targeted for [I]extermination[/I].

It's a good question, mirka. A very good question.

[QUOTE=mirka]What's love got to do, got to do with it?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=willtupper]It's a good question, mirka. A very good question. :)[/QUOTE]

Please don't fake quote me unless you're Jeff Division from Landa.

Hi, Will.

[QUOTE=mirka]And the other part of the reason, is, "like", Jews were targeted for [I]extermination[/I].[/QUOTE]
the same was with Gipsys(?) (what is the plural form?)

[QUOTE=jane s.]Part of the reason is because there are more Jews living in both America and Canada than there are anywhere else on earth. Including Israel. So we tend to pay attention more.

Most of the Chinese people are like, still in China.[/QUOTE]

I think this is more of a valid reason than they were exterminated, along with the fact that they partially own Hollywood. There have been many other genocides since, so it's not like anyone learned from it, at least not in a good sense. Bad people learned how to keep it quieter and in their own country. America is the "world police," yet we'll only get involved if there's a buck to be made (not counting selling weapons to the "bad people").

It's just unfair to the rest of the people that died, is all I'm saying. They don't get memorials and movies and beg for sympathy.

I was told my great great great (or just great great, don't know) grandma was jewish, so no one think I'm hatin'.

[QUOTE=mirka]You're so generally intelligent, i'm suprised that you would put that question forth.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the complement.

[QUOTE=mirka]And the other part of the reason, is, "like", Jews were targeted for [I]extermination[/I].[/QUOTE]

I know dear, I was backing you up. Simmer.

[QUOTE=bassplr19]I think this is more of a valid reason than they were exterminated, along with the fact that they partially own Hollywood. [/QUOTE]

Not to mention how the Zionist-Occupied Government is stealing the blood of Christian children for use in their Passover Rituals!!!!

Spike, did you hear that in addition to taking over the movie industry and stealing baby blood, Jews also have the heads of goats?

[QUOTE=jane s.]Spike, did you hear that in addition to taking over the movie industry and stealing baby blood, Jews also have the heads of goats?[/QUOTE]

I get the movie industry and baby blood, but what are the goat heads for? I'm a bit out of the loop here.

And I think they're losing their strangehold on Hollywood to Cruiscientology.

The goat heads are for that I just made that up.

[QUOTE=jane s.]The goat heads are for that I just made that up.[/QUOTE]
You could have spent some time thinking about it instead of telling the truth ya know. Your postcount I doubt would suffer.

[QUOTE=mirka]Whoops, I didn't read the whole article. I thought that he was an American that served with the German military in WW2. But as a German immigrant, he should be deported.[/QUOTE]

why, all he is doing is using the right to free speech, its not illegal to think hitler was right, its illegal to try and do what hitler did

[QUOTE=FuzzBusta]You could have spent some time thinking about it instead of telling the truth ya know. Your postcount I doubt would suffer.[/QUOTE]

You never want to play fun games with me.

[QUOTE=jane s.]You never want to play fun games with me.[/QUOTE]
You never provide me a good enough challenge.

I've never heard of the goat head thing, but it makes sense. Mexicans like goats, and Ben Stein owns Mexico and is commanding Mexicans to cross the border to steal the jobs of everyone who isn't a Jew.

- - -

Oh, and being in America means that this guy can legally build a museum celebrating the life of a murderous foreign dictator on his own land with his own money, but we also have the freedom to call him a Nazi, a white supremicist, a traitor and an idiot for doing so.

God bless America (except for the filthy states of California, Oregon, Washington and Massachussets.)!

[QUOTE=bassplr19]I think this is more of a valid reason than they were exterminated, along with the fact that they partially own Hollywood. There have been many other genocides since, so it's not like anyone learned from it, at least not in a good sense. Bad people learned how to keep it quieter and in their own country. America is the "world police," yet we'll only get involved if there's a buck to be made (not counting selling weapons to the "bad people").

It's just unfair to the rest of the people that died, is all I'm saying. They don't get memorials and movies and beg for sympathy.

I was told my great great great (or just great great, don't know) grandma was jewish, so no one think I'm hatin'.

Thanks for the complement.[/QUOTE]

I think there's big difference between being killed by "the enemy" or the accompanying ravages of war like famine and disease because your country[I] is at war [/I],and being slaughtered by your own government. Being herded up and tatooed and shoved naked into a big room to be gassed. Big difference. I don't think it's propaganda by jews, but a collective horror that a country was capable doing that to their own citizens.

[QUOTE=jane s.]I know dear, I was backing you up. Simmer.[/QUOTE]

Sorry.

[QUOTE=wddim]why, all he is doing is using the right to free speech, its not illegal to think hitler was right, its illegal to try and do what hitler did[/QUOTE]

Because he's a WAR CRIMINAL and should have never been granted citizenship. I'm not even talking about the free speech aspect of this. Jesus.

[QUOTE=mirka]Because he's a WAR CRIMINAL and should have never been granted citizenship. I'm not even talking about the free speech aspect of this. Jesus.[/QUOTE]
free speech may be essential to a free state, but it is free speech that first allowed Hitler to victimize the Jews in his captivating little harangues. there's a difference between allowing people to think for themselves (and share their views), and allowing them to actually encourage people to support a racist, violent, organized political movement. any moron can say "free speech! free speech! woohoo!", just as any moron can buy a gun for protection.

the problem is the people who pull the trigger, who use the concept of "free speech" to thwart public opinion of an already ill-established ethnicity like the Jews in Weimar Germany. they were an easy target and yes, Hitler might have been partially correct in some of his assumptions about their influence in the economy (which i doubt, doubt, doubt). unfortunately, he succeeded in disseminating his views across Germany. thankfully, most Westerners nowadays agree that his views were erroneous and harmful beyond acceptable rationale. and yet Hitler convinced a large part of Germany to destroy millions of human lives - and this was based on what we think are invalid reasons.

i don't live in America, but if i did i wouldn't want to even listen to people who advocate "free speech" blindly - without even thinking of the consequences of allowing fervent hate speech. any incident like this article's American farmer's apotheosis of Adolf Hitler, if frowned upon by the majority (as it seems to be in this very forum), can safely be extinguished. that's what some people understand to mean "democracy." there are too many contradictions and dangerous connotations involved in bringing up the concept of "free speech" when you're speaking about genocidal behaviour.

so, to sum up my rant: fuck "free speech" trolls.

[QUOTE=xec8]... and yet Hitler convinced a large part of Germany to destroy millions of human lives - and this was based on what we think are invalid reasons. [/QUOTE]

Fine, then. What were his reasons?

[QUOTE=mirka]I think there's big difference between being killed by "the enemy" or the accompanying ravages of war like famine and disease because your country[I] is at war [/I],and being slaughtered by your own government. Being herded up and tatooed and shoved naked into a big room to be gassed. Big difference. I don't think it's propaganda by jews, but a collective horror that a country was capable doing that to their own citizens.[/QUOTE]

Stalin killed 7000000 of his own people in 1932-1933
[url]http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/stalin_famine.htm[/url]

2000000 were killed in Cambodia in 1975-1979
[url]http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/polpot.htm[/url]

Are these people not as important? All I am saying, is that the Jews always get a voice and other victims do not. I'm not saying it's not horrifying that it happened.

Maybe I'm wrong with my Jews have a large control over the media statement, maybe us Americans are just sick fucks that love to see people die in the most grusome way possible. Simple genocides, with armies gunning down village after village is just too passe. Notice, we didn't care too much about the two genocides in the 1990's.

No, now you're saying something entirely different. We were talking about WW2. If you don't think there are enough memorials for all the horrors, do something about it instead of posting about it..

The whole point of all these memorials and whatnot is to educate the younger generations to ensure that atrocities like the ones commited in WWII never happen again.

Trying to say this atrocity is worse that that atrocity is pointless. Mass murder is wrong. Whether it's committed by Christians in the crusades or The Nazi's in their master race delusion.

There are plenty of atrocities going on right now. Darfur for one. The occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza could be viewed as another, the oppression in China, the supression of women in places like Saudi Arabia. I would like to see more focus on stopping these atrocities.

The Jewish folks are organized. They have a huge lobbying organization here in America - AIPAC, JDL, ADL and several more. They got smart and got organized. They preserve their heritage and their culture. They've been fucked with since the beginning of time it seems like. They ain't gonna be fucked with no more. Good for them.

It's easy for this generation to say "so what" to the atrocities of the past, but they are very important to recognize and understand. The general population is complacent and easily fooled. Being aware is the first step, the next step is doing something about it as Mirka suggested.

[QUOTE=rkdaley]The whole point of all these memorials and whatnot is to educate the younger generations to ensure that atrocities like the ones commited in WWII never happen again.

Trying to say this atrocity is worse that that atrocity is pointless. Mass murder is wrong. Whether it's committed by Christians in the crusades or The Nazi's in their master race delusion.

There are plenty of atrocities going on right now. Darfur for one. The occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza could be viewed as another, the oppression in China, the supression of women in places like Saudi Arabia. I would like to see more focus on stopping these atrocities.

The Jewish folks are organized. They have a huge lobbying organization here in America - AIPAC, JDL, ADL and several more. They got smart and got organized. They preserve their heritage and their culture. They've been fucked with since the beginning of time it seems like. They ain't gonna be fucked with no more. Good for them.

It's easy for this generation to say "so what" to the atrocities of the past, but they are very important to recognize and understand. The general population is complacent and easily fooled. Being aware is the first step, the next step is doing something about it as Mirka suggested.[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you said!! Especially that the "general population is complacent and easily fooled," it explains GWB. That's what pissed me off about the last election, important things were not topics, but abortion and gay marrariage is what the whole election was about and that's wrong.
I'm still plannning on running for President in 2020, total grassroots, when I'm first eligible.

Tangent -
I had a theory, Kerry's tagline was "A Stronger America", GWB could have won the election without campaigning, but simply running ads saying "Bush/Cheney A Less Gay America"

[QUOTE=Lazlosdead]Fine, then. What were his reasons?[/QUOTE]
the entire concept of a "superior race" to me seems plausible in an evolutionary sense. if blacks and whites and native americans and, say, Samoans had never ever interacted after their original separation and millions of years passed, it's possible that they would have evolved into different post-human creatures, whatever. Hitler thought the Jews were a race - which they are not - and believed in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy. [B]Marx[/B] had been a Jew, as was [B]Einstein[/B], and also [B]Freud[/B] - three Jews who had permanently altered the way human beings saw themselves and the world around them. Hitler believed - and claimed in his speeches - that the Jews were at the heart of the problems in Germany, both social and political (and by extension economic). WWI, he said, had ended in Germany's defeat because of the Jews and communists. they were an unsettling force. did he have proof to support this?
you may perhaps disagree, but i think Hitler's sweeping and pathetic generalisations showed just not brilliant propaganda, but a seriously confused and self-righteous worldview.
the Bosnian genocide was also based on race. ethnic cleansing in some African states is a chronic problem. what are the reasons? delusions. and, perhaps, human nature.

[QUOTE=xec8]the Bosnian genocide was also based on race. ethnic cleansing in some African states is a chronic problem. what are the reasons? delusions. and, perhaps, human nature.[/QUOTE]

It is not human nature to wipe out an entire race, it is greed and power. Which the feminist in me says it might be male nature, of course the male chauvanist in me says it's because the men don't get laid nearly enough and that's because of the women not putting out. Then the realist thinks both are partly true, males fight for territory (women), in many countries it's more advantageous to have male babies or at least more of the population is male than female because they are "harder" workers, but then men NEED to fight for sex which is equivalent to territory.

I may have lost some people on the way but please question if necessary.

[QUOTE=bassplr19]It is not human nature to wipe out an entire race, it is greed and power. Which the feminist in me says it might be male nature, of course the male chauvanist in me says it's because the men don't get laid nearly enough and that's because of the women not putting out. Then the realist thinks both are partly true, males fight for territory (women), in many countries it's more advantageous to have male babies or at least more of the population is male than female because they are "harder" workers, but then men NEED to fight for sex which is equivalent to territory.

I may have lost some people on the way but please question if necessary.[/QUOTE]
clearly here we are delving into much more than the ethics of setting up a Hitler memorial. my philosophies center around my conviction that humans will always wipe each other out. it's not important whether we have feminist or masculist opinions, really - because genocide occurs and always has, regardless of the opinions of "thinkers."
by the way, i'm not sure if you're male or female, but legend has it that the Amazons were fond of keeping men only for breeding purposes and slaying (i think) the rest.
both women and men supported Hitler. both sexes also opposed him.
also, some of the reasons that the Jews are singled out as the real victims of WWII:
[LIST]
[*]they have played a greater part in European political/religious history than the Poles or any slavic people
[*]they were the most famous of Hitler's opponents
[*]people like oversimplification. it's a lot easier (and sadly more dramatically effective) to say "Hitler the Monster annihilated all the Jews for no reason" than it is to say "Hitler, a Confused, Unhappy and Ambitious Man, annhilitated several millions of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and Homosexuals in what he genuinely believed was a tactical reversal of the poor economic and social situation in Germany, a belief he had entertained since his adolescence after witnessing some disparities between Jewish and non-Jewish wealth and living conditions." turning him into a monster makes him more interesting, and turning the Jews into helpless victims (which they were) without acknowledging the "lesser" people like those "dirty slavs" Hollywoodizes the whole thing.
[*]the first victims of the Holocaust of which the West became aware were the Jews. by the time they announced the deaths of gypsies (whom nobody likes anyways) and Russians (who were bloody communists), people were simply too numb to respond as they had for the Jews.
[/LIST]

you are not wrong to ask why people don't care about the other victims, and sorry guys, but sadly many people DON'T care, because they've seen Schindler's List but no documentary about Sierra Leone. the Russians were never a popular bunch with the Americans, so naturally the US makes a bigger deal about the deaths of Jews than about Stalinist horrors. add to that the fact that you don't see many Russian/Polish/Ukranian activist groups in English-speaking countries trying to convince people that the war was hard on them too. they're too busy with their own problems, like finding decent jobs and getting their Visas sorted out.