Flash cartoon by the kid who shot up his school

Holy shit. That's pretty disturbing.

It's sure to stir up the old violence/censorship/sick modern media debate.

Typically, I think it's a good thing for people to channel their angst and unresolvable feelings into something creative. Either I'm just dead wrong, or in this case it just wasn't enough.

I'm seriously bothered by this. It shakes up one of my most fundamental beliefs.

Here's a link to his livejournal: [url]http://www.livejournal.com/users/weise/[/url]

that wasn't so bad. i've seen way worse stuff than that goofy cartoon.

Well of course, but most of the way worse stuff I myself have seen wasn't done by a kid who later shot up a high school.

[QUOTE=jane s.]Well of course, but most of the way worse stuff I myself have seen wasn't done by a kid who later shot up a high school.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

This is gonna stir up that whole debate about kids channeling their anger and angst into something creative and kids are gonna get picked up because they wrote a story that has a character who kills some other characters.

The cartoon was lame by the way.

[QUOTE=jane s.]Well of course, but most of the way worse stuff I myself have seen wasn't done by a kid who later shot up a high school.[/QUOTE]
pssh....if the cartoon was about a bunny eating other bunnies and then eating himself it would be the same thing. a lame cartoon that didn't matter.

[QUOTE=big S]pssh....if the cartoon was about a bunny eating other bunnies and then eating himself it would be the same thing. a lame cartoon that didn't matter.[/QUOTE]

Right....

Because obviously there's nothing disturbingly close to what happens in that cartoon and what happened at that school.

No correlation whatsoever.

he shot the school because he shot the school. it has nothing to do with some bullshit cartoon.

[QUOTE=big S]he shot the school because he shot the school. it has nothing to do with some bullshit cartoon.[/QUOTE]

Impeccable logic.

I'm not saying that the cartoon made him shoot the school.

But don't you find it in the least bit interesting that he chose to make a cartoon. That cartoon depicted a "cool" assassin shooting the shit out of various people. It was clearly at least an [I]indicator[/I] of future behaviour, no matter how uncomfortable that is.

What bothers me isn't the cartoon, it's the fact that at some point he chose to break from fantasy into reality.

Maybe it's not normal to fantasize about blowing away your fellow students, but I was picked on plenty in my school and I did that a lot. Very morbid fantasies about how to kill and maim and torture several students and teachers, usually followed by suicide. The cartoon here is very tame by comparison. But the difference is that instead of acting out on them, I did other shit. Write music, poetry, short stories, drawings, whatever. It never went beyond that for me.

The question is when does the promise of a better day coming appear to be hopelessly broken, to the point where one finally snaps and goes from mere musings to horrific actions against the people one perceives to be persecuting them?

[QUOTE=jase]What bothers me isn't the cartoon, it's the fact that at some point he chose to break from fantasy into reality.

Maybe it's not normal to fantasize about blowing away your fellow students, but I was picked on plenty in my school and I did that a lot. Very morbid fantasies about how to kill and maim and torture several students and teachers, usually followed by suicide. The cartoon here is very tame by comparison. But the difference is that instead of acting out on them, I did other shit. Write music, poetry, short stories, drawings, whatever. It never went beyond that for me.

The question is when does the promise of a better day coming appear to be hopelessly broken, to the point where one finally snaps and goes from mere musings to horrific actions against the people one perceives to be persecuting them?[/QUOTE]

The problem is that sometimes the line between reality and fantasy are blurred so much you can actually act out everything you fantasize without little remorse.

Some people can switch from both like a lightswitch, some people can't.

I can, with all the fucked up shit i get on my reality, but i can see why many people can't. It gets to you, and you just blow up.

Many people who just kill and then kill themselves are just blowing up and acting out, they don't want any reality.

I can't really blame any of them. Life as it is is not as charming sometimes, neither are people. Sometimes you just don't give a crap for any reality, be it fantasy or otherwise. So is life.

I used to have down days in high school and I could just sit there in class and imagine how I would just ented the class with a gun and shoot the teacher and blow away people in class and hallways and what I'd do next and how I would sneak down the hallways as the alarm bells would go off and it would for some reason always calm me down. It's an outlet. But for most people there's that little thing in the back of the brain that says, you know, it might not be the bestest of ideas to actually do this. For me it was actually also a creative outlet, because what I in essence was doing was writing scenarios in my head about what would happen and how it would go down. It's just blowing off steam in your head.

It's sad that indeed sometimes people just fucking... snap.

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Holy shit. That's pretty disturbing.

It's sure to stir up the old violence/censorship/sick modern media debate.[/QUOTE]
not really because they're all injins and nobody really cares in america.,

Something tells me the kid who shot up his school didnt make that video. Regardless, and I dont care what people think, its a good animation.

i agree with the 2nd half of that comment.

People are killed.. Kids are now killing people more frequently, and it happens in shool because thats a place they spend a lot of time. Say if that kid was homeschooled, he probably would have shot his grandparents and then himself and no one would have fussed about it. But since its devastating only now because he killed a bunch of kids as well, its NEWS. Good for news, if it werent for news nothing would be known and nothing could be done about these things, but in the meantime, they still HAPPEN. But the thing is, no one is doing anything about shit. This stuff happens because it is going to in one way or another, in any way it can be done. People hijack planes still after 9.11, kids still kill kids in school even after Columbine. People kill people. News is just gossip, its awareness of some kind and it probably does make a bit of a difference, but still....
Im not saying it is right but its most certainly not going to end. It may be minimized, but not as long as people are only talking about fixing it instead of just fixing it. I know you cant just go out and fix something and have it be fixed to please and everything is ok. It just seems like things are only fixed while its still in the news and then the fixing of that deteriorates because something else came up that needs fixed and what was being fixed gets lost and breaks again.
because its been broken, it can only be fixed temporarily and/or fixed by a small percentage that doesnt last. We`re grown and based on supply and demand of things that arent built to last because of supply and demand. people dont want to make things built to last because theyre too busy benefiting from the process of them breaking, irreplacably and then turning around and builiding something even more shitty than it was before because prior results had such a great turn out. (im skewing off topic sort-of, while trying to stay on) Same thing with the airplanes and the warfare. Were over there trying to keep peace while were killing people, getting killed. I just think natures way of dealing with overpopulation is murder, death, disaster, and disease.

[QUOTE=Minuet] I just think natures way of dealing with overpopulation is murder, death, disaster, and disease.[/QUOTE]

This reminds me of a Dutch celebrity who said that "well, yeah the Tsunami tragedy wasn't all that bad, because the world is so overpopulated anyway and it's nature's way of dealing with it."

Let's hear her say that when her whole family is wiped out in one day.

[QUOTE=Mr. Brown]This reminds me of a Dutch celebrity who said that "well, yeah the Tsunami tragedy wasn't all that bad, because the world is so overpopulated anyway and it's nature's way of dealing with it."

Let's hear her say that when her whole family is wiped out in one day.[/QUOTE]
hm, didnt think of it that way but most of those people killed themselves when they didnt run for the hills instead of staying near the godamn coast.
thats sounds so mean, i know.....im sorry. maybe watching the tsunami disaster videos desensitized me a bit because they had time to tape the danged thing coming but not to get the hell outta dodge. dont get me wrong, i gave money to the reliefs and all....you know, to make up for the bad things i just said about what happened....

:eek:

[QUOTE=Minuet]hm, didnt think of it that way but most of those people killed themselves when they didnt run for the hills instead of staying near the godamn coast.
thats sounds so mean, i know.....im sorry. maybe watching the tsunami disaster videos desensitized me a bit because they had time to tape the danged thing coming but not to get the hell outta dodge. dont get me wrong, i gave money to the reliefs and all....you know, to make up for the bad things i say about what happened....

;)[/QUOTE]

I didn't imply that's what you said, but you're last line reminded me of what I posted. We had like a nice ol' discussion about that viewpoint at the dinner table with the whole family.

It's easy to now say though that they should've run for the hills. In hindsight we know now how big that fucker of a wave was, but there was no way of knowin that when you're there, on vacation/working/living and you're like, whoah, look at that wave, whoah pretty damn big, man that fucker is big, holy mother of god that thing is huge, dude, oh my god, HUGE what the I can't believe my --

[QUOTE=Minuet]hm, didnt think of it that way but most of those people killed themselves when they didnt run for the hills instead of staying near the godamn coast.
thats sounds so mean, i know.....im sorry. maybe watching the tsunami disaster videos desensitized me a bit because they had time to tape the danged thing coming but not to get the hell outta dodge. dont get me wrong, i gave money to the reliefs and all....you know, to make up for the bad things i just said about what happened....

:eek:[/QUOTE]

This is a joke, right?

of course, silly!! i actually had someone tell me they couldnt pay their house payment anymore because they gave all their money to the tsunami reliefs. so i checked their account as they had allowed me to do so. Sure enough, $75,000+ had been deducted...but who knows where it actually went.
I saw pictures of people sun bathing on the beach with piles of bodies laying around...
people are fucked.

Someone I knew said, well, they had already payed for the vacation and they're not supposed to intrude in the professional help at the disaster area, so what can you do? Besides sit there and get backrubs by little Asian women.

He's a moron.

Phew.

I rolled in drunk and just had to check!

I remember a BBC report showing a bunch of British Football lads laying on Phuket beach four days after saying: "It's our holiday, we have to make the most of it"

I was so proud to be UK that day.

[QUOTE=Minuet]Something tells me the kid who shot up his school didnt make that video. [/QUOTE]
why? Its kind of a fact.
Check his profile on the page.

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Phew.

I rolled in drunk and just had to check!

I remember a BBC report showing a bunch of British Football lads laying on Phuket beach four days after saying: "It's our holiday, we have to make the most of it"

I was so proud to be UK that day.[/QUOTE]
why, because instead of helping the survivors or to clean up the wreckage or cleaning away the dead bodies they were on the beach kicking around a soccer ball?

[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Impeccable logic.

I'm not saying that the cartoon made him shoot the school.

But don't you find it in the least bit interesting that he chose to make a cartoon. That cartoon depicted a "cool" assassin shooting the shit out of various people. It was clearly at least an [I]indicator[/I] of future behaviour, no matter how uncomfortable that is.[/QUOTE]

But would it be for all people? No. We dont need "thought police" telling us what we can and cant create with words or images.

[QUOTE=MockyMockins]But would it be for all people? No. We dont need "thought police" telling us what we can and cant create with words or images.[/QUOTE]
i concur.

[QUOTE=Minuet]People are killed.. Kids are now killing people more frequently, and it happens in shool because thats a place they spend a lot of time. Say if that kid was homeschooled, he probably would have shot his grandparents and then himself and no one would have fussed about it. But since its devastating only now because he killed a bunch of kids as well, its NEWS. Good for news, if it werent for news nothing would be known and nothing could be done about these things, but in the meantime, they still HAPPEN. But the thing is, no one is doing anything about shit. This stuff happens because it is going to in one way or another, in any way it can be done. People hijack planes still after 9.11, kids still kill kids in school even after Columbine. People kill people. News is just gossip, its awareness of some kind and it probably does make a bit of a difference, but still....
Im not saying it is right but its most certainly not going to end. It may be minimized, but not as long as people are only talking about fixing it instead of just fixing it. I know you cant just go out and fix something and have it be fixed to please and everything is ok. It just seems like things are only fixed while its still in the news and then the fixing of that deteriorates because something else came up that needs fixed and what was being fixed gets lost and breaks again.
because its been broken, it can only be fixed temporarily and/or fixed by a small percentage that doesnt last. We`re grown and based on supply and demand of things that arent built to last because of supply and demand. people dont want to make things built to last because theyre too busy benefiting from the process of them breaking, irreplacably and then turning around and builiding something even more shitty than it was before because prior results had such a great turn out. (im skewing off topic sort-of, while trying to stay on) Same thing with the airplanes and the warfare. Were over there trying to keep peace while were killing people, getting killed. I just think natures way of dealing with overpopulation is murder, death, disaster, and disease.[/QUOTE]

News are just a record. A record that this stuff happened, granted that they are manipulated for other means but in the end it is just a record.

Killing is just part of human nature. You set yourself in a position that you are a threat for whatever reason to someone else and you could be killed and in turn kill as well.

The thing is that news remind us of this fact that we program ourselves to forget. Inavertedly with all the economic pressures of not only the world but locally you can see how we are killing ourselves very close to each other. It happens with less frequency from place to place, country to country but it happens. I don't think you can erase that.

Nature doesn't need to do shit. Just wait till there are less resources like oil, say about 10 years only, and lets wait and see how the world is. Probably some countries will adapt and find other ways, but if they don't there is probably going to be a lot of shit happening, and that is just one resource.

Yet we forge ourselves that everything is ok, one might even dream of how things would be when one gets old, but it is all really an illusion. The world inherited is quite a killing one.

The problem is not the news, the problem is one dreaming something that is not quite accurate with the cruel reality of the world. The news just burst the bubble.

Now back to the topic of the kids, i have read about kids very small killing out of envy because of a new born, right there is tha innate ability to kill because of envy or competition. I can assure you there are plenty of kids who would kill to think there was this foreign baby to take his/her parents love away from them in their perspective. Even out of love people kill, by lots.

I don't think there is a way to fix that, there is a way however to keep it under covers so that we don't see this ugly truth quite often, but i can assure you right about now as i type someone is planning to kill somebody or someone already is for whatever reason. that is just part of life.

not in schools, they're not. this is the worst shooting of its kind since columbine in '99, and there's only been a couple reported school shootings in the last two years, way down from the prior years. the thing is kids are getting more creative in their ways of killing, which obviously draws more attention. like when that kid stole a cops gun and shot him and three other people a little while back, claiming he was playing out Grand Theft Auto. or those kids who were dropping shit from overpasses onto the cars below, or this chick in texas who called 911 about a fake hostage situation (read the thread) who, although she didn't kill anyone, she very well could have and she wouldn't have given a shit. the thing is media--books, movies, music--they do influence kids, but that's no reason whatsoever for people to think that banning these things is the answer. did marilyn manson really cause the kids in columbine to shoot their peers? no. did it help formulate an image in their minds? possibly. but so what. every time i see britney spears on the television i want to gouge out my eyes, but that doesn't mean i think banning her from television is going to make me any better, because i'm bound to find something else that makes me want to do the same thing. whatever takes her place is probably going to be worse anyhow. so the answer isn't having the thought police rounding up people who swear on their CDs or arresting people who make violent movies. its not about taking away kids rights to play videogames or whatever. the answer lies in better parenting and people being more vigilant and thoughtful of their neighbors, classmates, coworkers, prisonmates, etcs.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]the answer lies in better parenting and people being more vigilant and thoughtful of their neighbors, classmates, coworkers, prisonmates, etcs.[/QUOTE]

Some kids need a good smack around the head. Never hurt me none.

i'm a fan of discipline. i think a lot of parents are either too intimidated to spank their kids because the think the feds will come and take their children away (which could happen. fucking hippies), or they think alternative punishment like grounding their kids really works, which it generally doesn't since they're just going to sit in their rooms and play Halo and Grand Theft Auto while listening to their Marilyn Manson CDs.

You know, it's about discipline. Get your damned kids to learn what's right and wrong and fuck's sake, don't fucking buy them every goddamned thing you know. I got an allowance very early on, which kinda settles you into the fact that things costs money and you make a choice in what you want. After a while when I, again, asked for an allowance raise my father said, you know what, I'm not giving you a cent anymore, you're a big guy, get a job. This learns you responsibilty too.

I mean these kids today man, they all remind me of that annoying kid in THE SIMPSONS, where the mom just buys him everything and he throws it away in like five minutes. Then proceeds to kick another kid.

[QUOTE=Mr. Brown]I mean these kids today man, they all remind me of that annoying kid in THE SIMPSONS, where the mom just buys him everything and he throws it away in like five minutes. Then proceeds to kick another kid.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention Ned's parents:

Ned's Dad: We don't believe in rules, like, we gave them up when we started livin' like freaky beatniks!
Dr. Foster: You don't believe in rules, yet you want to control Ned's anger.
Ned's Mom: Yeah. You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.

whoa-there, grandpa...

[QUOTE=alex cassun]whoa-there, grandpa...[/QUOTE]

I see you haven't been slapped enough.

i remember my mom lining the four of us up for spankings. i never cried, though (and it didn't turn into a fetish, either, thank you very much). the worst part about it was anticipation, knowing that my turn was next. that, and she still does it.

my personal view on this is that some people are just screwed up. i would never kill anyone, despite the fact that i have wished to many many times. at some point, everyone wants to kill someone. those that do are the ones we hear about. they are not "pushed by the media" in any way. they gravitate towards something that fits their mindset. for some, listening to something like MM is a form of catharsis that prevents them from going crazy. for others its the other way around. but either way, dylan klebold and eric harris probably would have killed someone at somepoint (though it would have been more difficult with effective gun control laws) whether they were MM fans or chuck berry fans.
btw - when did this latest shooting occur? i didnt hear about it.

i dont think there's such a thing as 'effective gun control laws', and even if there was i doubt 100% it would have stopped them from killing anyone.

but it would have been more difficult. if there were no legal gun sales, they wouldnt have been able to get the guns they did. theyd have to go to black market sources and those guys werent exactly the "coolest" kids on campus.

Oh god, I figured this thread would degenerate into a discussion of gun laws.....

I suppose since there are morons who abuse a tool such as a gun I should be deprived of my right to own one? Knives are used far more often in murder as are blunt objects. Should I also be deprived of my right to cut a fucking steak or go to the batting cages? How about automobiles? Lets illegalize those also, since so many people seem to lack the ability to use them without fucking up.

Get real.

since when is a gun a tool?

[QUOTE=big S]since when is a gun a tool?[/QUOTE]

Wow, strong argument. You convinced me- guns can't be tools, they are far too evil. You however are a tool (not a literal one obviously- this parenthical is needed to obviate your likely rebuttal of "How am I a tool?")

[QUOTE=capitalistnihilist]Wow, strong argument. You convinced me- guns can't be tools, they are far too evil. You however are a tool (not a literal one obviously- this parenthical is needed to obviate your likely rebuttal of "How am I a tool?")[/QUOTE]
i'm sort of on your side, but dude, gay.

[QUOTE=MockyMockins]But would it be for all people? No. We dont need "thought police" telling us what we can and cant create with words or images.[/QUOTE]

No.

Who said anything about it being for all people?

And who said anything about policing thoughts?

It just bugs me when people go too far down the other path saying that the fact he made a cartoon that depicted in graphic cartoon detail something eerily akin to what he did several months later doesn't have any relevance at all.

As Jase said earlier, there are plenty of people who create these things, think these thoughts but don't act on them. It's never going to be as simple as saying - "whoah look what this kid made, he's going to do something bad later"

It's just an uncomfortable fact that for whatever reason, he chose to act on his fantasies, but that his fantasies were pretty clearly drawn out in cartoon form.

I'm not really stating anything beyond that...

[QUOTE=alex cassun]why, because instead of helping the survivors or to clean up the wreckage or cleaning away the dead bodies they were on the beach kicking around a soccer ball?[/QUOTE]

They were also dipping their fish and chips in their cups of tea before smiling their ungodly uneven smiles.

It was so insensitive.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]i'm sort of on your side, but dude, gay.[/QUOTE]

My response may not have been the best, but the whole "A gun is not a tool" argument is played out.

-Violence in movies
-Violence in video games
-Gun control
-Bad parenting
-Lack of religion
-Too much religion
-Too many kids in each class
-Too much pressure for teenagers these days
-Rap music!
-Influence by the war in Iraq
-Racism, sexism, homophobia
-Crazy hormones, what we need is school uniforms

Pick one.

There's simply too many people in the world and some of them are snapping. There is no single problem that can be resolved to stop this.

And fuck the kid's flash movie and live journal. That pretty much solves the case right there, he was a little dweeb so he went ape shit. I say we stop giving the dead bitch attention.