Don't read this, if you're in a Good Mood.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]it's CASSUN, with an N.[/QUOTE]

Aplogies Mr. Cassu[B]N[/B]. I was trying to add some levity to a piece that didn't need any. And I certainly don't want to misspell or mispronounce your name. When I'm recommending your ( sure to be) awesome movie to my bestest friends.

dont worry, i laughed, but i would've laughed harder if you spelled my name right. i didnt take anything personally, but my brain is hurting because i've been thinking if there was anything at all that i wrote that you might've taken as an insult, thus giving you reason to use my name, and i couldn't think of anything, so i concluded that it must've been a joke, even though the humor was buried beneath the weight of the subject matter, ya know? as far as recommending my movie, are you talking about my script? and recommend it how? like, recommending people to critique it?

[QUOTE=alex cassun]dont worry, i laughed, but i would've laughed harder if you spelled my name right. i didnt take anything personally, but my brain is hurting because i've been thinking if there was anything at all that i wrote that you might've taken as an insult, thus giving you reason to use my name, and i couldn't think of anything, so i concluded that it must've been a joke, even though the humor was buried beneath the weight of the subject matter, ya know? as far as recommending my movie, are you talking about my script? and recommend it how? like, recommending people to critique it?[/QUOTE]

Well, you're always making fun of Texans, and you know how they are with their guns and horses and lynchmobs and everything. * circles finger around ear * Anyway, my typing fingers are itching to participate in the workshop area of the site, but I haven't recieved the magic pm from Dennis yet.

Soon Mr. cassum, very soon.

i'm tired of people writing their posts like theyre chuck palahniuk.

This is not how we really talk.
This is not an original writing style.
This is getting really old.
This needs to stop right now.

also, i didn't know about all this fucked up stuff that happened to her until you posted it, Castaway. Remember the Lunsfords?

Cosmic didn't DO anything to make change. He posted a thread on an author's website about a problem, I'm not saying to jump on his ass about it but I'm not saying to act like he's a fucking revolutionist either. There's too much talk of how bad the world is from people who do nothing to change it, who won't make any effort except to post about it on Chuck Palahniuk's forum, and that's fine. But after a while it just looks like people trying to prove their deep and caring and compassionate and it's basically a bunch of bullshit. Maybe everyone has a breaking point where they need to let it all out and blah blah blah, but jesus christ, say it like you fucking mean it. I know I'm rambling on and when I do this I tend to lose any coherency but all this thread is about to me is cosmic's bleeding heart, not the little girl.

[QUOTE=tetsuo]Cosmic didn't DO anything to make change. He posted a thread on an author's website about a problem, I'm not saying to jump on his ass about it but I'm not saying to act like he's a fucking revolutionist either. There's too much talk of how bad the world is from people who do nothing to change it, who won't make any effort except to post about it on Chuck Palahniuk's forum, and that's fine. But after a while it just looks like people trying to prove their deep and caring and compassionate and it's basically a bunch of bullshit. Maybe everyone has a breaking point where they need to let it all out and blah blah blah, but jesus christ, say it like you fucking mean it. I know I'm rambling on and when I do this I tend to lose any coherency but all this thread is about to me is cosmic's bleeding heart, not the little girl.[/QUOTE]
i thought cosmic was a chick.

i was using the collective 'he'

Goddam, okay. Let's go...

[QUOTE=AndSteve]So your saying that if your sitting in a park, reading the headlines which all say "six year old girl found: Battered, Raped, Dead." and then look up to see another child being led into the bushes by a slightly off character your just going to sit there and think "Oh great because these little girls, they'll make another stupid ass law."[/QUOTE]

No. Besides, if all the headlines said that, according to Cosmic I ought to be getting terribly self-righteous and rushing down to the fucking paper that printed that vile shit and demanding they fire the jackass-reporter that pumped it out to "sell ad space" around the story... while the kid still gets killed. No. I never made any such analogy. Now, onward, and to my theory of crime and law (ANDsteve, you asked in your own way):

YOUR THEORY:

[QUOTE=ANDSTEVE]Yeah it's often said that laws arent needed because the criminals wont follow them, and the good people dont need to be reminded of what not to do. And maybe your one of those people, the kind that will never need to be reminded of whats right and wrong. But laws are for the majority. Some people will hear about these stories, and will agree that the best thing, for the MAJORITY of the population, is to write new laws to help try and prevent people form repeating the same mistake. Yeah, the deranged serial killers will never stop right before they are about to knife their next victim and think "Oh hey, dont want to break section 418 code 29 or I might end up in the big house." But most of the time, laws will help keep most forms of evil in check.[/QUOTE]

MY THEORY:

[CENTER]I don't [B]HAVE[/B] A FUCKING THEORY TO GIVE YOU![/CENTER]

It's this simple, THIS simple, Cosmic said to me:

[QUOTE=COSMIC]"You make a good point , but ...
Did airline security change after 9-11 ? Did DUI become a crime ?
Because people suffered and died. Then enough of them finally did something about it.
I should've stayed in psych.I'd have better answers about how. None-the-less my stupid bleeding heart wants to fix fucked up people.[/QUOTE]

So I said:

[INDENT][I]Well, speak for your own "stupid bleeding heart". Airline security standards DID change after the September 11, 2001, hijackings. Point? Yeah, DUI laws change all the time? Point? Are these examples of humans learning and evolving and becoming better, by making "better" laws? THAT is fucked-up thinking. If you think that when 'enough people suffer and die' that SOMEHOW this will MOTIVATE people to DO THE RIGHT THING, you are in LA-LA LAND and ought to try to STAY THERE--remember, your ignorance is blissful, you said.[/I][/INDENT]

Okay. I said it. On TWO issues mentioned, I said that they were POINTLESS, and I mimicked the idea (the, oh, backwards idea, kind of like the newspaper analogy you made...) that Cosmic could say that the more suffering humans experience over the centuries then more the chance humans will somehow fucking "change". History does not prove this. If we are not equally as violent a species by this day in Time as ever before, then we're MORE violent. Good? No. And I didn't say so. Don't make it seem like I did.

I [I]did[/I] say humans have a hard time agreeing...

[QUOTE=ANDSTEVE]In case none of you noticed all this guy (cosmic castaway) was trying to say was "Hey this really terrible thing happened, and it got me to thinking that it would be good if we could try and make things a little better." And then people like you come in and you bash because someone was trying to do something positive for once. Someone stoped trying to be cool and original, and started caring. Just because he signed up for the free month does't mean jack-shit. It's called fucking advertising. Get people to try out the site for a month FREE and we'll probably get a few people hooked enough to get them to start paying and participating too. Just because you have been around longer and pay doesnt mean you have the right to be degrading to the people who are trying it out for a month. Dont forget that we are all here, because we are all fans.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't trying to "[I]bash[/I]" anyone, even old Cosmic, "[I]because someone was trying to do something positive for once. Someone stoped trying to be cool and original, and started caring.[/I] " That's sweet (and don't fault me for being sincere...). Cosmic can be as uncool and unoriginal as they want, and care about it all they want. I'm not going to stop them, my words won't stop them, and from the way you defended this "unknown", neither could you, if you two disagree. So, there. Sorry. We ALL say our points. Some joke, some don't. Some do both. Some get mad. Some get self-righteous and indignant. Not me, I'm a joker that's serious. I care. Thanks for thinking badly of me, that was kinder and gentler. Cosmic's way just wasn't the manifesto I was looking to get behind and support. Sure, it'd be nice. Fucking [I]Imagine[/I], man. Just [I]Imagine[/I]. It isn't happening in the eyes of the posters that disagreed, me included. That's all.

OH, wait, it isn't. I have "[I]been around longer[/I]". And that means nothing. Your opinion is yours and I can't and won't stop it. This leap-at-me was your 3rd post. I'm not going to say anything more about "who-has-been-here-the-longest", because I never did to begin with.

And I'm never claimed any seniority over you or Cosmic, not here. I was never trying to be "degrading to the people who are trying it out for a month" by speaking my opinion in a discussion. And the "[I]Dont forget that we are all here, because we are all fans[/I]."-part... No, I'm here because I write, and I happened upon a website dedicated to a writer(that I sometimes enjoy), a fanbase website that was an excellent place to delve into writing-issues and discussions of such (and other bullshit, like this...) with other like-mided ones. Like, maybe, you. Or... maybe not. Least not on this issue. I wasn't hurting anyone, nor saying the world was shit. I was critical of Cosmic's (perceived) naive vision of what they (so Palahniuk-esque) claimed should be MY view of the world and violence. It wasn't, isn't, and all I did was say so. In so many words.

So Cosmic, if you're out there, I offer a truce. I never disliked you, I only disliked your view. Are we still cool as humans? Please say YES, or someone else might jump me and make me type this much shit again. Please. I agree to disagree.

[CENTER]( )[/CENTER]

Okay. Then, finally:

[QUOTE=ANDSTEVE]Yea so maybe I am being an emo piece of shit for defending someone I dont even know, but seriously people, have more fucking faith in the god damn human race. Once you realize that the worlds not coming to an end, it wont need saving.[/QUOTE]

You said that like you expected me to say, You're "an emo piece of shit". I'm not, and I wouldn't have.

[QUOTE=again.... ANDSTEVE!]"Once you realize that the worlds not coming to an end, it wont need saving."[/QUOTE]

You said it. Now, go tell Cosmic.

Later.

i stopped reading
can i kill this person, please

[QUOTE=Atomos]i stopped reading
can i kill this person, please[/QUOTE]
that'd be insensitive. also, it's "may I" not "can I".

[QUOTE=alex cassun]that'd be insensitive. also, it's "may I" not "can I".[/QUOTE]
no, i know i'd be allowed to, so can i do it now?
dont lecture me about sensetvity, alex. if anyone has a right to have a bitter outlook in this thread its the crippled guy with cronic heartburn and migrains

[QUOTE=Atomos]no, i know i'd be allowed to, so can i do it now?
dont lecture me about sensetvity, alex. if anyone has a right to have a bitter outlook in this thread its the crippled guy with cronic heartburn and migrains[/QUOTE]
ha! everyone's got their own sets of challenges, you getting headaches and heartburn don't give you any more a right to bitch than me growing up with an insane mother and an alcoholic father, or any one else here with their own personal miseries they see as epic and grande. i'm not preaching about sensitivity, i'm making a joke because everyone who's posted in this thread is a fucking idiot.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]ha! everyone's got their own sets of challenges, you getting headaches and heartburn don't give you any more a right to bitch than me growing up with an insane mother and an alcoholic father, or any one else here with their own personal miseries they see as epic and grande. i'm not preaching about sensitivity, i'm making a joke because everyone who's posted in this thread is a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]
o, i realize. thats why i only listed trivial things

[QUOTE=Atomos]o, i realize. thats why i only listed trivial things[/QUOTE]
oh okay then. i guess going back to the original conversation: more laws aren't going to do shit to help keep kids safe. parental supervision and responsibility might, but that'd be a little too much to ask. people who do these sort of things know what they're doing is wrong and don't care. so telling them again by making yet another law isn't going to accomplish anything.

[QUOTE=sixteentimes]I really disagree with this. People are products of their environments. No one is born corrupt or evil. Read any of the stories about serial killers on crimelibrary.com, all born into rotten households or raped by their pastors or watched their mothers waste away to cancer. Children are not born rotten. They're born children.[/QUOTE]

and children aren't born with mental disabillities?
and all children process pain exactly the same way?

It is quite clear all of serial killers had a mental or behavioral problems. This problem could have existed earlier. All the enviroment did was cement those problems.

This is even truer on killers who can't even stop themselves from killing.

The thing is we all have that killer instinct. Some more than others.
You can say that if you shelter a human being all his life it will never get so angry, to ever consider killing.

but that won't work on every human being. Since that killer instinct may even come out illogically.

To Ralph ,

"So Cosmic, if you're out there, I offer a truce. I never disliked you, I only disliked your view. Are we still cool as humans? Please say YES, or someone else might jump me and make me type this much shit again. Please. I agree to disagree."

I wasn't telling everyone or anyone that they should have to agree with my views. From both your responses it quite obvious that you and some of the others missed the point.

Guess I'm not very good at making them.

I'm not going to return bitterness with bitterness.

I saw something that truly upset me, not just at the world or at the people involved but in myself. I vented. I really would like to hear others suggestions on how to solve problems like these. Instead, some of you just read it as an excuse to shit on me.

Thanks.

Maybe it's easier to believe that nothing we do can change anything. Maybe it's easier look at everything wrong in the world and shrug and say " Oh well. No point in trying to change things. No point in helping those that need help, or protecting those that need protecting . No point in taking a shower or changing my underwear becuase my balls will just stink again tomorrow anyway. No point in brushing my teeth. No point in talking to the pretty girl she'll just reject me, and if she doesn't somewhere down the line she'll realize she's too good for me and leave me forlorn and heartbroken. Shit . There's no reason to do...Anything."

A smarter person than myself ( and there are tons of them) once said : If nothing we do matters... Then the only thing that matters, is what we do.

Also, I like people telling me what I can't do, it motivates me more than anything else.
This is me, agreeing to disagree.

[QUOTE=Cosmic Castaway]To Ralph ,

I wasn't telling everyone or anyone that they should have to agree with my views. From both your responses it quite obvious that you and some of the others missed the point.

Guess I'm not very good at making them.

I'm not going to return bitterness with bitterness.

I saw something that truly upset me, not just at the world or at the people involved but in myself. I vented. I really would like to hear others suggestions on how to solve problems like these. Instead, some of you just read it as an excuse to shit on me.

Thanks.
...

Also, I like people telling me what I can't do, it motivates me more than anything else.
This is me, agreeing to disagree.[/QUOTE]

You know, I realized that. Thus, the truce. What did I realize? Well, you're serious about this, and so no, you don't deserve anyone jumping you. I wasn't trying to. In all sincerity, I apologize if I did (or seem to have). I'll keep hearing you out, and if I agree or disagree, I'll say something. But I won't do it the way(s) I did. Your first post was right, in an idealistic way. And maybe I'm jaded. Bottom line, though, speak your mind. I'm not trying to stop that. Thanks for responding, man (and I say that to everyone, whether you're a male or not).

Yeah, we all need to vent once in a while , it's healthier to take it out on a sorry assed June promo-newbie fucktard, than one of the regulars.

I do understand.

We're cool. And I'm open to any ideas you might have to improve the world.

[QUOTE=Cosmic Castaway]Yeah, we all need to vent once in a while , it's healthier to take it out on a sorry assed June promo-newbie fucktard, than one of the regulars.

I do understand.

We're cool. And I'm open to any ideas you might have to improve the world.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear. Well, except for the part about jumping "a sorry assed June promo-newbie fucktard". I wouldn't categorize you as that, nor AndSteve, nor any of the ones I really [I]would[/I] like to label-and-ignore. You say you're here for a while to come, and that's good. And I'm not talking at you, I'm talking with you.

I shouldn't have been so pithy in my answers. I don't say [I]that the world is the way that it is and that's that[/I], so much as the human mind is the way that it is and that's that. Not that that-is-THAT, but beyond [I]my own mind[/I], what can I do? No one can do anything but act as "good" as they can in their own life and in their own interactions. Protesting, boycotting, revolting: all good ideas--and sometimes they ARE the best way to remedy a grievance. But as far as violence and the allure of violence goes, most people, I think, are unable to stop it, except on a personal level. Still it won't come about "collectively". I think one can only do what they can with what is around them, within their grasp, not around the world. Violence intrigues me. I am constantly amazed at the ingenuity that humans have for creating ways to harm others and by the reasons (whether I think them good or bad) that they "believe in" to justify why they feel and act these ways. So without the people that report or write about these things (myself included), people like me wouldn't have the ability to know the "bad" things that can be in the minds of others... until they experience them in their own lives. I've been lucky, and nothing terribly violent has ever affected me--not in my own life and within the small orb I've around me. I know too many people that aren't living anymore, true, and I have seen terrible violence firsthand. But nothing along the lines of what happened to the girl you mentioned in your first post. Still, I'd rather be knowledgeable of it's reality than to be ignorant. Others that choose the opposite, good for them. I have kids, two, and they're young (and so am I), and all I can really do about violence in humans is to acknowledge it and try to teach my kids what I know of it. It's all I can do to make the world a better place: be a good parent and a good person to those around me. It's all I can think of to do, least all that has a [I]chance[/I] of being effective. Your concern (for others and for your own motivations towards violence and interest in it) is good. You're trying to work it out, and you brought it here, and people said what they said, and will. I don't think many of them are wrong... and neither do I think you are for proposing your view. Humans have just never been able to collectively get it together. They've tried, and it has turned to selfishness and isolation from reality. All I can think to do is try not to become this way myself, while maintaining a balance with what's around me. The rest is not something I can control. Muchless a group of me's.

I guess that's all I can think of as far as ways to improve the world.

[QUOTE=AndSteve]Ralph,
I owe you an apology too, since we're passing them out. I jumped down your throat and misconstrued what you said. I didnt mean to take all the anger I had for everyone else who continualy bash other people on you. Well, heres to re-building any bridges that we've burned. Good luck with the writing.[/QUOTE]

No worries. No apologies necessary (but it is appreciated, very much). I guess we kind of bashed each other for bashing... others. Humans can only try to be better than that. So, I'm glad you took a breath and re-examined the topic. [I]I'm glad I did[/I].

And thanks.

[QUOTE=AndSteve] But most of the time, laws will help keep most forms of evil in check.
[/QUOTE]
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