Bush allies illegally helping Nader in Oregon
Complaint filed with Federal Election Commission
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 Posted: 8:19 PM EDT (0019 GMT)
A liberal group says Ralph Nader is benefitting from illegal help from Bush allies in Oregon.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Efforts by two conservative groups to help President Bush by getting independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader on the ballot in the key battleground state of Oregon prompted a complaint to the Federal Election Commission Wednesday by a liberal watchdog group. Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) said phone banks encouraging Bush supporters to attend a Nader nominating convention last Saturday amounted to an illegal in-kind contribution to the Nader campaign by the Oregon Family Council and Oregon Citizens for a Sound Economy.
Bush's re-election campaign and the Oregon Republican Party were also named in the complaint for allegedly participating in the effort. The complaint alleges the groups worked together to promote Nader and siphon potential votes away from Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.
Melanie Sloan, executive director of CREW, said the two groups, though non-profit, are still considered corporations, "and corporations are strictly prohibited from making contributions to political campaigns."
While the Bush campaign had no immediate comment, Nader spokesman Kevin Zeese called the allegations "absolute nonsense."
"We didn't work with any Republican groups or any corporations or non-profits trying to get people to come to our event," Zeese said. "We reached out to our constituency and got our people out there." To get on the ballot, the Nader campaign has to get the signatures of 1,000 registered voters in one day or submit 15,000 signatures statewide. On Saturday, Nader supporters held a convention in Portland to try to get the necessary signatures.
While more than 1,100 people attended, the signatures are still being verified, so it is unclear if the effort was successful.
Whether Nader gets on the ballot in Oregon could be critical in deciding which candidate carries the state and its seven electoral votes. In 2000, Democrat Al Gore beat Bush by less than 7,000 votes in the state.
Published polls show Bush running neck-and-neck with Kerry, with Nader drawing 3 percent to 5 percent of the vote.
The Oregon Family Council is a conservative Christian group that opposes same-sex marriage and abortion rights. Oregon Citizens for a Sound Economy is the state chapter of a national anti-tax group headed by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey.
Both groups openly admit they urged supporters to show up at the Nader event.
"We called about 1,000 folks in the Portland area and said this would be an opportunity to show up to provide clarity in the presidential debate," said Matt Kibbe, president of CSE, who denied the the calls were coordinated with either the Bush or the Nader campaigns.
Kibbe said Nader "forces John Kerry to explain where he is on things.''
In its complaint, CREW also charged that the state GOP encouraged the Oregon Family Council to make the phone calls, which it said amounted to "illegally conspiring" with an outside group to evade a ban on state parties using soft money to send out public communications.
"What the Oregon Republican Party could not do directly, it could not do indirectly," the complaint said.
CREW also cited comments by Bush spokesman Steve Schmidt that campaign volunteers, though not paid staffers, may have made phone calls from the campaign's office. The costs of those calls, including the preparation of phone lists and scripts, should have been reported to the FEC as an in-kind contribution from the Bush campaign to Nader, which would be illegal if it amounted to more than $5,000, the complaint said.
Sloan also told CNN that she is convinced the phone banks were coordinated between the Bush campaign, the Oregon GOP and the two groups, saying "it can't be a coincidence ... that they're all making the same phone calls at the same time." However, she said it is unclear whether the Nader campaign was involved.
"If Ralph Nader gets on the ballot, he would pull thousands of liberal votes that would otherwise go to Kerry and perhaps cause President Bush to lose the election," read one script for the phone campaign, which CREW cited in its complaint.
CREW has previously filed complaints against both the Nader and Bush campaigns, alleging illegal assistance from tax-exempt corporations. Zeese, noting that the group has never moved against a Democrat, called it a partisan organization, and he accused Democrats of trying to interfere with the Nader signature drive.
Democrats have been trying to persuade Nader supporters not to back his independent bid this year, arguing that it will help Bush by dividing the liberal vote in closely fought states.
Yeah, vote your concience, mofos. 
When conservative groups send Bush supporters to a Nader event, are they not afraid that Nader might even convince one of those voters? Democrats, who are convinced a Republican will always be a Republican, call foul play. "Reds don't vote for Blues." Good call, Dems, foul play is right. Republicans are breaking soft money laws. "But since Reds don't vote for Blues, let's not focus our attention on accusing Republicans of breaking soft money laws. That's not gonna win votes! Instead, let's slander the Nader campaign and win back our Blue votes because #1 Everyone who votes for Nader is Blue and #2 Those votes are ours because we're Blue." This is a great conspiracy for the duopoly. Nader is trying (with much difficulty) to get on the ballot, and nothing more, according to this article, and secondly, if Nader had 3 to 5%, he would have no problem getting on the ballot. The Republicans stir trouble. The Democrats play along. If any kind of third party gets a holding on elections, both parties are equally at risk. Despite Nader having nothing to do with this Rep & Dem issue, CNN libels the Nader campaign by associating it with illegal activity, activity that was committed by groups who are not the Nader campaign. The FEC hasn't even responded to the complaint yet so this isn't even a crime but an accusation!
If the Democrats can't win this election, good fucking riddance. Vote Nader, [i]especially[/i] in Texas.
It has nothing to do with conscience and everything to do with voting for someone who best represents you politically.
Granted, this is obviously an attempt by the Republicans in Oregon to get votes away from Sen. Kerry, but anything that gives people [B]more choice[/B] is a GOOD thing.
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
Wher'es Moon I need her
i am still whos istentalare goood.
*sigh*
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
[QUOTE=Ozymandias]It has nothing to do with conscience and everything to do with voting for someone who best represents you politically.
Granted, this is obviously an attempt by the Republicans in Oregon to get votes away from Sen. Kerry, but anything that gives people [B]more choice[/B] is a GOOD thing.[/QUOTE]
If your concience is best represented by a shill, then best of luck to you. As to choice, it's like going to a Chinese restaurant.... They offer you fried rice or steamed rice. Year after year, fried rice or steamed rice, fried rice or steamed rice, fried rice or steamed rice... Nader comes along and [b]he's[/b] got a big, steaming bowl of rice pilaf.
I hope you like rice...
Rice pilaf is actually my favorite. No, really. Sit down.
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
im a fried rice guy. always have been, always will be. those steamed rice guys, they're just goddamn antiamerica, to tell the truth. each and every one of them steamed rice eaters should be tried for treason.
Steamed for me. Fried rice just tries to pretend to be something it's not, and always disappoints. Pilaf is just gross.
fried rice pretends its 'somethings its not'? tell me then, what exactly does it 'pretend' to be? campbells soup? you and your ilk are simply trying to keep our entire population from evolving. steamed rice is the old way. its people like you who'd like to return to the days when so called doctor's would drill holes in their so called patients heads in order to let the demons out. you're a terrorist!
More details from today:
[b]Nader's "Grassroots" Campaign... Courtesy of the GOP[/b]
- by Jeff Cohen, AlterNet. Posted July 20, 2004.
Ralph Nader's campaign now depends on folks like Dick Armey and the Reform Party to get on state ballots.
Four years after the Florida debacle, with nearly all of Ralph Nader's longtime progressive allies now tactically supporting Kerry in swing states to retire the Bush regime, the Nader campaign has created none of the grassroots thunder of 2000. Indeed, it has been a hollow enterprise – attracting a few left-wing sects and polemicists.
Given this vacuum, it's no surprise that pro-Bush forces have rushed to Nader's side. What is a surprise is the brazenness of their support. And, how readily Nader has accepted the rightwing help.
Nader has complained – correctly in at least one state – of covert Democratic efforts to keep him off ballots. But in Michigan, he has no such excuse. In that key battleground state, after Nader volunteers had collected only 5,000 of the 30,000 signatures necessary to get on the ballot, Michigan's Republican Party came to the rescue with 43,000 Nader signatures.
Nader campaign spokesman Kevin Zeese initially took a principled stand, telling Associated Press last week that the campaign would not accept the GOP's help: "We won't take any signatures from them." But within hours he flip-flopped, AP reported, saying the campaign might accept the Republican signatures if state officials did not certify Nader as the nominee of the Reform Party in Michigan, which is split into two factions.
Yesterday, team Nader made it official: They'll accept the "independent" ballot line provided by the Republican signatures in case they fail to get the Reform Party nomination: "We have to get on the ballot somehow," said Zeese.
If Nader picks up the Reform line in Michigan, it will be with the strong backing of the party's national chairman, Shawn O'Hara, who told a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reporter: "I'm doing everything I can to make sure John Kerry never gets around the White House." O'Hara is a former evangelist who now says he supports abortion rights but admits he once supported the execution of doctors and nurses who perform abortions. (The Reform Party, which ran rightwinger Pat Buchanan for president in 2000, still maintains an anti-immigrant stance.)
In Oregon, another swing state where Nader could tip the election to Bush, he only needed to attract 1,000 registered voters to a nominating convention to get on the ballot. Four years ago, 10,000 activists rallied for Nader in Portland. But in April, he couldn't rally even 1,000 supporters.
Once again, the Right rode to the rescue. When Nader made a second attempt at a convention on June 26, Oregon's Republicans enlisted the anti-choice, anti-gay Oregon Family Council and the corporatist Citizens for a Sound Economy to recruit rightwingers to attend and sign Nader's petition. The CSE's phone script asking Republicans to put Nader on the ballot explained the need to "pull some very crucial votes from John Kerry." Nader's Oregon coordinator said he saw nothing wrong with rightwing help: "It's a free country. People do things in their own interest."
With Democrats engaging in dirty tricks of their own in Oregon (a county leader urged Dems in an email to attend but refuse to sign), Nader again fell short of the needed 1,000 – despite the Republican help. Nader's campaign hasn't submitted names from the second convention to state officials, apparently embarrassed at how many will be shown to be registered Republicans.
Citizens for a Sound Economy is a lavishly-funded corporate front group, chaired by former top Republican leader Dick Armey, that lobbies against virtually everything Nader has ever lobbied for. Asked on CNN why such a group would back him, Nader dissembled in the extreme, referring to it as a group "opposed to Congressional pay raises" (perhaps the one issue out of a thousand that Nader and CSE have in common) – as honest as identifying Pat Buchanan as a Palestinian rights advocate.
After Oregon, Armey's army issued a news release pledging to help Nader get on ballots "in key battleground states like Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania and elsewhere."
Besides activists, Republicans are deploying money behind Nader. On July 9, when the San Francisco Chronicle reported that 1 of 10 big Nader donors had also donated to Bush and the Republicans, Nader's vice presidential running-mate Peter Camejo told a Chronicle reporter that the campaign would consider returning money from Republicans hoping to help Bush against Kerry: "We don't want that money."
Days later, Camejo flip-flopped, telling the same reporter: "It is conceivable that pro-Bush, pro-Republicans believe we have a right to be on the ballot. We will not establish lie detector tests for people who give us money."
Camejo's new line was in keeping with Nader's laissez-faire attitude on accepting GOP cash: "Republicans are human beings too," he argued in a recent radio debate.
As a progressive, I've admired Ralph Nader for as many years as I've disliked the corporate centrism of Democrats like John Kerry. But compared to the corporate and religious rightwing forces behind Nader, Kerry is a paragon of progressive virtue.
For many of us inspired by Nader's 2000 campaign, it was easy four years ago to dismiss the charge that "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" as a Democratic defense of the corrupt status quo. Today, the sad reality on the ground is that a vote for Nader in these swing states is a vote for Bush's money, his organization, his rightwing activists.
Jeff Cohen, formerly communications director of Kucinich for President, is a consultant with Progressive Unity Voter Fund, which sponsored the RalphDontRun initiative.
[url]http://www.alternet.org/election04/19290/[/url]
If you dumb motherfuckers hadn't wasted your votes on Gore in 2000 we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. Don't make the SAME FUCKING MISTAKE with Kerry.
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
i voted for nader in 00. im prolly not gonna do it again now, though.
[QUOTE=Ozymandias]It has nothing to do with conscience...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]If your concience[sic] is best represented blippity blah blah...[/QUOTE]
Allow me to visually translate the second quote:
[IMG]http://www.mijnkopthee.nl/images/retard.jpg[/IMG]
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
1) OMEG, you got me, I'm unilingual! Oh, the shame....
2) Here's a list of 500 posts in which I haven't used that pic, with a margin of error of .2%: [url]http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/search.php?do=finduser&userid=2654[/url]
3) When did I say or imply in this topic that if I vote for Nader it would be for any reason other than that I feel he is the best choice, you dumb FUCK? Are you really gullible enough to project your back-asswards opinion onto me?
Try not to be an idiot all of your life, son.
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
[QUOTE=Ozymandias, and edited into a different pic by that little bitch Tuffy, but since changed back by Ozymandias][IMG]http://www.mijnkopthee.nl/images/retard.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You forgot to note that you had changed the pic, let alone give a valid reason. Would it have killed you to act like a man for once in your miserable online existence? This is bordering on an abuse of power in order to settle a petty difference...
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
[QUOTE=Ozymandias][b]Originally Posted by Ozymandias, and edited into a different pic by that little bitch Tuffy, but since changed back by Ozymandias[/b]
You forgot to note that you had changed the pic, let alone give a valid reason. Would it have killed you to act like a man for once in your miserable online existence? This is bordering on an abuse of power in order to settle a petty difference...[/QUOTE]
I didn't change your cute leech pic, Moron. Start eating crow.
1. So your first post was fuckiung meaningless.
2. Like 98% (give or take 5%) of this list (wherein you post the same goddamned pic on more than one other occasion. Learn the word 'hyperbole', "genius".)
3. "It has nothing to do with conscience, blah, drool, blah... Nader represents me politically, etc.)" Post #17, above. Or do you not realize what you quote when you quote so cute? Do you even know what Nader's platform is? Could you share that with us please? You contardict yourself, and have the gall to call me gullible, "back-asswards" (you so clevah!), and an idiot? An idiot, to me, seems to be someone who hangs around in the New Members forum and flames every newbie that logs on since they are the only ones remotely impressed by his bullshit.
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]I didn't change your cute leech pic, Moron. Start eating crow.[/QUOTE]
If you didn't then either some other mod changed it (a scarier proposition) or the link inexplicably changed. If I was incorrect in accusing you, it was not a huge stretch to assume such a thing since the pic turned into something which you had referenced in your last post.
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
Fair enough.
More likely, however, [url]www.mijnkopthee.nl[/url] uses a script that screws with external linking.
Can we just forget this a fussin' and a feudin' and twist again like we did last Summer?
It's not easy having a good time.
Even smiling makes my face ache.
Dealio.
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]Yeah, vote your concience, mofos. ;)[/QUOTE]
You could counterweight this by voting Libertarian with me...
The LP (and some other third parties) actually owes a lot to the nemesis of third parties, Ross Perot. In '92, when he ran for Pres, the piece of shit brought out a bunch of malcontents who weren't particularly well informed (as, for instance, to how the crooked bastard got his money), but his pseudo-movement hadn't blossomed into a political party for Jesse Ventura and Pat Buchanan yet. So even as badly as Perot managed to run his so-called campagin, he brought out a lot of voters.
Pissed off voters.
They voted for Perot not because they believed in him, but because they believed (in my view correctly) that the Democrats and Republicans were both out to screw them.
So they voted for Perot, then went down the ballot and lookd for other non-Depublican/Republocrat candidates.
Ballot access had always been hard for the LP, gathering sigs on petitions, all that. But most states have laws that grant ballot access to a party that can draw 2% or 5% of the vote. The 'none of the above' votes the LP got in '92 got us ballot access for years to come in a lot of states.
My point is, if Nader is good for Bush, that means the left is not really represented. Likewise if the Libertarians or American Taxpayers Union or any number of other fringe right groups are a menace to Bush, then Bush is not doing anything like justice to his so-called conservative constituency.
Kerry could fire back by secretly supporting the LP or other far right candidates, in hopes of drawing votes away from W.
Not that it will make any difference to guys like me who vote their conscience. You're only throwing your vote away if you dislike the status quo and vote for a major party that's dedicated to its perpetuation.
When we call soccer 'football' the terrorists have won.
all i can say to this is if the republicans want to destroy our antiquated 2 party electoral system by helping push votes to 3rd party candidates, all the better for america.
dude i live in texas