Beheading
CNN article read full article [url=http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/]here[/url]
His captors said the United States refused to exchange him for prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison. A senior U.S. official told CNN he does not believe that to be true.
The captors also issued a direct statement to President Bush: "The worst is coming and, God willing, the tough days are still to come. You and your soldiers will regret the day that you touched the ground of Iraq."
In the video, a man identifies himself as Nicholas Berg, 26, of Pennsylvania and is shown sitting in an orange jumpsuit in front of five armed, hooded men.
The one standing directly behind Berg reads a statement identifying himself, and then Berg is pushed to the floor.
Berg is heard screaming as his throat is cut. One of the captors then holds up his severed head.
Warning;
anyone that searches for the video online, it's very graphic. I know that sounds obvious, but believe me it's extremely graphic. I'm at a lost of words for a reaction to this story.
have you seen the vid popcult?
link?
life's pretty straight without vidalia :You_Rock_
[QUOTE=Kit!]have you seen the vid popcult?[/QUOTE]
yes.
through a blogger. it's the full version.
links have been taken down from the source I used.
[Mod Note: If you click below, you [u]will[/u] be able see the video in question. It is ugly. If you have never seen someone held down and had their head sawn-off with a large knife, you may want to ask yourself "Do I [i]really[/i] want to see such a thing?" Some doors, once opened, can't be closed. - Tuffy]
[url]http://www.ogrish.com/ogrish-dot-com-american_beheading_in_iraq.wmv[/url]
holy fuckin' shit!
i'm gonna eat your children!
abusing and beating their people is compelely justified now. my feeling are wearing off now. i feel like a should vomit or something. or maybe i'm just hungry.
i'm gonna eat your children!
Yes, [i]this[/i] will teach us for putting ladies undergarments on prisoners's heads. And is why we will [b]not[/b] win this "War On Terrorism".
dear lord
i love Ogrish
but dear lord anyway
Makes the Pearl beheading look tame somehow, doesn't it?
Why do I always look at this shit?
[QUOTE=tad_fitzsimmins]abusing and beating their people is compelely justified now. my feeling are wearing off now. i feel like a should vomit or something. or maybe i'm just hungry.[/QUOTE]
you redneck piece of trash
why do you tihnk this bullshit keeps going on?
binary thought like that
"them vs us" "those people"
how does this guy getting killed justify the torturing of completely unrelated people?
what if some iraqi dude saw those pictures and decided it justified cutting your balls off?
This is more than enough of a reason to leave IRAQ. Thanks a lot Bush.
That's the most fucked up thing I have ever seen. I kind of wish I didn't watch that. What a bunch of fucking savages.
[QUOTE=rjw104]That's the most fucked up thing I have ever seen. I kind of wish I didn't watch that.[/QUOTE]
My warning didn't help, I take it?
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]My warning didn't help, I take it?[/QUOTE]
Yeah i read the warning but I had to watch it.
[QUOTE=kl0pper]you redneck piece of trash
why do you tihnk this bullshit keeps going on?
binary thought like that
"them vs us" "those people"
how does this guy getting killed justify the torturing of completely unrelated people?
what if some iraqi dude saw those pictures and decided it justified cutting your balls off?[/QUOTE]
for right now, fuck you! i'm busy right now i'll deal with you later.
i'm gonna eat your children!
I haven't seen the thing.. and probably won't watch it.. because I already feel sick and frustrated everytime I hear about someone being killed or oppressed or hurt because of someone else's ideas.. I mean.. damn it.. god fucking damn it.
Just another cycle.
[QUOTE=kl0pper]you redneck piece of trash
why do you tihnk this bullshit keeps going on?
binary thought like that
"them vs us" "those people"
how does this guy getting killed justify the torturing of completely unrelated people?
what if some iraqi dude saw those pictures and decided it justified cutting your balls off?[/QUOTE]
Exactly. What tad said is the same thing these people were saying when they decided to do this.
And now they're thinking of releasing more pictures of the abuse? Are we really that thickheaded? The abuse of the prisoners didn't justify the beheading, but it is why it happened. Whether it was right or not. They beheaded someone, do you really think they were waiting for a very justifiable American action to do this?
I haven't watched it, I might. Jeremy watched it last night and wouldn't show it to me.
Abusing the prisoners wasn't nearly as bad as this, obviously. But they don't care. And obviously abusing more prisoners (WHO DIDN'T BEHEAD THE GUY) will only make it worse. They'll take any excuse they can get. And the pictures that were released to the media about the prisoner abuse, isn't all that happened. There are hundreds more that congress is supposedly looking at right now, or an hour ago. And I think I heard on the news about actual physical abuse.
And it doesn't matter who these prisoners are. The reason we agree to do this (other than for moral reasons) is so the other countries don't do it to us.
[QUOTE=NuksVomika]I haven't seen the thing.. and probably won't watch it.. because I already feel sick and frustrated everytime I hear about someone being killed or oppressed or hurt because of someone else's ideas.. I mean.. damn it.. god fucking damn it.[/QUOTE]
I know what you mean. Other than all the Americans that are taught to hate "them" and all of the middle eastern people who are taught to hate Americans...wars are really only between two people. So why can't they just fight and get it all over with.
(yeah I know, it's more complicated than that, but still - it basically comes down to that if you take out all the people who are only indirectly involved)
Ok. Just watched the video.
I don't think we need to get out of Iraq, I think we just need to do a better job. We need to do something different. I don't really know. It just seems like we're going about this like we're fighting people who are like us when it's a completely different culture. I don't understand how anyone can do that without caring...how those other guys could stand there while they did it.
This wasn't even someone that was over there trying to hurt them - he was building stuff - putting up towers? I think?
We CAN'T get out after this - that means that all they have to do is kill an innocent person to get what they want when they see that it works.
The bad thing is - these types of people are the ones in control of that country right now - because there's nobody to put them in prison like we (mostly) do here. They can't all be like that, it's just who's getting all the attention. There has to be tons of people in that country that just want to get up - go to work - spend their holidays with their families, get married, have babies, etc.
Hopefully all that made sense, I'm not really thinking straight just yet.
thank you psychokeety.
i feel the same way you do.
i just couldn't put words to my thoughts.
I believe I'll avoid watching the video.. i've seen enouph of that kind of bullshit to know that watching death is not healthy. My heart goes out to the guy and all--but hey.. I'll bet those terrorists thought of themselves as completely justified--serving their god, even. That is their reality, this is ours--nothing short of total annialation (sp..
) of their reality would change that, im sure. Now, don't get me wrong, im not saying kill them all, but that is the way it is.
As far as I'm concerned, well.. fuck it--it doesn't matter anyway, now does it? My reality isn't bush's reality, or anyone elses so what I could have to say would have very little relevance.
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
.jpg "Fino35's picture"){kind=avatar}
After reading all the reactions, I've got to watch it.
I can't wait to get home.
We should get out of that country. They hate us, especially after what we did to their prisoners and the fact that we invaded Iraq under a big fat ugly neocon lie. The longer we stay the longer this will go on until the draft is back. I wish our soldiers would get on board their planes and fly the hell out of there since the "commander in chief" has no credibility. What about the innocent children getting caught in the crossfire or our soldiers getting limbs blown off. We don't see that on the evening news do we? Bush doesn't want us to see what's really going on because he's over his head in this mess.
That's a bit of an over-simplistic view, I'm afraid.
Here's another one:
We should get the hell out of Iraq.
...and then nuke the Mideast into a giant plain of glass.
So, what do you think should be done Tuffy? We're all buzzing at work about this, too.
I'm sure those videos were the tip of the iceberg. On both sides. Not that I plan on watching, and thanks for the warning.
[QUOTE=Lisa]So, what do you think should be done Tuffy? [/QUOTE]
Sweetiebabycookiehoney, if I knew that, I would be God.
Answer #2:
The situation is fucked. We can't [b]un[/b]topple Saddam. Best would to be to do what we claimed we were going to do when we went in - as quickly as possible set-up a decent, stable, representative government. Then we pat em on the back, wish em luck, and then leave quickly while they're still shocked that we actually gave them the keys to the car.
This, of course, will solve none of our (the US's) problems with the spector of International Terrorism.
[QUOTE=Tuffy the Dump Truck]Answer #2:
The situation is fucked. We can't [b]un[/b]topple Saddam. Best would to be to do what we claimed we were going to do when we went in - as quickly as possible set-up a decent, stable, representative government. Then we pat em on the back, wish em luck, and then leave quickly while they're still shocked that we actually gave them the keys to the car.
This, of course, will solve none of our (the US's) problems with the spector of International Terrorism.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Terrorism is like a virus.
I still have that stupid-ass image of the marine who after toppling the Statue, stuck our own U.S. flag. . .a foreshadowing of the immaturity and the lack of diplomacy, intelligent leadership, etc. . . that could only lead to this.
It's really not surprising that they hate us. It was bound to happen. When we started thinking we were better then everyone else and decided to go around "policing" and forcing democracy on everyone. not saying that democracy is not a good form of government, but you can't change a country in such a short time from being killed for opinions to suddenly being free with them... I mean, it's great we want everyone to have freedom, but all we're basically doing is conquering countries and making them think like we do...these people were raised with different values, different traditions, different philosophies and religions and ways of thinking and doing things. if they have problems with they're country, let them deal with it in their own way. sure, help them IF THEY ASK...but don't force it...as a country we are just too damned arrogant. I know we have a lot of freedoms here, and believe me, I'm grateful, but this country's government stopped 'serving the people' the way it was meant to a while ago. Anyway, there's my two cents...heh.
And i saw the footage...just horrific. It fills me with dread really that we are fighting against people so convinced that they're right, so blindly following their religion that they'll go on suicide missions and kill in cold blood just to get a point across. They're martyrs and heros for their religion/beliefs, and that's the most dangerous kind of enemy.
"I go to the beat of a different drummer. Like that guy from Foghat. He comes in: "Guhgida guhgida guhgida. Guhgida da-guhgida. Duhgada guhgada guhgada." Then the lead singer guy says "On base guitar...". "Guhgida da-guhgida." Then all the other band members come out. That's my drummer. Not your little "boom boom tsst, boom boom tsst". I don't know his name, but he's really good. ~Carl, Aqua Teen Hunger Force
[URL=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/fan/workshop/view.php?id=1835]Mediocrity[/URL]
Yeah.. democracies all well and good.. but essentially flawed. What do you do with that percentage who voted against the current trend? Force them to follow? Yup, pretty much. That's where our ideals spawn from (partially) and I'm sure it's part of the reason we force democracy on everyone.. kind of a "You were on the losing side of the vote! Get with the fucking program already!" additude.
I give you all a century, just a century. Things are gonna get rough..
Right now I’m going to do something I don’t do very much. I apologize what I said was a stupid over-reaction, I was mad at myself for watching it and them for doing it. It does not justify any of the things we’ve done to them and their country. I don’t suggest anyone watch the whole video. But I can’t make chooses for you, nor do I want to. I am in no way a redneck piece of shit. My sincerest apologizes.
i'm gonna eat your children!
i just hope youse guys can accept my apology. what i said was incrediably stupid.
i'm gonna eat your children!
youre alright, man
i take back what i said
[QUOTE=RunAmok]Yeah.. democracies all well and good.. but essentially flawed. [/QUOTE]
You have a better idea, I take it?
There is hope, but not for us.
I don't know if was the quality of the video or what, but it just looked fake. I couldn't hear the guy scream over the "Allah Wacbah!!" chants.
Rating: No fro's, The first faces of death video was more shocking.
[QUOTE=Davros]We should get out of that country. They hate us, especially after what we did to their prisoners and the fact that we invaded Iraq under a big fat ugly neocon lie. The longer we stay the longer this will go on until the draft is back. I wish our soldiers would get on board their planes and fly the hell out of there since the "commander in chief" has no credibility. What about the innocent children getting caught in the crossfire or our soldiers getting limbs blown off. We don't see that on the evening news do we? Bush doesn't want us to see what's really going on because he's over his head in this mess.[/QUOTE]
This would be a good idea if we would've done this BEFORE bombing the hell out of their country.
Now...no. We have to fix what we messed up, especially since we promised to fix it. If we pull out now - they'll still hate us. If we keep doing what we're doing - they'll hate us. We just have to change something - get more support is what I'm thinking. There are real people over there, it's not all people like this. We have to somehow get a govt system going that will arrest and punish these types of people. They just have way too much freedom and control right now.
yes, that's pretty disturbing that anyone would go to such lengths.
as for pulling out, i support that, given a certain amount of time. we cannot just pluck everyone out of iraq and expect them to be able to cope. a better suggestion i've heard, and was supposed to be the original plan for re-establishing an iraqi government, is to slowly phase out our troops, replacing them with more from the UN, and other nations, preferably the iraqi troops we're supposedly educating on how to establish peace. we don't, as a country, have to fix what we did over there, we've caused enough trouble over there as it is under the guise of "fixing it up". it's all good to get in an uproar over 1 of our own people getting killed, but we have to understand that we began this war, we are the ones who decided it was time to send people to change someone else's governmental problems, unasked. there will be deaths, grusome - yes, unwarranted - well yea, but keep in mind it was the decision of our own country to make this half-assed war happen.
Tad's reaction, at its small scale, is a good example of the deshumanising process at work in a violent context as a war. Very instructive.
This is why I don't put the blame entirely on the US soldiers involved, but much more on the army hierarchy that didn't prepare them properly and did not give them the means of accomplishing their mission.
By the way, I chose not to watch the video. I know my limits and not ashamed of this particular one. Moreover I find no justification, in my position, of being part of the strategy behind it.
[QUOTE=franc tireur]Tad's reaction, at its small scale, is a good example of the deshumanising process at work in a violent context as a war. Very instructive.
This is why I don't put the blame entirely on the US soldiers involved, but much more on the army hierarchy that didn't prepare them properly and did not give them the means of accomplishing their mission.[/QUOTE]
very good point. very very true what reaction someone can have to witnessing such violence.
and from what i last heard they still don't know who was in charge of that particular detention facility. i find that to be rather peculiar, as generally the american military is very rigid about the hierarchy and who's holding rank over who and where.
This morning, before I read this thread, I searched for the video on google. Eventually I found a version (that wasn't exceeding its bandwith. There are a HECK of a lot of people out there who cannot prevent morbid curiosity getting the better of them. Myself included.)
Finally, I found it on a site that had the video. I just had to see it.
[url]http://forums.consumptionjunction.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14840[/url]
Genuinely, it may be the most horrifying thing I have seen. Part of that is watching the first minute or so. Berg names himself, tells the camera he has a sister etc. Then he kneels in front of these masked men.
It's horrendous - we know what's about to happen. I almost burst into tears with horror...did he know he was about to be killed? What could possibly have been going through his mind?
Anyway - my sincere advice (and I know that this is often tempts more than repels) is be wary. In many ways I wish I hadn't seen it.
And now onto my next point:
As if that wasn't enough...the forum discussion that follows it is one of the scariest things I have ever read.
The anger we all feel at seeing this, the fear it instills, the desire for revenge...we all feel it. But the reactions it provokes in these people have made we wonder what in Hell can the future hold when an ignorant mass reacts like this? I am stone cold afraid of where this is all leading.
The majority here are probably free-thinkers, intelligent, educated etc. We often like to poke fun at "rednecks" and bovine America/West.
Well take a look at some of the responses on this thread and you'll see what bubbling, seething, unthinking, racist, illogical, savage, Old Testament, retarded, primative, dangerous, fearful, impotent, single-minded, and downright STUPID ideas are ciculating.
This is beyond ridicule. This is utterly terrifying.
[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Well take a look at some of the responses on this thread and you'll see what bubbling, seething, unthinking, racist, illogical, savage, Old Testament, retarded, primative, dangerous, fearful, impotent, single-minded, and downright STUPID ideas are ciculating. [/QUOTE]
Mostly not; if something particular struck you, please quote it. Aside from Tad, who calmed down and apologized, reaction has been more or less what one would expect anywhere that more-or-less thinking people chat - horror at what was done to Nic Berg and horror at what is going on in Iraq.
From his dad
...
Berg described the Patriot Act as a "coup d'etat." He added: "It's not the same America I grew up in."
...
Michael Berg rejected U.S. government claims that his son had never been held by American authorities in Iraq. The Iraqi police chief in the city of Mosul has also contradicted statements by the U.S.-led coalition concerning the younger Berg's detention. "I have a written statement from the State Department in Baghdad ... saying that my son was being held by the military," Berg said. "I can also assure you that the FBI came to my house on March 31 and told me that the FBI had him in Mosul in an Iraqi prison."
[QUOTE=trypdwyre]yes, that's pretty disturbing that anyone would go to such lengths.
as for pulling out, i support that, given a certain amount of time. we cannot just pluck everyone out of iraq and expect them to be able to cope. a better suggestion i've heard, and was supposed to be the original plan for re-establishing an iraqi government, is to slowly phase out our troops, replacing them with more from the UN, and other nations, preferably the iraqi troops we're supposedly educating on how to establish peace. we don't, as a country, have to fix what we did over there, we've caused enough trouble over there as it is under the guise of "fixing it up". it's all good to get in an uproar over 1 of our own people getting killed, but we have to understand that we began this war, we are the ones who decided it was time to send people to change someone else's governmental problems, unasked. there will be deaths, grusome - yes, unwarranted - well yea, but keep in mind it was the decision of our own country to make this half-assed war happen.[/QUOTE]
I think we should pull out. Pull every last GI out of that shit hole. Then put embargoes on the country. We should spend American tax dollars building the Berlin Wall Part 2 around that whole fucking country and we should then watch them starve. NOTHING comes in, NO ONE comes out. They can sit there and tell Allah how badass they are and then they can all starve to death. Really if anything after we build the wall we should airdrop more guns in so they'll kill each other for us. Then, when all of Iraq is dead, we can have oil and build some condos out there.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Lazlosdead/completeLazloSig.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]And now onto my next point:
As if that wasn't enough...the forum discussion that follows it is one of the scariest things I have ever read.
The anger we all feel at seeing this, the fear it instills, the desire for revenge...we all feel it. But the reactions it provokes in these people have made we wonder what in Hell can the future hold when an ignorant mass reacts like this? I am stone cold afraid of where this is all leading.
The majority here are probably free-thinkers, intelligent, educated etc. We often like to poke fun at "rednecks" and bovine America/West.
Well take a look at some of the responses on this thread and you'll see what bubbling, seething, unthinking, racist, illogical, savage, Old Testament, retarded, primative, dangerous, fearful, impotent, single-minded, and downright STUPID ideas are ciculating.
This is beyond ridicule. This is utterly terrifying.[/QUOTE]
I started this thread, have been reading every post, and have no idea where you're coming from. The only "terrifying" response I have seen is yours. You think you know any of us with 2 posts. Get real. Try reading everyone's post. If you find any of them "terrifying," then quote it and discuss. Instead of having a rant with no proof.
[QUOTE=trypdwyre]From his dad[/QUOTE]
"Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance." - Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
[QUOTE=kl0pper]youre alright, man
i take back what i said[/QUOTE]
thanks. i wish i could edited the stupid shit i said.
i'm gonna eat your children!
[QUOTE=Popcultjunkie]I started this thread, have been reading every post, and have no idea where you're coming from. The only "terrifying" response I have seen is yours. You think you know any of us with 2 posts. Get real. Try reading everyone's post. If you find any of them "terrifying," then quote it and discuss. Instead of having a rant with no proof.[/QUOTE]
Sorry people - misunderstanding.
I was referring to the responses to the video on this site:
[url]http://forums.consumptionjunction.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14840[/url]
Which is where I watched the film. I apologise for my rushed out words that caused confusion. I am certainly not having a go at the people on CP.net. I have only recently discovered it and think it is a superb place with plenty of highly intelligent people.
Peace...
[QUOTE=Riddlegimp]Sorry people - misunderstanding.
I was referring to the responses to the video on this site:
[url]http://forums.consumptionjunction.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14840[/url]
Which is where I watched the film. I apologise for my rushed out words that caused confusion. I am certainly not having a go at the people on CP.net. I have only recently discovered it and think it is a superb place with plenty of highly intelligent people.
Peace...[/QUOTE]
it's alright.
but don't ever do that again. 
and they're mad we poked some naked pakis? fuck, man.