Armed forces recruiting just got harder...

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that remind me that I don't know what is happenig to polish soldiers in iraq, I don't know even are they still there.....

its the neverending story of war

ironic, still very sad

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]ironic, still very sad[/QUOTE]

Yes, a solder dying in a war, that's the last thing anyone would expect.

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]its the neverending story of war
ironic, still very sad[/QUOTE]
Where've you been anyway?

Sad for sure, not really ironic though. Given conditions in Iraq any Marine is facing a serious risk there. Anybody see the Baghdad ER show on HBO? Fucking brutal, horrible shit.

EDIT: I was just browsing the cable shows this evening and, lo and behold, Farenheit 9/11 is on tonight. Shotime, 2:00 AM.

i meant it was ironic because he was recruiting others to go to iraq and how great it was to be a marine and how it would advance you in life (which it very well could) and then he dies in iraq, so there fuckass (not you jase)

ive been around, i am believe it or not listening to bucket and on itunes it automatically searches for the band your playing in the music store, apparently there is a southern hick band named bucket also

irony would be him being convinced to leave the marines due to a recruiter asking him to join something else.

And there isn't anything ironic about war, you are going to become a stat in the death toll or you are not. I don't see how that is ironic when he served in the marines for some time and went out to iraq and was unfortunately shortened of his life.

that could work, theres a bunch of scenarios

[QUOTE=UbikRex]irony would be him being convinced to leave the marines due to a recruiter asking him to join something else.

And there isn't anything ironic about war, you are going to become a stat in the death toll or you are not. I don't see how that is ironic when he served in the marines for some time and went out to iraq and was unfortunately shortened of his life.[/QUOTE]
actually even if you live your still going to be a part of the Death Statistics, just in the good side of em

[QUOTE=UbikRex]irony would be him being convinced to leave the marines due to a recruiter asking him to join something else.

And there isn't anything ironic about war, you are going to become a stat in the death toll or you are not. I don't see how that is ironic when he served in the marines for some time and went out to iraq and was unfortunately shortened of his life.[/QUOTE]
i need some boots cause the bullshit in this threads filling up pretty fast since you dropped by.

you know how many marines over there hate the war, and are against it? 99% of them would never coherse someone into joining the war. but that was his job because he was a recruiter, and thats where i found a little irony. but once again you manage to never see past your glasses and abnormally large goofy head

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]i meant it was ironic because he was recruiting others to go to iraq and how great it was to be a marine and how it would advance you in life (which it very well could) and then he dies in iraq, so there fuckass (not you jase)[/QUOTE]

I knew what you meant, no need to get pissy.

I think the father has a very good point, if they pulled out now everything that they've been fighting for so far would go to waste. Iraq would probably end up worse than when the war started.

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]99% [/QUOTE]
[i]Now[/i] wheres the BS and exaggeration coming from ?

alright alright 90

Irony, shmirony, whatever, i don't care anymore. Let's cut throught the bullshit: Staff Sgt. Raymond J. Plouhar may have recruited others with promises of grandeur who are now dead. With over 2500 dead in this war already, the odds are pretty good that at least one of his recruits is amongst the casualties. The interesting question here is: does this diminish the sacrifice of Staff Sgt. Plouhar?

Let's try drawing an analogy...

Until we have a draft back in place, the armed forces is staffed by people who join voluntarily. We've got people in the country who are paid huge salaries to sell us on products that are killing us voluntarily. Cigarettes. Booze. Diabetes-inducing-high-fructose-corn-syrup-infused products. The list goes on and on. If a cigarette advertising agent dies of lung cancer, it's easy to snicker and call that justice.

Why is this different? Cigarette company executives don't exploit the attacks of terrorists to sell cigarettes. Budweiser doesn't appeal to your ideals - they appeal to your vanity or sloth or escapism. Advertising execs get paid a lot more than Staff Sergeants.

Selling people on joining the armed forces is inherently a lot harder than selling someone drugs or candy. I've had ROTC give me the hard sell in the past. They offered to pay for my college in exchange for four years of my life. Still, I passed on the ROTC and got a value meal on the way home. They're fighting an uphill battle.

It sounds like a cop-out, but he was really just doing his job. We need an armed forces. Without their protection, our lives would be a lot like what's going on in the middle east. They have multiple terrorist attacks every week over there. We have nothing like that.

[QUOTE=mikandrews]I think the father has a very good point, if they pulled out now everything that they've been fighting for so far would go to waste.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't his point. He didn't want his son to die for nothing. It's natural to want the death of a loved one to be given in the advancement of a greater good. But in order to do so, more people are going to have to die. So while it's natural to want them to keep fighting, it's also easy to risk the lives of others when you've already lost. His son's a hero, but to ask others to die just so that heroism gets amplified and so you can feel better isn't really a good point, is it?

It's very sad that so many people are dying and even worse, that so many are being seriously wounded. Like 'no legs no more' wounded. That has to be fucked up for a strong, healthy gung ho type fella.

I am totally against many things this government does, but I honor, respect and value the people that protect my freedom of speech and my bombless cafes.

Without the military (and the oceans) this country could easily be a very dangerous place to live.

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]i need some boots cause the bullshit in this threads filling up pretty fast since you dropped by.

you know how many marines over there hate the war, and are against it? 99% of them would never coherse someone into joining the war. but that was his job because he was a recruiter, and thats where i found a little irony. but once again you manage to never see past your glasses and abnormally large goofy head[/QUOTE]

actually, it's been my firsthand experience (i was in fallujah in november 04) that most marines and soldiers aren't against the war. while many have reservations about the reasons the united states went to war, most are intelligent enough to see the value of our presence there and the result of pulling out. regardless of why we went in, we're trying to benefit the iraqis and to pull out would devestate all progress and it would be for naught. and i can say words like "we" and "our" b/c i am a soldier, i did spend a year in iraq and in a few months i'm going back for another year.

my biggest pet peeve right now is when people speak for others. for the record, most iraqis don't want us out of their country, they see that we're trying to help build it up; most armed forces members see the same thing and don't want it to go to waste. until you've been where i've been, seen what i've seen, and met who i've met, you can't speak intelligently about the occurances and the face of war. just because someone watches cnn and fox doesn't give them the entire perpsective, it only gives them the news that will sell to more viewers.

and i'm certain someone will inform me that i've been brainwashed and it's taken well to me. to that, i say i haven't, but when someone's mind is made up there's not convincing them otherwise.

[QUOTE=nickdngr]actually, it's been my firsthand experience (i was in fallujah in november 04) that most marines and soldiers aren't against the war. while many have reservations about the reasons the united states went to war, most are intelligent enough to see the value of our presence there and the result of pulling out. regardless of why we went in, we're trying to benefit the iraqis and to pull out would devestate all progress and it would be for naught. and i can say words like "we" and "our" b/c i am a soldier, i did spend a year in iraq and in a few months i'm going back for another year.

my biggest pet peeve right now is when people speak for others. for the record, most iraqis don't want us out of their country, they see that we're trying to help build it up; most armed forces members see the same thing and don't want it to go to waste. until you've been where i've been, seen what i've seen, and met who i've met, you can't speak intelligently about the occurances and the face of war. just because someone watches cnn and fox doesn't give them the entire perpsective, it only gives them the news that will sell to more viewers.

and i'm certain someone will inform me that i've been brainwashed and it's taken well to me. to that, i say i haven't, but when someone's mind is made up there's not convincing them otherwise.[/QUOTE]
ive never said im for the war and ive never said im against it. i dont speak for those i dont know. i respect every person over there. and it pisses me off when people protest on and on about how ''we shouldnt be there''....or ''we need to leave and never go back''....its all irrelevant. what matters is the men and woman over there now. who are dying and risking their lives 24/7. all i [B]know[/B] is from the returning soldiers ive met and my cousin who had a tour of duty over there. from the first hand stories ive heard, its a lot of what youve said, but they have told me they wouldnt want anyone over there who doesnt have to be. they wouldnt try and recruit. so please dont misunderstand me. besides, this just another thread that got out of hand just because i said somehting is ironic.

i apologize, i misread the intent. i agree whole-heartedly that, from the american perspective, it's really about the people over there. it doesn't matter if anyone is pro or anti war, but it is a bastard of a person that says something negative about a soldier.

i talk to a lot of people thinking about joining the military and i tell them upfront that they will most likely go to iraq or afghanistan. i know too many recruiters who've told people that, with their job (some support job) they'll never deploy. that shit pisses me off b/c that's outright lying and dicking with someone's life, whether they come back unscaved or die, that's atleast a year away from family, friends, and this culture.

[QUOTE=nickdngr]i apologize, i misread the intent. i agree whole-heartedly that, from the american perspective, it's really about the people over there. it doesn't matter if anyone is pro or anti war, but it is a bastard of a person that says something negative about a soldier.

i talk to a lot of people thinking about joining the military and i tell them upfront that they will most likely go to iraq or afghanistan. i know too many recruiters who've told people that, with their job (some support job) they'll never deploy. that shit pisses me off b/c that's outright lying and dicking with someone's life, whether they come back unscaved or die, that's atleast a year away from family, friends, and this culture.[/QUOTE]
its alright, this place is all about missreading people

i wanted to join the army, and i know its gonna sound disrespectful or cowardiss, but i realized i cant, ill be sent right to iraq or afghanistan. and peoples views would be completely different toward the war if it was a "popular" war. ill even admit my views would change, i might have joined. but theres just no reason for me to go there, i wasnt directly affected. but that still doesnt change my view of the soldiers over there now. they deserve everyones respect, cause they dont want to be there anymore than i would.

[QUOTE=jase]That wasn't his point. He didn't want his son to die for nothing. It's natural to want the death of a loved one to be given in the advancement of a greater good. But in order to do so, more people are going to have to die. So while it's natural to want them to keep fighting, it's also easy to risk the lives of others when you've already lost. His son's a hero, but to ask others to die just so that heroism gets amplified and so you can feel better isn't really a good point, is it?[/QUOTE]

Okay, I see what you mean there but I think his comments were aimed at people who might use his sons death to try and gain support for bringing back solders and stopping the war. It's not so much that he wants his sons death to be made meaningless or his heroism to be amplified, it's just he doesn't want his sons death to be used for something that he doesn't believe in and his son didn't believe in.

[QUOTE=mikandrewz]it's just he doesn't want his sons death to be used for something that he doesn't believe in and his son didn't believe in.[/QUOTE]
True, the fact that his son wouldn't want us pulling out is a valid point. The way the article chose to quote him at the end ("If we walk out now, my son died for nothing and that will make me mad.") made his sentiments seem more selfish, but his other statements allude to your point too.

uh i guess i don't care, he was a soldier, and one of the things they do is get killed.

He seemed like such a decent man from what the article pointed out. The world doesn't have enough of them as it is ([I]"Only the good die young?"[/I], that Billy Joel line popped into my head).

i think it was a huge mistake going into Iraq in the first place. i agree that we need armed forces to protect us and do not wish to speak ill of soldiers, but i hardly see the original invasion of Iraq as a protection of the U.S. people. It may have been a protection of big corporate interest, or a protection in the sense of the government covering their asses for putting Saddam into a position of power in the first place.

Now we are what, 4 years? down the road: soldiers are dead, billions of dollars that could have been otherwise put into healthcare, or education, or social security, or protecting our own country have been wasted and the only ones who have so far benefitted have been corporations like Lockheed-Martin who make weapon or big oil companies who are enjoying the profits from the inflation of gas prices.

Meanwhile families have been torn apart, the economy is suffering, the government has a outrageous deficit, and the U.S. seems to be less popular worldwide, generally speaking, than it has in a long time - Bush went against the U.N., against reason, and against the evidence. I know it's useless to rail against his "misinformation" at this point, but the point is it was a bad idea from the beginning and now there is no good way out of it. The whole mess just stinks. [/rant]

that war was prepared in too much hurry, that's for sure.

was it right? Don't know. For sure Sadam is a murder, and someone had to get him sooner or later but it wasn't a good idea to start a total war with iraq.

[QUOTE=jase]If you saw Farenheit 9/11, you may remember the marines who were recruiting outside of a mall, touting the Marines as a great way to advance yourself in life.

[URL=http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/14921198.htm]Well, now one of them has died in Iraq.[/URL]

Regardless of my negative feelings for the war and contempt for the machine that propogates it, this still makes me sad. The guy put his money where his mouth is and paid up. And he sure as hell isn't the only one, just more visible than others.

[I]my eyes are open[/I]

*moment of silence*[/QUOTE]
I haven't been paying attention to the news, so can anyone tell me which side is exploiting his death more, pro war or anti war?

[QUOTE=alex cassun]I haven't been paying attention to the news, so can anyone tell me which side is exploiting his death more, pro war or anti war?[/QUOTE]
I expect the Reps are waiting to see what the Dems will say first so they can pounce on them for being unpatriotic and unsupportive of a hero's family.

I just read this morning that this guy donated a kidney to his uncle back in '98. If anybody's trying to spin a negative on him then all they're going to get is dizzy.

It's a stalemate. Soon the media will stop talking about it and we'll all forget. The end.

as usual