Another Anniversary of 9/11

everyone should just sit back an reminisce on the real sept 11th holiday
[img]http://www.campanellos.com/rose2.jpg[/img]

Encarta's got an article on it. [url]http://encarta.msn.com/guide_911anniversary/September_11_Remembered.html[/url]

I know it was a big deal and a really terrible thing to happen, but I hate how for a while after 9/11 anything even remotely related to the event or terrorism and anything that was anti-American in sentiment was taboo. Kind of like the fuckers who wanted the title of Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers to be changed. It's based on a book. The book was written over half a century ago. I'm sure Tolkien would have rolled over in his grave had they actually changed it.

I also remember the day it actually happened. I was getting ready for school in the morning (Pacific Time) and they said something about it on the radio and I had no idea what the World Trade Center was but it seemed like a pretty big deal so I turned on the tv and it was on practically every channel. It was just a big fucking shocker.

Too bad they seem to have milked it for all it was worth in the long run, though.

we dont call pearl harbor day 12-7
they need to decide what the hell to call today besides 9-11 and it pisses me off when they refer to it as 'the WTC' deal , like nothing else happened at the pentagon an in pennsylvania or whatnot
other things that happened today !
1814 America victorious on Lake Champlain
1847 Stephen Foster's first hit "Oh, Susanna"
1851 The Christiana Riot
1921 Fatty Arbuckle arrested
1965 1st Cavalry Division arrives in country
1971 Nikita Khrushchev dies
1986 Dow Falls Sharply

It definitely changed my world view.

I no longer support the U.S. policy of financing the brutal, racist, Zionist state.

I used to believe it was okay for us to fuck around with third world dictators, I don't think that way anymore.

I used to think the U.S., with its immense military might and economic productivity was a benign entity. I don't know why I would be so naive to think we're immune from the corrupting influences of power.

I used to think the towers would be there as long as I was around to see them.

i cry when i see that king kong remake from the 70's now for different reasons

wattttt??????? dammnnnn i guess alot of pple dont know wat america has done to other countries. the u.s. has replaced nice, democratic leaders with dictators a lot of times in other countries. we dont play fair either. what have the iraquis got to fight back with? oooo the 'nuclear weapons'?

In Iraq right now they are celebrating the anniversary with fireworks!!

No...

Wait...

My mistake...

That's Semtex exploding all over Baghdad...

[QUOTE=lifeoutsidethebox]wattttt??????? dammnnnn i guess alot of pple dont know wat america has done to other countries. the u.s. has replaced nice, democratic leaders with dictators a lot of times in other countries. we dont play fair either. what have the iraquis got to fight back with? oooo the 'nuclear weapons'?[/QUOTE]

First. Read the above posts, particularly Chixulub's.

Second. If you are trying to make what you believe is a salient and orignal point (wait for laughter) Why not drop the hipster bullshit, superstar?

wattttt??????? did he jus' call me a hipster????

that was actually pretty good. but im not offended. i didnt think something well known would be an original point. hipster..hahahaha

nice,chixalub. i really mean it.

Didn't they celebrate this last year? And am I allowed to eat French Fries yet, or is that still anti-Amerikan?

[QUOTE=alex cassun]Didn't they celebrate this last year? And am I allowed to eat French Fries yet, or is that still anti-Amerikan?[/QUOTE]

They'll let you know when it's OK. There will be an alert.

im embarrassed to say i never stopped eating french fries , no im not

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]They'll let you know when it's OK. There will be an alert.[/QUOTE]
What color am I looking for, yellow?

[QUOTE=alex cassun]What color am I looking for, yellow?[/QUOTE]

Poatato Starch off-white.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Poatato Starch off-white.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/12/bush.campaign/link.quayle.jpg[/img] : hello

[QUOTE=karbunkle][img]http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/12/bush.campaign/link.quayle.jpg[/img] : hello[/QUOTE]

Nice.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Poatato Starch off-white.[/QUOTE]
Dude, do I need to ring a bell or something every time I make a clever retort? Yellow? French? C'mon, you disappoint me.

im somewhat detatched from reality especially when its on tv

and this happened on my first day of my senior year in a brand new school.
and i was caught laughing at the plane hitting. thinking it was just some crazy ass drunken pilot or some stupid accident.

i had no idea of the realism of the event untill that one hit in summerset county actually.. i had a camp up in summerset and i go snowboarding up at 7 springs which is like a half an hour away.

i feel terrible about laughing at it still do to this day.

but i still dont care that much, i have respect for the dead and thats it, thats what i feel terrible about is laughing at people dying, not the political part of this and not the intent of the act. just the fact that people died.

it pisses me off that this has be come more of a political holiday than a day of morning for the dead.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]Dude, do I need to ring a bell or something every time I make a clever retort? Yellow? French? C'mon, you disappoint me.[/QUOTE]
i was thinking yellow as in them french fried potaters an mustard
[img]http://www.joehumphrey.com/albums/040404/040404slingblade.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=alex cassun]Dude, do I need to ring a bell or something every time I make a clever retort? Yellow? French? C'mon, you disappoint me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you got me on that one.

But you'll rue the day, Cassun!

[I]Rue[/I] I say!

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Yeah, you got me on that one.

But you'll rue the day, Cassun!

[I]Rue[/I] I say![/QUOTE]
My wit and genius is too much for you. I must go west.

And you're right, whoever you are (you being the person who said what I'm about to agree with): it's definitely more of a time to show your political muscle than it is to mourne people who died.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]My wit and genius is too much for you. I must go west.
[/QUOTE]

Hope you like to swim, genius!

im in palm springs at the moment, so i've got a little bit of wiggle room.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]im in palm springs at the moment, so i've got a little bit of wiggle room.[/QUOTE]

OK, fine. Be that way.

dontchu mean you mean 'be that where'?

[QUOTE=alex cassun]dontchu mean you mean 'be that where'?[/QUOTE]

I mean nothing. I only imply by overt and gratuitous referencing.

I hated putting up my fence the first time. I sure am gonna hate have to refence it later.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]I hated putting up my fence the first time. I sure am gonna hate have to refence it later.[/QUOTE]

I find...

If you get the peasants to do the the intial work, they'll complain a lot less about re-fencing the property when you annex the next fiefdom.

This has been tip #135 from [I]The Enlightend Despot's Handbook[/I]

I celebrated 9/11 with a viewing of Soul Plane.
[IMG]http://cineclick.virgula.terra.com.br/cinemateca/fotos/11726ctz_aol.jpg[/IMG]

Then, if we offer them a god and some religion, we can cut their wages and throw on some more hours of work each day, and we'll get more out of them.

As a firefighter........
I find it offensive that we invade countries that had nothing to do witht he attack.
343 brothers died that day , along with almost 3000 others.
The media keeps exploiting or 'fears', The Dems and GOP exploit our 'fears'.
Fuck duct tape and visquene.
If you fear the terrorists, they have won.
Change our foriegn policy.

just some ramblings

[QUOTE=alex cassun]Then, if we offer them a god and some religion, we can cut their wages and throw on some more hours of work each day, and we'll get more out of them.[/QUOTE]

See, you know the drill...

[QUOTE=Brother Supremo]I celebrated 9/11 with a viewing of Soul Plane.
[IMG]http://cineclick.virgula.terra.com.br/cinemateca/fotos/11726ctz_aol.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

The terrorists [I]have[/I] won, Ross.

Soul Plane was sort of funny and had titty. *[I]sigh[/I]* That's all I've got.

If I don't drink this Venti Cappachino, the terrorists win.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]If I don't drink this Venti Cappachino, the terrorists win.[/QUOTE]

If you don't overpay for it from a vacuous wannbe actress who offers you her headshot, they've won even more.

If she doesn't get a shitty b-movie acting job because of her tits, ass and ability to give great head, then the the terrorists have won.

[QUOTE=alex cassun]If she doesn't get a shitty b-movie acting job because of her tits, ass and ability to give great head, then the the terrorists have won.[/QUOTE]

Thank God. We can always fall back on [I]that[/I].

Visiting Ground Zero this past April was a creepy experience, to compare the divot left behind with the picture of the NYC skyline as it was my whole life until three years ago. When I criticize U.S. foreign policy of the past sixty years by both parties as the ultimate cause of the attack, I'm not diminishing the loss. My first thought when they went down was I know several jazz musicians who live in NYC, who work menial jobs to subsidize their art. I was hoping none of them were working some meaningless temp gig in an office there that day.

For that matter, when it happened, I was 'okay, we know Afghanistan is harboring these cunts, Sudan and probably Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc. Let's bomb them back into the stone age.' But that was a not-particularly-thoughtful knee-jerk reaction, and what is the point of bombing people back into the stone age when they aren't far from it to begin with?

Kind of like when an earthquake makes you question the wisdom of building thousands of condo units right on the fault line, the thing made me really start to think about things in a bigger picture. Not to defend the Taliban or Al Queda, but I tried to figure out what it would take to get me to figure it was a good idea to crash an airplane (with me at the wheel) into a skyscraper. That's not like a chicken-shit IRA car bomb, that's a whole other level of insanity.

And since it's not just one person, since millions of people in some parts of the world seemed to think this was a reasonable response, I had to ask: Is this like all the Germans who thought Hitler was a reasonable leader? Is this some sort of mass hysteria like the Crusades? Or is a whole segment of humanity being pushed tot he point where they fight like they have nothing to lose because they don't?

When we let nationalist and socialist thugs nationalize the oil supplies in the Middle East, we set up a situation where you have countries with one big income source that goes to a handful of tyrants, and everyone else can suck eggs. When you displace 700,000 Palestinians to establish a Jewish state that treats the Palestinians only marginally better than Germany treated the Jews, you set up a focal point of hate. When you rightly call the Embassy bombings and Pan Am 103 terrorist attacks but call it a security measure when Israeli helicopter gunships strafe civilian refugee camps and firebomb Beruit, that's just throwing fat on the fire.

We didn't help ourselves with our short-sighted Cold War policies. Fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan made a lot of sense, but abandonning the scene did not. Anytime it's easier to get a machine gun or grenade launcher than a square meal, you're going to have trouble. But we'd rather have DeBeers be able to go into Afghanistan, work out a sweetheart deal with the Taliban whereby Afghans can work for slave wages mining for gemstones that DeBeers buys for near nothing and stockpiles to keep the price artificially high. Why not? The same thing helped prop up Apartheid. Remember when Nelson Mandela was a 'terrorist?'

[QUOTE=Chixulub]Visiting Ground Zero this past April was a creepy experience, to compare the divot left behind with the picture of the NYC skyline as it was my whole life until three years ago. When I criticize U.S. foreign policy of the past sixty years by both parties as the ultimate cause of the attack, I'm not diminishing the loss. My first thought when they went down was I know several jazz musicians who live in NYC, who work menial jobs to subsidize their art. I was hoping none of them were working some meaningless temp gig in an office there that day.

For that matter, when it happened, I was 'okay, we know Afghanistan is harboring these cunts, Sudan and probably Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc. Let's bomb them back into the stone age.' But that was a not-particularly-thoughtful knee-jerk reaction, and what is the point of bombing people back into the stone age when they aren't far from it to begin with?

Kind of like when an earthquake makes you question the wisdom of building thousands of condo units right on the fault line, the thing made me really start to think about things in a bigger picture. Not to defend the Taliban or Al Queda, but I tried to figure out what it would take to get me to figure it was a good idea to crash an airplane (with me at the wheel) into a skyscraper. That's not like a chicken-shit IRA car bomb, that's a whole other level of insanity.

And since it's not just one person, since millions of people in some parts of the world seemed to think this was a reasonable response, I had to ask: Is this like all the Germans who thought Hitler was a reasonable leader? Is this some sort of mass hysteria like the Crusades? Or is a whole segment of humanity being pushed tot he point where they fight like they have nothing to lose because they don't?

When we let nationalist and socialist thugs nationalize the oil supplies in the Middle East, we set up a situation where you have countries with one big income source that goes to a handful of tyrants, and everyone else can suck eggs. When you displace 700,000 Palestinians to establish a Jewish state that treats the Palestinians only marginally better than Germany treated the Jews, you set up a focal point of hate. When you rightly call the Embassy bombings and Pan Am 103 terrorist attacks but call it a security measure when Israeli helicopter gunships strafe civilian refugee camps and firebomb Beruit, that's just throwing fat on the fire.

We didn't help ourselves with our short-sighted Cold War policies. Fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan made a lot of sense, but abandonning the scene did not. Anytime it's easier to get a machine gun or grenade launcher than a square meal, you're going to have trouble. But we'd rather have DeBeers be able to go into Afghanistan, work out a sweetheart deal with the Taliban whereby Afghans can work for slave wages mining for gemstones that DeBeers buys for near nothing and stockpiles to keep the price artificially high. Why not? The same thing helped prop up Apartheid. Remember when Nelson Mandela was a 'terrorist?'[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but I seem to have missed. Mandela and the current crop of Muslim Terrorist have nothing in common. Mandela had a clear goal and cause. Free South Africa.

Al-Qaeda wants to destroy Western Civilization. One is actionable, the other is not.

Calling the Cold War goals short sited is pretty bold, you should defend it. No one thought the Cold War was going to just end, no one thought the Soviet Union would collapse. Applying old, Cold War paradigms of combat to the current situation is ridiculous, but you didn't seem to make that point. During the Cold War the world was essentially divided two ways, either power attempted to deal with things according. Now, a lot of shit, stupid, stupid shit went on, but all of it was under the assumption that the Cold War would be around for a very long time to come.

The IRA targeted politicians, police and the military with their "chicken shit" car bombs while these silly fucks target civilians and most recently a school full of children. Chechnya should not be discounted from the mix especially since it's a problem for the other great Cold War power.

Killing civilians wantonly does little to further your cause or to advance an agenda. It's simply foolish as a mechanism. The best it can hope to do is precipitate entropy. Which seems to me, to be the only goal, any of these impoverished fools have in their ability to accomplish.

Mass hysteria may be at work. These archaic cultures are realizing their place in the 21st century was already made obsolete in the 20th and their silly sky-gods have little to say to the western World which dominates the planet.

I'd say the same of Western sky-gods by the way.

But, this isn't going to end, there isn't any solution. You just get used to it and hope somewhere down the line biotech and nanotech will live up to their promise and evolve the human brain and animal at a more significant rate.

Until then it's business as usual for the talking fecal monkeys of planet Earth.

I never thought about it that way, but damn, that's true.

One of the simultaneously best and worst parts of college is the almost total cutoff from outside events. That whole Russia school thing? What's up with that? Not to sound callous, but I hadn't really heard anything about it until I went to Mass this morning and the priest brought it up during prayers. The other side of the coin is that I'm not being constantly bombarded with NEVER4GET shit, and everyone at school was able to go about their business as they pleased or did not please, thinking about it in their own way and not having their heads jammed full of short news clips of burning buildings.

[QUOTE=jane s.]I never thought about it that way, but damn, that's true.

One of the simultaneously best and worst parts of college is the almost total cutoff from outside events. That whole Russia school thing? What's up with that? Not to sound callous, but I hadn't really heard anything about it until I went to Mass this morning and the priest brought it up during prayers. The other side of the coin is that I'm not being constantly bombarded with NEVER4GET shit, and everyone at school was able to go about their business as they pleased or did not please, thinking about it in their own way and not having their heads jammed full of short news clips of burning buildings.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it was bad yeaterday. Media on full self-refferential entropy loop overload.

The chechen terrorists are trying to get Russia out of their country, so at least they have a definable goal. But their methods win them no favors or support from the sane. Again, Muslims by and large.

Russia's position, to the very small extent that I understand it, is that to lose Chechnya as a province would destabilize the entire country and cause Russia itself (such as it is) to fall completely apart.

In a nutshell, what the hell happened in Russia anyway? A school got bombed? How long ago was it? How many people were hurt?

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but I seem to have missed. Mandela and the current crop of Muslim Terrorist have nothing in common. Mandela had a clear goal and cause. Free South Africa.

Al-Qaeda wants to destroy Western Civilization. One is actionable, the other is not.[/QUOTE]

The liberation of the Palestinian people is as legitimate a cause as the liberation of South African blacks. And the ANC did engage in terrorism to advance its agenda. And American foreign policy (during the Cold War) helped prop up the Apartheid regime.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Calling the Cold War goals short sited is pretty bold, you should defend it. No one thought the Cold War was going to just end, no one thought the Soviet Union would collapse.[/QUOTE]

We armed the Israelis in part because the Soviets armed the PLO and vice versa. Ditto for the Soviet support of the IRA, Castro, the Sandinistas, etc., and our support of whatever the opposite was. Not to mention Korea, Viet Nam, and the arming of what became the Taliban and Al Queda's nucleus in Afghanistan. No one ever seemed to ask, 'what happens when these guys don't have Russians to shoot at?' This was the root cause of our alternately arming Iran and Iraq, both bad ideas rooted in the ridiculous theory that the enemy of your enemy is an ally.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]

The IRA targeted politicians, police and the military with their "chicken shit" car bombs while these silly fucks target civilians and most recently a school full of children. Chechnya should not be discounted from the mix especially since it's a problem for the other great Cold War power.

Killing civilians wantonly does little to further your cause or to advance an agenda. It's simply foolish as a mechanism. The best it can hope to do is precipitate entropy. Which seems to me, to be the only goal, any of these impoverished fools have in their ability to accomplish.[/QUOTE]

The IRA blew up shopping centers and school busses as well as launching mortars into the PM's window (a legit target if ever there was). Terrorism is an effective tool when the desired result is to increase the opporessiveness of the opposition. It worked for the IRA, it worked for the ANC, it will ultimately work for the PLO and the Chechnyans. It's up to us whether it works for Al Queda. If you clamp down hard enough trying to stop the terrorism, you become scarier to the civilian population than the resistance, and they gain support. That's the driving idea of terrorism. It's also the weapon of choice for people who are legitimately pissed but outgunned by ridiculous margins. If you've got a pistol and a stick of dynamite and your enemy has tanks, jet fighters and helicopter gunships, you're going to fight dirty unless you're going to try a Ghandi.

Ghandi's tactics, incidentally, only work in limited circumstances. European Jews would not have stopped the Holocaust with those tactics, nor would Ghandi have had much luck with Stalin.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Mass hysteria may be at work. These archaic cultures are realizing their place in the 21st century was already made obsolete in the 20th and their silly sky-gods have little to say to the western World which dominates the planet.
[/QUOTE]

An 11th Century education does seem inadequate to me, because I'm an American. I understand where you're coming from. But there are people as uneducated and narrow minded in Tibet, Zaire, West Virginia and The Bronx who aren't going to blow anyone up. The mass hysteria of the Crusades was religiously based and unprovoked (Muslims from Jerusalem were not assaulting Europe, or even talking to Europeans, and were doing a bit of a tourist trade with a few Christian pilgrims, when a demented Pope started saying that anyone who died taking the Holy Land would have all their sins forgiven).

The current conflict would appear to be the same in reverse with these exceptions: Our foreign policy regarding Zionism is a provocation of the Muslim world; we not only do a huge trade with that area of the world in oil and gemstones, we've based troops on what they consider holy soil to be sure the people we consider 'acceptable' are in charge of the flow of oil; we've invaded a country (that was ruled by a tyrant, but so is Cuba), with the express purpose of imposing our STYLE of government, witht he express desire that it should spread throught he region.

I don't think any other place on earth has a better way of doing things on the whole, but I don't believe in forcing McStarbuckification and Wal-Marticolaism down the throats of people. The USSR fell, as much from the inability of a command and control government to come up with decent blue jeans and adequate food as from our stockpiling Weapons of Mass Destruction.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]But, this isn't going to end, there isn't any solution. You just get used to it and hope somewhere down the line biotech and nanotech will live up to their promise and evolve the human brain and animal at a more significant rate.[/QUOTE]

Biotech is great if you have shares in Monsanto, but Round-Up ready corn is only good until weeds evolve to tolerate Round-Up. I'm not afraid of so-called Franken-Foods, I'm afraid of a system so dependent on chemicals that famine could result from the destruction of a chemical factory. When I got out of high school, an anti-freeze factory blew up, and it turned out there were only two in the U.S. making all the brands. The other had to pick up the slack, and the price of the shit went throught he roof. Not a major crisis, but what happens if one of two factories that produces some key biotech products has a disaster, and for a couple of years the global food supply is shrunk by 1/3 or more? It may be a few years off, but the trend is there.

I'm not sure I have much faith in nanotech. I don't see it as the potential apocalypse Ted Kaczynski did, but I don't see it making us smarter. Maybe more technologically dependent (with consequences similar to the potential biotech backlash)

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Until then it's business as usual for the talking fecal monkeys of planet Earth.[/QUOTE]

When I was in NYC in April, I saw an article in the Times about the proposed replacement for the towers. They claimed it would be impervious to attack. Is that a 'kick me' sign on it or what? That's worse than the 'unsinkable' Titanic (which at least hadn't established a track record of sinking). Individual people are sometimes educable, but groups don't catch on so fast.

As I say, I'm an American and if I really thought there was a better set up, I'd be an ex-pat wherever that was, but to a great extent America is the guy with one lung removed, oxygen tank in his nostrils, smoking a Camel through their trach, a bottle of whiskey and a vial of hydrocodone on the coffee table next to their latest letter from the liver transplant waiting list people.

And that's the more benign picture. When we're all in a lather (as we were right after 9/11), we can be the Amish community raising a barn in a day and simultaneously be a teenager with a bottle of pills, a bottle of booze, a fast car and a loaded gun who just got dumped by his girlfriend and smacked by his father.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]
But the planes as missles was a hell of a lateral idea.
[/QUOTE]

I believe there was at least one prior use in the Middle East attempted, a Lebanese plane hijacked and aimed at Israel if memory serves. I believe it was shot down over the desert.

It's really just an extension of the Japanese kamikaze technique (they favored young, young pilots for that), dying for an Emperor who ironically was supposed to be a deity and was constantly dodging assassination attempts from the military guys who really drove Japan to war.

Back in 1975, Samuel Byck tried to hijack a plane on the ground to crash it into the White House (he wanted to get Tricky Dick in a bad way). It wasn't the most well executed terrorist attack in history, possibly the most inept.

[QUOTE=jane s.]In a nutshell, what the hell happened in Russia anyway? A school got bombed? How long ago was it? How many people were hurt?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/international/europe/12russia.html?th[/url]

Can't....access....

it says 'patriots day' on my calendar.