American flags aren't cool anymore :(
But it's only from a Euro POV. We need a good flipside and I'm just not up to a long post lately. Can't be one of the political guys; it would be political and from too specific a POV. Dan would be good but, being Canadian, he doesn't count.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Actually I'd love to hear Dan's take on it, as a Canadian. That could be very interesting.
There is hope, but not for us.
I'm used to this.
The pledge was written by a Socialist, with an obvious slant to promote loyalty to the Federal government.
Patriotic anti-Socialist Americans love it.
Pinko commies moan to the ACLU about it.
Hmmm...
Well, it was written in 1892. And, yeah, by a socialist, but one who was also a minister, who no doubt had to temper any radicalism he had to make it in that profession in his community. And it was in commemoration of Columbus Day, a decidedly not socialist holiday.
Too, I seriously doubt any "pinko commies" do any whining to the ACLU, about anything. Nice try, though. There's a marked difference between liberals and radical leftists.
Too, I seriously doubt any "pinko commies" do any whining to the ACLU, about anything. Nice try, though. There's a marked difference between liberals and radical leftists.
I hope my sarcasm is not lost on you, and merely your sarcasm is lost on me.
That said, it is interesting that the "under God" which does cause plenty of bitching and moaning by many parties, wasn't added by the minister until several decades later.
Yeah, totally missed your sarcasm. Oops.
And yeah, the original was much shorter. I think under god may have been added in the fifties, maybe? Definitely wasn't in the original, though. Neither was the name of the country.
ohio is made of so many different parts.
as of this moment the confederate flag (in my area of ohio) is pretty much like hanging a sign in the window that says "we smoke/sell meth".
a warning - kinda like those special license plates people get after so many DUI's.
Eisenhower added under Allah. And Bellamy wasn't just a socialist, he was a national socialist type (which many may be more familiar with in its abbreviated form). Oh, and he was also a flag salesman.
How very privileged of him to use gov't worship to help sell something...asshole.
"They sold you hippies grunge, hip hop, now liberty activism."
a socialist, a preacher AND a flag salesman???
Where did he find the time!
I see what you mean, but it's very hard offer comparisons like "more nationalistic" the way you do. Europe and America have completely different points of reference.
First, we have a sense of identity that relates to a very long history, both of cultural affirmation (starting with the language) and of perpetual contact with the neighbouring countries. In this sense, I am constantly aware of being a Frenchman in Germany, and I easily accept not fully belonging here, no matter how long I stay here. I was raised in another language, with different cultural differences, it's not like experiencing Germany the way Barbara has since she was born. My boss is very francophile, but I'm sure when the World Cup begins, if he likes football, he'll root for Germany and I for France, my other colleagues for the Czech Republic or Portugal or Italy. This little game is a reminiscence of the past wars.
It has nothing to do with the American context where the original inhabitants have been wiped out, and the culture is more homogenous (one language for example). The most prominent cultural rift in America is between a population of immigrants and a population of descendants of people who didn't choose to come and have not been treated as human beings until recently.
The immigrant population in Europe (from outside Europe) probably has a closer experience with that of latinos in America, because we know why they came in the first place, now it's just a question of putting up with their annoying differences so to speak.
Finally, don't forget that America is extremely well protected by two huge oceans, which is helpful when you need to step back and think clearly about the problems of the world, but can also be damaging because it can make people uninterested of what goes on far away. It's a Here/Out There dichotomy. Comparatively someone living in Holland can't ignore being surrounded by big countries, and one hour away by plane from the borders of Europe you can find quite a few autoritarian regimes and violent countries. Consequence : religious relations are not just a matter of individual rights within our societies, but also crucial diplomatic matters.
This is one of the most insightful things I've ever read about Americans vs. Europeans.
There is hope, but not for us.