abortion and babies and "steakshake"

[QUOTE=mirka]really?

[img]http://www.filmfodder.com/movies/reviews/alien/images/alien.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
This should be a pro choice ad: "This could happen to YOU"

[QUOTE=fattyowls]YOU GET FUNNIER BY EACH SUCCESSIVE POST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yet i still have more to say,

men trying to control woman is that what you think i wish ? where have i insinuated that ?

birth is the formation of something BOTH men and woman perform. the fact that the child is conceived inside the woman is incidental. if it was conceived inside the man i would still oppose abortion. youve obviously misunderstood most of what ive written .

I DONT WANT TO CONTROL WOMAN, if you think that just because im a guy and im against abortion, what in the world would you have answered to my argument if i was a woman.(and i can guarantee you i know woman who agree, and conversely disagree. so what are youy going to say to woman who disagree with abortion ?
OH, WOMAN ARE ONLY TRYING TO CONTROL WOMAN. really is that a argument youd like to propose.

I ONLY WANT PEOPLE TO SHOW REPONSIBILTY FOR THE ACTIONS (that includes MEN as well). when did this start to be a guy vs girl thing?
OH, youve mistaken me for some kind of lunatic mysogynist without understanding a damn word ive written.
I MUST BE A WOMAN HATER SINCE IM A GUY AND I DISAGREE WITH YOU, YOU BEING A GIRL.
stop diluding yourself, your starting to look a little silly.

outlaw men jerking off and wasting valuable sperm ? what the hell does that have to do with abortion ?
its good to see you have no real assertions to provide this conversation and have diverged into some bizarre tangent.

how is jerking off akin to abortion ? next youll come up with the ludicrous idea that abstinance is similar to abortion because the person(s) involved in abstaining are denying a prospective life its given right to live. SERIOUSLY??????

as for your eggs being worthy of no more glory than a chickens, yes i agree (and once again youve missed my point). its not just your eggs but your FERTILISED EGGS[B](the ones destined to form a child)[/B]. this is the difference. good luck with the devilled eggs by the way.

seriously youve asserted im insane, hinted that im strictly arguing this angle because im a WOMAN CONTROLLING MAN (quality debating) and generally overlooked all my points on the matter.

i anticipate your next insightful piece of wisdom[/QUOTE]

Shove a basketball up your ass for ten months and get back to me. Oh, and go easy on the caps when you do.

[QUOTE=Hingdai]sure, we're genetically predisposed to getting a partner, having kids, having a family, having super bowl bbq's, whatever. That is our animal nature. As humans we all have different reasons for wanting/not wanting those things. Some women have babies literally for the feeling of being responsible for a life, for having something to hold and play with and control, like a pet, i've read psych articles on such things. In these cases you are right. But it's just as plausible to have altruistic intents, an authentic bond between parents and children, is probably the closest relationship anyone can have. How is that not something to strive for?

Unfortunately for my argument, most people aren't capable of having a family/kids for non-selfish reasons. But what are you saying? that we should perform genital mutilation on people who don't score high enough on the SAT's and have questionable psych profiles?

As for abortion. Would you have a funeral for a failed fertalized egg? Until the third trimester the thing doesn't even have a conjoined nervous system. It's a couple of genes away from being a newt. I understand what you're saying about taking responsiblity, but I really just don't believe that the vast majority of people having sex think of abortion as birth control. I've never had an abortion, but I imagine that evacuating a dead fetus from my body would be a pretty good reason to take precautions against pregnancy. I know you're going to go ABSTINANCE!!!!!!!, and then i'll think about not having sex until I want kids, and I'll have a nice chuckle to myself.

in sum. It's unreasonable to ask all people to not have sex until they want babies. Most reasonable people take precautions to curb pregnancy. When those precautions fail, I thank God they are not bringing mo' babies into an already overpopulated world, bite the bullet, and have an abortion. Most people that have abortions on regular bases are people in extremely under-educated, poverty stricken places, and that is a whole other conversation.

edit: Normally I'd romantically spout more on the virtues of love, but my girlfriend just pseudo-brok up with me so i'ma go get drunk instead.[/QUOTE]

fistly, thankyou for actually posing some points that add something.

in answer to a few of your questions

i do understand the atruistic bond between a parent and child. its just that this forms after the decision to have the child in the first place. so im still a little hazy on how the original desicion to have them is.

dont think im an abstinance nut. im only pissed off with peolpes predilections of grabbing a pill everytime something goes wrong to solve there ills. this seems to me to be a method that will weaken the integrity of society. i dont expect people to strictly adhere to a "no sex" policy, for most realtionships sex is an integral part but it is those relationships that rely on it exclusively as a mean of foundation and abuse the resultant births that occur by terminating them. i certainly dont expect these people to be castrated or withheld from having children,

my argument is this
"people should link the anguish of terminating a child and the responsibility towards this and the actual sex part a little better than what people already do, and if that entails abstinance, good. if that also means fucking like rabbits and accepting the children that form due to that act, then this is also good.

would i have a funeral for a fertilised egg ? it would surely be a cheaper coffin...........i have no doubt that a woman of sufficient humanity would grieve over an abortion for whatever reason.the doubt as to what kind of child/human it would have been would likely increase this grieve. likewise miscarriages.

in closing im not against sex before marriage, sex before planned pregnancy (but ideally it would be planned) all im saying is that if you consumate sex accept the resultant births.

[QUOTE=mirka]Shove a basketball up your ass for ten months and get back to me. Oh, and go easy on the caps when you do.[/QUOTE]

again youve posed a good point

UP MY ASS ? SOUNDS PRETTY GROOVY
REGULATION SIZED BASEKTBALL ?

oh brother, this thread is destined for greatness

[QUOTE=Hingdai]
Most people that have abortions on regular bases are people in extremely under-educated, poverty stricken places, and that is a whole other conversation.
[/QUOTE]

this is not always the case, but I agree that the majority of people that have regular abortions are those that you speak of.

I can see that sex education is extremely difficult in implimenting for the "undereducated" for obvious reasons and poverty striken areas often produce familys of sizeable proprotions but these barriers are not insummountable although extremely unlikely to be overcome.

my apprehensions are principly for those that are educated enough and in a position to have the correct judgement towards birth, but forgo that judgement in the name of rooting .

and yes this is a quite extended topic in itself.