abortion and babies and "steakshake"

A) Yes

couldn't tell ya. I have made efforts to avoid reproduction. While friends are sweating how they are gonna pay for little Jenny's braces I am going to Disney World. There must be someone that can explain it.

C) Slide one down the bar, I'll try it. Got fries with that?

[QUOTE=McMuddle]couldn't tell ya. I have made efforts to avoid reproduction. While friends are sweating how they are gonna pay for little Jenny's braces I am going to Disney World. There must be someone that can explain it.
[/QUOTE]

yeah marriage and babies just dont make any sense to me.

people just seem to fuck, reproduce and marry, not in that order (but usually) with little regard for the meaning of any of it.

marriage is famously spouted as a "COMPROMISE". well why would anybody want to enter into something that binds them for the rest of their life and compromises themselves. and there is usually a power imbalance (predominately advantageous for the man - myself being one) therefore i would be responsible for compromising the woman to a greater detriment and if your really joined in union as token of "love" why would you profess this by compromising the person you are supposedly in love with. mariage just seems like a massive cop out and an instituion people keep alive to allay all their lost dreams and aspirations, having had them dissolve into thin air.

i mean........... jesus kicked ass and he was never married less had children, so what gives.

[QUOTE=fattyowls] mariage just seems like a massive cop out and an instituion people keep alive to allay all their lost dreams and aspirations, having had them dissolve into thin air.[/QUOTE]
I don't get it.

[QUOTE=Vendetta]I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

from my experience of observing marriages it occured to me that the union was developed not out "love", for love does not bind or shackle one and derive limitations to impede growth, but by either a case of -
loneliness, loss of dominant identity (mainly in males), dependance (commonly stereotyped towards woman but equally evident in men), loss of hope for the future, religious obligations, social obligations (peer pressure) [U]and the reallisation that the dreams once imagined are now unattainable (this being the most common of reasons)[/U].

i must add that people of diminished intelligence (the lowest common denominators) are ideally suited to marriage as well as people of wayward dispositions as it corrals them into a suitable forum to receive the anaesthitising effect of added social responsibility.many abject individuals i work with have married and are now happily dosile restrictive and respectable members of "their" community, abiding by their mundane routine of work, family life and home loans. the best outcome for all concerned (until obviously they have children and the cycle of ignorance starts again).

the previous paragraph in no way implies that all married people are stupid. i only reserve this assertion for those that are married and truly believe in the institution as their saving grace. its just plan "b".

what the hell is a[I] wayward disposition[/I]?

I fucking love kids. They say and do the the cutest things. It's like seeing the world for the first time all over again hanging out with them.

Abortion pill, sure, why not. Less messy than abortion.

I don't think your problem is with marriage, then, it's with desperate types, people who just want to say, 'Hey, I may not be successful or happy but at least I'm married'
You've observed some shitty marriages. The ones I've observed have started out based on love and the desire to start a family, maybe it didn't turn out that way but they had the best of intentions.

I am all for abortion as a form of birth control. Of course it's not me that's getting a metal coat hanger up the woo woo, so how much my vote counts, I don't know. Oh wait I am a white male, my vote counts.

The thing that should be over the counter is Plan B. Why that's not available at every Paki-Mart like condoms are is beyond me.
I believe India is very liberal in the birth control department.

[QUOTE=mirka]what the hell is a[I] wayward disposition[/I]?

I fucking love kids. They say and do the the cutest things. It's like seeing the world for the first time all over again hanging out with them.

Abortion pill, sure, why not. Less messy than abortion.[/QUOTE]

yeah i love kids too, i just dont understand the compulsion to have them. i mean what do people think when they go "right, children - pros cons ". it seems impossible to debate other than "it would be nice to have a little replica that looks talks and acts like us both, honey"

wayward disposition - think of the social hierachy of your school and these are the people i refer to. and yes some might include them in the "lcd" category but going on a sliding scale they wouldnt be classed as absolute knuckle draggers. but they are still as morally corrupt, so thats the distinction.

im sometimes vague, sorry.

[QUOTE=rkdaley]I am all for abortion as a form of birth control.[/QUOTE]

Of course you are, how many have you had so far?

I'm for abortion up to the end of the forth trimester.

[QUOTE=Vendetta]I don't think your problem is with marriage, then, it's with desperate types, people who just want to say, 'Hey, I may not be successful or happy but at least I'm married'
You've observed some shitty marriages. The ones I've observed have started out based on love and the desire to start a family, maybe it didn't turn out that way but they had the best of intentions.[/QUOTE]

i have observed some very very shitty marriages, but ive also observed some that have gone as good as anyone should expect them to function. im not saying marraige is wrong or poor judgement, ive just never heard a compelling argument for why people have kids and get married, until im convinced im just not interested in committing. it just seems to happen because every body else does it.

why did they want to start a family ?

maybe it didnt turn out the way they intended because they were both unsuitable to marriage. ie because they were of reasonable intelligence and felt inhibited by the marriage they couldn't possibly sustain it any longer. as opposed to a couple with limited intelligence who would thrive on marriage as their depleted imagination would only afford them enough creativity to flourish in the marital environment without the need of following any other hopes and dreams.

[QUOTE=fattyowls]yeah i love kids too, i just dont understand the compulsion to have them. i mean what do people think when they go "right, children - pros cons ". it seems impossible to debate other than "it would be nice to have a little replica that looks talks and acts like us both, honey"

wayward disposition - think of the social hierachy of your school and these are the people i refer to. and yes some might include them in the "lcd" category but going on a sliding scale they wouldnt be classed as absolute knuckle draggers. but they are still as morally corrupt, so thats the distinction.

im sometimes vague, sorry. :)[/QUOTE]

I understand the compulsion to have them, I just haven't indulged. It's not so vain and selfish, really. It's not so much a [I]replica [/I]as a newness, a combination of the two people creating a life. It's kind of like a miracle, but a very ordinary and common one. Watching a consciousness develop is amazing. I also think that there is an element of being connected to all of humanity by having a child.

I'm not going to have kids, but I've thought about having a kid just to experience pregnancy and childbirth. Like, whoa, I can grow a human being in my body!

I thought [I]wayward disposition [/I]sounded kind of sexy so I was wondering how that was a bad thing and why in hell it had anything to do with marriage.

I'm not a big believer in marriage, myself. I don't think it's romantic at all to have a covenant to only have sex with one person for the rest of your life. That just seems really unrealistic and stupid.

[QUOTE=mirka]I understand the compulsion to have them, I just haven't indulged. It's not so vain and selfish, really. It's not so much a [I]replica [/I]as a newness, a combination of the two people creating a life. It's kind of like a miracle, but a very ordinary and common one. Watching a consciousness develop is amazing. I also think that there is an element of being connected to all of humanity by having a child.

I'm not going to have kids, but I've thought about having a kid just to experience pregnancy and childbirth. Like, whoa, I can grow a human being in my body!

I thought [I]wayward disposition [/I]sounded kind of sexy so I was wondering how that was a bad thing and why in hell it had anything to do with marriage.

I'm not a big believer in marriage, myself. I don't think it's romantic at all to have a covenant to only have sex with one person for the rest of your life. That just seems really unrealistic and stupid.

[/QUOTE]
being connected to all of humanity,
do you mean feeling connected to the cycle of life ?

i guess in regards to birth a womans perspective would be very different to mine. it sounds like (and this might appear silly) growing vegetables or a tree, to see something grow and mature is a rewarding experience.

im still convinced that the child is like the trophy of the relationship.an advertisement. its like saying "our love is the greatest" this is the proof, or a case of the parents trying to live vicariously through their children(the mad sports dad etc).. i just hope if i ever have a child it wont be a case of blithely following the lead of the masses.

just like a trophy wife, there is the trophy child.

by the way what do you think about "STEAK SHAKE"

[QUOTE=rkdaley] Oh wait I am a white male, my vote counts.

[/QUOTE]

your damn right the white male vote counts.
cant think of a situation where it wouldn't.
its too grizzly to imagine.

[QUOTE=fattyowls]being connected to all of humanity,
do you mean feeling connected to the cycle of life ?

i guess in regards to birth a womans perspective would be very different to mine. it sounds like (and this might appear silly) growing vegetables or a tree, to see something grow and mature is a rewarding experience.

im still convinced that the child is like the trophy of the relationship.an advertisement. its like saying "our love is the greatest" this is the proof, or a case of the parents trying to live vicariously through their children(the mad sports dad etc).. i just hope if i ever have a child it wont be a case of blithely following the lead of the masses.

just like a trophy wife, there is the trophy child.

by the way what do you think about "STEAK SHAKE"[/QUOTE]

Sure, the cycle of life works for me. Though all of humanity does as well. Every single person in the world started off as this helpless creature kind of thing.

I think children are a joy and people have them because they want a family. I don't get what all this weird motivation comes from, the advertising, the trophy aspect. We're primates, there's an urge to form community and procreate.

I do know what you're getting at to a certain extent, people do partner up with others as a status trophy thing.

I think steak shake sounds utterly VILE! Sorry.

[QUOTE=mirka]

We're primates, there's an urge to form community and procreate.

[/QUOTE]

i think this is the urge im yet to convinced about. maybe i should just buy a puppy or a potted plant.

steak shake - vile !
and by vile i guess you dont mean deliciously refreshing, this is a dent in my bovine puree empire - back to drawing board !!!

[QUOTE=fattyowls]since my government is currently discussing legislation to allow the abortion pill i was wondering what the general consensus was in regards to whether people agree with the pill.
personally i think if it can curb the generally large proportion of ingrates popped out each year then fine, but if its main use is to help promiscuity get a foot up (id put money on this) then sod it off
so ........

[B]a) do you agree with the use of the abortion pill [/B]

and secondly it got me thinking on the topic of offspring and what the motivation is for reproducing. i can only come up with the answer that it is purely selfish and a vane attempt to propagate ones own image.i would really like to hear what people think would be or has been the motivation for bringing new life into this world.
[B]
b)what are peoples motivations for bringing new life into this world[/B]

[U]and finally the trick question (feel free to ignore this)[/U]
[B]
c) do you think steak pureed up into a liquid would be commercially viable.
i call it "STEAKSHAKE" (it would put red bull to shame) comments welcome[/B]

just imagine a full side of beef pureed down into 375ml of beefy goodness, mmmmm.[/QUOTE]
a)i think the abortion pill is a good idea. if a woman doesn't think that she is ready to have a child, she should have the right to abort it and the pill is much less invasive than the surgery.
b)people's motivations for bringing new life into the world is so that they can pass on their genes and in a way continue living after they die, since a percentage of their genes will be passed on in the next generation. also, humans are just like other organisms who just try and keep their species in existence.
c)there is a song i heard about a meatshake. its by a group called ugly duckling.

[QUOTE=ally]a)i think the abortion pill is a good idea. if a woman doesn't think that she is ready to have a child, she should have the right to abort it and the pill is much less invasive than the surgery.
b)people's motivations for bringing new life into the world is so that they can pass on their genes and in a way continue living after they die, since a percentage of their genes will be passed on in the next generation. also, humans are just like other organisms who just try and keep their species in existence.
c)there is a song i heard about a meatshake. its by a group called ugly duckling.[/QUOTE]

a) in response, why isnt abstinance suitable

this conclusion supports my assertion that procreating is a selfish desire to sustain ones identity and no other motivation is responsible for reproducing.

c) thats so fucking awesome!!!!!
im gonna download this song and blast my unit complex all night long with it on repeat(maybe after the 302nd time its played ill stop playing it, maybe). it better not sound like rap metal else its gettin the rubbish bin treatment.

abstinence is unrealistic i think. the vast majority of people are not going to wait until marriage. and its not like teenagers and young people are the only ones getting abortions. there are also older women who don't want any more kids and victims of rape. so abstinence can't solve everything.

woman do have the option of preventing birth. (as do males)

it usually involves denying the penis its spiritual home, and the woman using the time honoured phrase "no fucking way is this happening tonight"

simple, but effective.
i guarantee a 100% success rate.

but how about victims of rape. they don't have a say.

yeah rape is the only dodgy aspect of the abortion pill.

i still dont agree will the abortion pill but for possible births from rape its a little difficult, probably have to say this is the only possible reason for allowing it, and even then im not comfortable (and yes, ill never encounter this situation so im slighty limited in my objectivity, but i still dont care for acts of nature (birth) being manipulated by artificial remedies.)

this is the ultimate analogy of the throw away society and its definately verging on some kind of criminal activity (im not religious by the way but, i think jesus was way cool though)

why are people prepared to have sex (a natural inclination) but not accept the possibility of birth. people seem to be severely augmenting an act that is PRINCIPLY used to create more life and then reallising that "oh shit we might be having a child, i didnt think this would happen" and seeking measures to "clean up the little mess theyve created" . this is just perpetuating the cosmetic industry.
before we could hide blemishes and acne and then came plastic surgery, now we have the "pills" to erase much larger blemishes, blemishes in the form of offspring. this is just another aspect of how society has grown more and more selfish. why should people be allowed to escape responsibility of something they have created. adversity creates character or something like that.

what cant people plan for children anymore ? this seems like a good and noble ideal

FATTYOWLS LIST OF PARENTAL ADVICE FOR HAVING CHILDREN

if you in dire financial straits and another child would impact negatively - dont fuck
if you feel your ill equipped to be a parent and generally are an awful bastard - dont fuck
if you offend me by being constantly stupid - dont fuck
if your raped - i obviously have very limited ideas on this aspect.

and heres the big clue ......
if you dont want to have children - dont fuck (or at least understand the menstral cycle)

[QUOTE=ally]abstinence is unrealistic i think. the vast majority of people are not going to wait until marriage. and its not like teenagers and young people are the only ones getting abortions. there are also older women who don't want any more kids and victims of rape. so abstinence can't solve everything.[/QUOTE]

abstinence is 100 % effective i guarantee it and can solve all unwanted births, the exception being rape.

the only limitation to abstinance is whether or not people have the cranial ability to impliment it and attempt some form of responsibility in regards to childbirth.

i also think it is unreallistic to expect people to abstain from sex. im only implying that to avoid "unwanted" births (with the exception of rape) this is the only guaranteed measure. i dont expect everybody to abstain from sex in full but if people have sex and the woman gets pregnant, grow some balls and show responsibility for what youve created. dont flush it down the toilet like a turd.

this is just another progression of the drug addled society we live in. .

[QUOTE=fattyowls]
the only limitation to abstinance is whether or not people have the cranial ability to impliment it and attempt some form of responsibility in regards to childbirth.[/QUOTE]

Like abortion? I find that a [I]responsible [/I]solution to an unwanted pregnancy. There are a lot of considerations to bringing a child into this world. I would certain avail myself of abortion if all my other precautions failed and I got pregnant. And no, not fucking is not an cceptable option for me. I will enjoy my body as I please. I also wear cosmetics. Oh my god!

You are saying on one hand that if people [I]want [/I]children they're shallow and it's because they want a trophy or some cynical thing. And on the other hand you're saying people that don't want children, should not have sex at all. Are you insane?

[QUOTE=mirka]Like abortion? I find that a [I]responsible [/I]solution to an unwanted pregnancy. There are a lot of considerations to bringing a child into this world. I would certain avail myself of abortion if all my other precautions failed and I got pregnant. And no, not fucking is not an cceptable option for me. I will enjoy my body as I please. I also wear cosmetics. Oh my god![/QUOTE]

abstinence like abortion ? how can you say this ?

abortion is the erosion of personality. having performed sex and created a potential child, and having it aborted in whatever trimester, dont you think it takes away a part of the womans personality and humanity.you mentioned that being connected to humanity was a byproduct of having a child so dont you think that abortion erodes ones humanity ? just because the child didnt grow to the stage of making an audible noise doesnt it concern you that you could just erase its existance even though it registered as a living lifeform inside you ? i find this mystifying.

as for not fucking, i dont really care what people do with their bodies to be honest.as long as people accept that birth doesnt happen like a lottery and sex has a decent role in the process and they're MATURE enough to take responsibiltiy for the outcome. i just dont want a generation of weeping cry babys making each other potential parents who fix their "unwanted problems" simply by swallowing a pill. having absolutely no backbone is a phrase that comes to mind. this whole planet is medication crazy and in the majority of cases id bet a fair sum its unwarranted. just a hunch.

cosmetics eh ?whale makes good lipstick

Whenever I think about steakshake I always get it mixed up with the abortion thing and think of a shake made of the blended up aborted foetuses of pregnant catholic school girls.

[QUOTE=mirka]You are saying on one hand that if people [I]want [/I]children they're shallow and it's because they want a trophy or some cynical thing. And on the other hand you're saying people that don't want children, should not have sex at all. Are you insane?[/QUOTE]

yes i am insane but it has nothing to do with what you are referring to.

ok,
if someone wants to plan for a child and succeeds, i think, due to very little evidence presented to me on the contrary, that people have children purely out of selfish reasons.
but childbirth itself does not repulse me, i only wonder at the motivation for it.

on the other hand people that choose to abort their child are still selfish because they have assumed authority over another living being and chosen there needs over something else that has registered as a new piece of humanity. i argue that these people should not be able to receive the pill because there means of satisfying an unwelcomed addition to there relationship is inhumane. youve stated that i believe that "people that dont want children, should not have sex at all" how do you find this bizarre? do you think that those people who desire endless sex without the resultant births should be allowed to function in this way? i surely hope not.

im quite within my right to argue about the motivation for having children and the callow disregard for life that is abortion.you may have mistaken this as a contradiciton in terms, but i only wish to pursue an amicable solution as to why people are genuinely propelled towards familys.

childbirth is only perplexing to me, and certainly does not instill the disgust i feel towards the use of abortion (with the exclusion of rape victims)..

possibly it is not i, who is insane after all

I keep thinkin Steak-N-Shake, a southern favorite of mine. Takehomeasack! I loves them burgers and fries at Steak-N-Shake. And you can actually see the grill and watch your food being made. That's important.

Want that recipe for placenta shakes again?

Back on Topic: Why can any 'ol fool make babies but you have to get a license to drive a car? I get sick of my taxes paying for another generation of underachievers.

[QUOTE=mikandrewz]Whenever I think about steakshake I always get it mixed up with the abortion thing and think of a shake made of the blended up aborted foetuses of pregnant catholic school girls.[/QUOTE]

this thing could really make dollars

[QUOTE=fattyowls]

abortion is the erosion of personality. having performed sex and created a potential child, and having it aborted in whatever trimester, dont you think it takes away a part of the womans personality and humanity.[/QUOTE]

I don't think abortion is the erosion of a personality. I don't consider a fertilized egg a personality at all. And no, I don't think it takes away part of a woman's humanity or personality to have an abortion.

No.

No, it doesn't concern me at all. Like I wrote above, I don't consider a fertilized egg or a fetus quite a "lifeform".

I understand that sex has a role in the process, of course. I also think the MATURE, RESPONSIBLE thing to do is sometimes having an abortion instead of bringing a child into the world.

I guess we'll see how your hunch plays out. I'm glad I can pop a pill and not have a kid and still fuck like a bunny. I also like the fact that I can pop pills and not die of an infection. I don't think I'm lacking a backbone if I take advantage of the time I live in and don't suffer through a migraine to prove anything.

what mirka said, Ditto.

Edit: I also believe, though, that certain inividuals with a proven track record of not being able to make those decisions in a responsible fashion should be prevented from being able to reproduce. That oughta fan the flames a bit.

are you talking about RU486 or the morning after pill?
the morning after pill simply stops the egg from being furtalized and therefor isn't an abortion, its similair hormones to birth control, but more potent and stop the egg from fertalizing and implanting so a fetus is never actually developed. Breast feeding puts out similair hormones and has the same effect (why most breatfeeding women can't get pregrant). RU486 on the other hand actually does termintate an implanted egg, so there is a big difference between them and how they affect the body. So there is a difference between the abortion pill and the morning after pill.

[QUOTE=mr_hash]are you talking about RU486 or the morning after pill?
the morning after pill simply stops the egg from being furtalized and therefor isn't an abortion, its similair hormones to birth control, but more potent and stop the egg from fertalizing and implanting so a fetus is never actually developed. Breast feeding puts out similair hormones and has the same effect (why most breatfeeding women can't get pregrant). RU486 on the other hand actually does termintate an implanted egg, so there is a big difference between them and how they affect the body. So there is a difference between the abortion pill and the morning after pill.[/QUOTE]

ru486 is the pill im talkin bout

[QUOTE=mirka] I don't consider a fertilized egg or a fetus quite a "lifeform".
[/QUOTE]

i think if you believe that a fertilized egg or a foetus is not quite a lifeform, then we are destined to never agree on this subject.

it all has to do with peoples perceptions of when the child is classed alive, and for me that is definately from the time the egg is fertilized. i get the impression that since a baby inside the womb is called a "foetus" as opposed to "baby" people think this difference of terminology allows them to perform abortion. this should not be the case. maybe if children were classed as alive from conception then abortion wouldnt be an issue.

if the foetus wasnt continually growing inside the womb, breathing, feeding and doing pretty much what it would be doing after the birth then how can you class it as a "not quite a lifeform" just because it is concealed from the viewing eye ?

how does a foetus simply become a lifeform once the woman has given birth to it, even though it still relies apon breathing feeding etc, the same course of events that it maintained inside the womb ?
[B]
its an arbitrary event, the lifeform does change status, it only inhabits a new environment. [U]that is the only different.[/U] new environment only, not new form of life.[/B]

damn you people are cold and jaded
isn't there anyone here thats a romantic at heart ?

romance only gets you asshole deep in trouble.

[QUOTE=scerpica]romance only gets you asshole deep in trouble.[/QUOTE]
i've heard that ...somewhere ?

[QUOTE=scerpica]romance only gets you asshole deep in trouble.[/QUOTE]

and asshole romance only procures "bloodfarts"

(see im extremely romantic)

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker]i've heard that ...somewhere ?[/QUOTE]

yeah, an old and wise man wrote it on a postcard but never mailed it.

[QUOTE=scerpica]yeah, an old and wise man wrote it on a postcard but never mailed it.[/QUOTE]
errrrrrr

[QUOTE=fattyowls]i think if you believe that a fertilized egg or a foetus is not quite a lifeform, then we are destined to never agree on this subject.[/QUOTE]

Yet you have so much more to say.

For you.

I get the impression that you think should not be the case.

Perhaps. If you had [I]your [/I]way.

it's certainly a convenient argument for men trying to control women. How about outlawing men jerking off and wasting viable sperm? Women ovulate without making any sort of effort. But don't you think it's irresponsible for men to throw away their sperm? It's [I]life [/I]just waiting to become personality.

Because I relish eating deviled eggs. I'm not such a hypocrite as to think my eggs are so much more exalted than a chicken's in the scheme of things.

[QUOTE=mirka]Yet you have so much more to say.

For you.

I get the impression that you think should not be the case.

Perhaps. If you had [I]your [/I]way.

it's certainly a convenient argument for men trying to control women. How about outlawing men jerking off and wasting viable sperm? Women ovulate without making any sort of effort. But don't you think it's irresponsible for men to throw away their sperm? It's [I]life [/I]just waiting to become personality.

Because I relish eating deviled eggs. I'm not such a hypocrite as to think my eggs are so much more exalted than a chicken's in the scheme of things.[/QUOTE]
i want to have your baby !

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker]i want to have your baby ![/QUOTE]

really?

[img]http://www.filmfodder.com/movies/reviews/alien/images/alien.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=mirka]really?

[img]http://www.filmfodder.com/movies/reviews/alien/images/alien.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
awwww wook at the cute wittle thing

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker]awwww wook at the cute wittle thing[/QUOTE]

I always think of that scene in Alien whenever men get super emphatic about deciding if women should be foced to spend 10 months of their life carrying [I]sperm[/I].

there always that arguement about how men should be ableto get pregnant but you just know if a guy had to carry a baby around that long he'd end up losing it at the bar or behind the couch cushions or somewhere
only women can keep it together long enough to have kids

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker]there always that arguement about how men should be ableto get pregnant but you just know if a guy had to carry a baby around that long he'd end up losing it at the bar or behind the couch cushions or somewhere
only women can keep it together long enough to have kids[/QUOTE]

I don't know that argument, actually. That[I] hahah forget ithe fetus in the bar [/I]joke. .I was thinking more like the film Alien where a dude would be in a coma for a really long time and then get a craving for food and then die a really painful death giving birth.

sure, we're genetically predisposed to getting a partner, having kids, having a family, having super bowl bbq's, whatever. That is our animal nature. As humans we all have different reasons for wanting/not wanting those things. Some women have babies literally for the feeling of being responsible for a life, for having something to hold and play with and control, like a pet, i've read psych articles on such things. In these cases you are right. But it's just as plausible to have altruistic intents, an authentic bond between parents and children, is probably the closest relationship anyone can have. How is that not something to strive for?

Unfortunately for my argument, most people aren't capable of having a family/kids for non-selfish reasons. But what are you saying? that we should perform genital mutilation on people who don't score high enough on the SAT's and have questionable psych profiles?

As for abortion. Would you have a funeral for a failed fertalized egg? Until the third trimester the thing doesn't even have a conjoined nervous system. It's a couple of genes away from being a newt. I understand what you're saying about taking responsiblity, but I really just don't believe that the vast majority of people having sex think of abortion as birth control. I've never had an abortion, but I imagine that evacuating a dead fetus from my body would be a pretty good reason to take precautions against pregnancy. I know you're going to go ABSTINANCE!!!!!!!, and then i'll think about not having sex until I want kids, and I'll have a nice chuckle to myself.

in sum. It's unreasonable to ask all people to not have sex until they want babies. Most reasonable people take precautions to curb pregnancy. When those precautions fail, I thank God they are not bringing mo' babies into an already overpopulated world, bite the bullet, and have an abortion. Most people that have abortions on regular bases are people in extremely under-educated, poverty stricken places, and that is a whole other conversation.

edit: Normally I'd romantically spout more on the virtues of love, but my girlfriend just pseudo-brok up with me so i'ma go get drunk instead.

[QUOTE=mirka]Yet you have so much more to say.

For you.

I get the impression that you think should not be the case.

Perhaps. If you had [I]your [/I]way.

[B][U][I][B]it's certainly a convenient argument for men trying to control women.[/B] How about outlawing men jerking off and wasting viable sperm? Women ovulate without making any sort of effort. But don't you think it's irresponsible for men to throw away their sperm? It's [I]life [/I]just waiting to become personality.

Because I relish eating deviled eggs. I'm not such a hypocrite as to think my eggs are so much more exalted than a chicken's in the scheme of things.[/I][/U][/B][/QUOTE]

YOU GET FUNNIER BY EACH SUCCESSIVE POST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yet i still have more to say,

men trying to control woman is that what you think i wish ? where have i insinuated that ?

birth is the formation of something BOTH men and woman perform. the fact that the child is conceived inside the woman is incidental. if it was conceived inside the man i would still oppose abortion. youve obviously misunderstood most of what ive written .

I DONT WANT TO CONTROL WOMAN, if you think that just because im a guy and im against abortion, what in the world would you have answered to my argument if i was a woman.(and i can guarantee you i know woman who agree, and conversely disagree. so what are youy going to say to woman who disagree with abortion ?
OH, WOMAN ARE ONLY TRYING TO CONTROL WOMAN. really is that a argument youd like to propose.

I ONLY WANT PEOPLE TO SHOW REPONSIBILTY FOR THE ACTIONS (that includes MEN as well). when did this start to be a guy vs girl thing?
OH, youve mistaken me for some kind of lunatic mysogynist without understanding a damn word ive written.
I MUST BE A WOMAN HATER SINCE IM A GUY AND I DISAGREE WITH YOU, YOU BEING A GIRL.
stop diluding yourself, your starting to look a little silly.

outlaw men jerking off and wasting valuable sperm ? what the hell does that have to do with abortion ?
its good to see you have no real assertions to provide this conversation and have diverged into some bizarre tangent.

how is jerking off akin to abortion ? next youll come up with the ludicrous idea that abstinance is similar to abortion because the person(s) involved in abstaining are denying a prospective life its given right to live. SERIOUSLY??????

as for your eggs being worthy of no more glory than a chickens, yes i agree (and once again youve missed my point). its not just your eggs but your FERTILISED EGGS[B](the ones destined to form a child)[/B]. this is the difference. good luck with the devilled eggs by the way.

seriously youve asserted im insane, hinted that im strictly arguing this angle because im a WOMAN CONTROLLING MAN (quality debating) and generally overlooked all my points on the matter.

i anticipate your next insightful piece of wisdom