Funny story… Or: “If this is your first night at the forum, you HAVE to post”

he had a pretty good run on Daredevil to when it re-launched

as to your point though, yeah, that's why I got a really hard time just declaring something or someone sucks anymore is because you never know who might pop in and be reading it anymore. If I don't like something for a reason I feel compelled to give a big long explanation why just in case they [i]do[/i] see it! Even for Anne Rice!

I don't like comic book artists because I was always crap at drawing and I loved drawing so much. If I could have any one talent in the world it would be drawing, but no matter how hard I tried nothing was ever as I wanted it to be. The same goes for writing too. I think I'm doomed to live in this ditch of dissatisfaction. I'm getting better but I'm never going to be brilliant. But with comic book artists, every panel is something I'd happily blow up and stick on my wall. It's unfair. :indiffere

I will say that Alex Maleev in particular makes me bitter, as a recent search on David Mack's name has made me feel. Originally I felt annoyed that people were being rude to someone with a cool story, but now I know he's talented I'm bitter and I hope his journey home was long and boring and full of awkward silences without his Chuck CD's! And I also hope a bird poos on his car, and maybe he flatulates in an embarassing place. Possibly whilst wooing an attractive woman. No more than that though, I don't want to be too harsh. But the bird poo will be really hard to get off the car.

I don't get why people come to the cult, this forum sucks. It maybe was once great, but that greatness is fleeting. I wish it would be less General Discussion and more Books. In fact, I am now no-longer attending General Discussion. Ever.

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker;975878]he had a pretty good run on Daredevil, too, when it re-launched
[/Quote]
I [B][I]love[/I][/B] Daredevil. Dark, psychologically complex, genuine moral ambiguity, cool martial arts--the whole blind man with strong sixth sense thing--he's got mulitple flaws that give him depth for a hero character; plus, a nice red suit that's yes, spandex tight, yet somehow less cheesy than most superhero getups. Who gets to work on something that cool? Tell us about Daredevil days, David, if you please.

[Quote]
as to your point though, yeah, that's why I got a really hard time just declaring something or someone sucks anymore is because you never know who might pop in and be reading it anymore. If I don't like something for a reason I feel compelled to give a big long explanation why just in case they [i]do[/i] see it! Even for [B]Anne Rice[/B]![/QUOTE]

Yeah, we all know that [B][I]she [/I][/B]might. And not only does she have real human feelings, she has witchy powers, too.

<>

Thing is, besides the ethos of respecting any guest who might pop in on our world wide cocktail party, there's other good reasons in abundance for measuring critical words.

I'm sympathetic to Chuck's narrator in [I][B]Choke [/B][/I]when he pronounces, "Criticism is fake participation." He makes an overstatement, of course, as any thematic statement so large and so brazen would have to be. (The only thing you can shout through a megaphone with absolute truth or falsity is "Fire!" And even that one is only true or false relative to the speaker.) But I'm still sympathetic; plus, it's a brilliant pre-emptive strike against his [Chuck's] own critics, which gives me a chuckle.

At the same time, I've got just enough of the critic in me to suggest we break it down some, and see if the whole enterprise is devoid of merit, or only parts of it.

There's [B]scholarly criticism[/B], which art tries boldly every other generation to do completely without, but at the risk of never fully understanding itself. And for the practitioner, high-level, very educated and informed criticism is the finest intellectual practice there is. Even if you get cut adrift from the very fabric of the primary work you were criticising, you've taken an intellectual journey that could have its own merit.

There's [B]journalistic criticism[/B] - it's own little cottage industry - which aims to inform the masses in the limited vocabulary and word count of newspapers, and in the vein of "I study books, films, etc., for a living, and can save you some time in making your selections." It's as ubiquitous as ad copy and I put equal stock in it.

There's [B]workshop criticism[/B], which is sometimes called "constructive criticism." The best of it is just as specialized as scholarly criticism, but comes from the humbler point of view, can be rendered in simpler language, and addresses a gamut that runs from naive reader response to the process of making itself - from a craft point of view, instead of an arts and culture point of view - This kind of criticism is most certainly [B][I]not fake[/I][/B], and can be of limitless value to the developing artist. It can also, of course, turn destructive.

Finally, there's [B]armchair criticism[/B]. That's the kind that everyone is qualified to render by virtue of simply forming an opinion. I don't have to be a gormet cook and I don't have to know the vocabulary of gormet cooks to tell you that the texture, taste, or temperature of a dish was either delightful or disgusting.

All that I ask for the forums is that armchair critics take a moment to consider that it's vastly easier to trash something than it is to create something. It satisfies your primal need to destroy ("something beautiful"), and it does so without you breaking a sweat or risking anything. Contextualize that dark side and don't let it run away with you. We don't need to worship the makers in our midst, but we should respect that what the makers do is something fundumentally more demanding, emotionally involving, skill intensive, and high-risk in half a dozen other ways, than anything the everyday critics do.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy;975194]
I think it's sad that he got jumped on for posting a tour experience in our pisshole of a General Discussion forum. And it's equally sad that now we know who he is people have to line up on opposing sides of "I'm a groupie!" versus "He's just plugging himself!"

Sheesh. Seriously. Fuck you people.[/QUOTE]

Geez. All I said was that I was a fan. No need to hurt my feelings.

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;975024]Was this an intro thread or a Plug? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Jeez, i made a simple joke and now all this erupts, whats wrong with a bit of playfull banter. Doesnt every newbie go through this including me. If I offended anyone then im sorry but for the thread to get so touchy well then I wont apologise for that.

. .

barc, i got the joke. but i could see how it could be read out of context. we've spent half of the passed year getting bombarded with spam, because this section is part of the freebie stuff, it costs nothing for anyone with anything to sell to come here and plug away. and while fighting all of that spamming, some of us take the word "plug" powerfully literal, is all. i dont think any of us with clear mind could think that david would come here just to plug his book and hopefully get three or four more people to read him. the fact is, we deal in recommendations all the time. i recommend, nate recommends, you and she and he. reading about D's personal chuck experience, and knowing that he is a chuck fan, then yeah, i would want to know more about him.

So, yeah.. it's not that the joke wasnt slightly amusing. just bad timing, brother. in fact, this whole thread got a bad rap. unfortunately because this is david's first thread.

[b]yeah, there's no way to fix this thread..[/b] but we could partake in some interesting banter.

So, VP. Did you not see any other cultists at this show, maybe some others who may have viewed the same experience that david and yourself semi shared ?

-kabol

.

If anything this thread has highlighted the lowpoints of this forum, people too eager to banter and not eager enough to talk about writing. This [I]is[/I] a writer's cult, right? Regardless of who the new member was, it was a rude way to greet anyone. I know I haven't been the best of forum users, but even I think the forum could really acheive some intense levels of greatness if people just bothered to work instead of spending their free time wanking over shitty porn and posting in Pointless Announcements.

[QUOTE=Caligula7;976068]Geez. All I said was that I was a fan. No need to hurt my feelings.:([/QUOTE]

No need to take my comments as directed at you. Your report of being a fan is harmless, in itself, but if you look closely, I'm objecting to the overall situation--the shallowness and rapid polarization of the thread that your own element, harmless in itself, became a part of. For the record, I was as offended as Mirka at the posts she had to delete and I found it in incredibly poor taste that Barca, not you, would extend the antagonism. My strong words were not for you, but for the people who antagonize newcomers and trivialize serious and sincere discussions.

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;976076]Jeez, i made a simple joke and now all this erupts, whats wrong with a bit of playfull banter. Doesnt every newbie go through this including me. If I offended anyone then im sorry but for the thread to get so touchy well then I wont apologise for that.[/QUOTE]

See above. Banter has its place and a thread that administrators have had to intervene on moments before is not the place for it.

Ok, I get your point but I didnt mean any harm. I never go out to antagonise people but maybe I crossed the line. I apologise sincerley to David Mack, VP and Mirka. I meant it as a silly joke and since Ie offended peop Im sorry. if david Mack sticks around and joins the postcard thread I will honestly send something for him from ireland.

I shall also PM him with my apolgies. I hope you know I am sincere otherwise I just would have stayed away from the thread and said nothing.

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;976086]Ok, I get your point but I didnt mean any harm. I never go out to antagonise people but maybe I crossed the line. I apologise sincerley to David Mack, VP and Mirka. I meant it as a silly joke and since Ie offended peop Im sorry. if david Mack sticks around and joins the postcard thread I will honestly send something for him from ireland.

I shall also PM him with my apolgies. I hope you know I am sincere otherwise I just would have stayed away from the thread and said nothing.[/QUOTE]

I will accept that and call it a good move on your part. Please understand that intent often gets lost in online forums--especially ironic or comedic intent. It doesn't show through in posts very well, especially when the surrounding context is of a different colour. I read your post as a straight-up challenge to the legitimacy of the discussion and David's presense here. I think he did, too. It grieves me, personally, if we lose an interesting and talented new member to that sort of thing. It also sucks dog's balls if the next time he sees Chuck, he says something like: "your website is an awesome piece of work, my friend, but the members are assholes." I'd rather ask Mirka to bulldoze General Discussion than see a climate where self-respecting artists and authors don't dare speak up on our boards. I'm pretty sure there have been times when she's considered it.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy;976087]I will accept that and call it a good move on your part. Please understand that intent often gets lost in online forums--especially ironic or comedic intent. It doesn't show through in posts very well, especially when the surrounding context is of a different colour. I read your post as a straight-up challenge to the legitimacy of the discussion and David's presense here. I think he did, too. It grieves me, personally, if we lose an interesting and talented new member to that sort of thing. It also sucks dog's balls if the next time he sees Chuck, he says something like: "your website is an awesome piece of work, my friend, but the members are assholes." I'd rather ask Mirka to eliminate General Discussion completely than see a climate where self-respecting artists and authors don't dare speak up on our boards. I'm pretty sure there have been times when she's considered it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks VP, for accepting my apology.
I think its great when I see artists and writers show up on the boards and if Ive caused anyone to leave the forum then im truly sorry. I feel this thing has spiralled a little and I hope one one-line post doesnt cause as much trouble again. there were days when i frist joined the Cult and i thought a lot of peope were assholes but I didnt judge them all or the Cult in general on one line. I hope this is now put to bed.

we're still on this topic?
3 pages is usually moved on to dick and fart jokes by now!

[QUOTE=JKabol;976078]. .

So, VP. Did you not see any other cultists at this show, maybe some others who may have viewed the same experience that david and yourself semi shared ?

-kabol

[/QUOTE]

Semi shared? We could have stretched our arms across two rows and touched fingers. That's pretty close to the same view on the same event. But I didn't have peanut butter and chocolate chip cookies to eat while someone passed out to the Guts reading. And then, I was already in Lexington, since I live here, and I didn't have the neat experience of coming into town just to bail my brother out of jail, and finding Chuck by accident; otherwise, I'd say we got exactly the same show.

Other cultists at the show included Dallas Kratzer, who came in an ancient, slightly withered and yellowing white wedding dress that some friend's mother gave to him out of her attic. He's been my date for Chuck's readings two years in a row now, since I know him from our intensives; otherwise, let's see, Paul the Whip Guy was there, drove all the way from St. Louis, and did just exactly what I'd asked him to do: he came up and tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Hey, I'm Paul the Whip Guy." Besides that, other culties I know were probably there, but oh, mysterio-so to me. Wait, I think it was inkslick, from Knoxville, who took a shot of me and Dallas outside the theater, said something about sending pictures to Dennis, then hurried off without an introduction.

We picked up a few new members from the event, of course, people who posted in the Lexington tour thread. I'm not sure if any of them have really stuck around.

. .

hey, i remember paul the whip. he was in the baer intensive last year when baer essentially handed most of us our asses on pov slips. i remember inkslick, but nothing remotely personal about him. funny guerrilla tactic with the flash and dive camera technique. that had to have been a hellava show..

.

[QUOTE=JKabol;976131]. .

that had to have been a hellava show..

.[/QUOTE]

When we got the fainter, it happened near the very back of a 700 person room, and my crew was all in the front; so we didn't really hear the minor commotion. Of course, Chuck saw it, paused, stared to the back of the room, and offered a sympathetic-sounding, "Is everybody all right?" This made the whole crowd turn their heads to the back. Then, without missing a beat, he says, "The number's so high now, I've lost count."

Master showmanship.

There's an excellent account, and some decent pics, in the [URL=http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=28677]Lexington tour thread[/URL]. But I think the shots of me and Dallas must still be locked up in Inkslick's private mySpace page.

[QUOTE=JKabol;975215]. .

[font=ariel]hahaha all the pissing. must be the beginning summer heat. always fucks with me.

[b]hey, david. it's great that youre here, that you took the time[/b] to tell us of a unique experience and it's easy for everyone to get confused with posts on a message board--no facial expressions, no hand gestures, no body language--the only thing you can read is the scribbling of someone else from afar, and sometimes it takes this many posts to figure everything out. kind of like a novel in that you dont always know what's going on in the opening chapter, but after a while things make sense.

are there any other authors that you love similar to palahniuk ?
how about amy hempel or will christopher baer or craig clevenger ?
basically, who do you love ? and most important, who have been your influences ?
glad to see you stuck around for a bit longer.. :headbang:
-kabol[/font]

__________________[/QUOTE]

Hi JK,

Yeah, I understand. Words translated different in person, and people respond differently in person than they do on a message board. Certainly no hard feelings to anyone from my end.

To tell you the truth, most of my reading is in the non-fiction category. I love reading biographies and autobiographies, and books about history and science and psychology etc.
Much of that is a passion for learning new things and I have the excuse of using it for research and to use facts and history as building blocks of non-fiction into my own stories to make the fiction more believable and relatable.

But mostly I'm fascinated to learn new things and cutlivate broader interests. But I always find a way to make it functional and applicable in practical ways into my own work.

As a kid, I was really struck by Vonnegut, and Joseph Heller and George Orwell and John Irving, and Lewis Carroll. And it some ways I suppose I have been consciously influenced by some of that. Often, it seems your influences are the things that made your world bigger as a child. So throw Dr. Seuss into that too, and myths and legends and bible stories into that too.

These days it is the facts that I find interesting and incorporating into my own myths.
And it takes someone really special to grab my attention into fiction. Palahniuk has that.
I'm always attracted to artists that dance to the beat of their own drum.
I also recently read Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close which I also enjoyed, as a recent fiction work.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy;975873]I picked up Kabuki, Circle of Blood, Volume 1 last night. It's amazing work. David is both the writer and the illustrator for this series and he has enormous talent and numerous other creds. He's designed album covers for major recording artists, designed toys, you name it. And his writing and artwork is completely out of the box and beyond the usual.

It takes all of maybe fifteen minutes to do enough research to realize that he made a big enough name for himself in the 90's that he doesn't need to come onto our forums just to scrape up maybe half a dozen new fans.

Beyond that, he's in a mutual admiration society with Chuck Palahniuk, which I'd have to say is pretty cool, considering no one finds this forum without being a Palahniuk fan, first.

And quite simply, regarding David, he's a professional creative person. Putting aside whatever jealousy that may spark in some, we have dozens and dozens of amateur creatives on these boards--people who would [I]love[/I] to turn their [I][B]love[/B][/I] for writing, art, film, music, or comic books into a viable career.

It would do my heart some good if the high velocity opinion jockeys in our midst would stop and think before they offend somebody. We have very rich, productive work and great discussions going on in our Book Club and in our Workshop Master's Program, and elsewhere on the site; but unfortunately, new members usually get a big dose of piss and vinegar from our General Discussion board first. It makes a bad first impression. And it's as sad as the day is long if that bad first impresssion drives away not only good and intersting people of every stripe, but professional creatives, to boot.

David, welcome to The Cult.

-VP-[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I'm happy to be here.

And that is very kind of you to actually check out that first volume of my Kabuki series.

I really appreciate the kind words about the book.
But I should also say, that I think the more recent volumes get better
I did that first volume when I was 20-21 years old in college and turned it in for my senior thesis in writing.
It is the earliest work of mine that I allow to remain in print, and I like to think the other volumes get better as they go, and that I've improved over the last twelve years

You know, you can see some things that you could have handled with more finesse now, but some other things that still hold their charm. But I guess in a way that kind of thing, looking at your earlier attempts, is a kind of diary of your progress, and a time capsule of your best efforts at the time.
And ultimately it kind of has its own life apart from you.

I like that you mentioned that you have such thorough discussions on the book club and the workshop Masters program.
It seems this site is quite extensive and productive in that area.

I love that you and the others here are so dedicated to cultivating your own personal stories and approaches here.

Forgive, my ignorance here, but I hope people here will please feel welcome mention their own interests and dreams and personal approaches to thier own work.

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;976089]Thanks VP, for accepting my apology.
I think its great when I see artists and writers show up on the boards and if Ive caused anyone to leave the forum then im truly sorry. I feel this thing has spiralled a little and I hope one one-line post doesnt cause as much trouble again. there were days when i frist joined the Cult and i thought a lot of peope were assholes but I didnt judge them all or the Cult in general on one line. I hope this is now put to bed.[/QUOTE]

Hi Barca Boy,

Thank you for the PM.
I appreciate your good will. And no hard feelings.
Thanks for making the effort, and I look forward to getting to know you and everyone here.

Kindest regards,
david

[QUOTE=David_Mack;977466]Hi Barca Boy,

Thank you for the PM.
I appreciate your good will. And no hard feelings.
Thanks for making the effort, and I look forward to getting to know you and everyone here.

Kindest regards,
david[/QUOTE]

That cool David,

Glad to see there are no hard feelings, have a good look around here there are tons of things to read.

Welcome.

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;977469]That cool David,

Glad to see there are no hard feelings, have a good look around here there are tons of things to read.

Welcome.[/QUOTE]

Thank you,
What do you recommend as the best forums to read and post in?

[QUOTE=David_Mack;979414]Thank you,
What do you recommend as the best forums to read and post in?[/QUOTE]

Personally, I think it should be compulsory to post in the 5 Books everyone shoud read thread.
Pointless Announcement is also a great way to begin a conversation about anything.
How about posting your own Introduction thread in the new members section?
There are heaps more, just use the search tool and you cn find anything you are interested in, which do you like, movies, books both?

[QUOTE=David_Mack;977464]It is the earliest work of mine that I allow to remain in print, and I like to think the other volumes get better as they go, and that I've improved over the last twelve years

You know, you can see some things that you could have handled with more finesse now, but some other things that still hold their charm. But I guess in a way that kind of thing, looking at your earlier attempts, is a kind of diary of your progress, and a time capsule of your best efforts at the time.

[b]And ultimately it kind of has its own life apart from you.[/B]
[/Quote]
So true. Sending your work out to live in the world is like sending your kid who was a troubled and unpredictable teen to some college 500 miles away--complete with the old family car, your last hundred and fifty-five dollars in cash, and an order to call or write periodically. He may become a doctor, a dock hand, or a merchant marine sailor. He may drop out and resurface five years later as a minor crack lord or a jubilant youth minister. Or he may be home in six months living on your couch, flipping burgers to buy video games. Your genes, parenting skills and best intentions can only do so much. So you send even your handsomest, smartest child out into the world, and you cross your fingers.

[Quote]
I like that you mentioned that you have such thorough discussions on the book club and the workshop Masters program.
It seems this site is quite extensive and productive in that area.
[/Quote]
Yes, it's HUGE and somewhat bewildering at first, and oddly addictive. We're one of the busiest--maybe [I]the[/I] busiest--author forum on the web. We not only have a lot going on, we have the inevitable split into multiple cliques and sub-cultures. Once you penetrate the hard outer layer, though, most of the groups are fairly permeable and fluid. You can find your way to the happenings that fit your personality best, without too many trolls waiting under the bridge.

[Quote]
I love that you and the others here are so dedicated to cultivating your own personal stories and approaches here.

Forgive my ignorance here, but I hope people here will please feel welcome to mention their own interests and dreams and personal approaches to their own work.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, most cats here aren't too shy about speaking up. I'll give you some background and some projections on me.

I became a radio announcer and a voracious reader in my late teens--about equally invested in rock & roll, communications theory, science fiction, philosophy, and self help. Then, I got the bug for beat literature and transcendentalism in my 20's--read everything from Emerson to Kerouac, wrote lots of poetry, wrote and produced a play in college, did a bit of acting.

I took college in small doses, two years here and two years there, with travel, a bit of struggling, some horrible shitty jobs, and a great woman or two in between--as I continued my winding path of self-education. I'd reconfigure myself when I re-enrolled in school, experiment with different majors. In psychology classes, I went electric fast from being the eager acolyte to something more like a foil for my instructors--nicely calling out a small but critical five to fifteen percent of psychological theory as utter horseshit, explaining the parts that are good with less reliance on jargon and better points of reference to centuries of humanistic study, and sparring eagerly with a class of college professors who--for all their pretensions of secular enlightenment--are more narrow in their thinking and more uppity about their [B]status[/B] than most people over in the humanities departments. Most psychologists have a bad case of science envy.

In the philosophy department, where it turned out I was much more at home, I did quite well, and loved my instructors--brilliant guys (not being sexist here... the big three in my department happened to be all male) with degrees from Harvard, Nortre Dame, and the University of Chicago--men who showed up to class in jeans and T-shirts and who traveled on a genuine open door policy and a first name basis with students. A philosophy professor who is the Real Deal has the mind of a literature professor, an atomic scientist or mechanical engineer, and a priest, somehow grafted into one being. And yet, he doesn't take his status so seriously as a psychologist does, and he doesn't have that cold, over-practiced type of control that predominates in people with clinical training.

In the land of the philosophers, I was at home, but I was not king. I spent a few years happily bent on being as impractical as possible, making a study of life and thought that quickly becomes far too abstract for any pedestrian concerns of applicability. I was at home there, yes, but no genius of that kind. Among them, I was more a visiting writer and literary type. Of course, so was Nietzsche and Iris Murdoch.

Over in English Literarture, I was a visiting philosopher and iconoclast who didn't like the constant imposition of cultural politics that now predominates in the study of literature. I wanted to talk aesthetics and admire the way a certain author handled objects and spaces or points of view. I did [I][B]not [/B][/I]want to dwell for endless semesters on neo-colonialism, feminist firebreathing, and the endless imputations of cultural misogyny.

And of course, I had my allegiances with creative writing professors, and spent a good deal of time in workshops, and working on a publication or two. A block from the university, I hosted an open mic night for a year and a half, facilitating creative expression on a nice little stage where I'd become known as a performance poet, my previous acting and radio experience coming to the fore. I'm a natural behind a microphone, and dabble a bit at music, as well. I've always loved the graphic arts, too, but your area is way down the list for me in terms of my own natural talent and drive.

I didn't really turn my full attention to the crafting of literature until I found my way to The Cult in 2003. Right away, I stepped in to fulfill a workshop facilitator role and I've been privileged ever since to work with [I] generations[/I]* of great students here, and to learn directly from Chuck Palahniuk, and from several other authors of incredible talent and vision. I initiated the Master's Program in our workshops--[I]where established authors teach multi-week classes for our writers in a private forum, and supported with conference calls[/I]--and it's one of the proudest accomplishments of my life.

My projects and goals for the future include becoming a published novelist myself, and possibly working in screenwriting, as well. That, and I'll teach. One way or another, I'll be involved in the transmission of the best things I've managed to learn. Part of that is already happening right here at The Cult, as my facilitator role sometimes bleeds toward the edges of assistant professorship and professional level editing.

The novel is first for me because writing is my chosen art form--[I]the form that chose [B]me[/B]--I would happily have been the next Bono or Sting, instead. [/I] And of all the various types of writing, the novel offers the broadest scope, the nicest matrix of range, reward and artisitic freedom. There's so many things you don't do in a short story because it's short, so many things you don't do in a screenplay because they can't be effectively dramatised and [B]shown[/B] up on screen--especially, in less than two hours.

The novelist is a [B]psychologist[/B] charged with rendering plausible combinations of human behavior that don't rely on the stilted machinations of pseudoscience or the insurance clerk mindset of the statistician; relying instead on perfect intuition that can be fed by even the narrowest stream of naturalistic observation. The novelist is a [B]philosopher[/B] charged with making the abstract concrete, [i]demonstrating[/i] any great theme or truth of human nature, instead of only theorizing or pontificating about it..[I]. sometimes demonstrating the wild experiment at the fringes of possibility, as well. [/I]The novelist is a [B]dramatist[/B] with a searchlight into the human mind, and no constraints of stage or screen. The novelist is a [B]poet[/B], tapped directly into the music of natural language. And the novelist is an [B]artist[/B], who determines not only the figure in the foreground, and the objects in the background, but even the size and shape of the frame. The physical dimensions of a book and the meager blockiness and artlessness of typeset are no barrier to the dimensions of thought that provide transport for the mind. For all of these reasons and more, I shape my tools toward the writer's art, and particularly, the novelist's art--[I]apprentice[/I] myself to that task--with equally no desire to rush and no desire to tarry in the shoals.

[INDENT][SIZE=1]*I say [I]generations[/I] because we live in accelerated time on the net. Four years sometimes holds the gravity of four decades. [/SIZE][/INDENT]

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;979420]
How about posting your own Introduction thread in the new members section?
[/QUOTE]

Hey Barca, that's what you're looking at here. I moved David's thread from General Discussion to the New Members section--so this effectively has become his introduciton thread. Thanks for smoothing out the covers on the previous conversation.

-VP-

Thanks VP to be honest I was a little hurt with what I had done and gald there is no hard feelings, as partof my apology I rang local comic shop and they are picking out a David Mack graphic novel for me to collect. Ive never bought a Graphic novel before!

Best Wishes to you and David Mack

Barca

[QUOTE=Barca Boy;981039]Thanks VP to be honest I was a little hurt with what I had done and gald there is no hard feelings, as partof my apology I rang local comic shop and they are picking out a David Mack graphic novel for me to collect. Ive never bought a Graphic novel before!

Best Wishes to you and David Mack

Barca[/QUOTE]

Barca,

Thanks I appreciate it. I hope you like it.
Let me know what you think.

And I may be in Dublin later this year on a signing tour.
I'll update here if I am.

Best to you too!
Give your local book shop my regards and thanks for making the book available to you.

I've got one of your Daredevil volumes right here with me, by the way.

[QUOTE=David_Mack;984839]Barca,

Thanks I appreciate it. I hope you like it.
Let me know what you think.

And I may be in Dublin later this year on a signing tour.
I'll update here if I am.

Best to you too!
Give your local book shop my regards and thanks for making the book available to you.[/QUOTE]

Great, Im living on the opposite coast but since its a small island I often make te pilgramige to Dublin to buy some books. If you are going to be there I will try and arrange to go. I can wear my Cult Tshirt. i bet you i you are doing a signing in Dublin its got to be in Forbidden Planet.

After the tongue-lashing we got from VP, I never wanna see this thread again. It's too painful...:indiffere

[QUOTE=Caligula7;985029]After the tongue-lashing we got from VP, I never wanna see this thread again. It's too painful...:indiffere[/QUOTE]

It's all good now, right?

By the way, thanks for the kind words about Kabuki earlier. I appreciate it.
I put a lot of time and effort into it, and anytime someone gets it and appreciates that, it is very encouraging.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy;980977]So true. Sending your work out to live in the world is like sending your kid who was a troubled and unpredictable teen to some college 500 miles away--complete with the old family car, your last hundred and fifty-five dollars in cash, and an order to call or write periodically. He may become a doctor, a dock hand, or a merchant marine sailor. He may drop out and resurface five years later as a minor crack lord or a jubilant youth minister. Or he may be home in six months living on your couch, flipping burgers to buy video games. Your genes, parenting skills and best intentions can only do so much. So you send even your handsomest, smartest child out into the world, and you cross your fingers.

Yes, it's HUGE and somewhat bewildering at first, and oddly addictive. We're one of the busiest--maybe [I]the[/I] busiest--author forum on the web. We not only have a lot going on, we have the inevitable split into multiple cliques and sub-cultures. Once you penetrate the hard outer layer, though, most of the groups are fairly permeable and fluid. You can find your way to the happenings that fit your personality best, without too many trolls waiting under the bridge.

Don't worry, most cats here aren't too shy about speaking up. I'll give you some background and some projections on me.

I became a radio announcer and a voracious reader in my late teens--about equally invested in rock & roll, communications theory, science fiction, philosophy, and self help. Then, I got the bug for beat literature and transcendentalism in my 20's--read everything from Emerson to Kerouac, wrote lots of poetry, wrote and produced a play in college, did a bit of acting.

I took college in small doses, two years here and two years there, with travel, a bit of struggling, some horrible shitty jobs, and a great woman or two in between--as I continued my winding path of self-education. I'd reconfigure myself when I re-enrolled in school, experiment with different majors. In psychology classes, I went electric fast from being the eager acolyte to something more like a foil for my instructors--nicely calling out a small but critical five to fifteen percent of psychological theory as utter horseshit, explaining the parts that are good with less reliance on jargon and better points of reference to centuries of humanistic study, and sparring eagerly with a class of college professors who--for all their pretensions of secular enlightenment--are more narrow in their thinking and more uppity about their [B]status[/B] than most people over in the humanities departments. Most psychologists have a bad case of science envy.

In the philosophy department, where it turned out I was much more at home, I did quite well, and loved my instructors--brilliant guys (not being sexist here... the big three in my department happened to be all male) with degrees from Harvard, Nortre Dame, and the University of Chicago--men who showed up to class in jeans and T-shirts and who traveled on a genuine open door policy and a first name basis with students. A philosophy professor who is the Real Deal has the mind of a literature professor, an atomic scientist or mechanical engineer, and a priest, somehow grafted into one being. And yet, he doesn't take his status so seriously as a psychologist does, and he doesn't have that cold, over-practiced type of control that predominates in people with clinical training.

In the land of the philosophers, I was at home, but I was not king. I spent a few years happily bent on being as impractical as possible, making a study of life and thought that quickly becomes far too abstract for any pedestrian concerns of applicability. I was at home there, yes, but no genius of that kind. Among them, I was more a visiting writer and literary type. Of course, so was Nietzsche and Iris Murdoch.

Over in English Literarture, I was a visiting philosopher and iconoclast who didn't like the constant imposition of cultural politics that now predominates in the study of literature. I wanted to talk aesthetics and admire the way a certain author handled objects and spaces or points of view. I did [I][B]not [/B][/I]want to dwell for endless semesters on neo-colonialism, feminist firebreathing, and the endless imputations of cultural misogyny.

And of course, I had my allegiances with creative writing professors, and spent a good deal of time in workshops, and working on a publication or two. A block from the university, I hosted an open mic night for a year and a half, facilitating creative expression on a nice little stage where I'd become known as a performance poet, my previous acting and radio experience coming to the fore. I'm a natural behind a microphone, and dabble a bit at music, as well. I've always loved the graphic arts, too, but your area is way down the list for me in terms of my own natural talent and drive.

I didn't really turn my full attention to the crafting of literature until I found my way to The Cult in 2003. Right away, I stepped in to fulfill a workshop facilitator role and I've been privileged ever since to work with [I] generations[/I]* of great students here, and to learn directly from Chuck Palahniuk, and from several other authors of incredible talent and vision. I initiated the Master's Program in our workshops--[I]where established authors teach multi-week classes for our writers in a private forum, and supported with conference calls[/I]--and it's one of the proudest accomplishments of my life.

My projects and goals for the future include becoming a published novelist myself, and possibly working in screenwriting, as well. That, and I'll teach. One way or another, I'll be involved in the transmission of the best things I've managed to learn. Part of that is already happening right here at The Cult, as my facilitator role sometimes bleeds toward the edges of assistant professorship and professional level editing.

The novel is first for me because writing is my chosen art form--[I]the form that chose [B]me[/B]--I would happily have been the next Bono or Sting, instead. [/I] And of all the various types of writing, the novel offers the broadest scope, the nicest matrix of range, reward and artisitic freedom. There's so many things you don't do in a short story because it's short, so many things you don't do in a screenplay because they can't be effectively dramatised and [B]shown[/B] up on screen--especially, in less than two hours.

The novelist is a [B]psychologist[/B] charged with rendering plausible combinations of human behavior that don't rely on the stilted machinations of pseudoscience or the insurance clerk mindset of the statistician; relying instead on perfect intuition that can be fed by even the narrowest stream of naturalistic observation. The novelist is a [B]philosopher[/B] charged with making the abstract concrete, [i]demonstrating[/i] any great theme or truth of human nature, instead of only theorizing or pontificating about it..[I]. sometimes demonstrating the wild experiment at the fringes of possibility, as well. [/I]The novelist is a [B]dramatist[/B] with a searchlight into the human mind, and no constraints of stage or screen. The novelist is a [B]poet[/B], tapped directly into the music of natural language. And the novelist is an [B]artist[/B], who determines not only the figure in the foreground, and the objects in the background, but even the size and shape of the frame. The physical dimensions of a book and the meager blockiness and artlessness of typeset are no barrier to the dimensions of thought that provide transport for the mind. For all of these reasons and more, I shape my tools toward the writer's art, and particularly, the novelist's art--[I]apprentice[/I] myself to that task--with equally no desire to rush and no desire to tarry in the shoals.

[INDENT][SIZE=1]*I say [I]generations[/I] because we live in accelerated time on the net. Four years sometimes holds the gravity of four decades. [/SIZE][/INDENT]

Hey Barca, that's what you're looking at here. I moved David's thread from General Discussion to the New Members section--so this effectively has become his introduciton thread. Thanks for smoothing out the covers on the previous conversation.

-VP-[/QUOTE]

VP,
Thanks for the information of you way of cultivating that path.
And you have a great way of putting things.
I think of the novel as psychologist as well.
Like a living dream, writing is a great way to work out all of the things that we haven't consciously assimilated or given context too in our waking/walking life.

I like how you explained things and it kind of reminds me that when you practice writing on a regular basis you learn to see you life as a story as well. It gives you a continuity factor to view your experiences in a way that can pay off in the next act.

And therefore makes you live much more consciously.
And at a certain point the living and the writing become the same thing, if you undersand where I am coming from.
And it sounds like you certainly do from how you contextualized your experiences.

I'm kind of big on the idea of writing or story being a first form that is the basis of all knowledge and culture. And wealth, and history and everything else for that matter.

I think of language as the first complex technology.
Technology being our way of interacting with the world and others beyond the limits of our physical bodies.
Story gives context to that language, and communication is something infinitely more powerful than simply expression.

To practices this on a regular basis cultivates a new level of consciousness in the practicioner, and gives you insight into your own life and story, and then ultimately influences you to take more responsibility to how you live that story.

In the process of my work, writing and art, but ultimately telling stories- I've developed certain principles that work for me on a practical basis and seem to be useful in the work but also in the life and in any practical application.

The current KABUKI story I'm doing right now- The Alchemy- sort of uses this idea as a blue print, in that the character is developing things that work for thier creative work, but actually seem to work in any other context as well.
The idea being, like a martial art, any true art, when practiced properly is useful at all times and practical in all things.
The story itself being a kind of blue-print from principles that I have developed by reverse-engineering my own experiences.

[QUOTE=corellion;984841]I've got one of your Daredevil volumes right here with me, by the way.[/QUOTE]

THanks

I hope you dig it.
Which one?

It was volume six. I thought it was one of the best stories I've ever read in a comic-book too, I loved the whole hero being a hero not a superhero kind of thing, looking after a kid and the sort. In the sense of the writer and artist working so well together. I loved the artwork. The stream-of-consciousness sort of style it came with. Was it done with water-colours? It was fantastic. I'm definately looking in to picking up a Kabuki when I can.

[QUOTE=corellion;996709]It was volume six. I thought it was one of the best stories I've ever read in a comic-book too, I loved the whole hero being a hero not a superhero kind of thing, looking after a kid and the sort. In the sense of the writer and artist working so well together. I loved the artwork. The stream-of-consciousness sort of style it came with. Was it done with water-colours? It was fantastic. I'm definately looking in to picking up a Kabuki when I can.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
Yeah, I used watercolors and a variety of mixed media. Whenevery I am doing a book with art, I think of the art as just another tool of the writing. So I try to consider the best, media, style, visual atmosphere, layout, etc, that would be best to communicate that particular story and then try to cultivate a unique look for that specific story.
Kind of like, choosing if a story is best in first or third person, etc.

I don't make a distinction between the writing and the visual. I think of it as the same thing and the visual being a wonderful new choice of weapons in the arsenal of the storytelling.

If you liked the experimental and unique approach to that, I think you will get a kick out of Kabuki.
I develope a new look for each individual volume.

Thanks for checking it out.
Let me know what you think.

[QUOTE=David_Mack;996699]
I like how you explained things and it kind of reminds me that when you practice writing on a regular basis you learn to see you life as a story as well. It gives you a continuity factor to view your experiences in a way that can pay off in the next act.

And therefore makes you live much more consciously.
And at a certain point the living and the writing become the same thing, if you undersand where I am coming from.
[/Quote]
Yeah, I do. Thanks very much for the feedback on those ideas.

The Big Stories that make up a culture start from the little stories that people tell each other in hushed tones against the crackling campfire. Advanced technologies change only the delivery.

[Quote]
To practices this on a regular basis cultivates a new level of consciousness in the practicioner, and gives you insight into your own life and story, and then ultimately influences you to take more responsibility to how you live that story.
[/Quote]
Agreed.

[Quote]
In the process of my work, writing and art, but ultimately telling stories- I've developed certain principles that work for me on a practical basis and seem to be useful in the work but also in the life and in any practical application.
[/Quote]
I'd love to know more about your working principles.

[Quote]
The current KABUKI story I'm doing right now- The Alchemy- sort of uses this idea as a blue print, in that the character is developing things that work for their creative work, but actually seem to work in any other context as well.
The idea being, like a martial art, any true art, when practiced properly is useful at all times and practical in all things.
[/Quote]
Very cool. And a great insight. I grew up practicing martial arts. And you're right: any true artistic practice changes you and changes your approach to any situation. Physically demanding sports do this, too, to an extent. And so does conventional military training. Genuine martial arts training is all of these things combined, providing philosophy, technique, tactics, strategy, ethics, self-respect, endurance, and physical grace.

[Quote]
The story itself being a kind of blue-print from principles that I have developed by reverse-engineering my own experiences.[/QUOTE]
Sounds great. Let me know if you ever circulate galleys or need advanced readers for anything.

-Mark

workshop('at' symbol)chuckpalahniuk.net (<-keeping the spiders from automatically assimilating this address by not spelling it out exactly. Not that I could get any more spam.)

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy;997362]Yeah, I do. Thanks very much for the feedback on those ideas.

That's a brilliant insight and a solid theme... something we could probably riff on for days. History backs you up, as well. At the risk of sounding obvious, every religion and every other form of tribal identification--from street gangs to national patriotism--is a story for a certain group of people about who they are individually and together, where they've come from and where they're going, and how they should treat others along the way.

The Big Stories that make up a culture start from the little stories that people tell each other in hushed tones against the crackling campfire. Advanced technologies change only the delivery.

Agreed.

I'd love to know more about your working principles.

Very cool. And a great insight. I grew up practicing martial arts. And you're right: any true artistic practice changes you and changes your approach to any situation. Physically demanding sports do this, too, to an extent. And so does conventional military training. Genuine martial arts training is all of these things combined, providing philosophy, technique, tactics, strategy, ethics, self-respect, endurance, and physical grace.

Sounds great. Let me know if you ever circulate galleys or need advanced readers for anything.

Thanks for the response.
I sure will.

Currently I have 8 issues of The Alchemy out right now, and working on the 9th that will complete this story.
After that it will be collected into hardcover first and then paper back and I'll keep it in print in that form forever.

But right now, I have them in comic book format.
After that I finish this current issue (this concluding chapter of the story), I'll be focusing on the book store volume, and I may be able to go back and tweak a few things if necasary.

I'll be happy to send you the current chapters as they exist now, if you'd like to see them.
They are basically like I said, a kind of blueprint of my principles in the creative process.
Although they are also a story about their own characters.
A few stories encrypted on top of each other actually.
So one works on its own, but the blue print and the others are there for those that would see them.

PM me your address if you like, and I'll send you some and will welcome any feedback.

Best!
David