The Matrix: Reloaded **Spoilers**

I LUVD TEH MTRAX MOOVEY IT WUZ RILEY KEWL!!11!!!!

durr HURR hurr....

I thought there were only a handful of quick shots where the CGI was painfully obvious. Most of the remaining action scenes were great, technically. I liked the overall plot too, and the direction it suggests.

The movie itself was dissappointing though, not because of the plot or the action...but more because of, I guess, the script and HOW they worked the action into it. If this movie were a cross-country road trip I would say that I absolutely loved our destination and all the little stops we made along the way, but the ride in the car was hell...with bad conversation to boot.

[URL=http://recommendedread.blogspot.com]and that's my final answer.[/URL]

Oh, man. What is that SMELL?

I know...

it's KITTY SPAM!!!!

would you rather i posted that entire fucking deluge of an essay into this thread? me no think so...

Good point!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PsychoKeety [/i]
[B]The new Hulk movie is a good example of this...don't use CGI when it isn't needed...I think he looks ridiculous. They could've done so well with makeup and small special effects. Entire CGI characters do bother me though, they just don't move right. [/B][/QUOTE]
they did that once AND IT LOOKED FUCKING HORRIBLE. you cant do that unless the guy can turn green. christ i cant stand the peple that bitch and moan about CGI. if you dont want too much CGI DONT SEE THIS KIND OF MOVIE

The end at last. So, I just got back from my 11 pm showing on Sat. of opening weekend. It's now almost 3 am. And I've come to a major realization that I don't think anybody's pointed out yet, especially those of you who complained that the story didn't go anywhere. This was a love story, top to bottom. I'll try and explain what I'm thinking right now, but no guarantees that any of it will make sense.
Nearly everything contributed to this ongoing theme of love. Tons of making out, sweaty dancing bodies, even a sex scene (which I thought was gratuitous until I made this realization). In the ranking of the seven deadly sins, lust is one of the least deadly because it is so close to love. The sex/rave scene's purpose was (perhaps) to show that human beings are obviously not above such "evils." But then we go on a wild ride and see that what Neo and Trinity have is truly love and not just a relationship based on steamy hot sex with awkward orgasms. We are shown that lust is evil when Frenchy makes the chick in the restaurant all wet. For those of you who aren't all buffed up on your Greek mythology, Persephone is the wife (albeit kidnapped wife) of Hades, keeper of the underworld (I think). So Persephone being Frenchy's wife in the movie automatically makes him one bad hombre, bad meaning bad, not good.
Love is shown nearly everywhere else, especially involving Neo and Trinity. They slobber all over each other, Neo doesn't want Trinity going into the matrix after his dreams, Trinity is all worried about Neo when he's fighting the million and a half Smiths, etc. The biggest evidence of this, though, and the biggest bit to support my love theory, is that, according to the Architect, Neo is unlike the other "One's" because there is the factor of love involved. All of those before him took the door on the left, the Blue Pill, if you will, taking them right back to the beginning. Neo, being the REAL One, takes the Red Pill, the door on the right to save Trinity. Love compels him to do this, and as I believe we will undoubtedly see, Love will save the world once more. This movie was an emotional building more than a plot building. We really didn't see any major changes take place from beginning to end in the matrix or the real world. I'm essentially in the same place I was when the movie started except for now I know for a fact that love is not merely a human emotion, but the key to saving the world.
Any other opinions I could express about the movie have already been made, so I won't contribute any recycled garbage to the pile.

Indeed..

I saw it again already, heh, and I liked it a whole lot more the second time around. I think the first time, I had heard so much bad stuff, I went in looking for stuff to pick at. This time, the action seemed a lot more fast-paced and the whole movie just flowed better and I really enjoyed it...

I LUVD TEH MITTRSXX IT WAS TEH KEWL!!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!!@!!!@2!!!!!1!!!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B]no...please elaborate. [/B][/QUOTE]

It was nothing astounding but "One" was written twice.

the anomilie(sp?) isnt neo its smith. because NEO is supposed to be the savior of the matrix and in the next one i think smith takes over everyone and takes over the matrix and if neo can stop sentinels outside of the matrix does that mean the real world is just another extention of the machine world?

Alot of people jump to that conclusion, but I have two pretty sound theories on why/how that isn't the case.

Or atleast, why I hold true to the belief that it isn't.

Which conclusion?

Smith = anomalie or The Matrix being inside another Matrix?

That's the first thing that came to mind for me, too, but that's too lame to be true, right? Heh. I mean.. I guess it could work, but i don't think that's it, and I feel like that would be quite lame. Akin to the "oh it was all just a dream" plot 'twist'.

Nah.. i completely agree it is a matrix within a matrix that is the only explanation for Neo stopping the squidies at the end of the movie.. and not to mention the fact that Smith moves into a human body out of the 'inner' matrix.

ohh and if no one else had made this connection yet... we are currently in the sixth version of the matrix and they're are five agents... which must you mean... THAT's RIGHT!! you guessed it!! the five agents are the anamalies of the other matrices before this one.

give me the reasons eponymous

The terminology would be "Deus Ex Machina", or a plot device that answers questions quickly and poorly at the conclusion point.

And, the theory.

When he was in the Architect's Room, he was given a choice of two doors. He picks one, and goes out it. But, how do we know where that door goes? We're dealing with the creator of the Matrix, is it not possible for that door to lead to a seperate and self-contained pseudo-matrix which Neo [I]thinks[/I] is the matrix, and then [I]thinks[/I] is the real world, so that even when he was thinking that he was unplugged, he... well... wasn't? This would follow well with the statement alluded to time and time again of "What is choice, really?". Sure, Neo gets a choice of the two doors, but those choices are created by someone who wants nothing but to control him. Now, why Neo blacked out after killing the Sentinels, I am not positive. If I was going to guess, he could have completely broken the rules of how that pseudo-matrix was supposed to work, and thus, blew his mind. I'm working only with the information given, and that is obviously supposed to be as little information as possible.

Also, there is another, more scant theory. Neo, as well as everyone who is born into the matrix, has alot of machinery stuck inside of his head/body. Is it not possible that there is something in there that Neo's brain-that-operates-on-a-different-level could use to short circuit the sentinels? Also tied in with that, Neo was attacked and nearly cloned by Smith. It is possible that just as Neo passed things onto Smith, Smith passed things onto Neo in that process, possibly helping him utilize said machinery. You have to remember that Smith is probably the most powerful agent in the matrix. He was the Number One guy in the first matrix, and now that he has gone rogue, he has the power to completely destroy the Matrix if he so chooses. So it's not as though he isn't one powerful cat.

Anywho, that's the short of it. Submitted for your approval.

And chester, what agents are you referencing? There are a number of agents. And previously there had only been 3. 5 has never been a determined number for the agents.

Also, on the topic of Smith taking over the body of Bane.

He has this power, this is not a contained within the matrix thing. If you die in the matrix, do you not die in the real world?
As such, if you were to have your brain wiped clean, and re-written (Think when you overwrite a file using notepad/Microsoft Word. "Overwrite? Yes/No") would you not lose all of your information, and adopt his? What would stop him, after uploading his personality into another person, from coming into the real world? Nothing. He would just have to arrange being pulled out of the matrix, and they previously stated that they are pulling people out faster than ever before. I would think that it's pretty easy to track down the right people, especially if you are "In tune" with the matrix.

It has been said that the thing that Neo changed in Smith, the one change that has effected him this much, is that Neo made Smith human. He wanted to get out of the system, he wanted to live, and not be stuck under a monotonous system. What Neo did to Smith very well could have given him the ability to become human, by giving, from Neo, what Smith lacked in personality (Which, if Smith didn't have said lacking items, might have killed the person when they were "unplugged")

Interesting theories, Eponymous. Hrm, I'd say he's just had so much practice controlling stuff with his mind, that he's finally learned to break it into the real world. Telekinesis and such. But I'm guessing that's not it. I just like that. I've got a thing for having mental powers that let ou do neat stuff, so I just wanted to squeeze it in.

I feel only slightly ashamed for knowing this damn much about the story, but I had to take one for the team and read up on it, so I could explain to friends, who undoubtedly will want answers.

I liked the movie, I feel it is my duty to recruit other people onto the team...

neo died in the matrix then he realized it wasn't real and came back to life... correct?

are you sure there are only 3 different agents.. i'll have to re-watch the first one...

the point is that a program can't exist w/o a computer. If smith overtook the body in the Matrix he wouldn't be able to exist in the real world because its not a computer. The humans can dial into the matrix and exist within it, but they aren't neccesarily programs.

Ohh, and anyone figure out how those people in Zion can connect to the matrix... i thought they had to reach broadcast depth with one of their hovercraft ships before they can enter the matrix.

No no, you're misunderstanding. Smith, becomes human. When he clones, he overwrites every inch of their brain, with him. So that in effect, he becomes a human being, because they are still alive, but exist only with Smith's identity.

yeah, but all those people are still hooked up to the matrix... wouldn't that make a difference?

Yes, it would, and as such, him becoming human wouldn't matter UNLESS as that human, he sought out the resistance, and had them unhook him thinking that he was an innocent human. Which, is very likely.

lol... yes cuz it happens... very often ... that a mind hooked up to the matrix realizes it is living a dream.. in fact all one has to do is go find a person from the rebellion and ask to be unhooked.. yes. now i understand

You also have to remember that not every person you see walking around within the Matrix has a real human attached to them in the real world. Quite a few of the "people" in the Matrix are merely computer programs meant to flesh out the scenery. Neo realizes the Oracle is a program, not a human.

Any time you see an Agent take over someone's body, that "person" was just a computer program. It wasn't a real human plugged into the Matrix. That was the case until Agent Smith figured out how to enter a real human body in Reloaded.

Well hello there, smartass.

It's Smith, it's not as though he's trying to find the fucking Easter bunny, he has dealt with Neo and Morpheus and Trinity before, so he has more than a shit's worth knowledge of where and how to find the rebellion. I'm not saying that I know exactly how it works, but it's by no means out of the question that an individual who used to be the most powerful agent in the Matrix can track down a way to get unplugged, if he has the ability to get unplugged.

How the hell do you think it works?

alright.. assuming there is someone dumb enough in the rebellion willing to unplug someone that knows of the matrix.. if you grasp my point...

And evolve, Smith could previously enter human beings bodies.

BUT.

He could not take them over. Instead, he would become them, and as such, he was only one person the entire time. The development in Matrix 2 was that he can reproduce, and become an army if he so chooses. That I know of, there is no set agreement on who is human and who isn't, but the accepted norm is, every regular citizen, is a human. Including police officers, and etcetera.

I see where you are going with that Chester, but my thought is, we're only human, and also, we're trying to recruit an army for Zion. While it would be nice if we were perfect in our selection process, I'm sure that it isn't infallible. I mean, would the resistance, who as previously stated is more actively unplugging people now then ever, be making sure that no agents get through? No. It's unheard of, and an impossibility, until Neo comes into contact with the reborn Smith.

I'm not saying it would have been easy. But I'm sure that Smith, whose goal in life it is to destroy the Matrix (As it exists now) would have fought pretty damn hard to get unplugged and into Zion, if he knew that there was now a chance for him to do so.

fair enough...

i think Smith's goal is to kill neo.. no longer to destroy zion.

i could be wrong on that.

He wants freedom. More than anything, he wants to not be confined, or threatened. If that means killing Neo and Zion, which it does, then so be it. It also means killing the Matrix, because he doesn't want to work within the confines of it. He hates it. What his eventual plans are, I don't know. But he wants to take down the system, on both sides.

Although, Smith very well may become Neo's Ally in the next movie, as he wants only to be free, and the matrix is the only permanant threat. He can become human, and he can live alone if he wants to, so Zion could eventually be if anything else tolerated by him. But the matrix, is the system that he hates, and it's the prison that he has been stuck in.

That whole argument was reeeeeeeeeeeetarded.

Wtf... Why does he have to find someone they would unplug? He just fucking took over Bane who was already in the resistance. It's so simple it's painful. Blah I say. Blah.

Oh. my. God.

Ahahah. Man, I'm an idiot. Was Bane a previously mentioned character?

I would have thought of that, if I could have remembered him from before in something, which I tried oh so hard to do, but I didn't know him from anything.

By the way, Damn you AND your thought process.

He was in that 'dream' Neo has... Wasn't he? Those two guys are running from the agent and one guy is like "holy crap did you see that agent?" and then he gets taken in by the phone. Then Bane is waiting for it to ring and Smith is like "sux 4 u" and takes him over. Then the phone rings and the new Bane goes in...

Or did I miss something you guys were talking about?

And that's the coolest line in the movie.

Bane says "Oh my God..." when that happens and agent boy response, "Smith will suffice." HE HE!

Hahaha. Fuck. I remember that. Completely. That IS him.

Jesus, I stepped straight over that. Yeah, what Disx said.

And damn your forward thinking, again.

Okay. Good. I'm not the one that missed something.

That whole debate had me soooooooooo lost for so long and I was trying to figure it out. Then I realized that you guys had apparently missed/forgotten about that little part...

nah... that whole argument was to prove my point that there is a matrix within a matrix.. and inorder for smith to take over one's body there would have to exist another matrix outside the one we know right now.

Yes. Well. We all can't be as smart as you.

Say that out loud, and somehow put it in the form of an insult.

Neah.

Now, I'm going to go watch "Brazil" for the first time.
And. Not miss a single plot turn for a change. maybe.

Chester: I'm not sure about that. See - 2 things here...

Die in the Matrix = die irl.
Learn kung fu in the Matrix != learn kung fu irl. I think, right?
But other stuff you learn in the Matrix, you keep irl. (ie: Neo's conversations with the Oracle & the Architect.)

So, that would make it seem like that whole "download this into me int he matrix so I can do it" thing is contradictory. Do they know kung fu, do they know how to fly helicopters and all that good stuff irl now that they've 'learned' it in the Matrix? Cos evertyhing else they learn seems to stick.

So, if everything they learn sticks, then getting copied over by Agent Smith would mean your personality IRL is now Agent Smith's. He's not really transfering into the real world, he just copied over his mind, so that changed Bane's mind irl, too. But then again, the Kung Fu stuff hasn't been shown to hold over into rl.. so I dunno.

yeah... i guess we'll just have to wait for the next movie to come out.. and all will be revealed.

the part i don't get...is how come every other time smith copies himself onto someone else, they end up looking like him...EXCEPT with this bane guy? he looks like himself? i dont get it...perhaps i missed it in that debate...i just kind of skimmed over it.

i dont think what you learn in the matrix you learn in real life...but i guess that is still unclear because we never have seen anyone really "do" anything outside of the matrix besides rave and neo killed some machines, but i don't think that has anything to do with what he's learned in the matrix...

You can't learn kung fu in the matrix and then use it in real life because your body isn't trained to do it. They probably know a little kung fu, but it's still out because they haven't trained at all in real life. However, Smith overwriting someone's memory effects real life because, well. That's their brain. Plain and simple, if Smith gets rid of everything on your brain, and moves himself in there, which is what he does, then that's how you're going to be in real life.

Also, Bane doesn't look like Smith because it's real life. Bane looks like Smith in the matrix because of Residual Self Image, or how one's mind pictures one self. Smith's mind, which is what was written into Bane's mind, sees itself as Smith, always. But Bane still looks like Bane in real life because your mind doesn't effect your appearance.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eponymous [/i]
[B]
Also, Bane doesn't look like Smith because it's real life. Bane looks like Smith in the matrix because of Residual Self Image, or how one's mind pictures one self. Smith's mind, which is what was written into Bane's mind, sees itself as Smith, always. But Bane still looks like Bane in real life because your mind doesn't effect your appearance. [/B][/QUOTE]

Did someone say my name? Oh i kill my self hahahaha

the past few pages have been somewhat like the two hour phone conversation my friend and i had about the movie after we saw it, and the separate three hour convo my boyfriend and i had about the movie...when you can argue, question, theorize about and discuss something to that extent, i don't care whether it's a book, a movie, a play, a painting, whatever...it DOESN'T suck. the end.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Chester383 [/i]
[B]Ohh, and anyone figure out how those people in Zion can connect to the matrix... i thought they had to reach broadcast depth with one of their hovercraft ships before they can enter the matrix. [/B][/QUOTE]

Took me a coupla seconds to figure that one out, but I think that they just have a construct/loading program type thing for an air traffic control type situation. Cuz they show people in the chairs by a dude at a terminal, then they show the people in the construct, air traffic controlling, so to write, and then they showed them in the chairs again.

Have to see it again, tho. So much to keep in mind. If the theatre close to work here had earlier shows of it, I would SO be there....

For all you people saying its a Matrix within a Matrix, heres proving you wrong:

In the Enter The Matrix video game, when you visit the Oracle, she explains to you why Neo could stop the Sentinels at the end of the movie. (Note: The Oracle is played by a different actress because of the other's death, and she explains that she had to change "form" to go into hiding because of threats from the Merovingian or something.) She explains that when Neo entered the Source, his mind seperated from his body. Also, he gained abilities he didn't have before, which is why Link says, "I've never seen anything move so fast." Therefore, when he exited the Matrix, his body was seperate from his mind; he was still plugged into the Matrix. Which is why, "Something is different, I can feel them." The Sentinels are part of the Matrix, and Neo being in the Matrix, could still do his "thing" to the machines, therefore destroying them, as they are wired to the Matrix. So, his mind stopped the Sentinels, not his body. The Oracle states that Neo is now in a place between the two worlds, the real and that Matrix, or something like that.

I hope that explanation helped and further removed you from the group of people who believe in the silly excuse for an ending such as the "Matrix within a Matrix" idea.

Gooday

EDIT: One more thing. Smith states that part of his code got imprinted onto Neo, and part of Neo imprinted onto him. They "exchanged" parts of themselves, so to speak, which is why Neo is said to be becoming more machine-like, and Smith more human-like. Because Smith had that bit of human in him, literally, and mentally (he now has the ability to "feel" and seek revenge, make his own decisions, etc. unlike the other agents), he [i] can [/i] enter the real world. He's part human, mostly program.

Think about it this way: The matrix is a representation of and from your mind. Who you are in the Matrix is represented by your mind. Your mind is basically code. When Smith became Bane (or anyone, at that), he basically overwrote the code in the victim's mind with his own. So when the person gets out the Matrix, his mind is reprogrammed with Smith's data. Which is why Bane does not need to [i] look [/i] like Smith to [i] be [/i] Smith. If the "Matrix within a Matrix" theory were true, Bane [i] would [/i] look like Smith; there would be no need for him to look like Bane.

I hope that helps as well.