LOST Season 4 Official Thread
Also, one of the things I'd like for the writer's to do is find a clever way of giving us the timeline of the future events so far. If I were to guess, I'd say Hurley's, Sayid's and Kate's flashforwards took place about 2 years off the island, and Jack's took place around 3 years off the island. My reasoning is that it'd take Jack quite some time to go from seemingly normal (Hurley and Kate episodes) to completely bonkers (Jack's episode), and that he told Hurley he was planning on growing a beard, which meant he probably started growing it pretty much after the episode ended.
Also, my theory now is that the Oceanic 6 were told the only way they'd be rescued is if they came up with a lie they could all agree to stick to, that they were the only survivors of the crash. They were told this by whoever is trying to get to the island (mostlikely by Widmore or Hanso), and Ben convinces Sayid that the only way to keep the island safe is by killing the Oceanic 6 and the people behind the lie, either Hanso or Widmore.
Also, I really hope that when the show is over and all the smoke is cleared, it doesn't turn out to be some sort of Christian themed resolution (the fact that Christian Shephard seems to be a hugely important character unnerves me a bit), or that the message is "corporations are bad, mmkay?". If they're going to lean more toward the second one, which seems pretty likely, I think it'd be an interesting twist at the end that it turns out that Jacob is the "bad" twin, that him trying to keep the island a secret is going to eventually allow the rest of humanity to suffer, and all these guys - Hanso, Widmore, Paik and the like - are actually trying to use the island to save humanity.
As for the Christian themed resolution. I doubt they'll go that route. Sure there's a lot of biblical references but there's also a lot of other literary references as well. I think it'll end up being more of just a puzzle where the resolution is in seeing all of these peices finally come together. That it will lean more to that way than what that "puzzle" turns out to be.
One theory and one thing that bugs me.
Theory addition- I dont think Jack wants to see Aaron because he realizes that he is 'Uncle Jack' and its just another bad legacy left by his father.
Thing that bugs me- Lets assume Claire died because Aaron is with Kate. This would then mean that Desmonds 'visions' are wrong and that Charlie died for nothing.
Yeah, there's definitely a shitload of references - and not just literary and biblical, but tons and tons of other religions and spiritualities - so hopefully they'll kind of all merge into something more than just favoring/disfavoring Christianity. I hope its somewhat ambiguous on the spiritual side, but very specific on the literal side, if that makes any sense.
As far as Claire being dead, there's no reason she doesn't get on the helicopter with Aaron. Whose to say Claire, Aaron, Kate and Jack don't get on the next chopper out of town, but then it goes down in the ocean and Claire is killed? That doesn't mean Desmond's vision is wrong, or that Charlie died for nothing, it just means that Claire died but Aaron survives. Also, it's intriguing that in season 1 Claire was told that she has to be the person to raise the child, but whoops, turns out it's Kate.
Id have to rewatch the episode from season 3 (which I dont have on DVD yet!) to clarify if Desmonds tells Charlie that Claire will survive vs. Clair will get off the island. Im looking on Lostpedia now.
Desmond just says that in his vision Claire and Aaron are lifted into a helicopter, that's all.
I still think Charlie died for nothing. His death was lame. I am all for killing folks off, evcen ones I like, such as Charlie. But he totally could have escaped from that room after Mikhail blew the window. He did what he had to do - disactivated the jamming signal AND discovered that the freighter did not belong to Penny. Why stay? To over-emphasize that he was sacrificing himself for Claire? Even lamer. He already proved he was willing to sacrifice himself by swimming down there. His death should have been set up in a way where as he could not escaped, never mind confined himself. He closed himself in!!!! That will always frustrate me.
I like the idea that Claire gets on the freighter, and is killed on the freighter, and that is when "Sayid thought with his heart and not his gun." But Sayid and Jack and everyone else are already skeptical of the freighties, so I dont think that is going to happen. I also like Jack feeling/being responsible for Claire's death. I want him to go all Ana Lucia vs Sharon on Claire, that would be great. Then he could get all broody and angry and bad actor-y, just like Michelle Rodriguez!
I hope they do not go the Jesus/God/Christianity route. I hope they leave religion out of it. I appreciate the religious references, both Christian and otherwise (though the Christian ones are the only developed ones, or Judaeo-Christian, rather - all of the other ones are throw-aways that dont mean anything, it is just a commodification of other cultures for the Lost writers, to make the show more hip). All that said, it needs to resolve itself as a Sci-Fi show. Not a huge givernment/big business conspiracy (X-Files) nor a religious metaphor (Chronicles of Narnia) but just good, old fashioned sci-fi. Christianity cannot explain Jacob, nor can it explain a giant smoke monster that can read people's minds/life histories and exploit them by manifesting in other forms throughout the island. So please, please, please dont try to force that kind fo garbage down our throats!
It is interesting... even if Juliette and Ben get off-isalnd, they cannot be members of the O6, unless they steal the identities of some dead airline passengers, and even then that will not work as they are broadcast all over the news when they return and someone would call them out as fakes. So the remaining two (I am sticking to Aaron not being one of them) have to be someone else. If Claire is also not one of them, then our options are, really, Locke, Sawyer, Jin, Sun, Bernard and Rose. I hope they dont break up either of the two couples. I can see Rose and Bernard staying on island, once they get over Locke going crazy. So maybe the other two are Jin and Sun? And maybe the two "deceased" passengeres that they rbing back are actually Ben and Juliette! There has to be some reason for them telling everyone their camp was made of 8 people and two died. The most logical reason is they have 8 bodies on the plane. Two of them come off the plane in covered stretchers, so everyone assumes they are the corpses. Why else would you add two dead people to your story? Unless they died on the freighter and they didnt want to throw them overbaord, which is also a possibility. I also dont know why Ben would leave the island, unless he is only doing so as he can save it. Obviously he is compiling a list of enemies and going through them all, but why cant he do that from the isalnd? Because The Flame is destroyed and he cannot do recon?
also, does anyone watch the episodes on abc.com? Is it just me or is the volume on the commercials there incredibly louder than the audio for the show? It drives me bonkers.
I watch the episodes on abc every firday night just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I probably missed alot this week, because my father can home about half way through the episode and wanted to be caught up on everything then. He talked through the remainder of the show trying to understand what was going on. I usually don't watch the comercials though, because you can just pause them and return to the show in the 15 seconds or so anyway.
Why is it that when Juliet suggests calling 911, Jack looks at her like she's retarded? If they are so unsure about these people, why not try to call someone else for help?
I think because calling 911 wouldn't do anything if you're outside the US. I'm sure most countries have their own special number to get ahold of emergency services, but I'm sure Jack thought the fact that they're stranded on a bizarre island in the middle of the Pacific, that dialing 911 would be a waste of time. Also, Juliet has a history of sarcasm, like when she told Sawyer they're building a runway for the aliens to land.
I just read an interesting theory that Miles is Ben's spy on the boat and that whole scene about $3.2M was actually a coded conversation. If Ben knew ahead of time who was going to be on the freighter, he probably figured his best bet was to try and maniupulate someone into helping him out, and because Daniel's craziness would be a liability, the next best bet would be Miles, who could be bought. So I bet within the next few episodes we're going to see Locke take off with Hurley to try and locate Jacob's cabin, and in their absense either Miles and Ben break free or one of the Others - Richard, perhaps, or maybe Alex and Karl - are going to arrive and spring Ben, who in turn breaks Miles out.
I just read an interesting theory that Miles is Ben's spy on the boat and that whole scene about $3.2M was actually a coded conversation. If Ben knew ahead of time who was going to be on the freighter, he probably figured his best bet was to try and maniupulate someone into helping him out, and because Daniel's craziness would be a liability, the next best bet would be Miles, who could be bought. So I bet within the next few episodes we're going to see Locke take off with Hurley to try and locate Jacob's cabin, and in their absense either Miles and Ben break free or one of the Others - Richard, perhaps, or maybe Alex and Karl - are going to arrive and spring Ben, who in turn breaks Miles out.
Its a good theory and it would throw people off since most people seem to think Michael is the spy on the boat.
Also the Christain Shepard thig, I hope it doesnt go that way either, I think the writers just throw out tons of refernces and how they relate to life on the island. I also hope the show doesnt go the way of 'Alias' and the whole Rimbauldi crap. That was a good spy show and then it just got recockulous. I hope Abrams and the boys dont get too out-there. I think sticking to the whole magnetic/space-time thing works.
Does it count as a flashback if it happens simultaneously for the character?
This episode is already great...
at least now we know why desmond was dishonorably discharged as well as why daniel farrady has memory problems
I vote most awesome Lost episode ever. That was intense. Desmond is awesome and Daniel is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters along with the helicopter pilot.
So, sadly, we did not get a whole lot of plot acceleration, nor did we actually "learn" anything all that new.
There is confirmation that time is "perceived" differently on the island. But the boat also had a date of December 24 which should be the same as on the island. (I think Lostpedia has day 96 being December 26. So that pretty close, it could be either an error on the writer's part or on the part of Lostpedia. But time seems to move at the same time both on and off of the island. However, time is perceived differently on the island. Not entirely sure what that means, but OK. It is a start.
We also know that there is some sort of electromagnetic barrier between the island and the outside world. If the boat truly was 40 km off shore than this barrier is less distance than that. For some reason, the bearing of 305 degrees allows you to make it through the barrier. If you do not head on an exact bearing of 305 degrees then there is the possibility of your consciousness being trapped in dual (or multiple, maybe, we dont know if this is possible) timelines. Somehow this does not seem to violate the time paradox. Why Desmond does not remember meeting Farraday or going through this ordeal is beyond me.
If your consciousness gets split into multple timelines, your existence becomes based on a set of mathematical variables. In order for your brain to not short circuit, and kill you, you need to find some sort of constant that exists in both timelines. Hypothetically, once you are able to establish a constant, hypothetically, you are all set. Whether this means you cease to be a shattered into multiple timelines and are again coherent or not is unknown. It is also unclear whether your future self will regain its memory lost, and whether or not your imminent death will be delayed or averted. Might the ending shot mean that Daniel's memory problems will now be resolved?
Also, we are now positive that the Black Rock has direct ties to the Hanso family, as well as to the Widmore family, as Charles Widmore bought it for a LOT of money 380,000 pounds. There were a lot of people who wanted that journal, so my guess is that numerous people have an invested interest in it. We dont know much else. How did a pirate ship get a hold of the journal? I would assume that the ship captain had it with him on the island... Did pirates make it to and off the island? Just what is contained in the journal that is so valuable?
We can also assume what "the sickness" is that Rousseau's other team members suffered from (this time-fracture).
Hmmm. More things on the brain, but I have work to do. I wonder how time is perceived differently on and off island, but moves at the same rate...
Also, next week's episode looks good.
You know, the Lostpedia for this episode rather sucks. It doesnt have all of Desmond's 1996 scenes, some of the trivia seems really far fetched, and I am a little disappointed. Maybe it will be better by tonight, I dont know.
I read on lostpedia that each episode was supposed to cover two days on the island, and that just isn't happeneing. Whats with the captian of their ship too, how does he not know about all of the equipment being fucked with if it happend a couple days ago?
Where is everyone else that usually talks about the show? I know it's just more than you oberon, that watches it.
Yeah, I dont know, apparently they're all off somewhere, not obsessing over pop culture in the same way that I might.
Finally the Lostpedai article for "The Constant" is less scattered and more cohesive. I say finally as if the episode hadnt aired less than 24 hours ago.
I like how Daniel Faraday's entire purpose for this show is to give us answers to what's going on. I loved the Desmond flashbacks, but nothing on the island seemed to progress, which was a little annoying, but next week's episode looks good. More later, I just wanted to let you guys know we are still out here obsessing, too...
yeah, i think it was an alright episode. but after all is said and done it will be an even more important episode than we realize. Like this episode will actually be "the constant" for the viewer for before and after they know how everything works out.
I am just listening to the february 19th podcast now, and, in reference to the polar bear in tunisia, carlton and damon suggest watching the clip that is posted as the comment in this thread. which implies that the island has properties that allow for teleportation. interesting. that does not explain why she smiled when she found the dharma collar, though.
On a side note, does anyone else think it is weird that all posts in this thread, between 9/30 and 1/31, no longer exist? Did a moderator delete them, to try and make this thread more manageable? Or were they lost somehow in the site upgrade? Or maybe there were not as many posts as i thought...
The clip doesn't really have to do with teleportation though. It shows an exact copy of the rabbit falling from behind but he's still holding the original rabbit. Maybe it has to do with the whole coming unstuck in time thing where the rabbits flashbacks and present have gotten to where they meet and there's two of them in the same time?
as for the posts, they were all here after the big switch but i guess eomthing hiccupped and they got lost on the 30th. I made a post noticing it back on the first page.
it doesnt seem that the clip concerns teleportation - but according to the producers, it does, at least in some way... they also noted the doctor's anxiety towards having the two rabbits in close proximity.
But they do reference this as relating t the polar bear being in tunisia, and to do with teleportation. The whole idea of being stuck (or unstuck) in time has to do, at least as far as we know for now, has to do with the consciousness, not with the physical body.
so while they implied it references time travel/distortion, it also has to do with teleportation, and will be explained more in upcoming episodes.
They also said we might get a glimpse of what the Others are doing in next week's episode.
what happened to the rest of the posts in this thread? wasn't it a couple pages long before?
touché, sir, touché
it doesnt seem that the clip concerns teleportation - but according to the producers, it does, at least in some way... they also noted the doctor's anxiety towards having the two rabbits in close proximity.
But they do reference this as relating t the polar bear being in tunisia, and to do with teleportation. The whole idea of being stuck (or unstuck) in time has to do, at least as far as we know for now, has to do with the consciousness, not with the physical body.
so while they implied it references time travel/distortion, it also has to do with teleportation, and will be explained more in upcoming episodes.
They also said we might get a glimpse of what the Others are doing in next week's episode.
Here is what I know:
From the Feb 19 Podcast:
Damon Lindelof: (explaining possible explanations for the polar bear) …There are properties of the island, shall we say, let’sl just call them properties for now, that are potentially capable, shall we say, of transporting things from the island, off the island
Carlton Cuse: It might be helpful, actually, for those viewers who are interested in this question, to go online and find the training film from The Orchid station
DL: Yeah, that would be a very good place to start.
CC: Rarely do we actually have things that aren’t actually in the show that are important to the show but in this case, it is important, but if you don’t see the Orchid trailer, when we get to it later…
DL: But its good to say if you’re curious how a polar bear with a Dharma collar ends up in Tunisia watch that film because that polar bear has certain things in common with bunnies that have 8’s on their backs. [He means 15’s and is thinking about the bunny with the 8 that they used to con Sawyer]
From the Feb 29 Podcast:
Damon Lindelof: There are certain, special places on the Earth that relate to our show, and this specific spot in Tunisia is one of them. Another, perhaps, is Ayer’s Rock in Australia, if you were to go back and look at a certain episode, “S.O.S” I believe…
I absolutely love the 4th season so far
My assumptions
The oceanic 6 are:
- jack
- kate
- hurley
- Sayid
- Ben(shows up in sayids flash forward)
- Locke(the funeral from jacks flash forward, i think it was lockes funeral which implies that he got off the island).
Baby aaron doesnt count like someone said because he was born on the island.
- The smoke monster is jacob
- The scientist who came to the island claiming to be the rescue crew were really hired by pennys father. He is directly involved somehow
- Miles has allready been identified as a ghost hunter so to speak, he was chosen to analyze the supernatural events of the island specifically jacob
Most of this has all ready been covered probably in the other 5 pages, i just had to type out my ideas before i forgot them.
Hey i just found this on lostepedia under the widmore corporation
"It is discovered by Sam Thomas that the Maxwell Group is a division of Widmore Industries. The Group for some reason is attempting a salvage operation on the Black Rock shipwreck. There is also an implication that someone inside the Maxwell Group is helping Sam in his attempts to find out what happened to Flight 815."
boom there is the explanation for the freighter team.owned by charles widmore (pennys father).
Well, there is the possible explanation. But don't forget that we see Abaddon assembling the crew of scientists with Naomi. He purports to be "a lawyer for Oceanic Airlines" which we all know is crap, but we do not know that he works for Widmore yet.
Obviously the freighter needs to have some connection to Widmore, as Naomi had a picture of Penny and Desmond. And, depending on the contents of the journal we saw him win at auction last week, it is possible that he discovered the island where the Black Rock was shipwrecked. If, however, this is the case, why did he wait until now to go after it? He bought that journal 8 years ago. The freighter team was not dispatched until the "wreckage" was found. And if The Maxwell Group is indeed searching for the Black Rock, why has it not been mentioned yet? Why did they send a a ghodt hunter, an archeologist and a physicist on a salvage operation? Also, we have yet to meet Sam Thomas. He was just an IT tech that worked at Oceanic, so the likelihood that he is the captain of the freighter or some other freighter person that has as of yet remained hidden to us is unlikely. Plus, considering he was searching for Oceanic 815 to find Sonya, his partner, I doubt he would not be on the first chopper headed off the freighter if he was in fact part of the mission. So I would lay odds he is not anywhere to be seen. (Plus, Rodger Corser, the actor who plays Sam Thomas, has not been listed in any of the credits nor the IMDb page...)
As of yet the connection between the fake wreckage, Abbadon, and the team of scientists headed by Naomi is somewhat unclear. And we know from the Find 815 game as well as last weeks episode that in that list of connections, as you point out, we need to add the Black Rock.
So while I dont doubt that Charles Widmore, possibly under the direction or tutelage of Hanso, has a direct connection with and possible financial back of the freighter, but his reasons as for why remain somewhat clouded, especially as no one has mentioned the Black Rock yet.
Also, the producers said that Ben was not a member of the Oceanic 6. Never mind, he would never want that. First off, he doesnt want to leave the island, we can only guess he does it just for the sake of preserving it. Second, people in the real world obviously dont like him. The Oceanic 6 were all over the news. He doesnt want that. But, yeah, the producers confirmed that there are two more we havent met yet. (They also said Aaron was not one, either, I am pretty sure)
Additionally, while Locke may be one of the 6, I dont think he is the one in the casket. First off, Kate would not have been so blaise about not going to the funeral if it has been Locke. Sure, she was mad at him and yeah, he banished her and all, but she would have still gone. As would have his ex-girlfriend, and possibly some co-workers. I doubt that no one woul have gone to see Locke put in the ground. I actually dont think that the person in the box was any of the O6. They are like celebrities. I feel if it was one of them, there would be random people there, who felt some sort of connection with them having seen their faces and heard thei names over and over again. I think it is someone else who has made it off island but is not part of the O6. More and more it looks like it might be Ben Linus, though I surely hope not.
OK, so, I misspoke above. I must have mis-heard the podcast or just remembered it incorrectly.
In a brand new interview with TV Guide ( http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-questions-answered/080304-01) Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof answered not fan but cast questions about the new season of Lost, and this is one of the answers:
Yunjin Kim (Sun): "Is Aaron actually one of the Oceanic 6?"
Cuse: We're not officially saying yet. We want the audience to engage in an active debate about who the Oceanic 6 are.
Lindelof: Following [Sayid's] episode, we got several inquiries we weren't anticipating about, 'Is Ben a member of the Oceanic 6?' He could've assumed the identity of somebody on the plane [with] no surviving family members. Who the actual six are is very much in play through the end of the [March 13th] episode. We'll confirm or deny after that.
However, I still hold to my belief that neither Aaron nor Ben are part of the O6, but I have, obviously, no producer support in my stance.
Something else to keep in mind, is the log about the Black Rock was being auctioned off by a Tovar(?) Hanso. So there's also some question as to why Alvar hanso and widmore would be so interested in getting ahold of the log to find the island when it was already in the hanso family. Maybe there's animosity between brothers or something and this tovar knows how dangerous or important the island is and wouldn't give them the log. but that doesn't answer why he would just auction it off then.
Hey has anyone checked out the missing pieces series? i am working on getting my hands on it within the next hour or so. Out of curious if anyone has seen it i have two questions:
Are each episode linear or are they?
How important are the mini episodes to the whole story its self?
The producers have said that there is no content introduced outside of the show that is necessary for the show. The only thing that is somewhat important is the Orchid training video, but that same information will come to light later in the show. The Missing Pieces are a lot of fun, and give new insight onto a few characters, including MIchael, Juliette and Walt, among others. They are not chronological, though, and they do not tell you which episode they are coming from. Some are pretty obvious, others not so much, though this doesnt matter much, as they seem really to be adding more depth to the characters as opposed to furthering the plot. They are all available on ABC's website, in the order they were released. There are 12 or 13 of them in all, each 1 - 2 minutes long, I believe.
LOST is rocking again, nothing to add, just loving it, that's all
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The introduction of Tovard Hanso throws my Jacob/Alvar are twins theory into a tailspin, since it'd be more likely that Alvar and Tovard are twins.
So, I think that Widmore has been trying to get to the island for quite a while, well before 8 years ago when he purchased the log book. I think he deliberately sent Desmond out to hopefully crash on the island, and I think the hatch exploding probably gave him some information on the rough whereabouts of the island, so that is how the freighter was in the position it was at the end of season 3.
As for the Oceanic 6, I'm going to guess that it's Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sayid, and probably Jin and Sun. I think Aaron, Desmond and Ben all leave the island on the freighter but they're not considered Oceanic 6, and I think Claire is killed. I'm going to temporarily halt my Kate-hates-Sawyer-because-he-allowed/had something to do with-Claire's-death theory about Sawyer being the main in the coffin because I have to agree with Oberon - even if all of the survivors despised him, there would be random people showing up to take photos and whatnot. So, I've no idea who the man in the coffin is. Maybe its Jacob, who dies when removed from the island, and that's what puts Jack over the edge, learning too late that Jacob was right about...whatever.
Random Tidbits...(i like saying tidbits i just found out)
- we know claire is not one of the oceanic 6, because kate is taking care of aaron
- we know jack, kate,sayid, & hurley are part of the oceanic 6
- Jacks father has not been proven dead, and has randomly been suggested to be on the island (weather this is the fog monster jacob or what not is not clear).
- The plot revelation that jack and claire are related really wouldnt come about any other way unless jacks father some how showed up...meaning he was on the plane and survived the crash or was somehow involved with one of the various groups who all have involvement in the island.(kates flashforward showed jacks hesitance twards seeing baby aaron). Or even just in the strange absurd way lockes father showed up on the island.
- Kate,saywer,Ben & locke, & Jin all have definite motives for sabotaging any way of them getting off the island.
- Season 4 seems to be building up to a conflict between jack and saywer instigated by ben or kate, over kate...the end result (based off of the fast forward) appears to be that jack and kate become romantically involved.
Opinions/Predictions
- Saywer has to die in some heroic way(most likely protecting kate), they have been building up the anti hero persona with him since season 1(this wont happen till the last episode of the last season)
- I agree with the idea that ben assumes a survivors identity and returns to the mainland to protect the others and himself(making him self an oceanic 6).
- Sun will die during childbirth (when is the 9 months up?)...all the women on the island died during child birth, the babys as well (wasnt that bens reasoning for hiring juliette?).
- Brian,Miles, and charlotte are not the bad guys at all..just working for bad people. Miles will be killed off very soon,as will charlotte,Brian will stick on till the season finale atleast.
- the spy on the ship is keamy unless the freighter captain appears soon i am sticking by this theory.
- Some how or another the freighter crew or who ever is hiring them will turn on the research team/freighter crew allowing the freighter crew and the research team(or possibly just the research team) to ask for the survivors help and in turn be integrated into the plot fully.
- I absolutely love brian as a character but he will die off by the end of this season as will desmond(the constant thing has been established).
Who is this Brian character you're talking about?
A few points: Sun is only a couple months pregnant, which means if she dies on the island it will mostlikely be during a flashforward, either on-island, or off the island and revealed through another character.
I don't think they'll wait until the last episode to kill Sawyer off, if they're going to do it. I'd like to see him killed in a flashforward this season, that way it's always stuck in the back of our minds that he's going to die, and although it may take away from some of the tension of the present story, it'd really tweak us emotionally from now until then, especially if they do it in a manner which is only revealed sometime in the final season, which would work out nicely for your Sawyer-as-Kate's-hero theory.
I don't know what Kate and Jin's motives are for staying on the island. Of all the people you've listed, they're the two who most want to leave the island (assuming Kate was lying about being pregnant).
I think we're going to find out who the final two Ocean 6 are, one this week, one next week as the freighter finally arrives and they board the helicopter. The producers have mentioned there is going to be a major cliffhanger after week 8, and I think that cliffhanger is going to be weather or not Claire is going to die. I think/hope she does.
Also, there was a great article on IMDb about the use of guns in the show, and they made a very good argument about having all the guns just go away - guns simplify things, making the writer's lazy and uncreative. It'd keep things more interesting if we get back to the time where there was only one gun on the island and everybody wanted it, rather than more guns than people as it seems to be the case nowadays.
Who is this Brian character you're talking about?
A few points: Sun is only a couple months pregnant, which means if she dies on the island it will mostlikely be during a flashforward, either on-island, or off the island and revealed through another character.
I don't know what Kate and Jin's motives are for staying on the island. Of all the people you've listed, they're the two who most want to leave the island (assuming Kate was lying about being pregnant).
Jin talks to sun about going to america instead of back home, and is hesitant and slightly frustrated...again far fetched your right
I think we're going to find out who the final two Ocean 6 are, one this week, one next week as the freighter finally arrives and they board the helicopter. The producers have mentioned there is going to be a major cliffhanger after week 8, and I think that cliffhanger is going to be weather or not Claire is going to die. I think/hope she does.
- desmond and daniel have eachother now
- bernard and rose have eachother
- jin and sun have eachother
- and thats really it unless jack makes contact with his father.
Maybe the "We shouldnt have left" comments simply imply the idea that many of the survivors died on the way home due to the constant phenominom.
Random Tidbits...(i like saying tidbits i just found out)
- we know claire is not one of the oceanic 6, because kate is taking care of aaron Just because she's taking care of aaron doesn't mean Claire's dead. Remember she was going to LA to give the baby up for adoption to begin with and the one dude saying how important it was for her to raise the baby herself. I agree Kate having the baby leads to believe claire's dead but that could very well be a red herring. I don't think claire's one of the O6 though.
- we know jack, kate,sayid, & hurley are part of the oceanic 6
- Jacks father has not been proven dead, and has randomly been suggested to be on the island (weather this is the fog monster jacob or what not is not clear). They had Jack identify his body in Austrailia in the morgue. SO unless they come up with he faked his death, he's pretty much dead. With him showing up on the island I'm wondering if it somehow can incarnate dead people's spirits or something. May be why Miles is there. Also may explain why Charlie showed up to hurley and the other crazy guy.
- The plot revelation that jack and claire are related really wouldnt come about any other way unless jacks father some how showed up...meaning he was on the plane and survived the crash or was somehow involved with one of the various groups who all have involvement in the island.(kates flashforward showed jacks hesitance twards seeing baby aaron). Or even just in the strange absurd way lockes father showed up on the island. With all the knowledge Ben's shown he has on everyone, he could easily fill that role without them bringing jack's dad back into it.
- Kate,saywer,Ben & locke, & Jin all have definite motives for sabotaging any way of them getting off the island. Now Kate may have a reason to stay on the island, but i think before the eggtown episode she was wanting to get off as much as everybody else. She still seems to want to leave but is just afraid of what's waiting for her when she does. Jin too seems to really want to leave now more then every to raise their baby. By the way, does he still have the watch he was supposed to give thatguy? they've gotten forgotten all about that it seems.
- Season 4 seems to be building up to a conflict between jack and saywer instigated by ben or kate, over kate...the end result (based off of the fast forward) appears to be that jack and kate become romantically involved. That may be a sub-plot, bt i think it's gearing more towards the Jack/Locke confrontation that's been building.
Opinions/Predictions
- Saywer has to die in some heroic way(most likely protecting kate), they have been building up the anti hero persona with him since season 1(this wont happen till the last episode of the last season) I can see that happening but if they do I hope they go for it as the season 5 finale. I think Locke will be the one to sacrifice himself to protect the island as the season 6 finale. Which kind of seems like a streak with Charlie sacrificing himself as the season 3 finale and makes you wonder who might do it as the season 4 one.
- I agree with the idea that ben assumes a survivors identity and returns to the mainland to protect the others and himself(making him self an oceanic 6). I don't think Ben is one of the O6, I'm still having trouble with Sayid being one of them. It just seems hard to believe that he would be this super assassin now being such a celebrity as the other's seem to be. But the guy on the golf course didn't seem to recognize him so who knows. Also something to keep in mind, we only see Ben sewing Sayid up in the kennel. That could very well be on the island and they're using this "magic box" to teleport on and off the thing.
- Sun will die during childbirth (when is the 9 months up?)...all the women on the island died during child birth, the babys as well (wasnt that bens reasoning for hiring juliette?). I think killing Sun would be about the absolute worst thing they could do. That episode where she learns Jin is the father has got to be one of the most heartfelt ones they've ever done. I don't know if they'll be part of the O6 but they might get off the island secretly somehow to be able for her father not to find them. Another thing, it's taking em 3 1/2 seasons just to get through 3 months so they don't really have the time left for her to be on the island for another 6 months.
- Brian,Miles, and charlotte are not the bad guys at all..just working for bad people. Miles will be killed off very soon,as will charlotte,Brian will stick on till the season finale atleast. I think Miles and Charlotte are going to switch roles. Where Miles seemed to bad guy and charlotte the eager helpful one. Miles will turn out to be the one to help them and Charlotte the one that will kill them to accomplish her goals.
- the spy on the ship is keamy unless the freighter captain appears soon i am sticking by this theory. I don't know who Keamy is. DO you mean Minkowski? I still think Micheal and Walt will be on the boat as to how they'll reintroduce them to the show. How Micheal would be Ben's "man" and getting the information to him I got no idea though...
- Some how or another the freighter crew or who ever is hiring them will turn on the research team/freighter crew allowing the freighter crew and the research team(or possibly just the research team) to ask for the survivors help and in turn be integrated into the plot fully. I think the freighter crew is defintiely hired by Penny's father and i think there's going to be a division among them and the reasearch crew same as there's a division between Locke and Jack. There's still not really enough information about them yet to get a good grasp on things.
- I absolutely love brian as a character but he will die off by the end of this season as will desmond(the constant thing has been established). I'm guessing you mean Daniel Faraday, Yeah i think he's doomed but I hope they keep him around at least until mid-season next year. He's too good a character to advance the plot with answers to kill off so quickly. They pretty much wasted the Minkowski character by doing that. As for Desmond, I can't see them offing him ever. His story is too intregal to everything. It's about as big as the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle being resolved. Unless they have him die in Penny's arm in the series finale I can't see him going aywhere.
arg you are right, i havent watched seasons 2 & 3 in about a year so i forgot about jacks dad in the mourge.
I wrote the stuff above right after watching episode 5. I was totally dorked out and ranting without really thinking (common lately actually).
Your theories are solid.. I think daniel will be in a decent amount, doomed or not he seems to be a fan favorite so far who is way way too insightful to just throw away.
Except Walt and Michael being the informants.
oh and Keamy www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Keamy
He seems to be the most prominent character on the freighter other than minkowski.
I'm still convinced it's going to be Daniel's flashback that we learn how Libby ended up in the psych ward with Hurley. I think his little experiments with time travel have caused him some brain issues, but he's taken out and gobbled up by the Widmore Group, who know about his secret experiments and who want to use him to get to the island.
I'm sure Michael and Walt are on the freighter, and I think they're going to add to the splitting of the freighter people - the crew and Michael want to either get to the island or call it quits and head back home, and the scientists and Walt want to get to the island and stay there. The pilot is obviously helping out Desmond and Sayid because he wants to know the truth about the crash, and with Minkowski dead, they're probably heavily outnumbered. But any sort of big break up on the freighter will have to take place after the helicopter goes back and picks up several of the others from the island.
Which leads me to another one of your points: I don't think the time displacement effect is going to affect very many people. Locke, Charlie, Desmond and Eko were the only ones in the hatch when it exploded, and they were the ones most directly affected by the electromagnetic blast. Charlie and Eko are dead and we've seen the effects on Desmond, who has been troubled throughout season 3. Sayid didn't seem to be caused any sort of impairment during the helicopter flight, which leads me to think that everyone else should be ok going through the time-storm-thingy, with the possible exception of Locke - although, except for going temporarily mute, which seemed more of a punishment from Jacob than from the electromagnetic blast, he seemed pretty much unhindered by the blast so he'll probably be ok, too.
Also the point about Miles and Charlotte switching roles, I can totally see this. In fact, that seems to happen as early as this upcoming episode. Miles is as good a candidate for the Man on the Boat as anyone, and with Charlotte going nuts on what looked like Kate in the promo, I'm sure she's going to get paranoid about who is really working for whom. That should be exciting, but again, I'd love to see them do away with the guns and rely on just backstabbing and plotting.
In my gut I still dont want Michael and Walt to be on the freighter, that just seems too easy to me. However, I have no other idea how they would get back to the island, which they will do either this coming episode or next, without being on the freighter. In that interview I linked to above, the producers did have this to say about the two of them:
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Henry Ian Cusick (Desmond): "It's 2004 on the boat. What year is it in Penny's world? What year is it when the Oceanic 6 get home?"
Lindelof: What's fundamentally interesting about all the time-jumping is that we want it to make sense when people watch the show 10 years from now. We don't want it to seem dated. So it's not really about what year it is in the outside world, it's about how many years have elapsed between the time that we're watching on the island and the flash-forwards. That's one of the fun games the audience is playing: "Gee, Aaron looks like he's about 18 months old. What does that mean, and how old was he when they got off the island?"
Cuse: There are some growth issues when you go on or off the island. But I can't say more about that.
Lindelof: You've already said enough.
Evangeline Lilly (Kate): "Did Michael reach the mainland? Go home? Come back to rescue us?"
Cuse: The good news is that Evie will get all of her answers in [the March 20th] episode.
Lindelof: Well, most of them.
Cuse: Those questions form the basis for that episode. Evie should be somewhat happy.
*******************************************************
I agree that Charlotte will prove a thorn for the Losties, and redeeming Miles is possible. If he is not Ben's man on the boat, which I dont think he is, he now has a significant finanical motivation to help the Losties, if nothing else. And Charlotte just seemed too happy/confident when finding that Dharma collar to not be neck deep in this whole mess, somewhow. If Miles is Ben's man, then the whole conversation they had in front of Kate was in some sort of code, which is possible... but if he is Ben's man, his motivations will to dispel the freighter team ASAP, yeah? I suppose now that the Losties are on the freighter he cannot just pretend that theyre not on the island, so this may mean he wants to help them or hurt them... not sure...
This season is definitely rockin' though. The condensation down to 13 episodes instead of 16 makes every episode that much more filled with important stuff, and that decision was made AFTER these 8 episodes were filmed... so, as full of important tidbits as these episode are, imagine... the final five are going to be 8 episodes in 5 hours, so they will be even more jam-packed... which is a delicious proposition...
oh and Keamy www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Keamy
He seems to be the most prominent character on the freighter other than minkowski.
Regarding your last point, Oberon - to me, I'm more interested in a well paced, well written show than I am having them throw all this information at me. I'm pretty content to let things unfold slowly, as long as there is a feeling of unfolding going on. This season has been half fantastic and half blah. Sayid's flashforward started out amazing then went to shit, then picked up at the very end; Kate's entire flashforward was shit until the final reveal, Desmond's episode was amazing but it didn't move the plot along one bit.
So yes, I'm excited to have questions raised, others answered, plot progressed and whatnot, but I don't want it to come as a detriment to the drama of the show, you know? It doesn't matter what happens to the characters if the characters stop being the focus of the story.
They have had some stalls this season but I think they seem on the same track as they were for like the last 5 episodes of season 3. The strong finsih it had really saved it from being such a bomb as the second one. Are they still doing the 16 episodes a piece for the last two seasons anyone know? That would just leave about 38-40 episodes left. As long as they can keep it to around 4-5 Jack/Kate episodes i think they'll do ok. But I also think as it gets closer to the end a lot of their stories will start crossing over which can be great to furthering the characters and story at the same time. I'm about ready for another sun/jin episode or even a sawyer one. I can't even remember the last time they had one for him? Season 2 maybe?
They've stated that they're going to drop three episodes this season (from 16 to 13) and just add those in the next couple of seasons, but they don't know how they're going to divvy them up yet.
I agree that the further things advance the more we'll probably see crisscrossing character stories, which will be interesting, but I wonder how many more flashback we're going to see. There's still a lot of unresolved issues from the past, but who knows how those'll effect future events.
Also, there was a Sawyer episode last season, the one where he was in prison, right? The episode where he killed Locke;'s dad. And the only reason I'm not really looking forward to a Sun/Jin flashforward, even though you know it'll be coming up shortly and even though they're two of my favorite characters, is that the writers always always always make Jin a nice and loveable guy in the present story EXCEPT when its a Sun or Jin-centric episode, then he's always always always an asshole. It's just another one of those predictable things the show does that I wish they'd get over already, just like the Kate/Sawyer/Jack love triangle and the Jack/Locke/Ben power struggle. Somewhere along the line, those two issues should either be resolved completely (or definitively, I guess), or they should be elevated to something else. But as it is, we're left with the same retreaded storylines.
They've stated that they're going to drop three episodes this season (from 16 to 13) and just add those in the next couple of seasons, but they don't know how they're going to divvy them up yet.
I agree that the further things advance the more we'll probably see crisscrossing character stories, which will be interesting, but I wonder how many more flashback we're going to see. There's still a lot of unresolved issues from the past, but who knows how those'll effect future events.
Also, there was a Sawyer episode last season, the one where he was in prison, right? The episode where he killed Locke;'s dad. And the only reason I'm not really looking forward to a Sun/Jin flashforward, even though you know it'll be coming up shortly and even though they're two of my favorite characters, is that the writers always always always make Jin a nice and loveable guy in the present story EXCEPT when its a Sun or Jin-centric episode, then he's always always always an asshole. It's just another one of those predictable things the show does that I wish they'd get over already, just like the Kate/Sawyer/Jack love triangle and the Jack/Locke/Ben power struggle. Somewhere along the line, those two issues should either be resolved completely (or definitively, I guess), or they should be elevated to something else. But as it is, we're left with the same retreaded storylines.
This thread suddenly exploded and I don't feel like reading it right now. Anywho, I'm re-watching all of season one, because I am writing a paper for english where I am comparing the first season of Lost to "Lord of the Flies". It has to be at least 10 pages long so I'm hoping it'll be good. If anyones interested, I'm post it when I am done, so you can read it.
I has a friend write an interesting paper comparing Lost Season 1 (at the point of his essay it was the only one aired in its completion) to Milton's "Paradise Lost." Would love to read your essay, feel free to post it.
I agree that the answers and questions dont matter much if the story is crap, and, to be honest, I didnt mind the sometimes painfully slow pace. I have enjoyed all three seasons pretty much equally, even when other fans and critics got a little jaded. So, while the most recent episode didnt further the plot, while it is somewhat frustrating, at the same time I dont mind, because it is just the modality in which the series has determined to reveal itself, and that is something I can be content with. However, with all that said, I guess what I am more excited about is the fact that they are going to finish their original storyline in this season, even if it is going to be 3 episodes short. This will obviously sacrifice a lot in terms of back stories, because the end of the season will be the departure of the O6 and I am guessing that the flashforwards are necessary to make that meaningful, and as such they will not be cutting flashforwards, only flashbacks. So we are going to lose some backstory. But I do like answers, and I appreciate they are really asking some huge questions and making really, really bold statements, and I am glad that they are answering a good deal of them too. It is no doubt that there will be a plethora of unanswered questions at the end of the season, and it is just a matter of which questions will be the ones left unanswered, and I am glad they are not goign to make the unanswered list longer due to the shortened season.
While I loathe Jack and Kate flashbacks and flashforwards, I dont mind the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle all too much. To some extent it is almost like an inside joke at this point, and the producers joke about it in. It is getting stale, true, but as I dont see it as critical to the plot (and maybe I am wrong) it doesnt bother me so much. I guess it only bothers me in as much as they could be telling more interesting stories, which I guess is your point. However I am quite captivated with the Locke/Jack/Ben trifecta. I dont expect that to end at anytime soon. Even fi one fo them dies, the other two will still go at it. Obviously Ben is in control in the future. And Locke may still be on the island, he may be dead, we dont know. So I dont mind them keeping that going for another season. While it has seemed somewhat "scripted," or predictable, at points, I feel like there is still a lot left there, and the writers just need to develop it.
One of the things I did like about this last one was the way they told it. It's basically a flashback episode but we get the story in a way we've never seen before and it raises all these questions just in how they told the story. It would be interesting if they have desmond flash forward the same way to tell a flash forward episode in the same or even a different way.
One theory and one thing that bugs me.
Theory addition- I dont think Jack wants to see Aaron because he realizes that he is 'Uncle Jack' and its just another bad legacy left by his father.
Thing that bugs me- Lets assume Claire died because Aaron is with Kate. This would then mean that Desmonds 'visions' are wrong and that Charlie died for nothing.