I dont listen to lyrics.

well thats silly. Then any poetry, artwork, stories, etc.. that express a politcal opinion would be worth shit too. If you want to express your opinion through your art, then that seems like a good way to do it to me. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.

ani difranco is one of my favorite artists, and yet musically, she sucks. it's her lyrics i enjoy the most. so i guess it works both ways.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]well thats silly. Then any poetry, artwork, stories, etc.. that express a politcal opinion would be worth shit too. If you want to express your opinion through your art, then that seems like a good way to do it to me. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. [/B][/QUOTE]

The point is it doesnt serve a purpose its a fucking bumper sticker.

what purpose should it serve?

hear, hear.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]what purpose should it serve? [/B][/QUOTE]

As far as songs go, they should be enjoyable which politics arent to me. I pretty much hate politics, i wish i didnt have to pay attention to them. But ignoring them is like ignoring an infection.

As far as politics go, the basic point behind politics is to get as many supporters of an issue to try change a certain law or whatever. The person pushing an issue should be trying to give information that might change your mind on that issue. Which i said a song just is not a realistic way to do that. It takes a good amount of reading on an issue and debate to form a valid opinion.

A poltical song is just a label of that persons belief, now if you dont mind that. Then we just differ on opinion.

It's a very, very small thing, but songs, art, and all the little things that have a "message" in it...even as small as a bumper sticker...just lets people know that there's another side out there. Whether it convinces people or not, at least you know someone is maybe thinking differently than you (or maybe the same).

Which has a bigger effect, one protestor against the current war, or hundreds of thousands. They're not all giving speeches, but their presence makes their side known.

One example is Corporate Avenger, which is great to listen to if you're mad But anyway. I listened to "Christians Murdered Indians" and started looking into the whole thing for actual facts and all of that. I didn't learn anything from the song, but it interested me into looking and learning more about something.

Don't you think political songs may make the fans of the band look into something the band believs in to learn more and THEN do something about it? The idea is more likely going to get to people our age/"demographic" through music than by watching CSPAN or something.

And music being entertaining is a different thing.

There are multiple sides to an issue, NAH I SAY!

No offense but if a person needs a song to let them know there another side or an certain issue out there then there not really educated on the issues. In other words there an idiot.

Yeah im an asshole, i know.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PsychoKeety [/i]
[B]Don't you think political songs may make the fans of the band look into something the band believs in to learn more and THEN do something about it? The idea is more likely going to get to people our age/"demographic" through music than by watching CSPAN or something.

And music being entertaining is a different thing. [/B][/QUOTE]

HEY LEAVE CSPAN ALONE! Its just mean picking on poor defenseless cspan like that.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by R0BB23 [/i]
[B] It takes a good amount of reading on an issue and debate to form a valid opinion.

[/B][/QUOTE]

How do you know they haven't. Two examples:
1. Bad Religion- the lead singer is almost finished getting his PhD in something (i don't remember what). The point is, he is clearly educated enough to have legitimate opinions.
2. RATM/Audioslave- Tom Morello (guitarist) graduated from Harvard with honors (with a degree in social studies i think). So he also has qualifications to have educated opinions.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]How do you know they haven't. Two examples:
1. Bad Religion- the lead singer is almost finished getting his PhD in something (i don't remember what). The point is, he is clearly educated enough to have legitimate opinions.
2. RATM/Audioslave- Tom Morello (guitarist) graduated from Harvard with honors (with a degree in social studies i think). So he also has qualifications to have educated opinions. [/B][/QUOTE]

I meant the listener not the singer.

since when does *anyone* get to decide the legitimacy of someone else's opinion?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B]since when does *anyone* get to decide the legitimacy of someone else's opinion? [/B][/QUOTE]

If they got their opinion from a 3:30 minute song, common sense does

Unless they figured out how to do in a few minutes what hours of debating cant even do.

According to Plato, Descartes, and many other philosophers, an opinion is more forceful if it can be backed up. Legitimacy was probably the wrong word, but hey, I don't have my thesaurus handy.

"I meant the listener not the singer."

Political songs allow the listener to question things. It is true that you can't get all the facts from listening to a song, but it can inspire you to pick up and newspaper or do some research.

[IMG]http://www.ihateaol.co.uk/misc/funnypics/bsmeter.gif[/IMG]

as an opinionated person yourself, DoNotTrip, it seems fairly hypocritical of you to deny *anyone* the right to their own opinion, regardless of where it comes from. even if it's a 3:30 song. people shouldn't have to meet *your* standards to disagree with you. duh.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]Political songs allow the listener to question things. It is true that you can't get all the facts from listening to a song, but it can inspire you to pick up and newspaper or do some research. [/B][/QUOTE]

Lets say your right on this, how large a section of rock fans need inspiring? Because it seems to me that a large (maybe even the majority) is politically based.

And what about ppl like me, probably a good amount of other ppl here who dont need inspiring?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B][IMG]http://www.ihateaol.co.uk/misc/funnypics/bsmeter.gif[/IMG]

as an opinionated person yourself, DoNotTrip, it seems fairly hypocritical of you to deny *anyone* the right to their own opinion, regardless of where it comes from. even if it's a 3:30 song. people shouldn't have to meet *your* standards to disagree with you. duh. [/B][/QUOTE]

I lost you a little bit here, so whaa?

I have never once or ever will deny anyone of their opinion. However, education and research does make your opinion closer to the truth (paraphrased from Plato).

Extreme example:
There is a man who takes considerable amounts of drugs and drinks frequently. He never graduated high school and he is somehow drawn into a debate with a man that has a PhD in philosophy or something. They disagree on a subject. You are in the audience and know absolutely no background information on what they are arguing about. You do, however, know their credentials. Who are you more likely to side with based on the strength of their argument.

P.S. I am not saying that someone isn't ENTITLED to their opinion. I am merely saying that when you are more informed and educated about a specific matter, you can make a more forceful argument.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by R0BB23 [/i]
[B]Lets say your right on this, how large a section of rock fans need inspiring? Because it seems to me that a large (maybe even the majority) is politically based.

And what about ppl like me, probably a good amount of other ppl here who dont need inspiring? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well the first solution is, if you don't like it, don't listen to it. More power to you if you don't need inspiring.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]Well the first solution is, if you don't like it, don't listen to it. More power to you if you don't need inspiring. [/B][/QUOTE]

I guess what i was trying to say is wheres the bands for those who dont need inspiring?

Not many bands for us:(

I think ill go cry now.

how can an [B][I]opinion[/I][/B] be correct or incorrect?
opinions vary on how different people percieve different ideas.

Ok ill rephrase, anyone who gets there opinion from a three and a half minute song has a [I]flimsy[/I] opinion.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by R0BB23 [/i]
[B]I guess what i was trying to say is wheres the bands for those who dont need inspiring?

Not many bands for us:(

I think ill go cry now. [/B][/QUOTE]

There are plenty of bands. You just have to look for them. I agree, that if you are into metal/punk/hardcore, you are not going to find much party music, but thats just the nature of the music.

ooh, DoNotTrip, you quoted Plato, I give up.

I was taking out the big guns when I brought in Plato.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]There are plenty of bands. You just have to look for them. I agree, that if you are into metal/punk/hardcore, you are not going to find much party music, but thats just the nature of the music. [/B][/QUOTE]

Trust me i look, and i am picky so that does make it a little harder.

And im not exactly looking for party music just anything not politics based. Like pink floyd (one of my fav classic rock bands), some of their best songs were about there former lead singers mental illness.

And yeah i pretty much only listen to rock, and mostly stuff on the harder side.

Tool is pretty apolitical and there are definitely some others that i can't think of right now.

[IMG]http://www.ihateaol.co.uk/misc/funnypics/Oh.the.drama_.jpg[/IMG]

i'm losing my ability to take anything seriously right now. i think all my indignation, opinionation, and will to argue shit has burned out.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]Tool is pretty apolitical and there are definitely some others that i can't think of right now. [/B][/QUOTE]

I dont really care for tool, told you i was a picky motherfucker

i'm not a big fan of tool either

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by R0BB23 [/i]
[B]I dont really care for tool, told you i was a picky motherfucker [/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B]i'm not a big fan of tool either[/B][/QUOTE]

Why?

cause we're not?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by insomnomaniac [/i]
[B]cause we're not? [/B][/QUOTE]

No, why don't you like Tool?

Geez, insomnomaniac, that's a hella lot of posts. I haven't been here in a while.

cause i don't.

There has to be a reason.

i personally don't feel that the lead singer in tool is all that great. that and their songs tend to be too long or too random for my tastes.

i happen to like tool alot

BIOHAZARD!!!

Tool is apolitical, but you can't say that their music doesn't try to convey a deeper meaning than, "love hurts, sunsets are nice, pie tastes good," and such. To be a complete fanboy, the name Tool is indicative of their goals, and the original name of the band was to be Toolshed (thus if anyone remembers, the previous website was toolshed.down.net). When you get down to it, Tool is a very cerebral band (not always, of course), and I'd say their message is aimed a little higher than politics.

Personally, I look at any music without a message of some sort, or something original to say, as commercial filler. If you're not just trying to sell and you want to be a "pure" musician, why not just do instrumentals?

I like stuff that goes above politics, too. If you're going to get political, I'd kind of prefer if it is left kind of vague. I don't know, just something about music that starts specfically talking about this or that, I don't know... Annoys me, I guess. I like it to be left a little vague and open-ended so you can make what you want of it.

Lyrics are pretty important to me, but I can appreciate a band and ignore crappy lyrics if the music is good enough.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by UnbelieverDjak [/i]
[B]Tool is apolitical, but you can't say that their music doesn't try to convey a deeper meaning than, "love hurts, sunsets are nice, pie tastes good," and such. To be a complete fanboy, the name Tool is indicative of their goals, and the original name of the band was to be Toolshed (thus if anyone remembers, the previous website was toolshed.down.net). When you get down to it, Tool is a very cerebral band (not always, of course), and I'd say their message is aimed a little higher than politics.

Personally, I look at any music without a message of some sort, or something original to say, as commercial filler. If you're not just trying to sell and you want to be a "pure" musician, why not just do instrumentals? [/B][/QUOTE]

Amen.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]I like stuff that goes above politics, too. If you're going to get political, I'd kind of prefer if it is left kind of vague. I don't know, just something about music that starts specfically talking about this or that, I don't know... Annoys me, I guess. I like it to be left a little vague and open-ended so you can make what you want of it.

Lyrics are pretty important to me, but I can appreciate a band and ignore crappy lyrics if the music is good enough.[/B][/QUOTE]

You know, Tool's lyrics are ones where you make whatever you want of it. It could have many different views - none of them are correct or wrong. They're yours.

I just cannot get into a band if the music is good and the lyrics are bad. If the band has a lot of instrumental songs (Tool, Jimi Hendrix Experience, etc.) I enjoy them. But bands that have direct lyrics, you know what the hell they're talking about they first time you hear it, I hate.

i can appreciate bands that have a message, but sometimes that actually interferes with listening to the song. sometime's it's more like they're using music to send out a message, rather than just send out the freakin' message. yes lyrics add to the song, but there's always a point where it starts subtracting from the song as a whole, or the cd as a whole.

"You know, Tool's lyrics are ones where you make whatever you want of it. It could have many different views - none of them are correct or wrong. They're yours."

Which is one of the reaons I like them... *shrug*

Quinessential party band: Fishbone. VERY political guys.

And Tool is full of shit. Nu-metal in kooky time sigs doesn't make you a good band. Granted, Carey is a fantastic drummer, but apart from that, they're very mediocre.

Neurosis is much better.

[QUOTE]There has to be a reason.
[/QUOTE]

does there?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by R0BB23 [/i]
[B] Like pink floyd (one of my fav classic rock bands), some of their best songs were about there former lead singers mental illness.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Robb, very strange that you give Pink Floyd as an example because before I reached this post, I was planning on posting that Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is probably the most politically mind lyricist I listen to. Yes, many of their songs are about Syd Barrett's mental condition, but so many others are about war and government. Roger Waters' solo album Amused to Death is very political and I think one of the greatest albums relating to our current state. Although, Mr. Waters does not try to state something in a 3:30 song, his albums are very theme oriented and he spends well over an hour making his point. You still may not feel this is enough time, but I find it to be way more effective than doing a three minute song on one issue than moving on to the next. Instead, each of his songs are different examples relating to the overall point the entire album is making. I myself prefer to listen to albums that work as a whole than ones that are just a grouping of individual songs.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by D._Prest [/i]
[B]Robb, very strange that you give Pink Floyd as an example because before I reached this post, I was planning on posting that Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is probably the most politically mind lyricist I listen to. Yes, many of their songs are about Syd Barrett's mental condition, but so many others are about war and government. Roger Waters' solo album Amused to Death is very political and I think one of the greatest albums relating to our current state. Although, Mr. Waters does not try to state something in a 3:30 song, his albums are very theme oriented and he spends well over an hour making his point. You still may not feel this is enough time, but I find it to be way more effective than doing a three minute song on one issue than moving on to the next. Instead, each of his songs are different examples relating to the overall point the entire album is making. I myself prefer to listen to albums that work as a whole than ones that are just a grouping of individual songs. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, like i said i block out lyrics of those songs in my mind. Anyways Pink floyd was great because of the music not the lyrics. Pretty much all bands are. Musically i didnt like floyd to much when they had sid or now in there later years. I also didnt care for waters solo, though it was better then the later years of floyd.

it's a shame you'd "block" pink floyd's lyrics. because even if you wanted to get your wisdom somewhere other than a 3:30 song, pink floyd has earned theirs the hard way. the song "nobody home" from the wall is sheer poetry:

I got a little black book with my poems in.
Got a bag, got a toothbrush and a comb.
When I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone.
I got elastic bands keeping my shoes on.
Got those swollen hands blues.
Got thirteen channels of shit on the TV to choose from.
I got electric light,
And I got second sight.
Got amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know,
When I try to get through,
On the telephone to you,
There'll be nobody home.

I got the obligatory Hendrix perm,
And the inevitable pinhole burns,
All down the front of my favorite satin shirt.
I got nicotine stains on my fingers.
I got a silver spoon on a chain.
Got a grand piano to prop up my mortal remains.
I've got wild, staring eyes.
And I got a strong urge to fly,
But I got nowhere to fly to (-- fly to... fly to... fly to...).
Ooooo Babe,
When I pick up the phone,
There's still nobody home.

I got a pair of Gohill boots,
And I got fading roots.

WAHT ABUOT TEH FUNNEY LIRIKS!!!11

I only block lyrics of the songs i dont care for out.