The Samaritan - Book Club October '11

Like to second this as a great read. Did an interview with Fred and he's a top guy as well as a great writer. Will deffo chip in with this one.

Oh, post up the link Jay.

Venturini is just an all-around cool guy. We've been going back and forth on doing some kind of event in St. Louis eventually, so hopefully that ends up happening.

Here's a video of him doing a reading from The Samaritan that I found:

Looking forward to this one.

Fred was a special guest at Solarcide a few weeks back - gave me an awesome interview, including the lowdown on how a short story he submitted to The Cult ended up becoming one of the interesting books released this year.

Nice chap.

You can read more hereA New Breed Of Hero.

Definitely gonna look at picking this up next time I'm buying books

I'm interested in that video Brandon posted - damn work's internet and it's over zealous filtering.

Shall have to wait.

I like the passage from this book that was picked out for the little prologue. The part about how without the lines in the sand there's just sand, and about the damage needing to be permanent for us to be able to grow. I'm quoting without the book at hand, but I do remember that first time I read that I thought it was very poetic, if maybe a little soapboxy. When I got to the actual passage near the end of the story it hit a lot harder though, what a lovely little piece of writing.

Now that my arm has been twisted by Pete , here's my interview:

http://jayslaytonjoslin.com/2011/07/15/fred-venturini-author-of-the-sama...

Can't wait for Fred to get here.

I just finished reading the book yesterday and while I did enjoy it, I thought it was only good, not quite great.

I really liked the story although (it took a while to get going) but the writing was only okay and the characters weren't all that likable.

I would read more by Venturini in the future though. I think he's got potential.

One major gripe I have with the book is the number of mistakes. At least in my copy - the UK paperback version. Words doubling up, words missing all together, sentences jumbled that made no sense. It needed a good proof read. There were probably between ten and twenty such errors throughout the book and it got really frustrating after a while. It's a real pain in the ass when things are flowing along nicely and all of a sudden, you have to stop and re-read something three or four times to make sure you're reading it right.

It's a pity that that's the thing that stands out the most for me but it was really annoying and it made the experience a lot less enjoyable.

im debating picking this up on my reader, because i want to see if google books are really compatable with my shitty ass kobo, and its only four bucks.

should i?

One major gripe I have with the book is the number of mistakes. At least in my copy - the UK paperback version. Words doubling up, words missing all together, sentences jumbled that made no sense. It needed a good proof read. There were probably between ten and twenty such errors throughout the book and it got really frustrating after a while. It's a real pain in the ass when things are flowing along nicely and all of a sudden, you have to stop and re-read something three or four times to make sure you're reading it right.

Hmm. Now I don't remember this being the case. Admittedly it's been a couple months since I read it but this is something that has irked me about other smaller press releases and I don't remember it being a problem with this book.

im debating picking this up on my reader, because i want to see if google books are really compatable with my shitty ass kobo, and its only four bucks.

should i?

Yes. A bargain at that price.

Okay, I'm here. Going to try and be as active as possible without being outwardly intrusive. Working on getting some stuff to give away in the thread as well.

Working through the thread, a few things:

1) Errors - No authors want them, of course. I don't know if it's an isolated problem with a UK paperback version, but one of my eagle eyed friends only spotted about two things during his read. Overall I was pretty happy with the copy edit. I'll look into it though, I know it can really crimp the reading experience.

2) Likeability - I've had this writing discussion before, but often, a criticism of a work is "I didn't like the characters, they just weren't likable." I don't think characters have to be likeable at all, just interesting. And often it's the things that aren't likeable that make them interesting. This is just me as a reader and an author and I've had some fun discussions on the subject. I was scared shitless that this, and the POV choice, would be a major gripe among readers.

3) Prologue passage - I'm getting a lot of positive feedback about that. The most positive being, "Where did you get that?" or "Where is it from?" like it's some philosophical poem or statement that's already out there. That's always a cool compliment. I thought it was a bit sappy myself and was back and forth about cutting it before a trusted reader made a good case and I agreed and kept it in. I'm glad I did.

By far, the thing that worried me the most was choosing first person as the POV. I know that goes over pretty well in the world-o-Chuck, but in other circles, it can be a major gripe. I have gotten, "Great work man, but I would have loved to see this in close third person." I feel I would have sacrificed intimacy and voice that really made it a passion project for me. To me, first person was the only way to go on this one.

Yeah, I don't remember there being a lot of errors in the book. Like you said, it was maybe a couple, and I know enough about small press publishing to know that these places don't usually get top tier editorial services.

the answer is YES, you can read a google book on anything which supports the EPUB format, but, at least on my reader (kobo) the paginations dont match, and the book isnt broken into chapters of however long, so you can see how long your next chunk is in the font/size you're using.

With regards to point of view, first person probably was the way to go for this story. If I had to choose a favorite point of view, it probably would be third person but not by a long way and it really does depend on the story and characters. What would be really interesting would be to see the same story written in both first and third person and to be able to compare the two.

in terms of this book, the first person feels detached and distant to me, like you could replace I with the narrator's name, and see the same feeling of withdrawn fondness. does that make sense?

For me, the POV definitely worked and left me with a special experience. Yeah I"m glad this Book Club selection is happening. This is the best book I've read this year so far. I was moved by the friendship between Dale and Mack and came to care for them on a deeper level than I usually do with fictional characters. I seriously forgot about the "supernatural" element of the story -on more than a few occasions while reading. These characters felt real to me, they were complex, honest and definitely likable. Interesting's one way to put it but I felt something for these guys.

I'm curious to know how everyone feels about that beginning where the friendship is developed during their school days? I know for me, it helped to make the book. And as far as the supernatural element -I feel that it never once strayed into the area of being ridiculous -despite as far as it went. That element falls in line with the story successfully for me and feels completely organic, somehow, and so all the more interesting.

With the friendship being developed at school, I guess it was necessary for the friendship to be so string for Mack to care so much about Dale later in the book. The friendships that you develop at an early age are always a bit more special than those you develop once you've grown up. I do think it made the start a bit slow though.

I can't say I agree about the start being slow, but something else you said I agree with completely -here: "The important aspect of the story for me was Dale struggling with his life, wanting to do something positive but unable to achieve that goal."

Right on. Couldn't have said it better -Dale as a character, his desires, his struggles and his bond with Mack took front and center for me in a way where the supernatural element only served to support a greater story or what the story was really about, actually -which is hard to pull up when writers incorporate a supernatural element, so that was impressive to me. It felt seamless -never distracting from the bigger picture.

It makes the story complete. What it did for me was make the characters feel very real. The rest of the book then benefitted as I had this intimacy with the main players. Made the parts that were painful for Dale more so, as well as making me root for him more.

However I also agree with Lizardking about it being a little slow at the start. It is a pretty long build up. Well written but a bit slow. I think the payoff is worth it though. Once I reached the scene at the party where it all kicked off, any reservations were thrown out the window and from that point on I was totally hooked. Maybe I was starting to think "come on then, get on with it please," then pow.

One thing that didn't help is that I find baseball to be a really boring sport. Even that didn't pull me out of the story too much though. Certainly not enough to spoil anything.

This would be a kickass movie too. I read in an interview Fred was speaking about interest in the rights to it. Any progression, Fred?

So hey I know it's been a few days for this thread -there was something else I thought of but held off because I saw that question from Valmont.

Dale's pursuit of Rae (to save her) -despite his best intentions, did you ever start feeling like it was creepy or find yourself sharing the view that Dale should fu#$k off and mind his own business?

Not saying I did -just wondering if the story had that effect on anyone's reading experience because I know for me, I wanted to see Rae's husband go down, but there comes a point when abused women don't want to be helped, what do you do?

It's very interesting because sadly, often that's the case where the abused spouse will outright refuse help and stay in the marriage, even as it gets worse, and how do you go about helping? Makes you think a lot.

Then again, Dale had his own issues from not being able to save the sister, and so Rae also had some points about her resentments toward him. It was a very complex situation which was really great and gripping. Didn't know if anyone had any thoughts around all that after reading?

I had a pretty cool series of conversations with Neil Edelstein, the producer of "The Ring" and a few other cool horror movies. He'd just happened upon the book by chance and was really supportive. I sort of got a master's class in how movies get made, which is to say, it's really f'ing hard unless it's a comic book tentpole film. He called it a "quirky drama" and said he'd pass it along to folks looking for that kind of content. Also, he looked over all of my projects and ideas and helped me prioritize which ones he thought had the best chance at commercial success as a film. You certainly can't beat that, and it makes for a fun story at bars. Indonesian rights just sold, but the movie stuff is just kind of hanging out there.

This is an interesting question. I'll hold off before I get into the discussion on this one, see if anyone else wants to play tag with this one.

Also, I'm going to hold a very official, very legit lottery of folks commenting on this thread and someone is going to win their choice of a Samaritan water bottle (they're nice) or a tee shirt (because you want people to wonder what the fuck is wrong with you in public; but Stephen Graham Jones seemed to like his). Just my way of bribing someone into liking me, and saying thanks for taking the time to talk about my work.

A Samaritan Water Bottle -now there's something that sounds cool and worth having. Seriously, I run a lot of treadmill.

Like Lizard said, Dale frustrated me at first, and then he just pissed me off. the adolescent self-loathing thing i dealt with for a while, but the book spans an awful long time, and he never really comes around. Im not sure this is intended, but I never found him likable at all, and secretly i wanted Rae to turn up dead in a ditch on the news, and the story interrupt his precious reruns of matlock

Dale's pursuit of Rae (to save her) -despite his best intentions, did you ever start feeling like it was creepy or find yourself sharing the view that Dale should fu#$k off and mind his own business?

Not saying I did -just wondering if the story had that effect on anyone's reading experience because I know for me, I wanted to see Rae's husband go down, but there comes a point when abused women don't want to be helped, what do you do?

It's very interesting because sadly, often that's the case where the abused spouse will outright refuse help and stay in the marriage, even as it gets worse, and how do you go about helping? Makes you think a lot.

@ Nathan - these are good points you raise, buddy.

For me, no, I didn't think Dale should mind his own business. I was behind him in his unrelenting agenda. Domestic abuse (note not necessarily violent abuse, it comes in all shapes and sizes) is a huge issue for me. I've known too many people suffer at the hands of cunts (pardon my French) and refuse help for too long. It makes me angry sometimes, and more than a little sad.

Which is part of the reason this book spoke to me so loudly. It's an issue that resonates. I felt for Dale, because all too often the person that tries to help in a situation like this is the one that gets lashed out at and ends up being made to feel a bad guy. (Sad but true. Trust me)

All this made for a solid core to the story that kept me hooked and kept me on Dale's side.

That's interesting, Martin -I'm glad you spoke up about your personal connection. That's what's great about this book -there are many aspects of the relationships and situations in this story that I feel a Large number of readers can relate to for different reasons. The one you identified, for example -you're so right with regards to the person trying to help getting lashed out at.

What about the tables being turned? Mack trying to help Dale? He seemed to approach it in a different way, giving him space but checking in here and there. Until the end of course -but I didn't see Mack's actions at the end as betrayal as much as a mistake with good intentions, and then Mack realizing his mistake and acting Quickly to rectify it.

So I just finished this book like 2 minutes ago.

I have to say that I really enjoyed it. I just wish I wasn't so busy (and backed up reading wise) because I wanted to finish this much sooner.

This premise could have taken this story in so many different directions. I immediately thought of the cheerleader in Heroes. The first thing she does is jump of that thing at the construction site. He really never does anything that dramatic. He also becomes a hero in a totally different way.

I like going into books without reading much about them. So I knew the premise. But I was thrown when he decides to start donating organs. It just seems like such a real world thing to do. I mean, we like to think we would fight crime. But you could save so many more people doing it his way.

I've seen some people say that the characters weren't likable and that was why the book wasn't good. First off, I agree with Fred, you don't have to like characters for a story to be good or not. And really, I liked Dale a lot. I sympathized with him. He was fucked up. That doesn't make him unlikable. Mack, on the other hand, was an asshole. But it gave their friendship some dimension.

At first I read this paragraph as if you were talking about his "ability." But I want to answer it that way too. I think that giving him a weakness - his heart - he makes the ability to heal believable. It never crossed a line for me where I said - oh come on! I never questioned it.

I didn't think his pursuit of Rae was as creepy as his calling the first person he donated to - I think her name was Holly. That was weird, and it was obvious she was super uncomfortable.

As for Rae - I think it was justified. He was in love with her twin sister, who he watched get brutally raped and then killed. It was at that same moment he learns that it's very hard to kill him. I'm sure he wanted to die at that moment. His best friend's dreams go down the toilet. And he, Dale, comes out of the situation a super hero.

This made me laugh out loud. I have to admit, the effect was sort of intended.

Thanks for this post; it's an issue that I have a soft spot for myself.

Just in general, I would like to thank everyone for checking out the book and taking a few moments to contribute to the thread this month. I had a lot of fun following along. I apologize for not being around the last week plus . . . not to bum anyone out but I had a family / death type thing to attend to and I'm just catching up with a ton of work and other responsibilities.

I'd like to give some shit away but I haven't gotten my damn water bottle yet. I'll do a completely random and unscientific drawing of folks who commented. And I'm going to try to get more than one to send to Nathan, just because he mentioned a water bottle would be cool. And also because he's such a champion of the book / enjoyed it so much. Flattery works I guess.

Thanks again and I'm sure our paths shall cross again someday soon.

Hey Fred - we usually leave the discussions "stickied" at the top of the page for 2 months. This thread will stay right here until December.

And even after that it gets linked to our "list of discussions" so people can find it easily and maybe add something months/years down the line.

Thanks for participating.

Fred, thanks for your time this past month -I'm sorry to hear about the family death and I hope everything's okay despite. We're all looking forward to more great work from you. Take care and thanks again.