Out of Touch - Book Club February '11

Fired up. Folks, pick up a copy of "Out of Touch" as soon as possible so we can hit the ground running on Feb 1st.

Cheers
M

Not sure how this book club thing is supposed to work, so I'll just go for it. Out of touch reads incredibly well. One minute you're on page one and the next thing you know you're halfway through the book and missed a major appointment. However, one thing that did kind of nag at me in the beginning was how recycled some of the themes were. Strange woman who appear randomly in your life, self help groups, self mutilation through fighting, civilian terrorism, just to name a few. It was all starting to taste a lot like Chuck himself, but I got over it and even thought all of that was funny when he started directly referencing the books he sounded like. Two things I thought made this book special and worth picking up another by this author, were the lessons and the really unique way he developed Aidin. Too many books out there are just fun reads, but this one gives you incites and forces you to evaluate yourself alongside Aiden. Hell, if it wasn't for the Goth girl who punched holes in her clit to get off, I'd say this would make a great coming of age story for high schoolers to read (in some backwards becoming of anything way).

I read this novel over the space of 3/4 days, and believe that made me enjoy it more. After the first 50 pages of Aiden clubbing, I put the book down and went out that night. Envious of the people in the VIP section with the bottle service. Also the next morning, well let's just say it would have been nice to feel "the big numb". I agree that Aiden developed beautifully. Also with that initially I found it very Palahniuky, but hey I'm sure my writing is too, and got past it and saw what a fantastic original piece of writing it is.

One of my favourite things about this novel is how Tietz used a chorus to perfection. Just the right amount, not too much nor to little. My highlight being in a chapter when the two got combined:

"Can you see yet?
Everybody is two different people."

For me that was sheer fantastic writing, will post a lot more about this fantastic book later.

Hey guys,

Welcome to the Brandon Tietz, "Out of Touch" book club discussion. Thanks Oniaki and Valmont for getting things started already.

In terms of how this will work (Oniaki was wondering)...feel free to create your own comment or reply to previous comments.

Obviously, if something you're posing includes a spoiler, please inform us of that. Otherwise, get your hands on this book and start chatting it up on here.

I'll stop by every day or so to chime in and raise questions if necessary.

1st question/food for thought - Is Aidin a sympathetic character? Why or why not?

At the beginning of the novel I wouldn't say Aidin was sympathetic at all. He was purposely hurtful, and pretty much horrible to people unless they gave him sex or coke or whatever.

I wouldn't argue that he turns sympathetic either, perhaps just move understanding and humane. The way he has sex not just for his enjoyment but for the other person, and helps complete their list. I wouldn't say he feels empathy for people but a less desire to be such an arrogant yuppie, as shown with his treatment to the driver who recognises this change.

Aidin really goes through a profound change. I mean that's pretty much one of the reasons to tell this story. In the beginning I absolutely hated him (even though I was mildly fascinated by him) and by the end - I was flat out rooting for him. I felt the disappointment when he would catch a minor set-back. That change is what made me sympathize with him so much. If he was presented in the beginning as perfect - it wouldn't have had so much of an affect on me.

Yeah, that's basically what makes the novel. The Pay-off of Aiden's change in character.

I still haven't read the new edition. I don't have any cash to hook it up. There's so many books piling up in my damn basket.

I liked the "can you see yet" quote too. It's one of those lines which really sticks out to you. I think every one who has ever had an injury or something which set them back has heard some variation of that echoing out of the mouths of the people they know.
I also agree with PGoutis01 about how Aidin was presented in the beggining. If brandon had started off with the short story about Adin as a child I would have sympathized with him too soon. I like how the reader is set up to hate him at first, because it's more realistic to actually getting to know somebody.

I really enjoyed Aidin's rise of using his numbness to his advantage, almost like a superhero learning his powers at the beginning of each film. And also the twist at the end didn't drag on. It was more about the journey than the destination.

Hey guys,

Back from DC after reading and hanging with BT. Great job on the posts.

Some more food for thought...

What do you think of the list? Is it effective? If so, why? If not, why not?

What else, if anything, could the list signify?

M

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not sympathetic to Aiden at all. I think he is a shithead that gets forced into a situation that may be the only way to stop him from destroying himself.I'm not even sure a person like him deserves to have people care enough about him to Di what his parents did for him. In the end he is given a choice. He chooses his life. Sure he needs structure and goals to survive, but he could get that in a lot of places.

The list is.... interesting. It's something that anyone with an addictive personality could be consumed by. The list is his whole life, it is everything he knows and cares about. He's given a second chance at life and he is still oblivious to the people around him. Another reason why I don't find him sympathetic.

I think the list was as good for the reader as it was for Aidin. It was almost suspenseful with the mysterious meetings, and really gave Aidin a detailed life plan so he wasn't gorging himself to death in resteraunts. As a concept I think its a fantastic idea, and when I practice Psychiatry I might well use it. I think we all have met people who while nice, in your head your just screaming "oh my god your so boring".

I think not feeling sympathetic for Aidin is interesting. For me it was rooting for the bad guy to turn good, for change to happen in his life and the asshole turning nice. I was a bit dissapointed he didn't have a life for himself at the end, and his obsession took over. However, I think it worked better for the novel, or else it has risk in turning into one of the Bourne books.

I think the list represents the natural steps a child would go through. Aidin didn't start out as a fully developed person because he never had a childhood. Its like when they take autistic kids and try to simulate the womb and birthing experience, hoping that it will trigger them to develope normally. I loved the list because as he crossed items out it was like watching him develope from a little kid who plays on an etch-a-sketch to a teenager who's going on his first couple of dates.
Dr. Paradies artificially gave him his childhood back. Also, a fun thing that I noticed is that Adin developes a nostalgia complex. The more enlightened to the world he becomes, the more he wishes to revert back to those first innocent experiences(list items), but he can't because he already has the knowledge of how things are. I have suburban friends who expereince the same thing.
Besides, arent we all just working off a list? Sure, ours arent written down so plainly, but every one knows the steps they are supposed to take. Go to school, get a job (preferably a good one), get married, spit out kids...ect
Show me an american teenager and I'll tell you when they'll have sex, what kind of person it will be with, what they are wearing and their dreams for the next six years.

Thats an interesting idea. Do you think Aidin could have lived a content life without the list?

Not unless he was given some other goal to work toward, which in essence would be another type of list. Until he got the list he was just spinning his wheels, trying to destroy himself. I think that would have continued until he managed to kill himself. Or it could have gone in a different direction where someone with darker motives discovered his gift and used him for their own means.

I think Aidin would have lived a shit life - full of sex and drugs, but nothing real - if he didn't have the lists handed to him. He had no direction, and no need for direction. He had everything he needed, so no ambition to try something different. His life would have been a downward spiral until he found something that would take the lists spot or somebody gave him an objective or the lists.

You're leaving out a pretty major thing. The whole being injected with a super human drug business. If that hadn't happened he wouldn't have looked twice at the list because he would still have been in a drunken doped up stupor. Once having all that lovely shit in his system didn't get him off anymore he needed some other way to occupy his time.

If he had been given the drug and not the list his life wouldn't have been full of sex and drugs because sex and drugs didn't do anything for him anymore.

Oops! I read the book so long ago - I forgot about the "drug" lol.

But still - my opinion stands. The lists really gave him the guidance and direction that he never had in his life before. If he didn't get the lists - he probably would have been doing something else stupid and empty for the rest of his life... like cutting himself and getting in fights.

Shit! Now I'm going to have to reread it because things are getting foggy on me. I mean - I read it way back before I did the interview with Brandon. lol

Oh and Melody - that previous post was meant to agree with your post before it. (Post #15)

I'm sure you could reread it and freshen up on the details fairly quickly. Its one of those books that I think I will remember certain parts pretty vividly for a long time.

Yeah - I have a digital copy of it too. I'm going to put it on my nook when I get home.

Also, At the end of the novel I had a feeling that Aidin was part of a sinister organisation, rather than researching cures for good. Do you think he would end up helping the world, or fuelling an Umbrella-esque evil corporation?

definitely the latter.

I feel like Brandon set it up for us to see that as humans we are majorly flawed and that our attempts at controling and making things better only lead to corruption. The agency behind Aidin probably didn't set out for him to become an international terrorist and eventually bring on World War three, but then again I'm sure Aidin never set out to become that person iether. His "loosing touch" with reality speaks to our loosing touch. Just like with Aidin, through excess in our own lives we loose touch with our humanity. Whether there was good or bad intention doesn't matter, because there were plenty of warning signs on the way that we just ignore.

I just put this on my Kindle last night. I look forward to getting caught up.

Aw shit! I've never seen Kirk participate in a Book Club discussion! I'm stoked Kirk! Enjoy the book.

And that was a lot of exclamation points!

Yeah, I'm normally not timely enough to read stuff. But this happened right as I was finishing up A Game of Thrones, so something a little less lengthy seemed perfect.

really? as soon as I finished that I read the next three.

I'll be joining in on the discussion soon as well.

Looking forward to some new opinions, a fantastic book.

Do you guys think that you would be able to give up the lifestyle Aidin had? I think that perhaps such a luxurious care free lifestyle would be forever interesting. Constant women and bottle service, but perhaps not having to work anything grows old. As mentioned before, improving himself and completing the list became his own vice.

I only read one book at a time, but I like to jump around between genres and styles so I don't get bored.

I'm generally the same way, but when I get hooked on a series I devour it. I was at the beach when I read A Game of Thrones so it was easy to grab and tear through the rest of them.

Still on the list, how did you perceive it as a valid tool for psychiatric treatment? Anyone here with a psychologist background (other than being the one on the couch)? What does this list have to offer the real world of psychology, if anything?

Of course, this question is not about the purpose of the list in the novel. We know that. What about the list as a real tool?

Considering a lot of the stuff on the list is not easily accomplished by the average human, I don't see it being very useful.

The idea of the list might be useful as an experimental or rehabilitative tool, but I can't see it having a hole lot of uses. But if you break it down to the simplest form you get the 12 steps of AA. In essence it is really just a list. So in that way it is all ready a widely used tool.

As far as being applicable to the general population, I think the list is a bust. However, with Aidin it really did sadisfy is addictive personality. It was the right thing for him, because it allowed him to be addicted to something safe which gave him rewarding experiences he would not have normally gone after.
Then again, I don't think the list was supposed to be the next new psychology craze. Its pretty obvious that Dr. Paradies is just using it as a way to control her patients and get them to perform and get ready for tasks she needs done.

True. And without spoiling the book for anyone, I suppose Paradies, of anyone, would know how Adin works.

Totally, I mean it's almost as if towards the end, with the final choice. She more did it for her own piece of mind, because really it wasn't a choice.

Thoughts about Dana and about her being blind?

What purpose does her character serve?

Is she meant to represent something beyond what Aidin sees her as?

I saw Dana as simply a way for Adin to understand the unimportance of image, considering Dana cannot see.

Though, based on her cover portrayal, she's super hot, so she must have someone to help her get dolled up each morning.

I met "Dana" and she's not blind at all! And makes me glad I'm not, either.

But seriously, I read the first edition of this last year and apologize for being fuzzy on some specifics. I don't recall Aidin ever being sympathetic because he's a douche at his core. There was a definite arc that the reader recognizes, though. At the end I imagined him kind of like Shawn Archer (still a douche, but rehabbed in other ways).

Maybe a sub-discussion near month's end could highlight the differences between the editions.

I'm glad I'm not alone in the Aidin is a douche department.

Just like the list Dana was set up to exactly meet Aidins needs. He could relate to her because she had a dissability which was similar to his (based on where she was in her life when she got it)and because she was raised and lived a very similar life. I think Dana was just used as a control factor for aidin. She was always encouraging him to follow the list. She became his only friend and sound board outside of paradies, so it was an excellent way to control him.
Outside of her intended purpose though, I think somewhere in their interactions Aidin developed real feelings for the first time in his life. After the betrayal it backfired and cemented in in the "douch" apathetic mindset we found him in at the beggining and end of the book.

I burned through the first half of this in one sitting today. I'm really digging it and like that I'm still not entirely sure where it's going.

The Checklist is something that I am obsessed with. I would almost like to live a few months of my life like that. Just doing all this stuff that I would never normally do.

Right. I'm not sure where you are, but some of the list stuff gets a little out there. The first lists though - I was thinking the same thing. Finding stuff you enjoy. Going to a place all by yourself and doing just one thing. Or whatever they were - they all felt like stuff that would be pretty rewarding.

Finished this up today. Man, really takes a royal twist towards the end there, doesn't it? I couldn't stop thinking about Wanted during the last few chapters of the book. The comic, not the movie.

Honestly, I kind of want an "Aiden travelogue"

In your experience, are Tietz's portrayals of nightlife realistic? Do they need to be?

My experiences of nightlife don't involve anything remotely close to the events in the book.

Of course, I have never been in a place with a dress code, let alone a velvet rope or legitimate doormen. I've always stuck to bars and pubs.

That said, his descriptions are what I imagine those places to be like. Hooray for opinions based on TV and movies.

Yeah, I don't have that kind of money to waste. Nor do I really care to experience his type of nightlife. But if movies and books are accurate then I'm sure Tietz is too.