Holden Caulfield is gay...(edited)
While rereading The Catcher in The Rye for perhaps the 4th or 5th time I came to the sudden and shocking realization that Holden is a homosexual. I got online, and did a couple searches and came up with a couple very detailed and informative written essays suppporting this idea. I am not sure how interested anyone here is in this book, but I have always considered it to be one of the greatest novels ever written. If you still have doubt, reread it with the impression that he is gay, and you will see that on every page it becomes blatantly obvious. There are other essays online that go into even more detail. Did you notice Holden's obsession withthe male body? How he describes the transvestite in complete detail, or how he watches stradlter get prepared, or that all the men he contacts in New York apear to have similar interests in homosexuality. How he talks about the flitty men at the bar in detail while waiting for Luce? There is so much, and it is so obvious...
Kinda funny how mainstream society hasnt accepted this as a {posibility}. I have even read a book or two about this story and they refuse to acknowledge that Holden is a homosexual. Although I am not gay, I feel that I can still relate to Holden and his feelings towards society and himself, and still consider it to be one of the greatest novels ever written.
Is He, Or Isn’t He?
By Jessica Mahrt
------------------------------------------------------------
Ready for some controversy? What I am going to discuss is by no means the “right” answer. The fact that The Catcher in the Rye is so ambiguous in its meaning is what makes J.D. Salinger’s work a compelling book to read – it is open to interpretation. My proposal is that Holden Caulfield is dealing with homosexual feelings. Don’t worry; my co-authors questioned my point of view at first, too. Holden’s relationships with others – school friends, girls, professors, and even a prostitute – provide evidence of his homosexual tendencies.
The deeper I read into The Catcher in the Rye, the more I started thinking about my friend, Andy. Andy is my best friend from high school. Everyone thought that we were an item because we did everything together – shopping, watching ‘I Love Lucy’ episodes, and swing dancing. But there was a problem, I couldn’t tell if Andy was in love with me or if he was gay.
Many of Holden’s actions are similar to Andy’s. Perhaps that is what prompted my mind to consider Holden in this manner. Andy was constantly admiring my clothes and sense of style, but I never got the vibe that he saw me as a sexual being. However, Andy was apt to look critically at male bodies. To hide this tendency, Andy over exaggerated heterosexual behaviors. He felt a need to cover up part of his individuality because he realized that most people viewed him as a homosexual (including his parents). Andy didn’t acknowledge himself as gay because society frowns on this sexual identity. Holden does likewise when he makes up an excuse about picking up his gym equipment (though he never goes to the gym), carries on about how much he hates the theatre (although he frequents the theatre three times), and he vividly emphasizes his description of the guy dressing up in drag (he acts like it is unacceptable, but he seems extremely interested). Just like Andy, Holden feels that he has to over compensate for his questionable sexual identity.
Holden has unusual relationships with his fellow male students at Pencey. This sixteen-year-old boy acts out in ways that several people would consider inappropriate for a boy of his age. For example, why is Holden relentlessly pleading for Ackley to touch his body? Holden’s response is, “I was only horsing around, naturally. That stuff gives me a bang sometimes”(22). It struck a nerve, when Holden followed his roommate, Stradlater, as he prepared for a date. Holden is demonstrating the same actions that I did when watching my mother get ready. Isn’t it odd that Holden watches Stradlater shave (twice), style his hair, and dress? Holden comments on Stradlater’s body, “He always walked around in his bare torso because he thought he had a damn good build. He did, too. I have to admit it”(26). Even after he leaves, Holden can’t stop thinking about what a “sexy bastard” Stradlater is.
Throughout the book, Holden carries on pseudo relationships with numerous girls, such as Jane Gallagher and Sally Hayes. However, these relationships are more familiar to the companionship that Andy and I shared. Holden can better relate to girls than heterosexual boys; they have common interests. Stradlater is stunned when Holden reveals that he used to play checkers with Jane Gallagher. Stradlater wants to get into Jane’s pants, while Holden wants to play a friendly game of checkers. Holden is so concerned about Jane going out with Stradlater because he shares an emotional connection with her. He knows and understands Jane on a deeper level than Stradlater could ever hope to achieve. He cares too much for Jane, maybe more than she cares for him, and Holden doesn’t want to see her become another one of Stradlater’s victims. Holden possibly inquires about Jane to see if she still holds onto the touching moments they shared over checkers. The relationship that Holden has with Sally is also obscure. He has a picture of Sally displayed on his chiffonier, a picture of a girl he used to go out with. Is this his claim to a ‘real’ girlfriend? Is Sally on display to displace any thoughts and provide proof regarding Holden’s questionable homosexuality?
Holden notices the clothing that girls wear more than their bodies. He pictures Sunny, the prostitute, purchasing her green dress. The first thing Holden notices when he glimpses Sally is her stylish black coat, and before he even sees Phoebe, he is already commenting on her shoes. “I never saw the shoes before. They were new. They were these dark brown loafers, sort of like this pair I have, and they went swell with that suit my mother bought her in Canada”(159). Time out! What sixteen year old brother would take notice of his little sister’s new shoes, and then go on to consider how well they went with a particular outfit? My brother would not realize if I shaved my head, but Andy could recall exactly how many inches were chopped off and how much ease of styling I’d have. And back to that green dress… Holden’s remark sums up my argument as he says, “I know you’re supposed to feel pretty sexy when somebody gets up and pulls their dress over their head, but I didn’t”(95). He even goes so far as to make up an operation to validate his lack of interest in the prostitute.
Holden has significant relationships with his professors. Holden states, “I just mean that I used to think about old Spencer quite a lot”(6). Not many students spend considerable amounts of time daydreaming about their professors. Holden then gives a specific bodily description of Mr. Spencer. He wraps up his critique of old Spencer with, “I sort of wished he’d cover up his bumpy chest. It wasn’t such a beautiful view”(13). Holden is obsessed with a preoccupation of male bodies. He evaluates men much in the same fashion that crass, heterosexual men assess women. For instance, males may comment on a woman’s round, large butt in a negative connotation; though they may secretly be attracted to its ‘come hither’ appeal. Conceivably, Holden actually finds Mr. Spencer’s chest sexually stimulating.
Holden spent many times with Mr. Antolini, too. They frequently played tennis, and Mr. Antolini had dinners at Holden’s home. During their conversation, Mr. Antolini notes Holden’s dislike of jocks and ‘car talk’. The professor’s most striking words are, “Many, many men have been just as troubled morally and spiritually as you are right now”(189). Perhaps Mr. Antolini is trying to reassure Holden that his homosexual feelings are okay. In his own way, Mr. Antolini is letting Holden know that he respects and accepts the person that he is. Mr. Antolini realizes that Holden is gay. Readers see a different side to the professor as he strokes Holden’s head (92). Maybe Mr. Antolini is so supportive of Holden because he, too, is a homosexual leading a double lifestyle. If Mr. Antolini is outwardly accepting Holden, why does Holden run away? Holden is most likely confused about his feelings and desires. The society that he is a part of sends messages that gays are bad, corrupt, and immoral individuals. It may be too scary of a realization for Holden if he acknowledges his gayness.
In all fairness, Holden does experience situations that are dissimilar from the proposed homosexuality that I suggested. He mentions that Mrs. Morrow has “quite a lot of sex appeal” (56). Holden has had practice with girls. “I spent the whole night necking with a terrible phony named Anne Louise Sherman”(63). He even calls up girls, such as Faith Cavendish, when he is feeling horny.
So what does this information say about Holden? Well, maybe he thinks Mrs. Morrow has sex appeal because of their romantic situation on the train. Holden is pretending to be someone else, Rudolf Schmidt. He has created a personality, and perhaps Rudolf thinks Mrs. Morrow is sexy. Society tells us that people look sexy when you lean in to light someone’s cigarette and when you are engaging in intimate conversation. Holden is play-acting. If he is so desperate to have sex, why can’t he get past necking with girls? Why doesn’t he agree to meet Faith over cocktails?
I honestly believe that Holden is a homosexual. Throughout the course of the book, Holden starts to realize that he is not an ideal heterosexual male. In my opinion, Holden has not yet convinced himself. He wants to fight his urges; he’s not ready to come out of the closet. The belief that Holden Caulfield is indeed a homosexual, changes the entire perception of the book. The Catcher in the Rye is no longer about a teenager struggling with girls and trying to find his way in the world. The book is about self-discovery. Holden’s identity is hidden by a façade of his appropriate social behavior, and very few people – the prostitute, and Mr. Antolini – can see Holden for who he actually is.
Considering that Salinger wrote the book in 1951, it is easy to understand why a gay message might be concealed within The Catcher in the Rye’s pages. However, the book’s homosexual undertones provide a self-didactic lesson for boys of this age, who are dealing with “coming out of the closet.” It provides a vindication for homosexual feelings. Imagine what an isolated world homosexuals of this time period felt. Maybe this book and its strong character, Holden, helped to reassure a besieged victim.
Oh yeah...And sean if you've come to the conclusion after the forth or fifth reread AFTER reading the essay, then I think you've been had.
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[QUOTE=H.D.Thoreau]Oh yeah...And sean if you've come to the conclusion after the forth or fifth reread AFTER reading the essay, then I think you've been had.[/QUOTE]
If you reread my original post, you will see that I came to the conclusion on MY OWN, and then out of curiousity I went online and did a couple of searches to see if anyone agreed with me.
It seems that the concept of Holden posiblely being gay disturbs you, why?
It is really too bad that you didnt respond in a studious academia-like manner, I was hoping to get into a good debate with someone, not a hateful flame war. I love this book, and this is my opinion. I'm sorry that I shared it with you, obviously you are right and I am wrong, Now Im going to go shoot myself in the head for having the audacity to have an opinion different than yours.
And please tell me, why you "have to defend the contents of a mans work"...Why the fuck do you think Im trying to criticize Salinger or his novel?
Finally, What is your fucking problem?
Wow, I was just expressing my opinion as well. you quoting my post was an "if, then" question. You think hes gay,right on, far out, heavy man. Th reason why i didn't respond becuase it should be obvious with my assassination mentionings that for over 50 years people have been reading whatever they want into the novel.
My only problem was with your "its too bad society hasn't already accepted the fact" when Ms. Mahrt uses "may" "might" and "perhaps" an awful lot in her essay. and now I have began a flame war for sharing my own opinion not of the mans work itself but in the criticisms of the work. I didn't think I put my post in a disrespectful context toward you or your cutting and pasting.
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[QUOTE=H.D.Thoreau]Wow, I was just expressing my opinion as well. you quoting my post was an "if, then" question. You think hes gay,right on, far out, heavy man. Th reason why i didn't respond becuase it should be obvious with my assassination mentionings that for over 50 years people have been reading whatever they want into the novel.
My only problem was with your "its too bad society hasn't already accepted the fact" when Ms. Mahrt uses "may" "might" and "perhaps" an awful lot in her essay. and now I have began a flame war for sharing my own opinion not of the mans work itself but in the criticisms of the work. I didn't think I put my post in a disrespectful context toward you or your cutting and pasting.[/QUOTE]
I can understand why "its too bad society hasn't already accepted the fact" bothered you. What I meant, is that its too bad society hasnt given any credit to this as a posibility.
"Oh yeah...And sean if you've come to the conclusion after the forth or fifth reread AFTER reading the essay, then I think you've been had."
i thought that this was posted in a "disrespectful context".
hd, why was i called out in your first response?
because you always say where are the book club discussions. You've read Catcher, where are your thoughts.
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my thoughts are that if you read ANYTHING with a certain spin in mind, it'll start to look good.
no, i don't think holden caulfield is gay.
also, you shouldn't admit to having read catcher in the rye more than once or twice. if the gov't finds out, you'll be "red flagged" 
Although the mainstream identifies with Holden as a teen dissatisfied with society, most of what you're construing to be proof of his "sexuality" is nothing more than another facet of his personality. One that I connect with personally.
My first time reading through Catcher in the Rye, the book freaked me out. Just little things, like how some things seemed so damn beautiful to him (Sally's tear being rubbed into the chessboard). I find myself falling into his awkward semantics: I've always been that way.
What's drawn you to the conclusion about his sexuality is not what he's done, but because you automatically assume the things behind what he's done.
You see him watching Stradlater dress and Holden notices his body. It might just be a trigger to some greater thought. You can't assume that any little part of Holden wants to jump Stradlater and shag him just because he's starin at his muscles.
Given the right circumstances everybody's gay, and you do know Holden Caufield is a fictional character not likely to show up again and clear the air anytime soon, so.........
Lies! I am Holden Caulfield, and I must say I love the cock!
Ahem. Anyway. I agree that just about anything can be read into it. If you go into it thinking he's gay than the simple fact that he didn't sleep with the prostitute will scream of homosexuality. The truth is, his sexuality doesn't really matter in the big picture. But I really like the fact that it's so questionable. It makes his character that much more accessable to a wider audience.
That's actually kinda funny you bring that up. I had originally only read Catcher in high school, but over my winter break this year i picked up a copy and re-read it, and I actually picked up on some of the stuff you mentioned and was thinking the same thing. I never did any searches on it or anything, or even really gave it a second though, It just crossed through my mind. Interesting debate though.
[B]I've got candy[/B]...[I]Get into my van.[/I]
Gay or not, I don't think it matters.
The sexual orientation of a fictional character really doesn't have a big effect on my life.
To be honest, I didn't read that whole big essay. But I skimmed it. There doesn't seem to be any literary content in there apart from "proving" that the character is a homosexual. Whoop-dee-doo. A big-freaking-waste-of-time essay on an amazing book with SO much deeper content than which gender the character prefers.
Now, if his sexual preference actually had something to do with the plot, then I can see this making sense. I've read the book a few times too, and while it didn't occur to me that Holden might be gay, I fail to see how it would change the effect of the story.
So. Tell me, going along with your theory that he's gay... why? Why would Salinger make his character's sexuality so obscure that people could debate about it? And what does this do to the story that a straight character wouldn't?
It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it's important to understanding or enjoying the book.
[img]http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/fan/cw/allstars/malakaiiiGold.gif[/img]
"I'm not lying. I'm writing fiction with my mouth!" - Homer Simpson
Malakiii,
I agree, his sexuality doesnt play an important role in the story, or change the effect of the story. Salinger's writing always seems to have so many different levels, and there are often subtle themes throughout the story. I think JD has made Holden's sexuality obscure because it allows different people to read diffferent things into the story. Each person can choose what means what to them. Perhaps I am reading more into this than nessecary.
I agree, there is alot more deeper content int he story, maybe we can start a disscussion group about it sometime. My AOL IM is manning626 if you wanna chat.
Peace,
Sean
[QUOTE=kdanarch]Although the mainstream identifies with Holden as a teen dissatisfied with society, most of what you're construing to be proof of his "sexuality" is nothing more than another facet of his personality. One that I connect with personally.
I also connect with his personality.
My first time reading through Catcher in the Rye, the book freaked me out. Just little things, like how some things seemed so damn beautiful to him (Sally's tear being rubbed into the chessboard). I find myself falling into his awkward semantics: I've always been that way.
The first time I read it (which was striaght through without putting it dow) I walked around in circles trying to comprehend it's briliance.
What's drawn you to the conclusion about his sexuality is not what he's done, but because you automatically assume the things behind what he's done.
Im not automatically assuming anything. I didn't even come to this conclusion until several readings of tbhe book. A matter of fact, I never even questioned his sexuality because I assumed he was straight, and why would I think different. Thats what is so great about books, everyone can come to thier own conclusions. I stand by mine. All this debate goes to show us how much we love the book, because otherwise, no one would even bother thinking or debating it.
I must say though, no one has shown any evidence supporting his him being a heterosexual.
If you are accusing me of "just assuming" he is gay, than how are you yourself not assuming he is straight?
QUOTE]
Seanmanning, are you gay, and is that what this fixation is all about..Huh?
Cause its okay you know.
[QUOTE=morey]Given the right circumstances everybody's gay, and you do know Holden Caufield is a fictional character not likely to show up again and clear the air anytime soon, so.........[/QUOTE]
I am so sick and fucking tired of this argument. Everybody is not straight or gay. Just because you can't male up your mind doesn't mean I can't.
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
[QUOTE=morey]Cause its okay you know.[/QUOTE]
Okay cool.
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[url]www.gayfaggotcocksuckerholdencaulfieldhomodickballs.edu[/url]
[QUOTE=Parkaboy]I am so sick and fucking tired of this argument. Everybody is not straight or gay. Just because you can't male up your mind doesn't mean I can't.[/QUOTE]
I wonder what Freud would say about the subconscious placement of the word "male" in the context of that statement?
[QUOTE=SeanManning]I wonder what Freud would say about the subconscious placement of the word "male" in the context of that statement?[/QUOTE]
Funny. Fucking spellcheck, where were you?
I was here. Then I wasn't. Then I was again.
Meh, looks like I got here too late. This argument has been thoroughly beaten to death. Might as well add my own two cents.
Regardless of wether or not it has any effect on the novel as a whole, I can say with a decent amount of confidence that Holden is not homosexual.
In truth, the idea that Holden might be gay hadn't even occured to me before I was sent to this thread, so, naturally, I approached with an open mind.
I read the first few paragraphs of Ms. Mahrt's essay, and began to think "Hmmm, perhaps he IS gay after all." But the train stops there.
As I continued I ran into numerous references to personal experience, as if some one that the author knew was the poster child for every gay male in existence. Even if she is able to see certain striking similarities between her friend and Holden, I am certain that there are numerous differences as well.
Furthermore, Ms. Mahrt is constantly explaining what a normal male of 16 years should be thinking or doing when in fact, she has no idea what she's talking about, an unfortunate consequence of having grown up as a female.
Lastly, Ms. Mahrt takes full advantage of stereotypes in her essay by citing an intrest in clothing as a red flag for homosexuality. I mean Christ, does she actually expect Holden to notice his kid sisters body above her clothes? Personally, I'm releived he did not.
I found this statement pretty funny:
[QUOTE]For instance, males may comment on a woman’s round, large butt in a negative connotation; though they may secretly be attracted to its ‘come hither’ appeal. Conceivably, Holden actually finds Mr. Spencer’s chest sexually stimulating.[/QUOTE]
First of all, ugly is ugly, no matter what your sexual oreintation might be, and as far as I can tell, Mr. Spencer doesn't sound very appealing unless Holden is fostering some kind of fetish for old, wrinkly people.
Also, yet another reference is made to a world in which the author has had no dealings.
After doing a little research, I also found that Ms. Mahrt majored/is majoring in theatre during her stay in Eastern Illinois University in Charleston, Illinois. As if the above reasons weren't enough to doubt the credibility of the author, I hardly feel a theatre major has sufficient enough knowledge to decide if a hormonally stressed 16 year old is gay based solely on subtle hints placed in his personal thoughts.
Thus I do not beleive that Holden is gay based on the fact that there is not nearly enough solid evidence to support this theory, whereas one can easily point out several blatent acts of heterosexuality expressed by Holden.
On a side note:
[QUOTE]I wonder what Freud would say about the subconscious placement of the word "male" in the context of that statement?[/QUOTE]
Owned. XD
Holden Caufield should have jumped. Teh end.
On a more serious note, I think Holden's sexual orientation was supposed to be up in the air, not one or the other. Or even both. That was the point. Here he is, this kid who's got a lot going on involving his family and school, money, girls, weird teachers, hookers, the guys working the elevator, little kids singing and writing curse words on walls. You know, thats a lot for a 17 year old to deal with, and on top of that his sexuality has a bunch of question marks behind it. Its just more icing on the cake.
P.S. Salinger eats poo.
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nice post milky
if you go through and read it with the notion of hidden nazi propeganda you might be able to find that too
if you go through thinking he was really talking about hungry hungry hippo's you might be able to find a line or two to support that.
you can interpret anything to be anything if your in the mindset to do so.
Okay. I have avoided [I]The Catcher in the Rye[/I] all my life. Pretty amazing since I got my degree in English. I always figured I would get around to it eventually.
Well, finally, my wife decided to read the book as a pre-cursor to reading Frank Portman's (aka Dr. Frank) [I]King Dork[I]. So, I decided to start reading it when she wasn't.
Before I give my opinion, let me tell you everything I knew about Catcher...accurate or otherwise. It was written by J.D. Salinger who was kind of a schizophrenic loon who drank his own pee and had real family problems. The main character is Holden Caulfield who swore a lot, and apparently was really obsessed with getting laid. It was published in a plain red jacket with the title on the front. When I was a freshman in high school a kid in my class voluntarily read it for an assignment. My English teacher was thrilled as it was his favorite book and he said that the overall theme of the book is that people are superficial. The guy who shot John Lennon was carrying around a copy of it with him. He was crazy, too, and had been going around NYC doing things and going places that Holden Caufield had done and been to. According to [I]King Dork[/I] it is the favorite book fo English teachers everywhere. That seems to have been borne out at least in my freshman English class. That's about it. Oh yeah, I think some punk band had a song "Who wrote Holden Caulfield?" And obviously, I was aware that it is a very famous book.
After that, there really isn't much I know about it. I have never read it. I may have leafed through it at the book store once, but I don't really remember anything specific if I did.
Well, I mention this, because I think I came into the book 100% unbiased about Caulfield's sexual orientation. I wasn't looking for him to be gay or straight, I didn't even know there was a controversy. I figured with his obsession over getting laid, he would probably be into girls. Well, by page 29 I had already determined he was gay and searched for "holden caulfield" and gay on google and came here. he's gay.
I love The Catcher in the Rye...I was so excited to read it this year in school and was shocked to see that I was the only one who had read it. We started it but my class crapped out which is awful because I had an awesome teacher this year. The sad thing is after reading for a while people didn't even realize what Holden was talking to a shrink. Now I have to go read it again and look at this gay thing
[QUOTE=brautigan25] According to [I]King Dork[/I] it is the favorite book fo English teachers everywhere. That seems to have been borne out at least in my freshman English class. [/QUOTE]
as much as I hate that book this might be a pretty interesting topic
Why?! why do English teachers feel the need to push that garbage on the youth of the nation?
This is actually an interesting thread, simply b/c of the grey areas always presented in fiction. Is Holden gay? Who knows. Do I think he is? I could really care less b/c it isn't the central driving theme of who he is.
The reason the book is so good is b/c of its connection with adolescence, that emotion that we have all at one point felt to some degree (some more, some less) is what drives this book. Perspective is another that makes this book unique, where you can find beauty and what is ugly in the world to a teenager. I read this book when I was 16, and then when I was 21 and felt completely different both times. Then I read it when I was 24 and the affect was different from the previous two b/c I as a person had changed, my experiences and maturity level had evolved and my perspective was different. I haven't read the book since then but I bet if I did it would be different yet again.
To me, it isn't the greatest book ever or anything but it is an important book and the sexual orientation of the protagonist has nothing to do with its importance. FWIW, when I was a self-concious and insecure teen I often compared myself to my peers, it wasn't sexual, it was me wondering how I fit-in in the world around me.
it's only after you have lost everything that your free to do anything
Dammit, I thought this was another thread about how much Catcher in the Rye blows. I was ready to jump in with my two bits. As it stands though, I don't really care whether or not Holden is gay or not, either way he can go fuck himself.
i think it was a book based on the questions teens can have facing society and life, not on the answers... so we don't give a fuck if he's gay or not.
i think he might be he might not be but i thnk it is very possible, salinger has written about homosexuality in other stories like Just Before the War With the Eskimos and probably more i just havent read enough of his work
Why is Holden Caulfield being gay such a big, controversial theory?
Nowaday's everything has a gay interpretation or a gay subtext.
Hell, I'm sucking a dick[I] right [/I]now.
And for the record I didn't dislike Catcher in the Rye.
yeah and he's not even a real person anyway. [I]I'm sucking a dick right now too![/I]
faggots.
I haven't read the book and even I think he's a fag!
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[I][B]You Do Not Insult J.D. Salinger With This Shit!!![/B][/I]
Yeast an idea! Homo traps in the closet are bound to catch the unwary gay! Yeast an idea! Think about it! ModerJesus!
I'm only halfway through my first reading of this book, and until reading this forum his sexuality had never come into question. I don't really understand why we are wanted to go into a book with the mindset of trying to determine the protagonist's sexuality. If it isn't integral to the plot or one of the major themes, and it isn't in Catcher, who cares?
I think it just remains to be said that any one of a hundred everyday menaces - a car accident, a head cold, a lie before breakfast - could have disfigured or coarsened his bounteous good looks in a day or a second.
Well, long outdated I suppose, but I still find it interresting. Mostly because some of the commenters seem to be shocked and even appalled at the mere sugestion that this could be true.
I tried reading the book three times before I finally got through it. What finally got me to bother with it again was when my two friends, in their last year in uni, went to their respective exams dressed as Holden and made a case for his homosexuality, and aced it.
This of course, does not prove that he is gay. It does however prove, that this question cannot be answered with a simple yes or no. I find it rediculous that anyone who has read this book is so narrow minded in their interpritation that they would claim otherwise.
it's either he's such a shittily written character or a brilliantly written character that anyone can ascribe whatever characteristic to him they want. I'm gonna start a theory that he's really Puerto Rican.
wonder what they edited out of this thread.
I can assure you that I haven't touched it... I have no idea.
well, i dont know where some of you fucks get off, talking about it like it's something that really matters and is important and all. it's just kinda dumb. i think, after reading it twice, that he's sexy
He holds it for a breath at waist level and turns it once for assessment. The steel barrel and along its chassis is oiled in an off shade of red, the blood smeared and somewhat caked on. In parts, it resembles a stillborn, a dark fetal horse that is all legs and wet skin.
I had heard the original working title for the book was 'Jackboots and Jockstraps', so that might be a clue.
This book has always been one of my favorites...Salinger is incredibly gifted. Holden experiences so many unknowns and as a chronicle of his journey into adulthood, it wouldn't be suprising if he was sexually confused. But in the grand scheme of it, it's a very small part of a very detailed journey into "real life". His sexuality neither changes nor enhances it in any way.
I find it disturbing when readers place so much focus on the orientation or race or political stance of an author or his character. Unless those subjects are the focus of the book, it doesn't matter. Oscar Wilde is my favorite author, and so many of his stories are painted in a different light due to his sexuality. The beauty of the story goes completely unnoticed because the reader allows himself to be distracted by issues that were never on the author's mind at all. Giving connotations to characters that had none simply because their creator had them, or vice versa.
"...you want to be truly unselfish? Love someone or die for someone. Those are the only good deeds you can perform without any hope of personal gain."
Seeim in june smiths class and this book fucking sucks. holden is a ass pirate and loves to suck big black dick. he ahs been fucked over 920318091328 times by donkies and wants to keep on doing it. this book suck my big black balls and june is a bitch. i hate her i hate her i hate her. fuck
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fuck db
fuck allie
fuck ackley
fuck pencey
fuck ME
please
niggers are welcome
wetbacks too
im snow white in the hood
bye
hes the most annoying charactor in any book Ive read.
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i've read the catcher in the rye at least six or seven times, and i really do see how his sexual orientation really has any effect on anything. if salinger really thought it would matter, i'm pretty sure he would have at least hinted (and no, all of your reasons for him being "gay" do not count as hints). i mean, come on, salinger is one of the masters of detail. (example: seymour: an introduction) i dont think he would have left it out if he thought it was important.
and you shouldn't dive into a book with pre-judgements of the character, even if you've read it before. everytime i read the catcher in the rye, i act as if it's the first time. and it get's more and more beautiful with every reading. fixating on a minor deatil such as sexuality, kinda makes you miss the whole beauty of the story as a whole.
personally, i'm not convinced he's gay. i'm sure it's possible that he is, but that's not what is important.
oh, and that was a horribly written essay. if i didn't know better, i would think she's just some fifth grader with a dictionary. i read the intoduction and gave up.
but don't think i'm putting this down. it's nice discusion topic. i, personally, just don't think it matters.
what if he was gay and a Negro?
Seeim in june smiths class and this book fucking sucks. holden is a ass pirate and loves to suck big black dick. he ahs been fucked over 920318091328 times by donkies and wants to keep on doing it. this book suck my big black balls and june is a bitch. i hate her i hate her i hate her. fuck
nigger
wetback
homo
fag
fuck them
ahhhh
holdne like penis
8===============D~~~~~o:
^ ^
nigger holden
fuck catcher in the rye
fuck holden
fuck phoebe
fuck db
fuck allie
fuck ackley
fuck pencey
fuck ME
please
niggers are welcome
wetbacks too
im snow white in the hood
bye
most insightful post in this thread.
Man, moe., I was SOOOO tempted to respond to this thread in a studious academia-like manner, but 2000 words into my argument I realized that I'd rather hear from the man himself answer these questions, but unfortunately his silence wont be aroused by my small question when such larger questions have been asked and unanswered, such as How do you feel that a reader of your one novel killed the greatest and most talented of the FAB Four?
Why do writers hate critics? Wasn't it a critic that said no one knows less about a novel than the author himself. And isn't almost a requirement that if you are in highschool or college that you and you have any interest in English you will write
a paper that has something to do with J.D. Salinger.
Holden's gay, Chucks gay, Jeffs gay, defending the detailed contents of a mans work when the man doesnt defend them himself is gay. Do I think Holden is gay? No. As far as anyone relating to Holden like the author of the aboves highschool essay, see John Hinkley jr, See Mark David Chapman. Most teens compare thier bodies with one another. Most male teens struggle with all kinds of emotional issues regarding sex. And I for one who sought solace and understanding with an adult would find myslef appauld and confused at a transaction like the one wiht Holden and his teacher. But here I go, defending universals.
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