Don DeLillo.

It's funny, you find White Noise to be missing something, I find Fight Club to be empty.

There is not enough that can be said of DeLillo so I won't say a damn thing.

i didnt like white noise to much and a lot of people tell me the same. but i loved loved loved libra

Are those the only two you have read godspeed?

i borrowed underworld, i think thats the name from a friend, i didnt get around to it so ill probably end up buying, but yeah thats all ive read. as for monsters of novels ever read any pynchon, damn crying of lot 49 awesome awesome book but there are so many underlying tones and what not. great book though. what delillo books have u read h.d

Underworld/white noise/valaprasio/the body artist/ cosmopolis/ and my favorite Mao II only because im such a devoted JD Salinger fan(fuck holden and give me the Glasses) and a book on Delillos writings.

Libra sits on my shelf waiting. Right now, as I read 5 fucking books at a time, I've just started reading Running Dog. I prefer to find his books or all books rather used and I hope to finish off with his Americana.

You mention Pynchon (poetic I know) a buddy of mine says if he could only take one book to the moon with him it would be V. I happen to praise reclusive writers. DeLillo lately has suprised me with his "touring" but I guess its just a local thing. and of course Pynchons reclusiveness is the link here as well.

well reclusiveness, its been rumored he IS J.D. Salinger as well as r crumb, no one knows who he is

Quoting from top of pg. 254, the excellent biography titled simply "SALINGER a biography" by Paul Alexander. (I might add that i picked this up in the closout section of Barnes and Noble for nearly 5 bucks

"On April 22, 1976, the Soho Weekly News published an article by John Calvin Batchelor called "Thomas Pynchon Is Not Thomas Pynchon, or, This Is the End of the Plot Which Has No Name." In his article Batchelor argued that Thomas Pynchon was not born on May 8, 1937 in Glen Cove, Long Island, New York; did not matriculate at Cornell University; did not go into the Navy for two years; did not work for a time as an editorial writer for Boeing Aircraft Corporation; and did not write such works of fiction as "Entropy," "Lowlands" and V. Instead, according to Batchelor, Pynchon was born on Jan 1, 1919 in New York City, matriculated at Ursinus College, joined the Army, met Ernest Hemingway during the war, and wrote The Catcher in the Rye and Franny and Zooey. "Yes," Batchelor wrote, Thomas Pynchon "is Jerome David Salinger."

"What I am arguing," Batchelor continues, "is that J.D. Salinger, famous though he was, simply could not go on with either the Glass family, which had become by 1959 chained to both Holden Caufield's adolescence and Seymore Glass's art of penance. So then, out of paranoia or out of pique, J.D. Salinger dropped 'by J.D. Salinger' and picked up 'by Thomas Pynchon.' A nom de plume afforded Salinger the anonymity he had sought but failed to find as Caufield's creator. It was the perfect cover."

--continued.

--cont. from above

"The response to Batchelor's article was immediate. As one might expect, Batchelor recieved a number of letters, many of them unfriendly. As on might not have expected, Batchelor also received a letter from Thomas Pynchon. Written on MGM stationary and mailed from Pluma Road, California, the letter said that he, Pynchon, had read the article, that some of it was true and some of it was not (none of the interesting parts were true, he said), and that Batchelor should "keep trying." That letter and additional factors---he began to meet people who actaully knew Pynchon---forced Batchelor to reasses his theory that Thomas Pynchon was J.D. Salinger, or rather, that J.D. Salinger was Thomas Pynchon. "I am telling you right now," Batchelor wrote a year later on April 28, 1977, in the Soho Weekly News, "that some if not most of those manuscripts"--V., The Crying of Lot 49, Gravity's Rainbow---"have come from J.D.Salinger. I am telling you right now that some of those manuscipts might have come from Thomas Pynchon. I am telling you right now that parts of those manuscripts might have come from Donald Barthelme" (a New Yorker writer known for his postmodern short stories). "I'd like to think Salinger wrote almost everything. It's the romantic in me."

"In the future, while he would never grant an interview of any kind (rumor has it that he once jumped out the window of a house and ran away because he heard Norman Mailer was on his was there to talk to him), and while he would never allow himself to be photographed in any way (he does not have a driver's liscence, it's said because he refuses to ahve his photograph taken), Thoman Pynchon did finally surface enough so that people, even John Calvin Batchelor, had to admit that he did exist and that he had written all of the books credited to him. Pynchon would marry Melanie Jackson, the New York literary agent, with whom he would have a son. That son, as luck would have it, would even end up attending the same Manhattan prep school as Batchelor's son.

"'I've come to accept that Pynchon wrote those books," Batchelor says. 'What I came to accept was that, with Salinger and Pynchon, we are dealing with two eccentrics, not one. Sometimes it takes getting a perpective on a situation and that's what I've done in this case."

-----------------------ending on pg 256 of above stated biography.

It's the romantic in me as well that likes to keep them guys seperate.

As of roughly 300 pages in Underworld is excellent, though my rule of not buying Diary until I'm through with it will probably go straight to shit. The Body Artist is only $8 right now so I might buy that and take a break from Underworld and see what finishing a Delillo is like.

Yeah rules...Like I said above I'm reading five at a time. Some combinations of books I dont think do the mind good (i.e. Marx's Communist Manifesto, Thoreau's Walden, and Fight Club; those three together will make you unregretably quit your job and say fuck being responsible; that is to say if your the subjective reader that I am)

Lemme know how either the baody artist, which is poetic yet short, or Underworld turns out for you.

A little personal advice for if you find your literary appetite overwhelmgin and you notice you have a book in your backpack a book on your night stand, a few different book on your desk, a book in your car; try atleast reading for a purpose. This is ususally what I do. read for pleasure, for education, for research and for spiritual purposes. Right now this at least the one's I'm admitting to:

Mrs. Dalloway= V. Woolf----research, damn sure not for enjoyment.

The Bays Are Sere=Eduouard Dujardin----research, education.

Running Dog=Don DeLillo--enjoyment.

(biographies I read for research as well as the gossip hound in me)
Memorie Babe, a critical biography of Jack Kerouac=Gerard Nicosia
Jame Joyce=Richard Ellman
The Days of Henry Thoreau=Walter Harding

Last but not least:

The Portable Jung=edited by Joseph Campbell

I know you didnt ask what the hell was I reading I just felt it my liberty to bore you and maybe show you how I define my soups or salads, main course, and dessert(which is always Chuck by the way). And also I must confess that a couple of these bios I've been reading for a a year or more and I may not ever finish with the complete list as I probaly have some type of ADD.

hows that critical biography of kerouac

i took a 20th century american novel course, and my least favorite book for the entire course (and we had to read gertrude stein, too) was [i]White Noise[/i]. Which is weird, b/c I usually lap up that dystopia post-modernist shit with a spoon.

Thats what people get for having to read something for school, takes the pleasure right out of it. White NOise let me down as well.

As far as the Kerouac is going I may let you know if I ever get it finished but It will be in the kerouac thread.

White Noise was 500 hundred pages of dialouge and three paragraphs of plot. It was so bad, I'll never pick up one of his books again, no matter how great other people say it is.

Plot, plot, plot. Who gives a shit about plot? Go read a Tom Clancy book.

Dead god I hate Tom Clancy.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]White Noise was 500 hundred pages of dialouge and three paragraphs of plot. It was so bad, I'll never pick up one of his books again, no matter how great other people say it is. [/B][/QUOTE]

That book had such wonderful dialouge.

Damn you XChuck, I'd been planning to delete that last, worthless message of mine, eventually, but now I can't. I'll say the same thing in a nicer way:

"Hello Lazlosdead, how are you? I am fine. If you went into White Noise expecting a story filled with rising action and an exciting climax, you went into it expecting the wrong book! Don DeLillo's books are driven by ideas, and not by the steps they take in the plot dia (even still, many of them ARE driven by conspiracies and the like, so you might want to give one of his other books, like Libra, a try)! I would suggest that you try Tom Clancy's books, but even his are bogged down in technical detail, so you might want to watch television instead. Have a nice day! Your new friend, Patrick."

White Noise was less like TV and more like radio with batteries.... things happen on TV..... the radio will keep talking to itself until it can't any longer... White Noise was like that..... Maybe I'm too "simple" for not wanting to analyze his book..... Perhaps I just lack imagination..... I guess it's the same as listening to long drawn out speech by a person I don't care about. Say what you gotta say and move on.

Sorry if I was an asshole there, Lazlosdead. I completely understand not liking the book.

I love the book... oh well.

i didnt much care for white noise myself, but i did find some delillo that completely blew me away

Mao II

if you are a salinger or pynchon fan this book is a must. it is My favorite of all of his books.

Part of the story is about this female photographer, Brita Nilsson. She takes photos of writers only. She goes to photograph, Bill Gray, the main character of the story, a reclusive writer that hasnt put out a book in many years.

Part of inspiration that had warranted DeLillos need to explore is various themes was a front page headline of a New York post where the media had tracked down JD Salinger and took a picture of a very enraged old man.

I walk into my local independent book store, the book beat book shoppe, ang begin to chat with my buddy Shilo that runs the place and under the counter I find a book of postcards with Vonnegut on the front entitled "Men Writers" or something, my google failed in finding the exact name. But, the book was postcards of nothing but men writers. Vonnegut, Mailer, Elliot and probably 20 other guys, what brought upon the search was I wondered if DeLillo was in there, sure enough, in black and white and somber looking, he was posing like the rest of them. I forget the name of the photgrapher, but I know it was a woman.

But of course there was no Palahniuk, and of course no Mr. Salinger.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XChuck [/i]
[B]I love the book... oh well. [/B][/QUOTE]

So do I, but I felt bad about immediately shooting down his opinion.

After finishing UNDERWORLD at seven in the AM on a Sunday morninng i stepped outside in the garden and lit a cigarette.

As i was looking up at the sky i noticed a small bird landing on our shed.

I took another drag and felt like a better person and more alive because of reading UNDERWORLD.

aint that the fucking truth. probably the best ending I have ever read. see you motherfuckers there it is.

Hey, man, it's cool. Perhaps, I was a little too strong willed as well.... I think I may give Underworld a shot, but if it sucks, I never touch anither of his books again.

"Trick me once, shame on you
Trick me twice, shame on me."

I read The Body Artist about a week ago and it's really unlike anything else I've read. The way the dialogue is handled really impressed me. Normally when a writer tries for overly-realistic dialogue it reads like a bad issue of Interview magazine, with all the pauses and non-sequiturs left in, but DeLillo managed to pull it off somehow.

I just started on the Underworld, and the prologue, like all the reviews say, is amazing. This is a book that. so far at least, has actually lived up to it's massive hype.

Yeah but wait to you get to the Epilogue. The book may slow a bit for a hundred pages or so, but by God, son, just wait.

alright, you have all convinced me.
i'm looking up DeLillo next time i go to the library.

I was killling time in the University library and I found three books on DeLillo that Ive checked out that some of you guys might be interested in:

[b][url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0820323209/qid=1069089156/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-2005166-3365667?v=glance&s=books]Don DeLillo The Physic of Language, David Cowart[/url][/b]

In this revised edition, David Cowart discusses Don DeLillo's thirteen novels, including his latest, Cosmopolis, and explores the ways in which DeLillo's art anticipates, parallels, and contests ideas that have become the common currency of poststructuralist theory. Cowart argues that the major site of DeLillo's engagement with postmodernism is language, which DeLillo represents as more mysterious--numinous even--than current theory allows. For DeLillo, language remains what Cowart calls "the ground of all making."

[b][url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874137853/qid=1069089582/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2005166-3365667?v=glance&s=books]Underwords: Perspectives on Don Delillo's Underworld, Dewey, Kellman, and Malin[/url][/b]

[b][url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252014839/qid=1069089410/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2005166-3365667?v=glance&s=books]In the Loop: Don Delillo and the Systems Novel, Tom LeClair[/url][/b]

I just got The Body Artist.
I haven't read it yet, and it only cost me five dollars for the hardcover edition, brand new at barnes and nobel. I'll probably read it sometime this week.

I really liked White Noise so I was pleased that there was so much by Don DeLillo that I hadn't read and I picked up Americana soon afterwards. I was so disappointed with this hellishly boring novel I've read nothing of DeLillo since. Was this a mistake? Which book will restore my faith?

I havent read Americana...but I soo want to, as sooin as I can find it used...I was let down some with white noise....I was a loyal follower when I finished Underworld and Great Jones Street...underworld is long though but is the best conquest with a poetic ending that one expects out of an Epic like that...

I'll have a go with Underworld. You might like Americana, it starts off in a really engaging fashion but after a while it drags and it's so easy to lose interest.

Well, it was his first and has an assorted mix of reviews. Some say that he just layed down ideas that he would fashion batter in the future...the primary reason I wanna check it out is because it was his first..Im sure he has grown considerably since I just want to see how the hell his first novel is...but I guess If i was so interested I'd go buy it new....but thats really not the way I work.

I've had Underworld on my shelf for about a month, but each time I look at it all I can think of is how much committment this book will take. The TPB weighs in at, like, 3 friggin' pounds!

I read Pafko at the Wall a year ago (which is apparently a republished prologue of Underworld) and it was a very interesting take on sports, politics, society, and the 'cluster effect'. I read White Noise about a year ago though and was completely blown away, so I dont' know what the problem is other than the fear of getting 200 pages in and loathing it so much but having to finish it. It's completely unrational, but I guess I feel a little like I would have only read this hulk if it was assigned in college or something.....

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TastesLikeChicken [/i]
[B]I've had Underworld on my shelf for about a month, but each time I look at it all I can think of is how much committment this book will take. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats how I am with Finnegans Wake resting above me, "cept Ive had it for a couple years and have acquired a stack of studies that are to go with it...I dont know if I can invest that much time..Ulysses took a year out of my life and I havent ben able to think the same sense..I'm scared of what Joyce's book fo the Dark would do to me.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by H.D.Thoreau [/i]
[B]Thats how I am with Finnegans Wake resting above me, "cept Ive had it for a couple years and have acquired a stack of studies that are to go with it...I dont know if I can invest that much time..Ulysses took a year out of my life and I havent ben able to think the same sense..I'm scared of what Joyce's book fo the Dark would do to me. [/B][/QUOTE]

I haven't tried Finnegan's Wake yet, but man, Ulysses was like chasing a bird while you're wading through honey. I look back on that one and it's like I climbed a fucking [I]mountain[/I].

What's even better is that Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake are absolutely [I]notorious[/I] for taking people years to get through. I don't envy you at all, my friend.

Bonus book that takes forever: Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

Gravity's Rainbow...I started that one as a break from ulysses but only made it through the first couple of paqes before i wrote on the first page "written in the language of chalkboard screeches" needless to say i havent found time for that one either...Underworld is an accomplishment ALMOST in the same way as Ulysses. Believe it.

I don't like to see this thread buried.

Just found a used copy of Americana and damn i dont know if I can let it sit so long until i get through these others.

Dennis, you read Great Jones Street yet? Get off your ass and go, now.

caffienated,
----------------G.

ah thomas pynchon, a fucking web of language, in all my readings i have found him the hardest im currently reading V. he has so many goddamn characters in all of his books there so hard to follow. i loved the crying of lot 49 if you didnt like gravitys rainbow this might put you in the mood for more pynchon. for gravitys rainbow there readers companions that go through every fucking page.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by godspeed [/i]
[B]hows that critical biography of kerouac [/B][/QUOTE]

Im still reading it if that tells you anything.

Hmm... I was actually turned off on the thought of reading DeLillo after reading this essay in the Atlantic a few years back.

[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/07/myers.htm[/url]

Curious what the people who love DeLillo have to say about it.

It's a long piece. If you only want to read the part on DeLillo, do a search on the word "edgy." He goes into even more detail on the book of the same name that he wrote after his Atlantic piece took off and caused so much controversy.

Jeff

you know... i dont even care to read that fucking boring ass article in its entireity....this type of criticism and its circulation i wholeheartedly believe is captured in Hermann Hesses Magister Ludi/Glass Bead Game.

I watched the replay of theAmerican book awards and watched Stephen King come off against the pretentious LITERARY WORLD. I watched one of my favorites Walter Mosley, become what could be pronounced as a driveling idiot. I read the article where Harold Bloom talked against this whole idea of popular fiction versus literary fiction or whatever. Who really cares??!! WHat the hell is the point of reading? of writing? No matter who defines it will always be the very same kind of argumetns as politics and religion and the more an idea is expressed the more people will define it in their own words and try to get others to see it the same way.

As far as DeLillo is concered with me with regards to genre writing versus literary this is the same shit as the music industry classify different types of music according to some list that is always changing. Running Dog is a mystery...Great Jones Street could be Pop Culture..End Zone is a sports novel...Ratners Star could be Science fiction....

I've said this over and over White Noise didnt sell me on DeLillo. When I sit down to read a Novel im not looking to go away hungry, DeLillos themes have me...Underworld was great...for any Salinger or Pynchon fan or anyone interested in the sins of the publishing world and the possible reactions fo writers with regards to them I havent read a book with so much scope as Mao II. And as far as the Ellis quote that first sent me to DeLillo everyday that goes by I think what the fuck was that guy thinking.

As far as me reading to grow as a writer I choose to read people who express their own lives in a such a way that gives me encouragement on my own voice not theirs, even if i do choose to steal. How many people were turned off by Joyce...but know look how the CHURCH OF REASON has lifted his art. Look at Keroaucs school. Look at Walden for Chrissakes.

As far as that article is concerned its just another voice in the prevailing winds...I want an experience out of the novel...it doesnt matter who it pleases as long as it pleases me...and DeLillo presents to me a way to fictionalize my own life experinces and turn them into ideas and music....and if I'm delusional at least it removes some of my bitterness.

I"ll tell you what HD. I will find Underworld and read everygoddamn page of it. I never planned on touching Delioo again, but you've convinced me. If this books totally sucks, I'll never trust your literary judgment ever again. If it's great, I"m more than happy to eat crow.

Not sure where you live, but I know in some used bookstores in San Francisco, there are huge remaindered stacks of Underworld hardcovers for like $4.

I'm becoming quite the fucking distracted zealot here in this church of Chuck. I'm 30 pages left in Americana and I've got the bathwater running. I plan on posting a large unscholarly and nostaglic thread shortly after...I promise it will be boring and unjust but I will find it very informative as I try to clear away the debris from the bombshell the best I can...I will use twaynes ayuthors series by kesey and maybe some other shit from some other academic...the bath is filling...despite Vendettas reaction to Americana I found it to be....well I guess I better save my commentary...gimme a day or to and I will tell you what I think of D's first novel.

I finished Underworld today, I read the Epilogue in an hour because I didn't want it to end. It'll be a long time before something comes along and tops that.

Has anyone picked up his newest one, Falling Man?
I'm thinking about maybe starting Underworld next.