Book Ripoffs
I don't get those people that read every LotR inspired book written by someone else other than Tolkien, or the similiar Star Wars, Star Trek.
These people need to get lives and read something ORIGINAL and DIFFERENT.
Like if someone, other than Chuck, wrote a sequel/spinoff to Fight Club, how f*cking boring and retarded would that be. Sorry to some of the people in this forum, that have done this, but they haven't been published so I'll let it slide.
[QUOTE=JKabol]^^^Where did this preaching shit come from: motherfucker, I loved many of the [I]Star Wars[/I] novels a few years ago when I read about thirty of them. I don't think that you are making accurate comparisons, because a novel spinning off of that epic saga is not quite the same as a novel like [I]Tyler Takes Manhattan[/I]. And [I]LOTR[/I] is a huge fucking universe that I doubt you’ve read.
Don't think you know what you are tangenting about. Judgmental prick.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, like I said I couldn't read LotR because it bored the hell out of me.
But seriously fine you like them, I can't hold that against you. If it entertains you, that's great. I just think it's boring, sold out, unoriginal. These same type of people that write Star Wars: The Lost Universe, are the same type of people that write Lora Croft: The Mayan Prophecy (These are/may not be real books, but you get the point). These people can't think of something new and original so they leech off of something successful and make money off of it. Same reason I [B]HATE[/B] pop punk music, and pop music.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
I will not knock any of the stuff Tolkien's son did, but there are other books written about middle earth and stuff like that, those are just wrong.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
Exactly. To the exception of Robert Howard (Conan) and a few others, most of heroic fantasy is completely stupid JRRT recycled. And they expect us to learn the strange names.
To be honest, Frank Herbert's son has done the same thing as Tolkien's. The dune series sucks now the he's co-opted it as his own.;
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
most people tend to read subjects that are of interest to them. in some areas of literature there are very few books written on specific topics. a lot of the people that read the star trek books are people who are really interested in star trek. same with LOTR people. i'm not going to knock it because at least these people are reading for pleasure, especially in america where
so yea, those people may be missing out on what you consider to be good reading, but they sure do seem to be enjoying their own choices, and enjoying it they are, there's a healthy market out there for knock-off books, and you should show each and every last one of them some respect, at least for the simple fact that someone is reading.
So you are saying that we should respect people that can read and speak Kligon? I don't think so. Just because they can read and understand all things ST, SW, or LotR does not mean that these people can function in society, in fact most of these "nerds" cannot function socially except at tradeshows.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
I respect their right to live how they chose but...... damn klingon? I've never been to one these conventions, but if somebody goes to all the trouble of learning a language that doesn't exist, then the books have to passably engrosing.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=bassplr19]So you are saying that we should respect people that can read and speak Kligon? I don't think so. Just because they can read and understand all things ST, SW, or LotR does not mean that these people can function in society, in fact most of these "nerds" cannot function socially except at tradeshows.[/QUOTE]
i'm saying, why does the variety of other's literary interests bother you in a society where nearly a third of it's adult population are nearly illiterate? you'd think you'd get more pissed at the people who read nothing as opposed to those who read something you consider to be a bad literary choice.
and your personal diversity of literature does not mean that you personally can function in a society, in fact i'd say you can't function socially except in the places you enjoy. relax a little, don't shun everyone else because they don't like the exact things you do.
[QUOTE=joeyjojojrshabadoo]To be honest, Frank Herbert's son has done the same thing as Tolkien's. The dune series sucks now the he's co-opted it as his own.;[/QUOTE]
Right, right, right.
Fucking Brian Herbert. I am reading, well, it's sitting on my night stand, the latest in the [I]second[/I] prequel to Dune. It sucks ass so bad. But you know what? I have to read it, I do. I fucking love Dune. I read it for the first time when I was 10. Yes, 10. I started reading it to show off. I have read that book 7 or 8 times easy.
Fuck Brian Herbert for writing crap that I feel I have to read to show loyalty to some fucking dead guy I never met.
Wow, that got me worked up a bit.
"well she's either a cruel horny bitch or she might actually like you." - audreythirteen
[QUOTE=trypdwyre]i'm saying, why does the variety of other's literary interests bother you in a society where nearly a third of it's adult population are nearly illiterate? you'd think you'd get more pissed at the people who read nothing as opposed to those who read something you consider to be a bad literary choice.
and your personal diversity of literature does not mean that you personally can function in a society, in fact i'd say you can't function socially except in the places you enjoy. relax a little, don't shun everyone else because they don't like the exact things you do.[/QUOTE]
trpyd makes good sense here. I read all kinds of fantastic well respected literature, but if I could get a long with polite society I wouldn't posting here. Maybe the ones to blame are the readers. Hell, we make illiterate people uncomfortable. We should take classic lit out of school and replace it with the Stars Wars Compendium to make reading more accessible.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=joeyjojojrshabadoo]trpyd makes good sense here. I read all kinds of fantastic well respected literature, but if I could get a long with polite society I wouldn't posting here. Maybe the ones to blame are the readers. Hell, we make illiterate people uncomfortable. We should take classic lit out of school and replace it with the Stars Wars Compendium to make reading more accessible.[/QUOTE]
there is a place for classic literature, and well written literature. that does not take away the fact that we all read junk from time to time. the "junk" and the "knock-offs" are still literature. no one's saying we shold teach poorly written literature, but let's not go so far as to condemn the people that consume that poorly written literature. who are you to decide what's allowable reading?
and that still is beside the fact that at least those people are reading recreationally.
I can't say what is allowable reading, but somebody does. Whoever "these" people are they have decided what a lot of people read. Mark Twain was considered too controversial, so they decided to yank Huckleberry Finn off school shelves because it had outdated racial epithets in it.
I say accept no tinkering with the books. There are written and meant to be read. It takes a hell of a lot of effort to write a book. No matter if it's fluff or not, finishing a book is an accomplishment. So even if these "authors" are copying, stealing ideas, finishing a book ain't easy. So somebody should read this shit. Not me though... someone else do it.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=bassplr19]So you are saying that we should respect people that can read and speak Kligon? I don't think so. Just because they can read and understand all things ST, SW, or LotR does not mean that these people can function in society, in fact most of these "nerds" cannot function socially except at tradeshows.[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with having a hobby? And who says that people who speaks Kligon belong in the same basket of "nerds" and social dysfunction?
[QUOTE=bboymute]What's wrong with having a hobby? And who says that people who speaks Kligon belong in the same basket of "nerds" and social dysfunction?[/QUOTE]
Do you speak Klingon? Or are you a trekie?
Just some harless ribbing... 
*Directed at everybody*
I agree that people shouldn't be bashed for reading something because we don't consider it great literature. I mean, just look in the book club at the book Shella - some people loved the book, and other's hated it.
Or just take a look around here. "Classics" that you just couldn't get into - some of the same books some people said they hated and couldn't finish, other people said were their favorite books.
It's all opinions. And my opinion is as long as people are reading, then all is good. Let's bitch about our younger bros or sisters who we can't get to pick up a book and read. That seems like a better use of my complaining time.
[QUOTE=PGoutis01]*Directed at everybody*
I agree that people shouldn't be bashed for reading something because we don't consider it great literature. I mean, just look in the book club at the book Shella - some people loved the book, and other's hated it.
Or just take a look around here. "Classics" that you just couldn't get into - some of the same books some people said they hated and couldn't finish, other people said were their favorite books.
It's all opinions. And my opinion is as long as people are reading, then all is good. Let's bitch about our younger bros or sisters who we can't get to pick up a book and read. That seems like a better use of my complaining time.[/QUOTE]
Well said...
rsarao
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So the man from Detriot Geeks......whoah, sorry, greeks. you chould make that banner bigger, says "as long as people are reading then all is good." This is a good and proper statement. How do we get more people to read? Well, we throw trite shit at them. It's easily read, and teaches them nothing. I find it hard to accept that it doesn't matter what you read. It is important what you read. reading and writing have been around long enough that people should making personal, philisophical, and other judgements about what they read. It is a personal choice. It was already stated in this thread that we all read "junk". Hell, right now I am watching a Hollywood adaptation of tolkien's the Two Towers, this isn't challening my view of the world, but it's entertaining as fuck.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=PGoutis01]Do you speak Klingon? Or are you a trekie?[/QUOTE]
No, I do not. I don't even know how Klingons look like. Star Treks' never been my sort of entertainment, but what I do find interesting is its obsessed fans, with all the dress-ups and the speaking of languages.
[QUOTE=bboymute]No, I do not. I don't even know how Klingons look like. Star Treks' never been my sort of entertainment, but what I do find interesting is its obsessed fans, with all the dress-ups and the speaking of languages.[/QUOTE]
Some might say you are obsessed with Matt Groening's art....
No offense. As funny and junk as the Simpsons are, they actually have something to say about the world we live in. I.E North America, for those of us over there. So instead of reading Star Wars and calling it crap, try reading along the lines of a Dune novel. Extrapolate world circumstances from the current. Ask what the "junk" is trying to say about future confrontations compared to current ones, because the current ones are all they have to go on.
Bad book, good book arguments can go on forever. Still, not many people have written a book at all.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
Yes, I most definitly am a fan of Matt Groening/Simpsons/Futurama.
If you're refering to me about reading Star Wars, well, I don't read Star Wars books. Not beacause I think they're craps or anything but it's just not something I am interested in. But I agree about what you said.
Nah I weren't reffering to you bboymute, so as long as we all agree on this... it looks like we do though. Maybe we don't all realise the value of Pulp Fiction, but it is here and it's gonna stay. We could compare these things forever, Like, say Sin City comics are great comics, but are they socially relevant. What if Sin City were a novel? Would it be as valuable? What if Star Trek were a social course in University? Hard to say, wait and see...
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
I do want to clear up something else...
Most of us did start off by reading "crap" writing - I only refer to it that way because that seems to be the norm in this thread. Some of our first books were the Goosebump series by R.L. Stine and other books like that. We have children picking up the Olson Twin books as soon as they are released. The downside is that they are reading books that are just... well, you know. The good side is, as long as they are reading these things, hopefully they will eventually graduate to something else - maybe something that we would consider great literature. But, then again, it just might end up being a Star Wars book.
Either way, I wish I could get my one brother (I have two) and my cousins to start reading more. And I don't just sit around and complain - I started a book club last month and got a lot of people who don't normally read to start. How did I reel them in? I sent them all copies of the story "Guts" and told them that not all writing is boring. It's all about filling the void of what people want to read.
Ah, Goosebump series...
I think that series was one of the reason why I didn't read as a kid and my teenage years.
Our school library had big collection of Goosebump series and other kiddy books that looked equally horrible.
[QUOTE=bboymute]Ah, Goosebump series...
I think that series was one of the reason why I didn't read as a kid and my teenage years.
Our school library had big collection of Goosebump series and other kiddy books that looked equally horrible.[/QUOTE]
The Bible was the first book I ever read. don't get much morepop-cult than that though does it? I saw Goosebumps in the supermarket I cleaned as a teeneager, but I never read it. After all the violence, incest, sabotage and natural disasters in the Bible, how could R. L Stine compete. (Was that the author's name? If so, it's the only one I've corrrectly quoted on this site so far.)
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=joeyjojojrshabadoo]I saw Goosebumps in the supermarket I cleaned as a teeneager, but I never read it. After all the violence, incest, sabotage and natural disasters in the Bible, how could R. L Stine compete. (Was that the author's name? If so, it's the only one I've corrrectly quoted on this site so far.)[/QUOTE]
Congratulations on giving the right author credit this time, but it was only a matter of looking up a few post.
And, check this out - there's a box set for all you junkies that need your Goosebump fix... they are "sure to make you scream!"
[center][URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0439561302/qid=1100312452/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0052766-6308871?v=glance&s=books][IMG]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0439561302.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/center]
Goosebumps were the first books i ever started reading, back in Grade 2. I would read one a night alot of the time, until I got tired of them and they got repetitive. In Grade 3 I got hooked on the Hardy Boys and Narnia series, and read those through the end of grade 3 to Grade 4. It gave me a background in reading, and by the end of Grade 4 I was beginning to think I could write better than Hardy boys Books. They taught me about plot, R.L stine taught me just about books, paragraphs, chapters, suprise endings and so on. Narnia taught me to create my own worlds, ideals and types of characters. In Grade 5 i got hooked on the Redwall series and STar Wars books. I read one kind, and than the other, switichign types, so it stayed fresher. I remember I read Mattemio (sp?) in the Redwall series in one night. From 5 till 2 or so in the morning. It was around 450 pages. These books were long, descriptive (sometimes to the extreme) and hade large castsa of characters, as well as humour. They also werent happy ending books, and taught me we all dont go over the rainbow singing tra la lala . (Goosebumps tuaght me that too, along with Narnia). I than got hooked on Stephen king, Cricthon, Clancy, And the HArry Potter Series (it was a fun series) etc. while I was in Grade 7 till 9. In Grade 10 i focused more on King. When I finally reached grade 11, I was more into classics, literature, hell i even liked shakespare. (Othello is great). And than i found Chuck, at the end of Grade 11. So now im 17, and I read pretty much just literature, real books, but I have a strong background in reading, and I know I can write better than alot of what Ive read. But its a gradual progression. You cant go from reading Goosebumps one day, to reading Faulkner the next. Its all gradual.
And some people just arent readers. They dont like it, they mentally cant handle it, and thats fine. Do we really want everybody being able to read? Should everyone have the same interests? So what if they read crap. As long as YOU KNOW, what is good, thats fine.
Sometimes its better not to be serious, not to take everything "to the next level"
So get off your high horse and realize that people will read whatever they want, and that6 you work on the same principle. To make a difference, spread the word about what is good, and what is crap.Tell people what you like, and why. Give them copies, if they are clsoe freinds, and get them hooked. Thats how i got my freind Dan into reading again. He was really into Rage Against The Machine, so I gave him 1984, than Fight Club, than a CLockwork Orange, than Survivor and so on and so forth (i lent them, he bought his own copies) I got him to read again and he loves it now. Not everyone can write a book, and not everyone will read one either.
Think of all the bored house wives, who read Danielle Steele or romance novels which are nothing more than soft-core porn in literary form, with a weak plot line. Think of all those childrens books a deaf and blind man could write better, think of all the shit out there. Why do they keep pumping it out? Because thaths only how far many peopel can strech their minds. They cant strtch their imagination any further. its either to hard or to scary for them. They are too lazy to. And you cant force them.
Realize that we are a minority. And be proud you are part of that minority.
(And whatever ass said pulp fiction sucks... or they dont get it... :confused:
.... JUST LAY OFF CUZ
And right now I'm a race car and you got me in the red. I'm just saying that it's fuckin' dangerous to have a racecar in the fuckin' red. It could blow.
I'm a mushroom-cloud-layin' motherfucker, motherfucker! Every time my fingers touch brain I'm "SUPERFLY T.N.T", I'm the "GUNS OF THE NAVARONE".
O word.
just joking....
motherfucker... )
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"... got this store bought way of saying I'm ok..."
Man I love race cars, they remind of mushrooms and Navarone... damn, once again I've ripped off an author and can't remember their name. Oh well, I'll just chalk it up to another original idea.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
T.S. Eliot again?
hahaha
or Quintein?
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"... got this store bought way of saying I'm ok..."
[QUOTE=MockyMockins]T.S. Eliot again?
hahaha
or Quintein?[/QUOTE]
Hey I said ORIGINAL idea. elliot ain't getting any credit for this atrocious rip-off.
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
Nice post Mockins... for reals.
[QUOTE=PGoutis01]Nice post Mockins... for reals.[/QUOTE]
thanks
[IMG]http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/fan/workshop/topdogs/Junior_copy_editor_MockyMockins.gif[/IMG][URL=http://chuckpalahniuk.net/community/forumdisplay.php?f=210][IMG]http://img68.exs.cx/img68/5013/stanzasociety6iw.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
"... got this store bought way of saying I'm ok..."
[QUOTE=MockyMockins]thanks :)[/QUOTE]
Can anyone tell me how to get the sarcasm face to come up in my posts?
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=joeyjojojrshabadoo]Can anyone tell me how to get the sarcasm face to come up in my posts?[/QUOTE]
that time it wasnt sarcasm
try this
[/sarcasm]
but put a question mark after sarcasm. Should work :eek:
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"... got this store bought way of saying I'm ok..."
[QUOTE=MockyMockins]that time it wasnt sarcasm
try this
[/sarcasm]
but put a question mark after sarcasm. Should work :eek:[/QUOTE]
Man, everyone here is so helpful (sarcasm?)
You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow.
[QUOTE=PGoutis01]I do want to clear up something else...
Most of us did start off by reading "crap" writing - I only refer to it that way because that seems to be the norm in this thread. Some of our first books were the Goosebump series by R.L. Stine and other books like that. We have children picking up the Olson Twin books as soon as they are released. The downside is that they are reading books that are just... well, you know. The good side is, as long as they are reading these things, hopefully they will eventually graduate to something else - maybe something that we would consider great literature. But, then again, it just might end up being a Star Wars book.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was thinking. I got my start in reading around first and second grade with the Goosebumps books, upgraded to Animorphs in fourth and fifth grade, and actually began reading those Star Wars novels for a couple years. Got out of those around seventh grade and started reading Stephen King which led to Micheal Crichton which eventually led to Chuck and from there everything has opened up.
Everyone starts out reading utter shit and many are happy with it. I've lent out a copy of the Da Vinci Code to I don't know how many people and while I don't think it's anything amazing it's gotten them into other, deeper books and into researching the Catholic Church and its historical foibles.
And stating that people can't ahve there little worlds to themselves is just stupid. If people want to be trekkies and LotR freaks let them. It gives them something to do. Do you watch anything relating to anime or read comic books? Because if you do then your just as much a geek in the eyes of most people. I get flak from my friends for loving Futurama and a lot of videogames like The Legend of Zelda. Everyone has there little thing that someone else doesn't get.
Though I don't much care for spin-offs, sequels and repetitive genre crap, I am very glad it exists. Without all the things bassplr19 mentioned, we wouldn’t have access to more quality material.
All those Star Wars spin-offs, LoTR rip-offs, shitty romance novels and repetitive Tom Clancy bullshit keep the book industry in business. They provide a stable base income for retailers and publishers. Without that base income, a publisher would not be able to take a risk on someone like Chuck (or Danielewski, or any other of numerous great writers), and the retailer would not be able to take a risk.
Take a look at the small, independent presses like 2.13.61 or Soft Skull Press. Though great companies with skilled writers, they are very, very small. Chances are the top distributed books by 2.13.61 have about the same number of copies as a sophomore novel from a near-unknown author at Bantam of Harper-Collins. The small companies can’t absorb the risk of pushing a flop.
I’m not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing. I like my small independent publishers and bookstores, and my esoteric authors. I don’t like the majority of mass-produced drivel I see at Barnes & Noble. On the other hand, I’m really glad Barnes & Noble is around to sling enough trash to keep the publishing business going.
[QUOTE=Capo]Though I don't much care for spin-offs, sequels and repetitive genre crap, I am very glad it exists. Without all the things bassplr19 mentioned, we wouldn’t have access to more quality material.
All those Star Wars spin-offs, LoTR rip-offs, shitty romance novels and repetitive Tom Clancy bullshit keep the book industry in business. They provide a stable base income for retailers and publishers. Without that base income, a publisher would not be able to take a risk on someone like Chuck (or Danielewski, or any other of numerous great writers), and the retailer would not be able to take a risk.
Take a look at the small, independent presses like 2.13.61 or Soft Skull Press. Though great companies with skilled writers, they are very, very small. Chances are the top distributed books by 2.13.61 have about the same number of copies as a sophomore novel from a near-unknown author at Bantam of Harper-Collins. The small companies can’t absorb the risk of pushing a flop.
I’m not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing. I like my small independent publishers and bookstores, and my esoteric authors. I don’t like the majority of mass-produced drivel I see at Barnes & Noble. On the other hand, I’m really glad Barnes & Noble is around to sling enough trash to keep the publishing business going.[/QUOTE]
2.13.61 is a great press -- i've got 4-5 books. nick cave's "and the ass saw the angel" is one of my favorite books.
rsarao
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Consumer by Gira is another excellent piece of work. My girlfriend sent them her resume when she got out of college. Rollins sent her a hand written letter saying that she was qualified, but if he hired her there wouldn't be much work other than taking out the trash, and that would cut in on his job.
Awesome.
[QUOTE=Capo]Consumer by Gira is another excellent piece of work. My girlfriend sent them her resume when she got out of college. Rollins sent her a hand written letter saying that she was qualified, but if he hired her there wouldn't be much work other than taking out the trash, and that would cut in on his job.
Awesome.[/QUOTE]
Definitely -- I think I've mentioned that one before either on this forum or WCB's. I've read this collection twice. It made me feel kinda evil after reading it. Powerful way with words, that Gira.
rsarao
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This is not an exit.
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[QUOTE=PGoutis01]It's all opinions. And my opinion is as long as people are reading, then all is good. Let's bitch about our younger bros or sisters who we can't get to pick up a book and read. That seems like a better use of my complaining time.[/QUOTE]
I actually do try to get people to read, I bought 2 copies of Lullaby for $4.98 a peice to give to people at Christmas.
I got my ex-roommate to read a book, and that's a huge accomplishment. Albiet, it was not edumacational, but it was 500 pages of original material. Speaking of which, if you want to read a funny, entertaining book, pick up Youth In Revolt by C.D. Payne.
The reason I like Chuck's books are because you can learn something from them, like how to get blood stains out of carpet(Survivor, just finished it a second time last night). Read a Tom Clancy novel, you can learn about real esipionage stuff, real weapons, and the such, reading a Michael Crichton novel you can learn about the physics behind time travel and nanotechnology. Reading a Star Trek novel spinoff, learning Klingon, you don't learn about anything REAL, except about your imaginary world. On the other hand, I'd rather read a Star Trek spinoff novel then romance novel GARBAGE. That shit is a dime a dozen.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
[QUOTE=bassplr19]I actually do try to get people to read, I bought 2 copies of Lullaby for $4.98 a peice to give to people at Christmas.
I got my ex-roommate to read a book, and that's a huge accomplishment. Albiet, it was not edumacational, but it was 500 pages of original material. Speaking of which, if you want to read a funny, entertaining book, pick up Youth In Revolt by C.D. Payne.
The reason I like Chuck's books are because you can learn something from them, like how to get blood stains out of carpet(Survivor, just finished it a second time last night). Read a Tom Clancy novel, you can learn about real esipionage stuff, real weapons, and the such, reading a Michael Crichton novel you can learn about the physics behind time travel and nanotechnology. Reading a Star Trek novel spinoff, learning Klingon, you don't learn about anything REAL, except about your imaginary world. On the other hand, I'd rather read a Star Trek spinoff novel then romance novel GARBAGE. That shit is a dime a dozen.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I did just what you did and bought four copies of Lullaby. I've handed three out around campus and I'm still waiting to find someone who would like the last copy.
About your idea that you can learn, I actually learned a lot from Sphere and the subsequent research I did after reading it about the physics of time and space. Some really interesting stuff if you can wrap your head around it. The rest of his books were a lot less scientific but still have some interesting info.
That was a great post, mockins. Cept for that part about books a deaf and blind man could write better, because helen keller came to mind :rolleyes:
my original post in the other thread, the post that was re-quoted at the start of this thread, i didnt mean for it to come across in the caustic way that it reads. in my mind, as i typed it, the voice was a series of humorous thoughts. that came out as heated. sorry. but my basic thoughts were still present:
maybe you dont like romance novels. maybe you dont appreciate star wars novels. maybe you loathe star treck novels, which i agree with ardently. personally, i never liked clancy or grisham or other such writers. but they bring many readers to the table. maybe you cant converse deeply with the readers of those books about a huxleys a brave new world, but maybe someday you would.
i know that my add made it nearly impossible to read in the first place, but i knew that i needed to read more. some. so i got into the star wars books and found that after multiple tries that i could submerge my self in the story. later on i started to notice narration as a living breathing animal. and never knew til this year that i myself wanted to write. lord knows i have experiences deep within my darkened soul that are both exciting and horrific. as for the writing, that all started with a star wars spin off. and since then i have come to appreciate stronger works. the informative and the humorous and ...
i too passed out four clearance copies of lullaby to people that religiously read clancy and browns code and mary h clark and proclaim (literally) to love to read et cetera. who knows what those four friends will be buying next year. who knows what kind of books theyll be buying next year as gifts to friends and family.
what i know is this: bringing as many readers to the table helps me in the long run if i do ever become an author. so yeah, if i know a kid that wants to read, ill recommend a star wars book. it would probably be more helpful to that kid than a five hundred page novel.
i just imagined myself as that kid: a star wars novel in my hand, thinking about how thick two-hundred and fifty pages is, wondering if i could accomplish the goal, thinking now if instead i'd tried to pick up ellis american psycho and try to tackle that read....
:i shudder at the thought: :cool:
kabol
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play hard, like it's work to be done.
[QUOTE=JKabol]That was a great post, mockins. Cept for that part about books a deaf and blind man could write better, because helen keller came to mind :rolleyes:
my original post in the other thread, the post that was re-quoted at the start of this thread, i didnt mean for it to come across in the caustic way that it reads. in my mind, as i typed it, the voice was a series of humorous thoughts. that came out as heated. sorry. but my basic thoughts were still present:
maybe you dont like romance novels. maybe you dont appreciate star wars novels. maybe you loathe star treck novels, which i agree with ardently. personally, i never liked clancy or grisham or other such writers. but they bring many readers to the table. maybe you cant converse deeply with the readers of those books about a huxleys a brave new world, but maybe someday you would.
i know that my add made it nearly impossible to read in the first place, but i knew that i needed to read more. some. so i got into the star wars books and found that after multiple tries that i could submerge my self in the story. later on i started to notice narration as a living breathing animal. and never knew til this year that i myself wanted to write. lord knows i have experiences deep within my darkened soul that are both exciting and horrific. as for the writing, that all started with a star wars spin off. and since then i have come to appreciate stronger works. the informative and the humorous and ...
i too passed out four clearance copies of lullaby to people that religiously read clancy and browns code and mary h clark and proclaim (literally) to love to read et cetera. who knows what those four friends will be buying next year. who knows what kind of books theyll be buying next year as gifts to friends and family.
what i know is this: bringing as many readers to the table helps me in the long run if i do ever become an author. so yeah, if i know a kid that wants to read, ill recommend a star wars book. it would probably be more helpful to that kid than a five hundred page novel.
i just imagined myself as that kid: a star wars novel in my hand, thinking about how thick two-hundred and fifty pages is, wondering if i could accomplish the goal, thinking now if instead i'd tried to pick up ellis american psycho and try to tackle that read....
:i shudder at the thought: :cool:
kabol
.[/QUOTE]
I am very happy they helped you, some people they won't help and will continue to read strictly SW/ST/LotR novels
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
[QUOTE=bassplr19]I am very happy they helped you, some people they won't help and will continue to read strictly SW/ST/LotR novels[/QUOTE]I still think your reaching for poor assumptions for five thousand.
Look, LOTR doesnt have a following of retarded people with nothing better to do with their time.
Ill put it a different way: Dennis, this site's main guru and webmaster, is not a bumbling idiot. In fact, he's a very sharp cat. We can both agree that he is more than likely well read. If you arent sure, look at his list of recommendations: he has a whole part of the site dedicated to just that--just between he and a few friends. And the thing of the matter is, LOTR is like his Holy Bible.
I dont know, you seem to have these opinions about spinoffs or whatever and they arent grounded and i cant agree with you because i dont feel that you know what you are talking about
not to be mean, but thats how i see it in this thread
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play hard, like it's work to be done.
[QUOTE=Capo]All those Star Wars spin-offs, LoTR rip-offs, shitty romance novels and repetitive Tom Clancy bullshit keep the book industry in business. They provide a stable base income for retailers and publishers. Without that base income, a publisher would not be able to take a risk on someone like Chuck (or Danielewski, or any other of numerous great writers), and the retailer would not be able to take a risk.[/quote]
This is only partially true. When Stephen King sells xxxxx copies and makes xxxxx millions for the publishing company, they don’t have board meeting and say, “Hey, let’s look into some young talent”, they just reinvest it back into King and then trying to find “the next King”.
The same with the music industry, and obviously in Hollywood.
It’s sad but true: mediocrity breeds mediocrity.
If the unfathomable record sales of a Nelly really got some execs to say, “Hey, let’s sign and record some jazz bands!”, the world would be a better place.
Instead, you’ll just get more Nelly and ‘the next Nelly’. Yo.
On topic:
I can’t say I have real opinion of spin-off books. It’s pretty much always been done.
Take, for example, the most read book in the world: _the Bible_, chock full of stories based on quasi-fictional (at best) characters over centuries of time by countless authours.
The continuation of Baum’s Oz (as in ‘The Wonderful Wizard of’) series was pretty good, and then some years ago someone wrote a one-off from the wicked witch’s point of view (didn’t read it).
Over the years how many have carried on the tales of Spider-Man, Superman and Batman? Probably thousands of writers and artists.
Many of Shakespeare’s characters & stories are hardly original.
And for you writers out there taking an already established character and writing him/her/them can be a pretty god exercise. It teaches you to really look at what a great writer has established within their character. One of the better stories I wrote in Uni was a ‘continuation’ on Flannery O’Conner’s “A Good Man is Hard to Find”. The character of The Misfit was fun to play with.
But it also runs into the area of literary sacrilege. I couldn’t care less, but I recall hoopla when the _Gone With the Wind_ ‘sequel’ was coming out. And now someone is carrying on with Puzo’s _Godfather_ thing, and Chabon’s new novel is supposedly featuring Sherlock Holmes (but he’s never named)…but if someone tried to carry on a Faulkner character (or anyone else that I, personally, cherish) I’d be a bit miffed.
I, however, find little merit in someone being praised just because they are the son (or any family member) carrying the series on. This makes no sense to me, as writing or creativity of any kind has not been proven to be a genetic carry-over. And just the simple fact that junior, as a baby, was sitting in his nappies (diapers, if you prefer) shitting himself while dad was in the next room typing away holds no merit with me.
So if someone really feels the need to read the _Jar-Jar Binks: Philosopher of Our Times?_…good for them. I sincerely believe they wouldn’t be reading anything “good” if they weren’t reading that.
j(ay)
that would pretty much piss me off
as for nelly, whom i cant stand to hear without gritting my teeth to powder and pain, he does bring an opening for many indy slash underground cats that the industry wouldnt normally take a chance on
but nelly made so and so company a lot of money so a few other companies will branch out and try different things. kinda like when chuck tried to pub his first two novels to no success, there was just nothing else like it out at the time and no way to market it. but i have to acknowledge that since the fight club success there had to have been a door opened for at least a few of the off the wall semi extreme novels to hit the publishing market
this kinda goes off the subject of spinoffs, so i will point out that if in fact [i]tyler takes manhatten[/i] ever is a published book, i wont buy it 
kabol
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play hard, like it's work to be done.
[QUOTE=JKabol]…since the fight club success there had to have been a door opened for at least a few of the off the wall semi extreme novels to hit the publishing market[/QUOTE]
Yes, the publishers are looking for “the next _Fight Club_”; they’re not looking to break literary ground.
That’s why I said Capo was only “partially correct”…it all kinda comes full circle. Not that’s it’s as nicely shaped as a circle…shall we try to coin a new phrase? Full oval? Full Hexagon?
Now knock it off or I’ll make more Nelly references 
j(ay)
[QUOTE=JKabol]this kinda goes off the subject of spinoffs, so i will point out that if in fact [i]tyler takes manhatten[/i] ever is a published book, i wont buy it
kabol[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what my whole rant was about.
P.S. I can't stand Nelly either and wish someone would put him out of his misery.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
[QUOTE=JKabol]I still think your reaching for poor assumptions for five thousand.
Look, LOTR doesnt have a following of retarded people with nothing better to do with their time.
Ill put it a different way: Dennis, this site's main guru and webmaster, is not a bumbling idiot. In fact, he's a very sharp cat. We can both agree that he is more than likely well read. If you arent sure, look at his list of recommendations: he has a whole part of the site dedicated to just that--just between he and a few friends. And the thing of the matter is, LOTR is like his Holy Bible.
I dont know, you seem to have these opinions about spinoffs or whatever and they arent grounded and i cant agree with you because i dont feel that you know what you are talking about
not to be mean, but thats how i see it in this thread[/QUOTE]
I never said there was anything wrong with LotR or the Hobbit for that matter, I'm just saying the LotR spinoff's are wrong. I own all three LotR books, and I'm not ashamed. Anything J.R.R. Tolkien wrote spinning off the LotR is fine because they are his characters, his world. Everything jay said is about what I'm saying.
Think for yourself. Question Authority.
The worst 'ripoff' series I've seen is the people who began writing within Asimov's Foundation universe. I've read three of these books, and only one didn't make me blind with rage. They were so poorly written, I was insulted for Asimov that his name was attached to it. They used his characters, made them do things that I don't think he would have done, and is almost written in a completely different style. In this case, I don't think that people should be allowed to just add onto series or into them without the original author's permission.
With the Dune books, at least it was his father's work. I didn't hate the books, and they're not written within the same time as his fathers, so I don't really have a problem with them. When it comes to Star Trek, I figure they're fair game, as with the episodes, there is a new writer for each one.
I guess that some people just can't create their own characters and stories, so they use someone else's.
well, I can't defend star trek and such, but a lot of the LotR stuff was finisehd by J R R's son, Christopher Tolkien, and they worked to gether on a lot of the stuff before J R R died. A lot of the books were written without the intention of publishing, but, because of J R R's friendship with C S Lewis, Charles Williams and the rest of The Inklings, he finished and published much LotR on their prompting. The Inklings account for a great body of literature from many different genres that probably wouldn't have surfaced without each other. but I digress....
as for the rest of it, I wholeheartedly agree. Especially with the star wars stuff. I think it'd be good if people would broaden their horizons a bit. Maybe are huge fans and have permission to write tat stuff, but it's ittle more that fan lit to me, and I say the same thing goes for the authors. The spinoff writers should broaden their horizons a bit.
But, the people who buy this stuff is who keeps the spinoffs alive, I can't blame it on an overzealous fan who begins writing spinoffs and makes money off it. There is a market for it, unfortuanately.... stupid people.
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