a quick clockwork orange question...

Never mentioned in the book. In the movie it's Alexander DeLarge. (He does call himself Alexander The Large in the book, though.) Also, in the newspaper his dad is reading it's Alexander Burgess, which is of course a nifty reference to the author of the book.

excellent. Thanks a bunch solle. I knew I could count on you guys. At the moment we're putting make-up on my girl roommate. oh, it's hideous. HAHA. thank's again.

I remember that pervy guy calling him [I]Little Alex.[/I] I love that movie. Does anyone else find Malcolm McDowell really sexy? (see 'If...' also.) If I've got enough money one day, I'll open a really pretentious milk bar like the one they go to.

I'll sooo be there...at your milk bar.

McDowell is great. I've seen most of his movies... fell asleep during Caligula, though.

Anyone else seen "Disturbed'?

I only found out the other day where the title came from. It's a Cockney phrase 'queer as a clockwork orange', that being the queerest thing imaginable.

anybody read anything else by burgess? i read clockwork, and i own the wanting seed, but i haven;t read it yet. any recs?

Honey For The Bears is good stuff. His other books are [i]way[/i] pretentious. Mezzoforte (MF) is just plain stupid, and The Wanting Seed isn't even well-written.

huh, the wanting seed is popular, though, right? wonder why. does he make up language in his other stories?

Yeah, he makes up language a bit in most (all?) of his books, but most of the time he just uses a thesaurus if he wants to be interesting. Wanting Seed is popular 'cause it's a story about hope and betrayal and romantic shit in a futuristic setting. I really tried to like it, but eventually I gave up and skipped the last few chapters to the ending, then figured that the ending sucked ass and just went back to re-re-re-reading Clockwork.

[QUOTE=Solle]Yeah, he makes up language a bit in most (all?) of his books, but most of the time he just uses a thesaurus if he wants to be interesting. Wanting Seed is popular 'cause it's a story about hope and betrayal and romantic shit in a futuristic setting. I really tried to like it, but eventually I gave up and skipped the last few chapters to the ending, then figured that the ending sucked ass and just went back to re-re-re-reading Clockwork.[/QUOTE]

iwas htinking of re re reading clockwork, myself. haven;t read it since high school. did you find it better or worse second times around?

Clockwork just keeps getting better and better every time I read it. Also, I watch the movie at least once a year, have been doing so ever since I was nine. I'll be the first to admit it's not flawless, but it's damn close.

My dad's a bigger fan than I am, though. He has a big Clockwork movie poster right above his desk, and can easily out-quote me on any part of the book. My Nadsat is better than his, but he knows more story details. And so on.

what;s the deal with the extra chapter in American versions? i also find the movie a bit long, don;t you?

Actually, it was the UK version that was originally complete with all 21 chapters, and the American release that ended where the film stopped - at the end of chapter 20, "I was cured alright." It always felt incomplete to me until I read the final chapter.

The film seems a bit long between the second and third act. I credit/blame Kubrick.

started off strong, went into long. not like the pacing of the book at all

kubrick purposely left the last chapter out of the movie. It has to do with personal feelings of theme etc. In the movie when it ends "i have been cured" it leaves it up to you to figure where alex goes from there but in the last chapter of the book he is thinking about marriage, family, future etc and I think kubrick thought of that as reforming/compromising to what is acceptable as cultural standards. That is also the reason burgess originally made it 21 chapters 21 being the age we become "mature".

wow, i never even thought about the 21 thing

I love the book and movie. I don't think any book has ever been as well done as a movie... except Fight Club.
One of the fun things in the book is the language, which isn't exactly made up. It's based on Russian, of course. Burgess was a linguistic master and logically invented cockney rhyming slang type words with Russian roots--without explaining why, which was ominous at that time. Burgess was also a friend of Joyce and helped with Finnegans Wake linguistic research. Less laudable, he also invented the language for "Quest for Fire," the bad movie with the cavemen. He claimed that by the end of the movie, you'd understand them. Unfortunately, by the end of the movie, you didn't want to.

[QUOTE=Arcana13]I love the book and movie. I don't think any book has ever been as well done as a movie... except Fight Club.
One of the fun things in the book is the language, which isn't exactly made up. It's based on Russian, of course. Burgess was a linguistic master and logically invented cockney rhyming slang type words with Russian roots--without explaining why, which was ominous at that time. Burgess was also a friend of Joyce and helped with Finnegans Wake linguistic research. Less laudable, he also invented the language for "Quest for Fire," the bad movie with the cavemen. He claimed that by the end of the movie, you'd understand them. Unfortunately, by the end of the movie, you didn't want to.[/QUOTE]

do you see burgess influences in the books you mentioned? or didi you have to be taught by somebody?

[QUOTE=mnchch]kubrick purposely left the last chapter out of the movie. It has to do with personal feelings of theme etc. In the movie when it ends "i have been cured" it leaves it up to you to figure where alex goes from there but in the last chapter of the book he is thinking about marriage, family, future etc and I think kubrick thought of that as reforming/compromising to what is acceptable as cultural standards. That is also the reason burgess originally made it 21 chapters 21 being the age we become "mature".[/QUOTE]

I'd always read that Kubrick's version of the book simply didn't have the last chapter.

[QUOTE=snuffy]do you see burgess influences in the books you mentioned? or didi you have to be taught by somebody?[/QUOTE]
Not sure what "didi you have to be taught" meant but...
In FW, it's almost impossible to detect specific contributions, it's too convoluted in Joycespeak. I finally finished it for the first time last year, after reading bits here and there. However, there's a great book about FW, published before it was finished and while it was called "work in progress" that Burgess wrote a chapter for. Way back before Clockwork. So I'd say I see Joyce influence in what Burgess I've read.
BTW--for those bored by most non-CO Burgess, try the Enderby books. 2nd best stuff, I think.

[QUOTE=Arcana13]Not sure what "didi you have to be taught" meant but...
In FW, it's almost impossible to detect specific contributions, it's too convoluted in Joycespeak. I finally finished it for the first time last year, after reading bits here and there. However, there's a great book about FW, published before it was finished and while it was called "work in progress" that Burgess wrote a chapter for. Way back before Clockwork. So I'd say I see Joyce influence in what Burgess I've read.
BTW--for those bored by most non-CO Burgess, try the Enderby books. 2nd best stuff, I think.[/QUOTE]

didn;t mean an insult, i just wondered if you were researching this, or if you took a class in it. sorry, i'll be more clear!

[QUOTE=snuffy]didn;t mean an insult, i just wondered if you were researching this, or if you took a class in it. sorry, i'll be more clear![/QUOTE]
Not insulted, just puzzled.
I was a Joyce guy before college, then studied him and read more. Never read any Burgess, incl his Joyce stuff, for school, just for myself. FW I wrote a paper for, might again some day, but I think I'm done with it for a while, it started to make me crazy. I wrote twenty pages on three paragraphs. I'm trying to avoid that sort of analysis for the foreseeable future.

[QUOTE=Arcana13]Not insulted, just puzzled.
I was a Joyce guy before college, then studied him and read more. Never read any Burgess, incl his Joyce stuff, for school, just for myself. FW I wrote a paper for, might again some day, but I think I'm done with it for a while, it started to make me crazy. I wrote twenty pages on three paragraphs. I'm trying to avoid that sort of analysis for the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]

uk authors a specialty, huh. cool.

[QUOTE=Arcana13]I don't think any book has ever been as well done as a movie... except Fight Club.[/QUOTE]

What about Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas? In my opinion, that movie stays a lot closer to the book than the movifications of Clockwork and FC.