1984 by George Orwell

I love how morbid it is that [SPOILER] in the end, despite all the effort Winston (?) makes to resist them (I read it last year and am no longer sure who "them" is) he still gets brainwashed. And it's totally realistic because there isn't always a person there to save us from whatever unpleasant end awaits us. At the point in time that I read the book I thought of how in "The Matrix" Neo was there to save everyone as opposed to there being no such person in 1984, but then they came out with a sequel so the happy ending that Neo was destined to bring about wasn't as easy to come by; but the point is that there isn't always someone to save everyone like there is in movies.

I saw this bumper sticker today: George Orwell was only off by 20 years.

But not to take this thread off-topic on a current politics bent, 1984 is just staggering. The soul-crushing force of metropolitan, corporate, big government themes are so relevant in so many ways. The last time I read it was in the middle of a 100-day stretch of Seattle rain a few years ago. At or around the time of the WTO riots and riot cops everywhere with pepper spray and rubber bullets. It was almost enough to want what's in Room 101.

I started reading it at the beginning of the War In Iraq, when the war was broadcast on T.V. like a reality show. The whole part near the beginning of the book where Winston is watched through the "telescreen" as he sleeps, exercises, etc. had a weird connection for me with that point in the war. I kept thinking that the "telescreens" were feeding us what we knew and believed. I was also studying Philosophy that semester, so that might've had something to do with it.

[QUOTE=kennysquires]I started reading it at the beginning of the War In Iraq, when the war was broadcast on T.V. like a reality show. The whole part near the beginning of the book where Winston is watched through the "telescreen" as he sleeps, exercises, etc. had a weird connection for me with that point in the war. I kept thinking that the "telescreens" were feeding us what we knew and believed. I was also studying Philosophy that semester, so that might've had something to do with it.[/QUOTE]
Read Lullaby. Big Brother is not watching you, he's singing and dancing...

I've read Lullaby, it's great. To think that Big Brother isn't watching me seems a bit naive though, he watches everyone... he likes to watch. KCMO represent. Moaning Lisa is Kansas City's best band.

[QUOTE=kennysquires]I've read Lullaby, it's great. To think that Big Brother isn't watching me seems a bit naive though, he watches everyone... he likes to watch. KCMO represent. Moaning Lisa is Kansas City's best band.[/QUOTE]
To invoke the mighty Chuck P., you don't have to like your characters or even believe what they say, you just have to make a case for them.

Oyster is full of shit, he'd get along well with Jello Biafra and the other Earth First! nimrods. But he makes his case.

Same thing with Streater's take on Big Brother. High speed internet, 130 channels of satellite TV, Clear Channel, etc., these things do more to keep people complacent about the status quo than any governmental action.

Lots of folks are like, I'm pissed off about the Patriot Act, but I really have to watch this Orange County Chopper guy...

[QUOTE=Chixulub]To invoke the mighty Chuck P., you don't have to like your characters or even believe what they say, you just have to make a case for them.

Oyster is full of shit, he'd get along well with Jello Biafra and the other Earth First! nimrods. But he makes his case.

Same thing with Streater's take on Big Brother. High speed internet, 130 channels of satellite TV, Clear Channel, etc., these things do more to keep people complacent about the status quo than any governmental action.

Lots of folks are like, I'm pissed off about the Patriot Act, but I really have to watch this Orange County Chopper guy...[/QUOTE]
Most people are sheep.

1984 is one of the most beautiful books I have ever read...and the principles of "Newspeak" are just brilliant :eek:

[QUOTE=the bride]1984 is one of the most beautiful books I have ever read...and the principles of "Newspeak" are just brilliant :eek:[/QUOTE]
Little did Orwell know, not only was he accurately reporting the worst abuses of the Stalin regime, but he also completely nailed the Bush Administration's approach to Public Relations.

BTW, if you dig "1984" & "Animal Farm," you gotta read Huxley's "Brave New World."

[QUOTE=Chixulub]BTW, if you dig "1984" & "Animal Farm," you gotta read Huxley's "Brave New World."[/QUOTE]
Seconded. Though I will always slightly prefer 1984 (simply because I read it first, and also Orwell's style does a little more for me) "Brave New World" is definately an excellent book, belonging on one of those "Books everyone should have read" type lists.

I was quite disappointed when he was broken. But it's true, what can you really do. Oh my god, we can vote. Vote for what, all we'd be doing is trading one idiot/asshole/liar/looking out for his own interests person for the other.

In Milwaukee, we got Russ Darrow, the owner of like 5+ car dealerships running for the senate, obviously republican. I do not want a guy that is more than likely not going to care about the environment, for his own benifit in office.

Sorry to go off on a political rant.

I read this twice in the 8th grade and loved it. But not really for the subversive, cliche, "THIS is why the government is bad!" sort of thing. I liked it just as a novel and a love story. Forbidden love always give me a bonah.

Vote Badnarik for President. If Bush or Kerry wins you lose.

My thread has risen from the ashes to live again; how great. Now remember kids, we're all in great hands (ha!) under another four years with a leader who endorses a "conservative philosophy." The most gripping part of the RNC was Ahhnold trying to say "4 more years."

The most 'gripping' part was Arnold saying Nixon inspired him to be a Republican. That's like saying you became a Democrat because it's the party founded by Jackosn and you were touched by the Trail of Tears.

1984 is cool

if it was written now i wouldnt like it,

i dont know why it just seems to be cliche to hate the world and think everything is against you trying to enslave you in modern times

but for someone to come upon that idea in 1949 is amazing

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[QUOTE=phlegmatics]1984 is cool

if it was written now i wouldnt like it,

i dont know why it just seems to be cliche to hate the world and think everything is against you trying to enslave you in modern times

but for someone to come upon that idea in 1949 is amazing[/QUOTE]
Huxley seems even more on-the-money.

Makes you wonder if Max Barry is a prophet...

"Old George Orwell got it backward. Big Brother isn't watching. He's singing and dancing.Big Brother's holding your attention every moment you're awake. He's making sure you're fully absorbed... and this being fed, it's worse than being watched. With the world always filling you, no one has to worry about what's in your mind. With everyone's imagination atrophied, no one will ever be a threat to the world."

thats from lullaby for those who didnt know, i saw a few other quotes from Lullaby, but it think this is the most appropriate. i love this quote, i share it with everyone, you should too. or not, whatever. just dont let big brother get you to sing and dance as well. just dont.

Yeah 1984 was great, and so if you're into all that utopian society stuff I highly recomend Anthem by Ayn Rand. Great read, I highly recomend it. Short and quick too, but still really fucking good.

I have this book, a cool edition too, and once a long time ago I tried to crack it open, but things were going on in my life and I didn't get too far... Anyways, one of these days, when I'm in the right frame of mind, I'm going to give it another shot.

[QUOTE=Chixulub]if you dig "1984" & "Animal Farm," you gotta read Huxley's "Brave New World."[/QUOTE]A Brave New World is, if not my favorite book ever, it's up there. Top 5.

You may end up disappointed. I read 1984 before Brave New World, but found Huxley to be better than Orwell. After I read Brave New World it really felt like, as far as social commentary goes, Orwell was Huxley lite. 1984 is a great story though, and I'm not trying to discourage anyone from reading it. You should read it just to see what you think of Orwell vs. Huxley.

[QUOTE=sixteentimes]I read this twice in the 8th grade and loved it. But not really for the subversive, cliche, "THIS is why the government is bad!" sort of thing. I liked it just as a novel and a love story. Forbidden love always give me a bonah.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget, it's not cliche when you're the first one there.

I read Orwell's novel before Huxley's and found it to be far better. That's not to say that [U]Brave New World[/U] is bad, it just didn't live up to my expectations at the time. Since then, though, I bought a nice little hardcover copy that's got his [U]Brave New World Revisited[/U] Essays included. The essays, written a decade and a half after the book, shed a lot of new light on the book and really made me value the book.

Personally, I feel that we will end up with a mixture of these two books. We'll have the biological engineering of Huxley's world with the political climate of Orwell's. We'll essentially by a contented, distracted race that can indulge in our pleasures but will still be held down to strict governmental standards of laws involving treason, terrorism, and other acts that the Patriot Act is used for.

[QUOTE=kennysquires]It's almost cliche to say this book is cool from all the built up anti-establishment hype, but this is really a great book. It's provides the kind of food for thought that would have everyone looking over their shoulders for the "Thought Police." What I liked about it was the fact that it was written in 1949, and yet, Orwell imagined a future based on life at that time, and in more ways than one his predictions have come true. The biggest one, I believe, is the further development of agenda-oriented corperate media. Give it a read to spark paranoia.[/QUOTE]
then watch farenhiet 551 (did i get that right? NOT the moore movie the old 60'
s movie) , brazil, 12 monkeys, and fight club in that sequence.

Farenheit 451 is a great cautionary tale, too. See also Jennifer Government, Fallen Angels, etc.

The big difference with Orwell is he was a Socialist, writing cautionary tales about the dangers of Socialism in practice. Not sure about Huxley's politics, but at the time he was writing it would be difficult to imagine him not being one along with Steinbeck and so on. Almost anyone with a brain was a Socialist before it was tried. Especially given the anti-market drift of the big trusts, which made capitalists behave in much the same way. It's the whole corrupting influence of power thing.

Bradbury was not in favor of censorship in some form and writing a warning to the world about getting it wrong. And while the image of burning books & people with them is obviously a big part of it, and the marginalization to the wilderness of literature in the form of verbal storytelling, remember the guy's wife asking when they could afford another wall? The walls were televisions, and isn't that where we're headed with bigger and bigger TVs? And they don't have to burn books, because people would rather watch Survivor that read a novel by the same name...

[QUOTE=Chixulub]Farenheit 451 is a great cautionary tale, too. See also Jennifer Government, Fallen Angels, etc. [/QUOTE]

I agree with you on the need to read Fahrenheit 451, it was really good. I loved the tale of censorship gone extreme. And you're right, who will need censorship when complacency will get to us anyways.

Unfortunately, I don't agree on Jennifer Government. It's a good book and I own it but it's not that great a vision of the future. Humorous, yes, but not a truly visionary tale.

[QUOTE=dim71886]I agree with you on the need to read Fahrenheit 451, it was really good. I loved the tale of censorship gone extreme. And you're right, who will need censorship when complacency will get to us anyways.

Unfortunately, I don't agree on Jennifer Government. It's a good book and I own it but it's not that great a vision of the future. Humorous, yes, but not a truly visionary tale.[/QUOTE]
Cautionary tale. It's Max's version of a free market taken to its logical conclusion. Fallen Angels is based on the idea that the 'environmentalists' succeed in getting their dream legislation passed, and persist in it despite the onset of an ice age in lieu of global warming. Cautionary don't have to be quite realistic, they just have to be illustrative.

Everybody run out and read this book again; Even without Ashcroft we're heading toward trouble. Especially with Condey Rice taking over for Powell. Just when you hoped it was safe, Big Brother's comin' round again.