Copyright, Agent & Manuscript Questions

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gq7662
Joined: 10/17/2006
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It seems as though people on the pages I've read so far go back and forth on this. I know you guys know your stuff, so school me...

1. Should you copyright your manuscript before submitting it to an agent?

2. Is it more common to submit the entire story, or only an excerpt? If so, how do you go about selecting that excerpt?

Thank you.

brandon.tietz
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1. Should you copyright your manuscript before submitting it to an agent?

At some point, yes, you'll need to copyright your manuscript, but as far as needing to do it before you submit it to an agent: not necessarily. And remember, mailing it to yourself doesn't count. That's a common misconception. Actually do it right and take it through the copyright procedure.

2. Is it more common to submit the entire story, or only an excerpt? If so, how do you go about selecting that excerpt?

I'm going to assume that you're referring to submitting to an agent here. If so, most of the time they ask for the first one to three chapters, but all agents are different. If they ask for an excerpt, I would still send the first one to three chapters unless you're absolutely confident something from the middle works just as well as a hook.

Hope that helps,
-BT

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gq7662
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Thanks for the response. So either way, you don't send the entire manuscript, correct?

brandon.tietz
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gq7662 wrote:
Thanks for the response. So either way, you don't send the entire manuscript, correct?

Unless that's asked of you, no, you just send what's requested.

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furleyguy
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When agents or publishers see that you've copyrighted something prior to submission, it usually sends up red flags to them that you're going to be a problem, litigious, etc., so then they usually won't even want the hassle of dealing with you at all. And since that's only a draft, you'd ultimately end up with a whole bunch of copyrighted versions for the same piece.

As for submissions, you just send whatever they specifically ask for. Like BT said, it's usually the first 1-3 chapters, might be the first 10 pages. For my last book, I had a folder with about a dozen different documents from all the different types of custom things that were requested. It's always from the beginning of the book. Obviously, as writers, we know that sometimes that may not be to our benefit, demonstratively, but it's a good hard lesson to learn that those first ten pages need to be rock-fucking-solid and tell them everything they'd need to form an opinion about the tone, writing style, character, action, etc. without excuses.

Often they'll also ask for a synopsis (in which you give everything away: all twists, the ending, etc.), or occasionally even a chapter-by-chapter synopsis. I wish more people asked for the latter, because it allows them to see specifically how the plot is structured.

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vigorous puppy
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U.S. Copyright law was massively overhauled in the 1970's, mostly in ways that favor an author's rights. 

In particular:

Prior to 1978, works had to be published or registered to receive copyright protection. Upon the effective date of the 1976 Act (January 1, 1978) this requirement was removed and these works received protection despite having not been published or registered.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_copyright_law

Under the Act from 1976, and pursuant to artistic works from '78 forward, all you have to do is put something down in a tangible form (text, sound recording, etc) and stick your name on it and the Federal statute says the copyrights belong to you.

Registering your work, as Brandon points out, can be a good move, for providing that extra measure of proof and protection.  For U.S. copyright purposes, you can do that here:

www.copyright.gov

Equally, as Furlyguy points out, it's a good idea not to stamp Copyright © 2010 By So-and-So on the front page of your very serious manuscript.

With the proviso that I'm not a legal professional, I don't believe that doing so enhances your legal protections to any significant degree.  Even if you've registered through the copyright office, there isn't that much extra oomph in stickering notice to the front of your story.  What you're likely to do with any sort of aggressive notification, in the eyes of a seasoned editor or agent, is brand yourself a paranoid or a self-important amateur - as Furlyguy puts it, someone litigious and hard to work with.

Research the people, organizations, and publications where you're sending your work.  If sending to an agent, compile a list of published authors this person already represents.  Not only should you know from track record that the agent is reputable, but you should know enough about the authors he or she represents to have some sense of a "style similarity" or something else that recommends your own work as something that particular agent will be interested in.  Every agent hates big, obvioius blanket submissions addressed "To whom it may concern."  They throw that stuff away.

Having done enough research to address her by name and tell her briefly why you think your own work will hold her interest, you already know enough to presume the agent is reputable.  Reputable agents didn't get that way by risking an entire career to steal something from an unknown author.

After you've reworked your story to an agent's and editor's satisfaction, they will procure official copyright registration on your behalf.  It's part of their job.

Next:

Non-fiction is sold on platform, proposal, and brief sample.  Your platform is who you are and what you've done - like the way your seminar series that you've toured wtih in 18 states makes you qualified to be the next big self-help author.  Or the way your degree in molecular biology makes you qualified to write popular science.  Proposal is where you explain what you intend to do, who the work will appeal to, and why.  Brief sample gives some indicators of your writing style, but no one expects you to do all the research to complete a non-fiction book without winning a contract from a publisher first.  They might want one chapter plus a full tentative outline of the rest.

Fiction, on the other hand, is always sold on the strength of the writing and presumes a completed work.  You might start with a polite query letter that causes an interested agent to ask for a 30-page (or three-chapter) sample.  But if you're sending that sample, you'd better already have the whole manuscript to send in - if or when it's asked for.  You take it in dicrete, polite steps, but ultimately, fiction is sold one-hundred percent on the strength of the completed work.

Hope I've been of some help.

 

Mark Vanderpool
Writers Workshop Administrator

 

 

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matthew.odonnell
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send it to the research forum, guys!

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vigorous puppy
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matthew.odonnell wrote:
send it to the research forum, guys!

Not a bad idea. I'll leave it here for now, but we should definitely move it before the conversation peters out and the thread gets lost in the bottom of General Discussion.
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PGoutis01
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haha I almost moved it earlier. I know we've had this same discussion in there before.

I leave it to you, Mark, to move it when you think it's time.

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vigorous puppy
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I was just thinking about checking in research to see how much duplication exists on the topic. Also, when I move it I'll edit the subject line to include the word "copyright" for search engine purposes.

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matthew.odonnell
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the gods have spoken!

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If I'm fucking you, it's because I want to merge my soul with yours; regain, however briefly, the divine unity that was lost when we descended from glory and manifested into these clumsy flawed sexes.
PGoutis01
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vigorous puppy wrote:
I was just thinking about checking in research to see how much duplication exists on the topic. Also, when I move it I'll edit the subject line to include the word "copyright" for search engine purposes.

Perfect!
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188416 wrote:
Nachos, every day! Dying sounds great, I don't know why people get so upset about it.