My Challange To The Liberals

"Who said I'm against terrorism? I'm against the collapse of the United States. I'm advocating taking out a threat to the US."

What does that even matter? That's totally irrelevant to the argument. That's like someone saying you're stupid for wanting to risk your life to kill a cockroach and screaming "OH my god!! I want to kill the BEETLE! not the roach!! you idiot!!" What the fuck does it matter? Doesn't change my statement at all. Just a substitution of your enemy.

"Complete the opposite. Who's looking out for the Iraqi people? Surely not society. Who wants to look out for the Iraqi people? Liberals."

Who wants to look out for the Iraqi people? Um, weren't you advocating their liberation, etc. etc via American intervention? So... you're a liberal? Wow. Good job.

"The war is about eliminating a threat to the United States."

Iraq is not a threat to the United States.

"Hardly. The UN is a restriction of personal freedom. If the UN is a true barrier, it would have stopped the US."

Well, aren't ALL barriers a 'restriction of personal freedom'? I mean, what the fuck else would you call a barrier? A fucking INCREASE in personal freedom? A barrier is something that RESTRICTS you. Come up with all the neato definitions you want, man, it's not helping you at all.

"The conservative will not stop you from being pacifist.
The liberal WILL stop you from taking action."

So I'm stopping the soldiers from being out there right now? Oh wait, fuck, I'm not.

The conservatives ARE stopping us from being pacifist. We're at fucking war, you tit. My God, you're fucking daft.

"Is it worth sacrificing freedom to secure terrorism? With terrorism, there is no freedom. The choice has already been made."

Oh right. 9/11 has changed my life soooooooo much. Fuck you. Terrorism does not prohibit freedom. Even if it did, this is the absolute worst way to go about fighting it. You really aren't worth the effort, you've failed to come up with anything even remotely worth debating.

The only reason I continue is because it's funny. You're so inept I can't help but keep replying. Please, do continue, I can't wait to see what drivel you come up with next.

"Call me insane then maybe you can dismiss my thoughts"

Oh yes, you're soooooooo crazy. No, you're just stupid. Big difference.

"... but for God's sake, don't try and attack the logic!"

Logic? What logic? And yes. Do it for God. God WANTS you to kill them brown folk!

"Ah yes, ego is a wonderful thing, isn't it?"

You would know, wouldn't you?

"If I can help just one of you to help yourself, I will be satisfied."

Well deary me, doesn't that sound like something one of those filthy bleeding-heart [i]liberals[/i] would do? You know, help people? Fuck! Get out of here you god damn liberal scum! Scum of the earth! Scum! Fuck! Scummy scum scum-face! Out!

This thread contains at least eight times the recommended daily allowance of sophistry.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bane [/i]
[B]its just a bonus?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Of course. If the purpose of these types of wars was to eliminate opression, there would be wars all over Africa, 99% of the Middle East, most of Asia... INCLUDING CHINA! Don't fool yourself.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]should we just take out all of africa and asia while we're at it?
[/B][/QUOTE]

In the future, it's a possibility. Right now though, Africa and Asia aren't considerable threats to the US. I will tell you right now, if America is attacked on a neuclear level, Africa, the Middle East, and half of Asia will go bye-bye.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Who wants to look out for the Iraqi people? Um, weren't you advocating their liberation, etc. etc via American intervention?
[/B][/QUOTE]

No, it's just a bonus.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Iraq is not a threat to the United States.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Says who? They've invaded other countries, developed chem-bio weapons, working on neuclear weapons, will not sell oil to the US, and are resisting the occupation. Sounds like a threat to me.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Well, aren't ALL barriers a 'restriction of personal freedom'?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Not always.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]So I'm stopping the soldiers from being out there right now? Oh wait, fuck, I'm not.

The conservatives ARE stopping us from being pacifist. We're at fucking war, you tit. My God, you're fucking daft.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Conservatives aren't at all making you go to war. You're free to remain pacifist.

Liberals, on the other hand, wouldn't call up the military. They would be forced to be pacifist. I don't think they would get off scott-free if they decided to invade Iraq on their own.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Terrorism does not prohibit freedom.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Tell that to a Jew in Israel who takes the bus. Tell that to the Saudi buisnessman who gets inspected every time he goes on a flight. Tell that to the Irish Catholic man who's goal in life is to stop Northern Irish Protestants from going to their Church.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]God WANTS you to kill them brown folk!
[/B][/QUOTE]

What a liberal reply. Too bad that Iraqi's are white.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You would know, wouldn't you?
[/B][/QUOTE]

That sheilds you from answering it. And yes, I would know. I used to be like you.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Well deary me, doesn't that sound like something one of those filthy bleeding-heart liberals would do? You know, help people?
[/B][/QUOTE]

I did not say I would help you. I said I would help you to help yourself. Liberals will give the homeless man some food. The conservative approach would to educate him so he can get a job and get his own food.

"Says who? They've invaded other countries, developed chem-bio weapons, working on neuclear weapons, will not sell oil to the US, and are resisting the occupation. Sounds like a threat to me."

Resisting the occupation? Are you fucking joking? "OH SHIT! They're DEFENDING against the INVASION!" Imagine that! Christ! What an inconvenience that is! The rest is just bullshit. Invaded other countries with our PERMISSION, as I've said over, and over, and over, and over, and over. But I'm the one who's not listening. Right.

"Not always."

"bar·ri·er
n.
1. A structure, such as a fence, built to bar passage"

Yeah. Keep at it. Barriers are a RESTRICTION. That's what the fuck they are. Good lord I believe you are, in fact, retarded.

Oh wait, isn't this something a LIBERAL would do? You know, argue the meaning of a word and try to redefine it? You know, like Clinton? That filthy [i]liberal[/i]? Shit! Fuck off liberal!

"Conservatives aren't at all making you go to war. You're free to remain pacifist.

Liberals, on the other hand, wouldn't call up the military. They would be forced to be pacifist. I don't think they would get off scott-free if they decided to invade Iraq on their own."

You're taking it in two different areas. You're saying the conservative does not force me, personally, to go to war. However, the liberal forces the nation not to go to war (or tries to at least). Doesn't work that way, kiddo. Sorry.

However, the conservative HAS made people personally go to war that don't want to go to war. Remember the draft? Eh? Yeah, that spiffy little thing.

"Tell that to a Jew in Israel who takes the bus. Tell that to the Saudi buisnessman who gets inspected every time he goes on a flight. Tell that to the Irish Catholic man who's goal in life is to stop Northern Irish Protestants from going to their Church."

And spew your filth at the Palestinian in Israel who has lost his home, his family, his friends. Can't work, can't send his kids to school, can't leave his house at night because he'll be shot.

Tell it to the Iraqis who are being bombed daily. Tell it to the people all over the world that are being oppressed every day.

You get such a big fucking heart when it comes to fighting terrorism, but then you don't give a shit when we use our own brand of terrorism to fight back. You are a total fucking hypocrite. You are filth. And you're stupid, you're logic is flawed and you are terrible at debate. Fuck off with your emotional appeals. Christ, you berate liberals for being bleeding hearts, etc and not being able to make the tough decicisions but then you come right back and do just what you hate them for doing. Thank you, Mr. Hypocrite.

"What a liberal reply. Too bad that Iraqi's are white."

Oh, jesus, that hurts. It really does, gets me deep down, you know? Tearin me up, man. As far as Iraqi's being white, well, technically, with there only being 3 actual 'races', yeah, they're white. But really, I think they're more of a halfbreed. Anyhow, they're still 'brown'. You know what the fuck I mean. They're another ethnicity, so it's okay to kill as many of them as you want. Christ, just don't let a good ol' American die or a poor Israeli die. Can't stand for that shit.

"That sheilds you from answering it. And yes, I would know. I used to be like you."

Uh oh, got me there. Ha. It wasn't even directed at me, so yeah... Like me? Huh? Liberal, then, huh? But anyhow, how am I being egotistical here? I realize, I am being a bit of an ass and such, but it's just because you're incompetent, not because I think I'm great or anything. You're the one that claims you're capable of being "great" and doing what us common peasants aren't capable of doing. So, that would make you the egotistical one, oh grand redefiner of the words liberal and barrier.

"I did not say I would help you. I said I would help you to help yourself. Liberals will give the homeless man some food. The conservative approach would to educate him so he can get a job and get his own food."

That's such a cop out. "I'm not helping you, I'm helping you help your self!" Just look at the fucking sentence, "I'm helping you" is right in the middle of it! You are fucking helping! Tit! God almighty. It's like self-help books. RIght! Self-help my ass! If it was self-help you wouldn't be reading a book to get it! Come on... So should we add 'help' to the list of words you've redefined? Haha...

Oh, and being the filthy liberal that I am, I must help homeless folks out all the time? Wait, I've never given anything to a homeless person. Shit. I guess I'm not being a good liberal then, huh? I agree with you on the homeless issue - better to tech them how to make it on their own as opposed to just giving them handouts. But I'm a liberal, so I must be lying right now. I probably sneak out at night and feed homeless people or something. They call me, Bat Liberal! Beware!

wow, this is the funniest shit i've ever read. let me begin.
[QUOTE]In the future, it's a possibility. Right now though, Africa and Asia aren't considerable threats to the US. I will tell you right now, if America is attacked on a neuclear level, Africa, the Middle East, and half of Asia will go bye-bye.[/QUOTE]
iraq still isn't a threat to the US.
[QUOTE]Says who? They've invaded other countries, developed chem-bio weapons, working on neuclear weapons, will not sell oil to the US, and are resisting the occupation. Sounds like a threat to me.[/QUOTE]
well hey, we've done all those things and worse. and as for resisting occupation, who the hell wouldn't if they we're to be occupied by people who's ideals are the exact opposite of your own country's.
[QUOTE]What a liberal reply. Too bad that Iraqi's are white.[/QUOTE]
since when are peoples from the middle east white?

ok after reading all of ill richs' posts,
hes just your common asshole american

you know the type "I'm right, you're wrong"
"Our country's the best because I live here"

i was once one of these people

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Yeah. Keep at it. Barriers are a RESTRICTION. That's what the fuck they are.[/B][/QUOTE]

It's only a restriction if you're on the outside.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Remember the draft?[/B][/QUOTE]

Remember draft-dodging? Remember Ali? Those who didn't want to go to war, didn't.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]And spew your filth at the Palestinian in Israel who has lost his home, his family, his friends. Can't work, can't send his kids to school, can't leave his house at night because he'll be shot[/B][/QUOTE]

So we agree, terrorism depletes freedom?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You get such a big fucking heart when it comes to fighting terrorism, but then you don't give a shit when we use our own brand of terrorism to fight back.[/B][/QUOTE]

It is a nation's responsibility to defend it's people BY ANY MEANS NESSESARY. Know what nations didn't defend it's people by any means nessesary? Sumaria, Babylon, Ancient Ethopia, Assyria... get it? If the US must use terrorism to defend it's people, let it be so. If Palestine must use terrorism to defend it's people, let it be so. Just don't expect the victims to be happy about it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Anyhow, they're still 'brown'. You know what the fuck I mean. They're another ethnicity, so it's okay to kill as many of them as you want.[/B][/QUOTE]

Brown? Hardly. ANOTHER ethnicity? Intresting. You do consider Iraqi's arab, correct?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Like me? Huh? Liberal, then, huh?[/B][/QUOTE]

No, not liberal - but egotistical, proud, and stuck in my ways.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You are fucking helping![/B][/QUOTE]

Possibly... but the liberal forces it's "help" onto others. And the "help" really turns out to be a hook on dependance.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]well hey, we've done all those things and worse. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well hey, we're not hurting Americans! America is ALLOWED and it's responsibility is to DO WHATEVER IT TAKES, to keep it secure.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]since when are peoples from the middle east white? [/B]
[/QUOTE]

For a long time.

guys, i've said it before on the "Excitement" thread, and I'll say it again here. put ill Rich on your ignore list and follow through. it's the only way to get rid of him.

"It's only a restriction if you're on the outside."

Which we now are on, it would seem.

"Remember draft-dodging? Remember Ali? Those who didn't want to go to war, didn't."

So? Nobody's stopping you from joining the army right now. Come on, hop to it, if you're so fucking eager.

"So we agree, terrorism depletes freedom?"

To a degree, but it doesn't totally nullify it. It's not like I was [i]supporting[/i] terrorism. Of course, I was arguing more about terrorism in the US. In the US, it has had little effect outside of NY.

"It is a nation's responsibility to defend it's people BY ANY MEANS NESSESARY. Know what nations didn't defend it's people by any means nessesary? Sumaria, Babylon, Ancient Ethopia, Assyria... get it? If the US must use terrorism to defend it's people, let it be so. If Palestine must use terrorism to defend it's people, let it be so. Just don't expect the victims to be happy about it."

Except Iraq poses no threat to us. This isn't helping the situation, it's only going to make it worse. It's like getting stung by a hornet and deciding to hit the whole fucking nest with a stick. You're just going to piss them off more.

"Brown? Hardly. ANOTHER ethnicity? Intresting. You do consider Iraqi's arab, correct?"

Yeah, as opposed to American, or European, etc. You can win out on the technicality of them being the same 'race', but they are a different ethnic group than us Americans. What, is this where you come out and go "OMG I am arab! har har trixed u!"? Oh, how shocking, indeed. :rolleyes:

"No, not liberal - but egotistical, proud, and stuck in my ways."

Already explained this, you are much more egotistical than I am. You're the self-proclaimed great one that is here to show us the errors of our ways. The one that claims to be capable of making decisions we are incapable of making. Sounds pretty fucking egotistical to me. Proud? lol, okay, righto. Stuck in my ways? Hardly, you just present extremely weak arguments. I've debated with your ilk numerous times, and on occasion they have managed to persuade me a bit, but you fail to produce any reasonable arguments whatsoever. I really am having trouble believing you are serious. Your position isn't that hard to defend, there are some good arguments for it, you just can't seem to find any of them, or choose not to present them, I suppose.

"Possibly... but the liberal forces it's "help" onto others. And the "help" really turns out to be a hook on dependance."

!!! Oh my fucking lord! Are you serious? You're here, FORCING YOUR HELP ON US. We did not ask for it, you are here and have been asked by numerous other people, politely, to leave them alone. Yet you insist on berating them for their poor misguided ways and declare that you WILL help them whether they want it or not. Fuck off, man, you are so full of shit.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Which we now are on, it would seem.
[/B][/QUOTE]

We weren't debating that. I simply said that liberals like to restrict freedom, keeping themselves and other elitists inside the barriers with the rest on the outside.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]So? Nobody's stopping you from joining the army right now. Come on, hop to it, if you're so fucking eager.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Join the army? Why would I do that? I'm really not needed right now - in a full scale world war or if this got out of hand, I'de be in Iraq in a heartbeat... but it looks like they're controling it quite well as of now. I'm sure not every anti-war (pro-Saddam) person showed up for the rallies.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]In the US, it has had little effect outside of NY.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Anthrax, Waco, Oklahoma City...? It effects the New York economy which effects the stock exchange with effects the nation which effects the world.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Except Iraq poses no threat to us.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I've already stated how and why Iraq is a threat; won't sell the US oil, is resisting the occupation, funds terrorism, develops chem-bio weapons, has an alliance with OBL...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You can win out on the technicality of them being the same 'race', but they are a different ethnic group than us Americans.
[/B][/QUOTE]

How do you know my race, ethnicity, or even GENDER for that matter?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]What, is this where you come out and go "OMG I am arab! har har trixed u!"? Oh, how shocking, indeed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well only half, but I don't think it should play a role in my judgement. I'de be equally as harsh on African and Asian nations. The opinion of an Arab is as valuable as the opinion of an Eskimo.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B] You're the self-proclaimed great one that is here to show us the errors of our ways.
[/B][/QUOTE]

No where I've said I'm great. That totally contradictory to my whole belief system. I know liberals think that there are elites, but I am for equality.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]The one that claims to be capable of making decisions we are incapable of making.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I didn't say you were incapable, you just don't want to. Big difference.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You're here, FORCING YOUR HELP ON US.
[/B][/QUOTE]

It's not dependance. I will present my observations and you're free to choose them if you wish.

YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER MY ORIGINAL QUESTION!

What have I stated that is factually irrelevant?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ill Rich [/i]
[B]

I've already stated how and why Iraq is a threat; won't sell the US oil, is resisting the occupation, funds terrorism, develops chem-bio weapons, has an alliance with OBL...

[/B][/QUOTE]

OBL- wow, does he have an album now or something?
sounds like he should do a collaboration with ODB.
that would be 'dope'.

And anyone getting annoyed at Ill Rich, can simply take solace or amusement in never being able to take someone seriously when they have [b] HIP HOP [/b] in their sig... unless its a Henry Krinkle reference. which at the current point in time, im am doubting.

"We weren't debating that. I simply said that liberals like to restrict freedom, keeping themselves and other elitists inside the barriers with the rest on the outside."

Eh, no, that's not it. I believe what you originally said, exactly, was this: "No real barriers to control themselves." - in regards to what you define as a liberal. I then pointed out that you and your ilk are the ones advocating ignoring the UN - a barrier. You then said the UN is not a barrier, it's a restriction of freedom. Well, sorry, but that would be what we here in reality call [i]a barrier[/i], sir.

In regards to what you're saying here, though, that actually, sounds like YOU again. :eek:

You know, keeping themselves inside the barrier (ie: borders of America) and then laying waste to all the filth outside?

"Join the army? Why would I do that? I'm really not needed right now - in a full scale world war or if this got out of hand, I'de be in Iraq in a heartbeat... but it looks like they're controling it quite well as of now. I'm sure not every anti-war (pro-Saddam) person showed up for the rallies."

Oh please, let's smear the anti-war crowd by saying they are pro-Saddam. How pathetic. "I don't have a valid argument, so I'm going to resort to smear tactics! Ya! Go me!" Anyhow, sure you're needed in the army. I mean, someone with magnificent intellectual powers such as yourself would help them out so much! They need your type over there! Come on, get with it, no time to waste. They aren't doing very well, actually, it's all going to hell. They totally underestimated the Iraqis and are getting their asses kicked. Well, I mean, we're going to win, but it's going to be a lot different than we thought. It already is, actually. And you just may get your chance to join up. If this war spills over into Iran or Syria, as it very well may, or if we end up fighting NK - then I'll be eager to hear your reports from the front lines.

"Anthrax, Waco, Oklahoma City...? It effects the New York economy which effects the stock exchange with effects the nation which effects the world."

Yeah, but it doesn't destroy my freedom. That's what you said, you were claiming that terrorism has totally destroyed freedom in America.

"I've already stated how and why Iraq is a threat; won't sell the US oil, is resisting the occupation, funds terrorism, develops chem-bio weapons, has an alliance with OBL..."

An alliance with OBL? Oh my lord, you get dumber by the minute. I've already stated how and why Iraq is NOT a threat, yet you keep throwing out these same claims that I have already refuted time and again.

So what if they don't sell us oil? I dont' even know if that's true, but if it is, so what? Oh fuck, imagine that, they can do what they want with their oil because it's *GASP* THEIR FUCKING OIL. Resisting occupation, we went over that. Funds terrorism? Prove it. Right now. Do it. They give money to Palestinian families, wow, great, some are connected to terrorism, some aren't, so that doesn't matter. So what if they developed chem-bio weapons? We gave them to them to start out with. Just because they have them doesn't mean they're going to use them.

"How do you know my race, ethnicity, or even GENDER for that matter?"

I don't. I just know your an idiot, and that's more than enough.

"Well only half, but I don't think it should play a role in my judgement. I'de be equally as harsh on African and Asian nations. The opinion of an Arab is as valuable as the opinion of an Eskimo."

Well, my little call of racism was more towards most pro-War americans I've run into. I see you're a little different, you're not a racist, just a nationalist. That's not much better, though.

"No where I've said I'm great. That totally contradictory to my whole belief system. I know liberals think that there are elites, but I am for equality."

Equality? Oh, so bombing other nations will bring them up to our standards? Interesting. Oh yeah, nobody on earth matters except for Americans, I forgot. How silly of me. You've still implied that you think you are better than us by saying that you are here to show us how wrong we are and by declaring liberals to be the scum of the earth and by saying you are capable of making the tough decisions that we liberals could never make.

"I didn't say you were incapable, you just don't want to. Big difference."

Thanks for telling me what I think. Sounds like something a [i]liberal[/i] would do, huh? D=

"It's not dependance. I will present my observations and you're free to choose them if you wish."

You're still trying to force your ideas on us. Which is something you said only those filthly [i]liberals[/i] do.

"YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER MY ORIGINAL QUESTION!"

Oh ghee, that must be your uncanny sense of observation kicking in, huh? Really, I haven't? No crap! I never set out to, my first response was in regards to your definition of a liberal, and we've just gone from there. I'm sorry this is so hard for you to keep up with. I didn't answer it, because I'm not a liberal. So yeah. Neener neener.

*clap clap*

nicely done disx.

what is 'neener' though?

Oh, childish taunting, I guess.

ah right, i get it now. like when kids go
'neer neer ne neer ne' . yep.
got it. good. pack it in a box and ship it.

unfortunately ill, all of your "original questions" have been answered and then some. and the answers can all be foun in these 5 pages of this hilarious post. so take a brake, breathe, and go through [I]all[/I] of the posts, rereading each of them individually. disx has tore open all of your "reasons" and "statements". so give up already ok?

id also like to point out--- if no one else has--- nobody can take you seriously when you cant even spell the name of your thread properly.

'My Challange To The Liberals' , its 'Challenge' moron.

fuck protesting. i'm not so sure, but i don't think it's ever done too much good, protesting, except encourage more people to protest. i'm probably way way wrong. so I'm protesting protesting??
i'm not good at debates, but damn, people in this nation need to stop whining about something they can't stomach.
god forbid, if something terrorist-ish does happen here again, but i think alot of people would want freedom defended again.
i hate politics, so i am not so sure and don't care what liberalism is and all the other separations... all i know is, we need to stop being pussies, realize that we have armed forces and this is what they are built for.... war.... for us to go somewhere, do our thing, blow shit up, kill the bad guys, and get the fuck out.
i'd also like to say, i hope the american flag fad doesn't happen again. it was sweet, but buy them and sport them before the bad shit happens. the shit reminded me of some kind of band wagon sport fan. the streets were full of them. made me want to be an american flag/vandal terrorist. sheesh!!
okay, i'm done ranting. sorry.
go war, go!!! hahahaha

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Well, sorry, but that would be what we here in reality call [i]a barrier[/i], sir.
[/B][/QUOTE]

ONLY IF YOU'RE ON THE OUTSIDE.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Oh please, let's smear the anti-war crowd by saying they are pro-Saddam.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, they are. Without war, Saddam will keep his position. Now why would someone who does not like Saddam want him to keep his rule?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Yeah, but it doesn't destroy my freedom.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Tell me that if you're Saudi.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]An alliance with OBL?
[/B][/QUOTE]

OBL has already threatend terror on the US if it invaded. Alliance.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]So what if they don't sell us oil?
[/B][/QUOTE]

That hurts the US economy, which in turn is detrimental to American citizens.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Funds terrorism?
[/B][/QUOTE]

The Vice President of Iraq has already stated more car bombings will happen if the US does not pull out.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]I see you're a little different, you're not a racist, just a nationalist.
[/B][/QUOTE]

A nationalist I am not. I would be willing to be a citizen of any country if it could secure my freedom. The United States is doing a great job, which is why I am here, in the US. A nationalist will stick with his nation even if it is failing; Hitler, for example.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Oh yeah, nobody on earth matters except for Americans, I forgot.
[/B][/QUOTE]

It's all about survival. Don't build someone else a house when your family is standing in the rain.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You've still implied that you think you are better than us by saying that you are here to show us how wrong we are and by declaring liberals to be the scum of the earth and by saying you are capable of making the tough decisions that we liberals could never make.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Better? No. Can I show you how you're wrong? Yes, but it's your chioce to see it. Liberals are the scum of the Earth, but I wouldn't doom them to a repetitive cycle. It can be broken. ME making decisions that you don't want to make is not me being more important. The Objective is too complex for the roles to be quanticized.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You're still trying to force your ideas on us.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Of course not, you're free to read, comprehend, or choose them.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TwoPennyKenny [/i]
[B] all i know is, we need to stop being pussies, realize that we have armed forces and this is what they are built for.... war.... for us to go somewhere, do our thing, blow shit up, kill the bad guys, and get the fuck out.
[/B][/QUOTE]

A military is meant for defensive measures. Iraq poses no threat to the United States.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ill Rich [/i]
[B]
It's all about survival. Don't build someone else a house when your family is standing in the rain.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So I guess it is ok to spend $100+ billion while our economy is falling to shit, the education system sucks, and health care.... well we won't even go there.

why are you guys still arguing with him? i mean, really, why? are you trying to get him to change his opinion? a) it's not going to happen and that's exactly what he's trying to do to you.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]A military is meant for defensive measures. Iraq poses no threat to the United States. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm uneducated when it comes to politics and this war and all, but hasn't Iraq been "disarming" since the early 90's? Were they completely disarmed and neither a threat to the U.S. nor the U.S.'s allies when this war started? I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of someone with a grudge against our government packing chemical and biological weapons. Those weapons may or may not reach metropolitan areas in the states, but the U.S.'s soldiers stationed at various miliary bases are U.S. citizens just as much as you and certainly an closer target.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rents [/i]
[B]I'll be the first to admit that I'm uneducated when it comes to politics and this war and all, but hasn't Iraq been "disarming" since the early 90's? Were they completely disarmed and neither a threat to the U.S. nor the U.S.'s allies when this war started? I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of someone with a grudge against our government packing chemical and biological weapons. Those weapons may or may not reach metropolitan areas in the states, but the U.S.'s soldiers stationed at various miliary bases are U.S. citizens just as much as you and certainly an closer target. [/B][/QUOTE]

We have now invaded Iraq and still can't find proof that they have WMD's: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,926187,00.html[/url]

Also I read an article a few days ago saying that both the CIA and British Intelligence have said that Iraq poses no threat to the U.S. or its neighbors. I can't seem to find the article, but I will get back to you when I do.

as if suicide bombing wasn't a clear indication of that anyway. you think people use their bodies when they have nukes? me no theenk so...

You're right, there's no definite proof yet, but we don't exactly have control of Iraq yet. And then there was those 3000 (maybe an extra 0 there) chem suits with the antidote stuff they found at that hospital. You know what ever happened to that possible chemical weapons plant in Najaf or where ever? I heard that they came across it and then nothing else.
And as for suicide bombings, a nuke IS a suicide bomb when you're up against the world's top nuclear power. They wouldn't have used it yet. It's much more of a last minute effort, right as the Marine's are knocking on Saddam's door. Just makes military sense. They can take out more people if they use suicide bombs now and do the nuke later.
P.S. Thanks, DNT, for the sources.

yeah but the consequences of suicide bombing and the suicidal consequences of nuclear bombing are different concepts altogether. people only strap dynamite to their bodies when they have no other recourse. and not only is iraq resorting to suicide bombers, they're calling in suicide bombers from OTHER COUNTRIES. this whole thing just stinks to high heaven.

I don't see why there's all this hostility. It WAS a pretty simple question, and not a bad one. What the hell IS the end goal of anti-war protests, anti-war actions? Do they really have a clear political goal?

Honestly, I don't think they do. Perhaps a small group of organizers has an agenda they're trying to hook to the movement, but I still feel that protesting is essentially a vicarious emotional act that simply identifies you with other protesters. Warm fuzzies all around, great, and perhaps some superficial media attention and public awareness, but no real change.

Acts of civil disobedience are more effective; but without a larger coherent goal, still. Acts of terrorism are ultimately the most effective way to alter a sovereign state's policy, except for...ah yes...voting. If you still believe in it. I do.

Here's my answer to the original question (I don't know if I'm 'liberal' or not, I think man is responsible for society, and society only exists to support man, so, it should, and capitalism is not the answer to all life's problems, so, I guess I qualify): The protests work, the Bush administration collapses from the inside in a series of resignations as cities across the country are thrown into chaos as protests turn violent and police are overwhelmed. Strikes shut down the economy. Democrats call for change in leadership; Bush calls for national unity; nobody really comes through clearly. The anti-war movement probably flounders helplessly, with several very clear suggestions from a minority of activists going unheard as the government struggles to restore order. Foreign leaders express more dismay than approval as the 3rd infantry sits outside Baghdad and stares really hard at the Republican Guard.

In short, the violence necessary for the protests to work is not possible. Withdrawal is not an option. The question is moot.

Also, please don't defend the Iraqi government. Saddam Hussein is desperate to stay in power, and will do anything, anything, to accomplish that. He is just as much a snake as American propaganda makes him out to be, and he IS the government.

That said, he is a rational person, and the Bush administration (and the public) would do well to remember that. I make no apologies for the bumbling President of the USA; he's just as much a doofus as Iraqi propaganda makes him out to be.

As for WMD...if I was Iraq, I'd have moved them all back into the tunnels and palace compounds in Baghdad, maybe some in Mosul in the North, but not in the South...Hussein knows his regular army divisions are crap. If he wants to embarass the hell out of the USA, if he's smart, he'll destroy them all and then fight to the last in Baghdad. Using them won't win the war, so why keep them around and be called guilty after he inevitably is defeated? He could make himself into a great martyr for an angry Arab world.
Therein lies the miscalcuations of the Bush administration and also the problem; to act or not to act. I say, act. But we could have acted sooner, more strongly, with greater cultural sensitivity (it's not just a PC catchphrase) and with international support from our traditional allies, let alone the UN. It could have been a cleaner war. And yes, damn it, one war can be cleaner than another.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoNotTrip [/i]
[B]A military is meant for defensive measures. Iraq poses no threat to the United States. [/B][/QUOTE]
i think what we're doing is somewhat a defensive measure. for the future... you know... for the kids.
anyway, arguing about this sort of thing seems like a waste of time.
personally, and like alot of other people, i just want this to be over. soon.

"And then there was those 3000 (maybe an extra 0 there) chem suits with the antidote stuff they found at that hospital."

Well, the Iraqi government is telling its soldiers to be prepared for the US to use chemical weapons against them. Whether it's just propaganda or not, it definitely seems like those suits could have been in preparation for that.

Also, the effects of the DU weapons we use is so bad some of our soldiers are using chem suits not to be affected by it. Maybe that's what the Iraqis were trying to prepare themselves for. Who knows, hard to say, really.

"You know what ever happened to that possible chemical weapons plant in Najaf or where ever? I heard that they came across it and then nothing else."

Yeah, they found nothing. They keep screaming "OMG we found it!" because it gets the public riled up and a lot of people don't bother waiting around to see if these things are ever verified or not. It does the damage without even being true, it's one of the most effective propaganda tactics out there.

"And as for suicide bombings, a nuke IS a suicide bomb when you're up against the world's top nuclear power."

Which is exactly why Saddam Hussein would never, ever, use WMDs against us unless backed into a corner - like we have done to him now. I agree that people saying "omg he hasnt used them yet, he must not have them!" are a little early on their claims. If he was going to use them, he'd probably wait until we had Baghdad surrounded or actually went into the city. He may or may not have them, I don't know. Either way, he would have never used them against us or an ally if we hadn't invaded.

Like Misnomer said - he may be awful, but he is rational. He's not some religious fanatic, he's not looking to be a martyr. He's looking out for #1. (Sounds like someone else we all know... )

"ONLY IF YOU'RE ON THE OUTSIDE."

Nope. If I am in a house and I am looking at a wall, it's a barrier. I'm inside, but it's still a barrier. Just like the US is in the UN, but the UN was still trying to keep it out of Iraq. Now the UN was overcome, but it was still a barrier, you just knocked it down. Just like one could knock down a wall in a house to get through. Just like you claim is something liberals do - try to avoid/get rid of barriers. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hyyyyyyyyyyyyyypocrite. You're so full of shit, how can you bear the stench?

"Well, they are. Without war, Saddam will keep his position. Now why would someone who does not like Saddam want him to keep his rule?"

Because taking him out of his role is more dangerous than leaving him there and none of our business anyhow?

"Tell me that if you're Saudi."

As soon as I turn into one, I'll be sure to let you know.

"OBL has already threatend terror on the US if it invaded. Alliance."

With the Iraqi people, perhaps, but not with Saddam. As we went over this before, he is indirectly supporting Saddam, but he is not ALLIED with him - there is a massive difference.

"That hurts the US economy, which in turn is detrimental to American citizens."

Boo fucking hoo. It's their oil, they can do whatever they want with it. God forbid any country other than the US does what it wants with its own resources.

"The Vice President of Iraq has already stated more car bombings will happen if the US does not pull out."

That's not funding them; that's verballing supporting them - not financially. Not to mention it is in defense of an invasion - so it is totally justified.

"A nationalist I am not."

Bullshit.

"I would be willing to be a citizen of any country if it could secure my freedom. The United States is doing a great job, which is why I am here, in the US. A nationalist will stick with his nation even if it is failing; Hitler, for example."

Our nation IS failing, you're just too blind to see it. Every empire falls. It's the rule, sir.

"It's all about survival. Don't build someone else a house when your family is standing in the rain."

Oh really? Then why the fuck do we send $5B a year to Isreal? Why are we invading Iraq when we've got plenty of problems to fix at home? Huh? You reek of hypocrisy.

"Better? No. Can I show you how you're wrong? Yes, but it's your chioce to see it. Liberals are the scum of the Earth, but I wouldn't doom them to a repetitive cycle. It can be broken. ME making decisions that you don't want to make is not me being more important. The Objective is too complex for the roles to be quanticized."

*cringe* You're trying [i]so[/i] hard to sound intelligent. It's not working. At all. You are claiming that you are right and we are wrong - that is egotistical, that implies the belief that you are, in a sense, better than us - because you feel you are right, and we are wrong.

"Of course not, you're free to read, comprehend, or choose them."

You're still -trying- to force it on us. You continue to claim we are absolutely wrong and MUST be shown the error of our ways. You aren't physically forcing me to accept it, but how many liberals do you see actually physically forcing bums to take handouts? It's the same thing, you're doing your best to force your beliefs on us, which is exactly one of the things you hate about liberals. You are a total hypocrite, you have proven it numerous times. Thank you.

WHAT ABOUT TEH CHILLUNS!!!!!!!1

i guess i'll be the first to [I]have[/I] to state the obvious.
[QUOTE][B]I don't see why there's all this hostility. It WAS a pretty simple question, and not a bad one. What the hell IS the end goal of anti-war protests, anti-war actions? Do they really have a clear political goal?[/B][/QUOTE]
anti-war protest is pretty much self-explanitory, the purpose is to stop the war. thus the hyphenated word "anti-war".
[QUOTE]The protests work, the Bush administration collapses from the inside in a series of resignations as cities across the country are thrown into chaos as protests turn violent and police are overwhelmed.[/QUOTE]
why would the bush admin. collapse? why would there be violent protests if the war stops?
[QUOTE]Also, please don't defend the Iraqi government. Saddam Hussein is desperate to stay in power, and will do anything, anything, to accomplish that. He is just as much a snake as American propaganda makes him out to be, and he IS the government.[/QUOTE]
no one is defending saddam. rather we are against the decision that the president [I]that [B]we[/B] elected to represent our country[/I] made without (in my opinion) full consideration.

cant we all just get along and ignore ill rich

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Misnomer [/i]
[B]The protests work, the Bush administration collapses from the inside in a series of resignations as cities across the country are thrown into chaos as protests turn violent and police are overwhelmed. Strikes shut down the economy. Democrats call for change in leadership; Bush calls for national unity; nobody really comes through clearly. The anti-war movement probably flounders helplessly, with several very clear suggestions from a minority of activists going unheard as the government struggles to restore order. Foreign leaders express more dismay than approval as the 3rd infantry sits outside Baghdad and stares really hard at the Republican Guard. [/B][/QUOTE]

Intresting outlook, but what's instore for Iraq and more importantly Saddam Hussein?

[QUOTE]cant we all just get along and ignore ill rich[/QUOTE]

amen

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]If I am in a house and I am looking at a wall, it's a barrier.[/B][/QUOTE]

A barrier of what? Unless you want to get outside, it's not a barrier.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Because taking him out of his role is more dangerous than leaving him there and none of our business anyhow?[/B][/QUOTE]

It's more dangerous!!!??!!! Was it more dangerous when Hitler was being taken out or when he was in power? NONE OF OUR BUSINESS? Iraq is an enemey of the US.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]It's their oil, they can do whatever they want with it.[/B][/QUOTE]

It's the US's missiles. They can drop them where they want.

The US NEEDS that oil to operate. Know when it wont be "their" oil? When the US seizes it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]As soon as I turn into one, I'll be sure to let you know.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That has nothing to do with anything. Tell the Saudi that terrorism is not a restriction on his freedom... while he's being strip searched at the airport.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]That's not funding them; that's verballing supporting them - not financially. Not to mention it is in defense of an invasion - so it is totally justified.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Of course the government is funding the bombings. It's justified, eh? Well I guess now that the US has been attacked by cars, they've got free reign to shoot any vehicle?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Every empire falls.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Empires that fail to protect themselves fall, we've learned this from Ancient Africa. If America continutes to eliminates threats before they become too big to handle, it will last forever.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You are claiming that you are right and we are wrong - that is egotistical, that implies the belief that you are, in a sense, better than us - because you feel you are right, and we are wrong.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Right does not equal better, and wrong does not equal worse. That is a liberal view.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You continue to claim we are absolutely wrong and MUST be shown the error of our ways.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I do show you the error of your ways, but The Objective will continue weather or not you choose to follow.

Okay, trypdwyre, but the point is, what larger goal does the anti-war movement have? If it stops the war, WHAT NEXT? One solution to terrorism has been proposed by Bush; where's the alternative proposal? Saying Stop The War is one thing, saying Stop The War and place Iraq under direct UN control (the so-called Mirage Plan (or something?) that France and Germany proposed) is another. What I claim is that the anti-war movement has no coherent goal beyond stopping the war, and seeing as how it is completely, totally unable to do that, and thus needs to look longer-term.

The only thing that would stop the war is something I don't want to happen; a nuclear terrorist strike, the unlikely victory of the Republican Guard, or a very deadly and very successful biological attack that spreads plague throughout the middle east. None of these are desirable options. In fact, I don't even think halting the troops where they are and pulling out is a desirable option, even if the UN administered a cease-fire. I know 'rallying around the flag' seems defeatist, if you're against the war (beforehand, I was) but I really and truly believe that a victory will grant us a chance to begin to repair the middle east, assuming we don't abandon Iraq like we sort of have Afghanistan (did you know, they 'forgot' to put afghanistan aid in the budget, and congress had to go put it in themselves?)

What IS an option is holding the administration accountable for the series of poor judgments they've made up to and during the war. I don't forgive Bush for being a bad president just because we're at war, but I'm not willing to sacrifice our soldiers or our credibility to placate France or Germany, or even the Arab League. Yet we shouldn't be in the position of fighting a war without UN support; I believe a better diplomat could have built a clearer case and gained widespread support.

We don't need an anti-war movement; we need a reform movement. They can coexist, but reform is more important now.

"A barrier of what? Unless you want to get outside, it's not a barrier."

Just like if you want to invade Iraq, the UN is a barrier. We got past it, but you can get past the wall in a house, too. Barriers aren't invincible things you can't surpass, they are just obstacles, which is exactly what the UN was to our push for war. I really can't believe you're debating the definition of barrier. This is just absurd, you're a god damn idiot, you know that?

"It's more dangerous!!!??!!! Was it more dangerous when Hitler was being taken out or when he was in power? NONE OF OUR BUSINESS? Iraq is an enemey of the US."

Oh my god. Hitler was in control of THE MOST POWERFUL ARMY IN THE WORLD. Saddam Hussein is controling an army that is A FIFTH of what it was at 12 years ago and we kicked his ass then without any problem. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE YOU TWIT. Yeah, it's none of our business if a foreign country wants to defend itself.

"It's the US's missiles. They can drop them where they want."

Except that violates international law.

"The US NEEDS that oil to operate. Know when it wont be "their" oil? When the US seizes it."

That's called stealing.

"That has nothing to do with anything. Tell the Saudi that terrorism is not a restriction on his freedom... while he's being strip searched at the airport."

That has nothing to do with anything, either. We were talking about terrorism IN AMERICA. Please, try to stay on topic, it's really not that difficult.

"Of course the government is funding the bombings. It's justified, eh? Well I guess now that the US has been attacked by cars, they've got free reign to shoot any vehicle?"

No, we're the invaders so they are justified in defending in anyway they can. Just like we used every tactic we could when we fought the British in the American Revolution.

"Empires that fail to protect themselves fall, we've learned this from Ancient Africa. If America continutes to eliminates threats before they become too big to handle, it will last forever."

Keep dreaming.

"Right does not equal better, and wrong does not equal worse. That is a liberal view."

Oh my god.. It just never stops with you, does it?

"I do show you the error of your ways, but The Objective will continue weather or not you choose to follow."

The Objective? Haha, fucking christ. I've said it before, I'll say it again - get the fuck off yourself.

You can't be serious. There just isn't any way. You are fucking retarded. If you are serious. Wow. PLEASE kill yourself. You are a fucking tit. Good lord... I don't even know what to say. Your stupidity increases exponentially every post. It's fucking spectacular. Really. Now squeeze that trigger, yo.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Just like if you want to invade Iraq, the UN is a barrier.
[/B][/QUOTE]

It's an obsticle, not a barrier. A barrier would be, say, accelerating at a faster speed than light.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Hitler was in control of THE MOST POWERFUL ARMY IN THE WORLD.
[/B][/QUOTE]

How was he wiped out so easily? The US pre-emptively struck Germany, after all, they didn't attack the US first.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Except that violates international law.
[/B][/QUOTE]

So put out a UN resolution on them. That'll work!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]That's called stealing.
[/B][/QUOTE]

How do you stop stealing? Defence. Only the Iraqis cant mount any. If you don't like it feel free to wage war on the American army.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]We were talking about terrorism IN AMERICA.
[/B][/QUOTE]

You admited that it did limit freedom in America.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]No, we're the invaders so they are justified in defending in anyway they can.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I didn't say it wasn't justified. The nation of Iraq's duty is to protect its people any way possible. However, that does not help. Just ask the women and children who were shot up.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Keep dreaming.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Really, cite me an example. EVERY NATION IN HISTORY HAD ITS DOWNFALL AS A DIRECT RESULT OF A WAR.

"It's an obsticle, not a barrier. A barrier would be, say, accelerating at a faster speed than light."

Oh, you twat. A barrier is not impassable. A barrier IS an obstacle.

"How was he wiped out so easily? The US pre-emptively struck Germany, after all, they didn't attack the US first."

Because Saddam was forced to fight out in the open desert, where our technology was allowed to annihilate his forces. Actually, Germany declared war on us after we declared war on Japan for attacking us.

"So put out a UN resolution on them. That'll work!"

See, the US is supposed to be the 'good guy'. If you think international law is pointless, then you should be comfortable with people comparing the US to Germany of the 1930s.

"How do you stop stealing? Defence. Only the Iraqis cant mount any. If you don't like it feel free to wage war on the American army."

Actually, they're doing a damn good job of it, considering the odds. Anyhow, that's what international law is for. All you're doing here is giving the world a reason to do what we've done to Iraq.. right back to us.

"You admited that it did limit freedom in America."

To a degree - which is not what you were claiming. You were saying it totally prohibits it, which I still do not agree with.

"I didn't say it wasn't justified. The nation of Iraq's duty is to protect its people any way possible. However, that does not help. Just ask the women and children who were shot up."

You've admitted that we have the right to invade whoever we want, ignore all international laws and steal whatever we please from whomever we please. So why the hell would the Iraqi people want us to 'liberate' them? With your line of thought, after said liberation we should simply steal all the oil & any other valuables that may be there and get out. So why not defend in every way possible?

"Really, cite me an example. EVERY NATION IN HISTORY HAD ITS DOWNFALL AS A DIRECT RESULT OF A WAR."

USSR.

You are nothing more than an ultra self-centered, egotistical, nationalistic advocate of the "might makes right" philosophy. Dinosaurs such as yourself have no place in the civilized world. You'd think literature such as the Arthurian tales would clarify that said philosophy doesn't work. Even then, just look at history - [i]every[/i] expansive, oppressive regime that has ever existed has been brought down somehow or another. I'd rather not walk down that path, but apparently blind fellows such as yourself have no problem with it. Why is it so hard for people to see that selfishness only gets you so far? Sure, in the business world it usually works out pretty damn well, but on a global level, it just brings about your own demise.

That's why communism was so trendy for awhile and still is in some places. People realize that it is [i]necessary[/i] to work together and get over our greed and differing nationalities/ethnicities and such.

One big rock is all it's going to take. One big rock and everything here is gone. It's rather vital, not personally, but for the continuation of our species, that we expand to other planets and solar systems. Now maybe you don't find that important, but really, it's the most important (natural) thing you can possibly strive for. All this petty bickering over resources, egos and borders is completely pointless.

I'm done with you, at least in this thread. As I said before, you're just a self-centered little prick. What was it you called yourself? Conservative Humanist? You are sadly deluded.

A little quote here. Now, I don't have anything against conservatives in general, and I don't think this quote applies to them all, but it most certainly applies to you, sir.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
- John Kenneth Galbraith

>One big rock is all it's going to take. One big rock and everything here is gone. It's rather vital, not personally, but for the continuation of our species, that we expand to other planets and solar systems. Now maybe you don't find that important, but really, it's the most important (natural) thing you can possibly strive for. All this petty bickering over resources, egos and borders is completely pointless.<

disx, you've just become my forum-person of the year...colonization of space is the most important 'realist' concern there is, but institutionalized greed keeps it from getting the priority it needs. You'd think we could recognize the legitimate sort of 'greed' that keeping the species going represents, and that we all win...

have we hijacked this thread yet? eeexcellent, smithers...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Oh, you twat. A barrier is not impassable. A barrier IS an obstacle.
[/B][/QUOTE]

A barrier keeps you from doing something, thus it IS impassable.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Actually, Germany declared war on us after we declared war on Japan for attacking us.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The Middle East has declared a Holy War on the United States YEARS AGO!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B] If you think international law is pointless, then you should be comfortable with people comparing the US to Germany of the 1930s.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Didn't Germany of the 1930's PROVE international law is pointless? People understand violence. The only way to stop someone who disobeys international law (Saddam) is to use force. The ONLY way!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Actually, they're doing a damn good job of it, considering the odds.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The Iraqi's have 30 prisoners of war. The United States have 30,000. The Iraqi's have killed 35 soldiers. The Allies have killed over 6,000, PLUS about 700 civilians - not to mention the damage to their buildings! Brutal!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]All you're doing here is giving the world a reason to do what we've done to Iraq.. right back to us.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm beginning to think that's what the US needs. A nuke in Times Square or LA will shut up alot of people. Either way, the US gets attacked by a nuke, say bye-bye to both the Middle East and Africa.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]You've admitted that we have the right to invade whoever we want, ignore all international laws and steal whatever we please from whomever we please.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Correction, to whomever we're capable of. If someone wants to enforce international law, feel free to launch a military campaign on the United States. Go ahead. Try.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]With your line of thought, after said liberation we should simply steal all the oil & any other valuables that may be there and get out.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The Iraqis could avoid the pilaging of their country if they would simply agree to sell the oil. It's a win-win for both. The United States gets oil, and the Iraqis get money... lots of it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]USSR.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Cold War.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]Even then, just look at history - every expansive, oppressive regime that has ever existed has been brought down somehow or another.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed, they have always failed to protect themselves. However, the United States, China, and Great Britian look to be around forever if they keep up what they're doing. Even though they may have dissapeared, Egypt has been around for a long time.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]One big rock and everything here is gone.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Which is why the United States has a space plan. Destroying asteriods may be crucial.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]It's rather vital, not personally, but for the continuation of our species, that we expand to other planets and solar systems.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Possibly, but I don't think that's nessesary, not to mention unlikely.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by disx [/i]
[B]"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
[/B][/QUOTE]

LIBERALS TALKING ON MORALS? I'de say liberals are the selfish ones. Fact is, not only am I conservative - but a realist. EVERY SINGLE PERSON CANNOT REMAIN HUMAN FOREVER. They revert back into animal form. When opportunity is there to advance, the animal will jump at it. Put survival above all else. Do not hesitate to kill if you're threatened.

oh, christ in a bucket. here we go again.

[QUOTE]Do not hesitate to kill if you're threatened[/QUOTE]
wish i knew that earlier on today, i'd be a few problems shorter.
be rational ill.

LOL i definitely woulda bumped off that guy in traffic today, in the green car, that tried to ride the "wake" of an ambulance and get past everyone. what kind of ghoulish, soulless asshole would use a fucking ambulance to get ahead in traffic? and then when i cut him off so he couldn't use this method to get past me, he tailgated me for like a mile in bumper to bumper traffic. he definitely would've been the first to go today.